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Old 2004-05-11, 17:22   Link #1
Uchiha_genesis
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Are Itachi's strength and abilities up to Hokage Level?

Just out of curiosity I was wondering what everyone thinks, are Itachi's abilities and strenght up to hokage level? Because if Orochimaru was to be selected to be the fourth and Itachi is clearly stronger than Orochimaru wouldn't that make him a hokage level shinobi.
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:25   Link #2
MidoriShinobi
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In short, yes. Orochimaru is supposedly around the same level as Tsunade (probably weaker, I think), and he is scared of Itachi. So you can gather than he is as strong as a hokage. Although I bet if all the Hokage's got together they could take him.. anyways, he will never be hokage, because he's a poohead.
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:33   Link #3
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LOL a poohead

Right now Itachi is the strongest nija we know.
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:40   Link #4
sarcasteak
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The term "Hokage Level" depends on how you interpret the requirement to become a "Kage." If you want to say how well Itachi fares 1v1 against any of the current Leaf (sans the Sannin), he then probably meet the "strongest of the village" critera and can automatically be called "Hokage Level." But if you are comparing him to the past Hokages, then no, I don't think Itachi is at their level yet. In fact, I think Oro is more at the Hokage Level than Itachi. Let's see...Oro is very hit-resistant, very experienced, has a huge amount of chakra, an arsenal of jutsu with a bunch of deadly forbidden ones that probably can't be copied, and insanely powerful summon jutsu (Manda or past Hokages). Itachi so far shows his overall ability is above the average Konoha jounin-level. He has an arsenal of jutsu (assuming he abused his Sharingan as much as Kakashi did) and Mangekyo Sharingan so he can use normal Sharingan functions as long as he wants unlike Kakashi as well abilities specific to Mangekyo Sharingan like Tsukiyomi. As of now, I believe the primary reason Oro fears Itachi is that he can't counter the Mangekyo Sharingan. That's it. In every other aspect, Oro wins by a wide margin, but because he can't get past Itachi's specialty, he is weaker.
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:47   Link #5
Uchiha_genesis
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Yeah true, comparing him with previous hokages he is weaker. But I'm interested in finding out the other members of Akatsuki as well.
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:50   Link #6
itachistyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
The term "Hokage Level" depends on how you interpret the requirement to become a "Kage." If you want to say how well Itachi fares 1v1 against any of the current Leaf (sans the Sannin), he then probably meet the "strongest of the village" critera and can automatically be called "Hokage Level." But if you are comparing him to the past Hokages, then no, I don't think Itachi is at their level yet. In fact, I think Oro is more at the Hokage Level than Itachi. Let's see...Oro is very hit-resistant, very experienced, has a huge amount of chakra, an arsenal of jutsu with a bunch of deadly forbidden ones that probably can't be copied, and insanely powerful summon jutsu (Manda or past Hokages). Itachi so far shows his overall ability is above the average Konoha jounin-level. He has an arsenal of jutsu (assuming he abused his Sharingan as much as Kakashi did) and Mangekyo Sharingan so he can use normal Sharingan functions as long as he wants unlike Kakashi as well abilities specific to Mangekyo Sharingan like Tsukiyomi. As of now, I believe the primary reason Oro fears Itachi is that he can't counter the Mangekyo Sharingan. That's it. In every other aspect, Oro wins by a wide margin, but because he can't get past Itachi's specialty, he is weaker.
That's it. In every other aspect, Oro wins by a wide margin, but because he can't get past Itachi's specialty, he is weaker


ah because you think that by example, oro has a better jutsu speed than itachi??
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Old 2004-05-11, 17:52   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchiha_genesis
Because if Orochimaru was to be selected to be the fourth and Itachi is clearly stronger than Orochimaru wouldn't that make him a hokage level shinobi.
if ifs and buts where chashews and nuts... ... "DAMN THATS ALOTTA NUTS!"

