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Old 2004-05-13, 21:20   Link #81
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
As for the cooling sytems goes. The chips Im looking at Ive been doing quite a bit of research on them and both the Intel's and the 64 bit AMD's run pretty hot. Especially overclocked AMD's. Now dont get me wrong fans do do a good job but if i do get an AMD im going to get another cooling system for it. Theres just no good reason why not to *other than money*. I dont want to take the chances of frying my precious 250+ dollar processor. It would be cool to subzero the biatch w/ a peltier system backed up by a water cooler just to see what those AMDs can do though :P
If you're serious about milking every extra hertz of power out of that CPU and really intend to run it at subzero temperatues, a peltier based watter cooler will never work that well.

If you're serious and I do mean serious, about achieving subzero CPU temperatures then you'll need an Asetek Xtreme Edition Vapochill Cooling System. The cooling setup employed can easily achieve CPU tempuratures below -20C. Such proformance comes at a price, US$860 for the system linked to above and US$660 for the cooling system less the case.
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Old 2004-05-13, 21:40   Link #82
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
If you're serious about milking every extra hertz of power out of that CPU and really intend to run it at subzero temperatues, a peltier based watter cooler will never work that well.

If you're serious and I do mean serious, about achieving subzero CPU temperatures then you'll need an Asetek Xtreme Edition Vapochill Cooling System. The cooling setup employed can easily achieve CPU tempuratures below -20C. Such proformance comes at a price, US$860 for the system linked to above and US$660 for the cooling system less the case.
O__O I was kidding about the subzero temps they... holy shit..... -20C? Ya... lol i dont need that.... I just want mine to be around 10C below ambeint.
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Old 2004-05-14, 00:33   Link #83
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
O__O I was kidding about the subzero temps they... holy shit..... -20C? Ya... lol i dont need that.... I just want mine to be around 10C below ambeint.
Vapor Unit's can still go colder...

The VapoChill LightSpeed can lower CPU temperatures to the -50C range. While the Vapochill Case Cooler can, literally, turn your case into a small beer fridge with it's ability to remove upto 750Watts of heat from a case.

As for AMD64s, I wouldn't mind a plain AMD64 but I would never buy an AMD64-51 FX. Those things cost CAD$1,200 retail around here and that's far too great a cost for a CPU as far as I'm concerned. >.>;

Last edited by Mr_Paper; 2004-05-14 at 12:25.
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Old 2004-05-14, 14:32   Link #84
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
Vapor Unit's can still go colder...

The VapoChill LightSpeed can lower CPU temperatures to the -50C range. While the Vapochill Case Cooler can, literally, turn your case into a small beer fridge with it's ability to remove upto 750Watts of heat from a case.
if you really want cold, LN2 it. that gets... what? -250C?

and LN2 is actually not that expensive. cheaper than bottled water anyway

something like $0.20 per liter if you get it from a university, or some other mass purchacer. (from non-profit organization)

okay- back to being serious.

by simply chilling the water (by putting ice packs in the resovoir, or buying a water fountain cooler, running it through a refrigerator... ... ... .. something like that... you can greatly increase the cooling efficiency... ... room temperature water doesnt cool all the well :P
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Old 2004-05-16, 01:31   Link #85
SiL Eighty
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I just bought my video card last night. I picked up an ATI RADEON 9800 Pro 128mb for $180 *was on sale for $139 but since I wasnt able to get the part myself I had my friend get it for me and he charged me a handling fee >__<* Fry's was originally selling this thing for $250 so ya i got a good deal ^__^

Ive only really been looking at mobo's and processors so here's what ive narrowed it down to.

AMD
- AMD Opteron 2.2Ghz -64 bit-940 pin-
$405 @newegg
- ASUS SK8V mobo *where to find though? Newegg does not carry ;__;
Dont know price lil help?

INTEL
- INTEL P4 3.4Ghz -478 pin-Northwood core-
$415 @newegg
-ABIT IC7-G mobo
$137 @newegg

Also read that my vid card doesnt support any future 64bit games so that may play a major factor in my final decision since i already have the vid card.
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Old 2004-05-17, 11:14   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
I just bought my video card last night. I picked up an ATI RADEON 9800 Pro 128mb for $180 *was on sale for $139 but since I wasnt able to get the part myself I had my friend get it for me and he charged me a handling fee >__<* Fry's was originally selling this thing for $250 so ya i got a good deal ^__^

Ive only really been looking at mobo's and processors so here's what ive narrowed it down to.

AMD
- AMD Opteron 2.2Ghz -64 bit-940 pin-
$405 @newegg
- ASUS SK8V mobo *where to find though? Newegg does not carry ;__;
Dont know price lil help?

INTEL
- INTEL P4 3.4Ghz -478 pin-Northwood core-
$415 @newegg
-ABIT IC7-G mobo
$137 @newegg

Also read that my vid card doesnt support any future 64bit games so that may play a major factor in my final decision since i already have the vid card.
I would go for Intel because i hate Athlon's new marketing scheme. they are going to phase out old 64 bit chips, and stop making them when new 64's come out. so if your old '64 breaks, then you have to get a whole new mobo/processor (unless you break it soon after you buy it, or your mobo is compatible with the new one you get)

>< your friend charged your 40$ to pick the damn thing up for you??? quite steep

Quote:
As for AMD64s, I wouldn't mind a plain AMD64 but I would never buy an AMD64-51 FX. Those things cost CAD$1,200 retail around here and that's far too great a cost for a CPU as far as I'm concerned. >.>;
true, but i would trust a FX more so than a P4EE, from what i hear, it is a base on a a Xenon core
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Old 2004-05-17, 20:45   Link #87
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
I would go for Intel because i hate Athlon's new marketing scheme. they are going to phase out old 64 bit chips, and stop making them when new 64's come out. so if your old '64 breaks, then you have to get a whole new mobo/processor (unless you break it soon after you buy it, or your mobo is compatible with the new one you get)

>< your friend charged your 40$ to pick the damn thing up for you??? quite steep

true, but i would trust a FX more so than a P4EE, from what i hear, it is a base on a a Xenon core
The new 64bits that are coming out are not compatible w/ current 64bit mobo's. They are going from 940 pin *old* to 939 pin *new*

I think I am just gunna go w/ the p4 setup becuase of thee above. AMD is changing stuff and i dont feel like waiting for them to get it right *even though they have kick ass cpus* Ill post all the parts Im looking at getting soon. *still doing research, but i get paid this week so imma be buying parts by the weekend*

Cooling~
I was thinking of just using just using this Zalman unit, adding heat sinks for the chip set, and have plenty of fans w/ a fan control module.
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Old 2004-05-17, 21:09   Link #88
Roots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Cooling~
I was thinking of just using just using this Zalman unit, adding heat sinks for the chip set, and have plenty of fans w/ a fan control module.
Yay that's my cooling unit! Its very good at keeping things too and so quiet you can't hear it unless you stick your ear inside the case The only drawback is that because of all that copper it is really heavy and because of that the manufacturer recommends detaching the unit when you plan on transporting your case. Not a problem for someone like me, but if you plan on going to a lot of LAN parties, better bring your screwdriver

If you don't like that idea, you can go with the CuAl (Copper-Aluminum) model (CNPS7000-CuAl I believe its called). From what I remember, its just as quiet but it doesn't cool as well. But since it uses an aluminum compound instead of copper, it is less dense (weighs less) and you won't have to worry about detaching it everytime you move your case around. The choice my friend, is yours
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Old 2004-05-18, 11:35   Link #89
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roots
Yay that's my cooling unit! Its very good at keeping things too and so quiet you can't hear it unless you stick your ear inside the case The only drawback is that because of all that copper it is really heavy and because of that the manufacturer recommends detaching the unit when you plan on transporting your case. Not a problem for someone like me, but if you plan on going to a lot of LAN parties, better bring your screwdriver

If you don't like that idea, you can go with the CuAl (Copper-Aluminum) model (CNPS7000-CuAl I believe its called). From what I remember, its just as quiet but it doesn't cool as well. But since it uses an aluminum compound instead of copper, it is less dense (weighs less) and you won't have to worry about detaching it everytime you move your case around. The choice my friend, is yours
Copper all the way ^_^. Weight is an issue with it eh, and it mounts directly to the mobo? Do the holes that it mounts to go straight thru the mobo, as in theres nothing behind it. If its like that I can just get some plastic/rubber spacers and mount it up to the the case so that all the weight isnt on the mobo.
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Old 2004-05-18, 21:46   Link #90
durrem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Copper all the way ^_^. Weight is an issue with it eh, and it mounts directly to the mobo? Do the holes that it mounts to go straight thru the mobo, as in theres nothing behind it. If its like that I can just get some plastic/rubber spacers and mount it up to the the case so that all the weight isnt on the mobo.
I have a Alpha PAL8942 in my system. It doesn't use the Intel retaining bracket, but instead uses four nut/bolt type attachments that mount in the four holes from the Intel retaining bracket.

edit: no direct linking of pictures from Alpha's site...
http://www.micforg.co.jp/en/c_pal8942e.html

It looks like that Zalman cooler mounts onto the Intel bracket. The reason they probably tell you to take it off when you move the computer is because this bracket is connected to the motherboard by four little plastic clips which could snap off with heavy weight.