Orochimaru and Itachi have never fought. Orochimaru Thinks that Itachi is stronger, but they have never fought, so we dont know do we.

it depends on how Criminals are ranked.

If S-Class is the highest, he probably is near Hokage level.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:00   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
The term "Hokage Level" depends on how you interpret the requirement to become a "Kage." If you want to say how well Itachi fares 1v1 against any of the current Leaf (sans the Sannin), he then probably meet the "strongest of the village" critera and can automatically be called "Hokage Level." But if you are comparing him to the past Hokages, then no, I don't think Itachi is at their level yet. In fact, I think Oro is more at the Hokage Level than Itachi. Let's see...Oro is very hit-resistant, very experienced, has a huge amount of chakra, an arsenal of jutsu with a bunch of deadly forbidden ones that probably can't be copied, and insanely powerful summon jutsu (Manda or past Hokages). Itachi so far shows his overall ability is above the average Konoha jounin-level. He has an arsenal of jutsu (assuming he abused his Sharingan as much as Kakashi did) and Mangekyo Sharingan so he can use normal Sharingan functions as long as he wants unlike Kakashi as well abilities specific to Mangekyo Sharingan like Tsukiyomi. As of now, I believe the primary reason Oro fears Itachi is that he can't counter the Mangekyo Sharingan. That's it. In every other aspect, Oro wins by a wide margin, but because he can't get past Itachi's specialty, he is weaker.
I totally agree. One of the assumptions I dislike the most are those that resemble "Naruto is Jounin level!" when it's really giving too much credit. To say Itachi is at a level equal to Sarutobi is ridiculous. Itachi is wha, 20 years-old? Hardly enough experience to become even a Jounin. The only reason he's dangerous at all is cause of the Sharingan, without that, he's nothing.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:00   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itachistyle
ah because you think that by example, oro has a better jutsu speed than itachi??
Several of the favorite jutsu Oro used don't even need hand seals so I can't really compare...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
Orochimaru and Itachi have never fought. Orochimaru Thinks that Itachi is stronger, but they have never fought, so we dont know do we.
I presume that Oro did have a confrontation with Itachi in the past. Oro strikes me as someone highly confident in his abilities; I doubt he will admit someone is stronger than him unless he understood the opponent very well (Sarutobi) or experienced fighting the opponent first-hand, and I highly doubt Oro will admit inferiority just by witnessing Itachi fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobobaggins
it depends on how Criminals are ranked.
If S-Class is the highest, he probably is near Hokage level.
Kisame is near Mizukage level as well, then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crysknife
The only reason he's dangerous at all is cause of the Sharingan, without that, he's nothing.
That's going a bit too far. ^_^;;
Itachi is probably still pretty formidable even without his Uchiha blood, but this train of thought is extremely unreasonable. It's like saying Neji or the entire Hyuga Clan is useless without Byakugan and the Gentle Fist Style...
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:23   Link #10
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If you meant in the Itachi vs. 3rd Hokage sense, no.

All you've seen Itachi do in the last eps is his eye illusion techinque. Which easily got nerfed by Gai when he said "Don't look into his eyes" so if someone like Gai knows something like that, so I would think the 3rd would know this also, plus when one of them did that pitch black techinque the 3rd was able to fight through so, as far as whats been seen of Itachi's abilities, 3rd had as a mighty good chance of beating him.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:25   Link #11
Kayess
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The fact is, Itachi is the strongest nin shown thus far in the series or manga. Oro in his prime is NOT as strong as him. Itachi while he was playing around was too much for a couple jounin. Not once has Itachi been serious except when he decides the current situation is too much of a hassle. His exploding kage bunshin caught everyone, save Kakashi, off guard and it hurt kakashi a fair bit. We have already seen Oro fight seriously and it is not too impressive. The most he has done was rely on his jutsu. Itachi, on the other hand has one thing above Oro which is definite, his intellegence. He easily tricked Kakashi with the shuriken in his hand, and then snuck up on Kakashi's Mizu Bunshin and stabbed it. He is very very sneaky and smart. Even if the unprobable is true (that he is weaker than Oro), he could most likely still beat him due to his intellegence. Who knows what other tricks he has up his sleeve.. or what his potential is when he is serious?