Spoiler for picture Zalman:


I still recommend the Thermalright SP94 as the best cooler out there now imo.
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Old 2004-05-18, 22:15   Link #91
Roots
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Copper all the way ^_^. Weight is an issue with it eh, and it mounts directly to the mobo? Do the holes that it mounts to go straight thru the mobo, as in theres nothing behind it. If its like that I can just get some plastic/rubber spacers and mount it up to the the case so that all the weight isnt on the mobo.
Yeah it mounts directly to the mobo. It is a heavy mofo too, you'll see when you pick it up I'm going to transport my computer from Phoenix to Austin soon, so I'm wondering if I should take the risk and go ahead and leave the heat sink on. It took me literally 15 minutes to get it on there, at first I thought that it just wasn't going to fit at all
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Old 2004-05-19, 12:31   Link #92
Mr_Paper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roots
Yeah it mounts directly to the mobo. It is a heavy mofo too, you'll see when you pick it up I'm going to transport my computer from Phoenix to Austin soon, so I'm wondering if I should take the risk and go ahead and leave the heat sink on. It took me literally 15 minutes to get it on there, at first I thought that it just wasn't going to fit at all
If you transport your PC on it's side with the heatsink pointing up you should be fine but removing it for transport is always the best option. ^^;
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Old 2004-05-19, 12:33   Link #93
Roots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
If you transport your PC on it's side with the heatsink pointing up you should be fine. ^^;
True, but if you ship it FedEx or if you bring it on the airline, do you really think that those package/luggage handlers pay attention to the "This Side Up" on the box?
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Old 2004-05-19, 12:35   Link #94
Mr_Paper
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Originally Posted by Roots
True, but if you ship it FedEx or if you bring it on the airline, do you really think that those package/luggage handlers pay attention to the "This Side Up" on the box?
I thought you'd be driving.

Definitely remove it if your shipping the thing.
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Old 2004-05-19, 16:03   Link #95
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roots
True, but if you ship it FedEx or if you bring it on the airline, do you really think that those package/luggage handlers pay attention to the "This Side Up" on the box?
Ya lol its getting removed when I go to south carolina next year. Im a parts driver and I know how people handle packages

Anyways ya Imma go with the Pentium and the Abit board. Does anyone know anygood heatsinks for this chip set on the Abit board? Chip set is - Intel 875P + ICH5R. The mobo is the same one posted below.

Also the mobo says "Serial ATA" does that mean I have to get SATA HD's or can I still use IDE HD's?
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Old 2004-05-19, 16:41   Link #96
Mr_Paper
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Heh. For some time now I've been looking at getting a new PC, especially after I fried my main one last summer. >.>;

I've been looking at prices, especially after setting myself a spending cap of $2,200 on the PC as a whole, and have come up with the following options as the ones best suited for my personal use. Of course there are things that aren't listed that go without saying. Such as my changing the CPU heatsink and cooler, dust vents on all intake fans, modding all case vests for improved airflow, etc. Feel free to pillage ideas from what I've listed.

The Intel P4 options:

Option 1:
(dual monitor option)

Processor: Intel Pentium 4 3.00E GHz 800FSB w/ 1MB Cache, Hyper-Threading [$349.95]
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Ceramique Premium High-Density Thermal Compund, 2.5g [$8.49]
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000-G w/ DualDDR400, Audio, Gigabit Lan, SATA [$139.95]
Memory: Kingston 512MB PC3200 DDR CAS 3 [$154.95] x 2
Case: Antec Sonata w/ TruePower 380W [$144.95]
Monitoring Device: Cooler Master Aerogate II Thermal Controller (Black) [$64.95]
Case Fan: Panaflo 120mm Ultra Quiet Fan, Medium Flow [$24.99]
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB Caviar 7200rpm Serial ATA 8MB Cache [$149.95]
Optical Drive: LiteOn 8x DVD+/-RW Combo Drive, Black (OEM) w/ Software [$134.95]
Video Card: Matrox Millennium P650 64MB DDR OEM w/ DualHead-HF [$229.95]
Monitor: Viewsonic E70FB (Pure Flat CRT, 17in, Black) [$209.95] x 2
Keyboard: Elite Slim Muitimedia Keyboard XP (Black) [$14.95]
Mouse: OEM PS/2 Wheel Mouse (Black) [$24.99]
Total: $2,159.12