Sharingan is a good bloodline, granted. BUT it takes a hell of alot more to be an excellent ninja. Notice how Oro was not afraid of Kakashi at all even though Kakashi has a sharingan (although he cannot do that special genjutsu thing).


EDIT: However, I think he is stronger than Sarutobi, yet Saindaime would be able to beat him
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:26   Link #12
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the FACT is there is NOTHING proving that he is the strongest ninja we've seen so far, get your "facts" straight

Sarutobi IS Sandaime
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:27   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crysknife
I totally agree. One of the assumptions I dislike the most are those that resemble "Naruto is Jounin level!" when it's really giving too much credit. To say Itachi is at a level equal to Sarutobi is ridiculous. Itachi is wha, 20 years-old? Hardly enough experience to become even a Jounin. The only reason he's dangerous at all is cause of the Sharingan, without that, he's nothing.
Itachi is 17yr old.

About the comment of him not being as strong as past hokages..I think he is, I mean certainly stronger than 1st & 2nd. The 4th we have no idea about and the 3rd in his prime is supposudley the strongest.

As for comment about kisame being misukage lvl, well he probably is. Zabuza attempted an assasination on mist kage and considering everyone thinks kisame is stronger than zabuza its likely that he is mizukage lvl or below. The other kages seems to be pretty weak if the kazekage is anything to go by.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:42   Link #14
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Not to look into Itachi's eyes isn't enough, as Asuma said, only Gai who's probably the better Taijutsu specialist in the whole series so far can do that.

You can avoid the glaze of the Sharingan by several ways, the mist of Zabuza for example.
But once again you must be a huge specialist (in this case in silent killing), if not it's impossible.

Itachi is insanely fast and he's also obviously physically very strong.
he can also use his jutsus in combo incredibly fastly, whereas Kakashi is already an incredible jutsu user, he can't even see Itachi performs them with his Sharingan and when he used 2 jutsus, Itachi had already used 4 of them without anyone being able to notice his hand seals.

Itachi has also incredible jutsus that can't be beaten by anybody but an Uchiha, the Tsukiyomi indeed
Spoiler:




And the 3rd wasn't able to beat the genjutsu of the First, he just fought in the black with his clones.


edit :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon flame
the FACT is there is NOTHING proving that he is the strongest ninja we've seen so far, get your "facts" straight

Sarutobi IS Sandaime
There is the exact same fact as the one proving that Sarutobi was the God of the Shinobi in his youth : the manga says so.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:48   Link #15
crysknife
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That's going a bit too far. ^_^;;
Itachi is probably still pretty formidable even without his Uchiha blood, but this train of thought is extremely unreasonable. It's like saying Neji or the entire Hyuga Clan is useless without Byakugan and the Gentle Fist Style...
Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards. With so much emphasis on advanced bloodlines, if they were taken away, you would get fairly ordinary nins. Although useless is a bit harsh, they would be at most like Kurenai or Gai (no advanced bloodlines... so far), which isn't bad at all.

Quote:
We have already seen Oro fight seriously and it is not too impressive
Raising dead Hokages to do your dirty work isn't impressive?

Quote:
The most he has done was rely on his jutsu. Itachi, on the other hand has one thing above Oro which is definite, his intellegence.
And Itachi relied on what? His Sharingan. To do what? Copy jutsu. Oro isn't dumb, ambitious and overconfident, yeah, but not dumb.

Quote:
His exploding kage bunshin caught everyone, save Kakashi, off guard and it hurt kakashi a fair bit.
I think comparing Kakashi and the other Jounins to Oro (who IS Kage-level) is off. Kakashi almost shit in his pants when he confronted Oro after sealing Sasuke's curse.

Last edited by crysknife; 2004-05-11 at 19:02.
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:57   Link #16
Kayess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Flame
the FACT is there is NOTHING proving that he is the strongest ninja we've seen so far, get your "facts" straight

Sarutobi IS Sandaime
Hehe, I take it Dragon Flame here lacks the ability to understand I was referring to the same person when I said "Sarutobi" and "Sandaime" I know they are the same person.. I just felt like calling him by another name Anyways, I congradulate you on catching my little lie there. There is no fact, it is just my personal opinion. Hehe. Well done
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Old 2004-05-11, 18:59   Link #17
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Hunter, the manga doesnt say Itachi is the strongest ninja so far, NO ONE say that, EVER
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Old 2004-05-11, 19:05   Link #18
Kayess
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Originally Posted by crysknife
Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards. With so much emphasis on advanced bloodlines, if they were taken away, you would get fairly ordinary nins. Although useless <i>is</i> a bit harsh, they would be at most like Kurenai or Gai (no advanced bloodlines... so far), which isn't bad at all.

Raising dead Hokages to do your dirty work isn't impressive?
Nope, not really. Seems like a cowardly thing to do. Even with those dead hokages, he still BARELY escaped with his life. He is lucky Sandaime was so old.

Quote:
And Itachi relied on what? His Sharingan. To do what? Copy jutsu. Oro isn't dumb, ambitious and overconfident, yeah, but not dumb.
Itachi didn't rely on his sharingan. He used it twice (thus far in the anime). Once vs Kurenai and once vs Kakashi. Beyond that, all him

Quote:
I think comparing Kakashi and the other Jounins to Oro (who IS Kage-level) is off. Kakashi almost shit in his pants when he confronted Oro after sealing Sasuke's curse.
And Kakashi mentioned that Itachi coming back was the worst thing possible for the leaf. By your thinking, wouldn't Oro returning 100% be worst (and no one knows that Oro's arms are sealed, so he would assume 100% meant healed arms too).

However, playing devil's advocate, I could say "Stupid Kayess, by your thinking, you are saying Itachi is stronger than Kyuubi since would be worst is Kyuubi was unleashed".
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Old 2004-05-11, 19:14   Link #19
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Well if we consider everything that has happened so far, it's not hard to conclude that Itachi is the strongest ninja we've seen. Orochimaru's fear of him is reason enough to make that assumption. Then again, we've seen very little of Itachi in action compared to Orochimaru, so it's still up in the air. Matchup-wise though, I can't picture anyone beating him right now. You can't look at his face otherwise you automatically lose basically, and the only person who has a practical way around it is Gai. Looking at someone's feet during battle as opposed to the rest of their body is a mild disadvantage at best, and even if Gai could get around that, we don't know very much about Itachi's ninjutsu and taijutsu skills, but they've been hinted at being very good
Spoiler:



\/\/\/\/You're right, forgot about that. Might want to edit your post too
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Old 2004-05-11, 19:16   Link #20
Kayess
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Originally Posted by knubbe
Well if we consider everything that has happened so far, it's not hard to conclude that Itachi is the strongest ninja we've seen. Orochimaru's fear of him is reason enough to make that assumption. Then again, we've seen very little of Itachi in action compared to Orochimaru, so it's still up in the air. Matchup-wise though, I can't picture anyone beating him right now. You can't look at his face otherwise you automatically lose basically, and the only person who has a practical way around it is Gai. Looking at someone's feet during battle as opposed to the rest of their body is a mild disadvantage at best, and even if Gai could get around that, we don't know very much about Itachi's ninjutsu and taijutsu skills, but they've been hinted at being very good (breaking Sasuke's arm when Sasuke tried to Chidori him, and his ridiculously fast hand seal speed)
I suggest you put that last section in spoiler tags as it has not been revealed in the anime yet.
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