Option 2:

Processor: Intel Pentium 4 3.00E GHz 800FSB w/ 1MB Cache, Hyper-Threading [$349.95]
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver Ceramique Premium High-Density Thermal Compund, 2.5g [$8.49]
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000-G w/ DualDDR400, Audio, Gigabit Lan, SATA [$139.95]
Memory: Kingston 512MB PC3200 DDR CAS 3 [$154.95]
Case: Antec Sonata w/ TruePower 380W [$144.95]
Monitoring Device: Cooler Master Aerogate II Thermal Controller (Black) [$64.95]
Case Fan: Panaflo 120mm Ultra Quiet Fan, Medium Flow [$24.99]
Hard Drive: Western Digital 120GB Caviar 7200rpm Serial ATA 8MB Cache [$149.95]
Optical Drive: LiteOn 8x DVD+/-RW Combo Drive, Black (OEM) w/ Software [$134.95]
Video Card: Sapphire Atlantis Radeon 9800XT 256MB w/ TV-Out, DVI (Retail) [$629.95]
Monitor: Viewsonic E70FB (Pure Flat CRT, 17in, Black) [$209.95]
Keyboard: Elite Slim Muitimedia Keyboard XP (Black) [$14.95]
Mouse: OEM PS/2 Wheel Mouse (Black) [$24.99]
Total: $2,196.68

The AMD64 option:

-Same as the Intel P4 option 2, except...
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (2GHz) w/ 1MB Cache (Retail Box) [$399.95]
Motherboard: MSI K8T Neo-FSR w/ Audio, Gigabyte Lan, SATA RAID [$159.95]
Total: $2,271.58
The basics of each system are pretty much the same. Once again the only variations are the motherboard, CPU, RAM and number of monitors. The systems are, in my opinion, a good balance between raw power, affordability and upgradability. One of those certain upgrades would be an AeroCool DP-102, modded to hold 92mm or 120mm fans (+70cfm) instead of the low quality 80mm (~30cfm) ones it comes with. This was decided on mainly because it's designed to dissapate more heat than my CPU choices can generate. All prices are in Canadian and all parts are priced to be purchased at retail prices (the place I buy from offers cash discounts =P). The costs of the systems run between $1,450 and $1,550 American, nothing extravagent.

Last edited by Mr_Paper; 2004-05-19 at 17:15. Reason: Damned formatting!
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Old 2004-05-19, 17:54   Link #97
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
Also the mobo says "Serial ATA" does that mean I have to get SATA HD's or can I still use IDE HD's?
you can use both.

you can have a maximum of 4 IDE hard drives (with no other optical drives)

or do a 2-2 split, or run all of your HDs off of a Raid array.

I personally have 3 120 gig hard drives, and one CDRW drive.
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Old 2004-05-19, 18:44   Link #98
Roots
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Paper
I thought you'd be driving.

Definitely remove it if your shipping the thing.

Yeah, it would be nice if my car came back from the graveyard I gotta buy a new one for next year, but I don't feel like buying a new car and then driving it all that way. I'll just buy a car in Austin

I will be sure to remove it!
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Old 2004-05-19, 20:56   Link #99
SiL Eighty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
you can use both.

you can have a maximum of 4 IDE hard drives (with no other optical drives)

or do a 2-2 split, or run all of your HDs off of a Raid array.

I personally have 3 120 gig hard drives, and one CDRW drive.
I dont need that much space im pretty good about keeping my HD's clean.Nice to know you have room to expand though. Running a 20 gig now, I dl alot and I still have 6gigs left!!! lol

Ok Soo I can run 4 things with the IDE setup *3 HDs and a DVD/CDRW* or link them up using a Raid array *SATA HD's right?* and run X amount of drives?
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Old 2004-05-20, 00:16   Link #100
hobobaggins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiL Eighty
I dont need that much space im pretty good about keeping my HD's clean.Nice to know you have room to expand though. Running a 20 gig now, I dl alot and I still have 6gigs left!!! lol

Ok Soo I can run 4 things with the IDE setup *3 HDs and a DVD/CDRW* or link them up using a Raid array *SATA HD's right?* and run X amount of drives?
yeah. i think you got it.

i cant imagine only having 20 gigs of space. that is 1/16th my storage!

(only using 2 hard drives really...)

mm~

IF you get an exotic cooling rig, be sure to get some pics up, and tell us how hard/easy it was, and anything special.
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