Visiting Japan

[Yu Ominae]

Been meaning to ask if anyone encountered any Caucasian persons working in the hotel industry in the major cities in Japan, but as low-level personnel (e.g. bellboys, etc.).

I found that one really fascinating IMO. I usually see them in managerial positions and such when I travel abroad.

[~sylf~]

Aird, Langus -

Thanks for all the input - see, I really do need people to give me some decent idea of what it'll be like there. I forgot to mention to you all that I'm in the science area, and anyone who's anyone in scientific academia NEEDS to know good English to publish in respectable journals. Therefore, work will probably be largely conducted in English. I only need to know enough Japanese to survive there, what level would that be? I only know basic hiragana/katakana and a few kanji now, but I certainly intend to improve that.

My connections in Japan - I have a friend there, and I am a member of a church which has establishments in Japan, so I can rely on the members there for support if I am left clueless on how to shop, lol. As for work, I would organise it before I get there by sending emails. I'm not dumb enough to fly off without having someplace to work first.

12hours sounds like a lot.. But I'm willing to do it for a few years if neccessary. I hear not all places are like that, though... you guys might just be referring to company-based work hours, I think. I'll have to figure it out if it's the same in a university.

Originally Posted by Langus

Japanese offices CAN be racist or sexist but many of them are not. I've never encountered any problems. Probably the worst thing you can do is come in with the attitude of "I am important. I have value because of my degree therefore you should all respect me!"

Erm, I didn't mean I'd stomp on everyone as soon as I step off the plane. -- I meant that comment as in, I want to go there to actually work and learn, not to be looked down on as someone's lackey just because I'm female and should be married off at home like a good housewife. So I was asking about the attitudes there, which you seem to think are good. I'm banking on the hopes that the science industry there should have enough international workers to realise that not all people in the world think like that.

Keep in mind though that saying something like "Well in America we..." won't get you far. You:re not in Kansas anymore.

.. I'm not American. And I can perfectly agree with your sentiment there, Americans who say that annoy me to death, thinking that everyone in the world should agree with them just because America is the centre of the world.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by Yu Ominae

Been meaning to ask if anyone encountered any Caucasian persons working in the hotel industry in the major cities in Japan, but as low-level personnel (e.g. bellboys, etc.).

I found that one really fascinating IMO. I usually see them in managerial positions and such when I travel abroad.

That's because unless you were born in Japan, one of the requirements for a work visa is that you have a university degree in your home country. It doesn't matter in what.

Odds are that someone with a university degree isn't going to be working as a bellboy or at the local convenience store. There are exceptions, of course, like people who come in via marriage or what not, but it's not common. Those lower level jobs are typically reserved for the Japanese kids who dropped out of high school.

[Langus]

Originally Posted by ~sylf~

I forgot to mention to you all that I'm in the science area, and anyone who's anyone in scientific academia NEEDS to know good English to publish in respectable journals. Therefore, work will probably be largely conducted in English. I only need to know enough Japanese to survive there, what level would that be? I only know basic hiragana/katakana and a few kanji now, but I certainly intend to improve that.

What kind of work are you planning on doing? Teaching at a university or research based? I know that to teach at a university most reputible schools require you to have a Masters degree. Also, pretty much any place is going to look more favourable on a candidate with a good command of written and spoken Japanese. It's not difficult to hire a translator and you'd be surprised how many people in academia speak little to no English.

Erm, I didn't mean I'd stomp on everyone as soon as I step off the plane. -- I meant that comment as in, I want to go there to actually work and learn, not to be looked down on as someone's lackey just because I'm female and should be married off at home like a good housewife. So I was asking about the attitudes there, which you seem to think are good. I'm banking on the hopes that the science industry there should have enough international workers to realise that not all people in the world think like that.

It's good to see you're going in with the right attitude. even if everything is peaches at first there will eventually come a point where Japan will seem backwards for whatever reason and it will piss you off. That's the point really where you need to remind yourself that you're in Japan, not your home country, and find a way to deal with it. Some people deal with it better than others but it sounds like you'll be just fine.

Good luck!

[Yu Ominae]

Originally Posted by Langus

That's because unless you were born in Japan, one of the requirements for a work visa is that you have a university degree in your home country. It doesn't matter in what.

Odds are that someone with a university degree isn't going to be working as a bellboy or at the local convenience store. There are exceptions, of course, like people who come in via marriage or what not, but it's not common. Those lower level jobs are typically reserved for the Japanese kids who dropped out of high school.

Ah. I see. The guy I met in the hotel in Kyoto had a Caucasian sounding accent and name, but I had a feeling he's been in Japan for a while.

[Irenicus]

In Japan right now on a study abroad (Yes, Nishinomiya, Haruhi`s city, between Osaka and Kobe; I think I even walk past the school that the author models SOS-dan`s school after every day -- argh that damn hill) and liking it so far. Question though:

How best to enjoy Osaka and Kyoto (and Kobe too maybe)?

Points of consideration:

1) I`m relatively poor.
2) Tour guide-style guided traveling isn`t exactly the most interesting. Yes, temples, woo.
3) I`ve always romanticized the Flaneur, but I`m not exactly good enough in Japanese to be walking around totally blind.
4) Ryoukan > Western Hotels, except for toilets
5) As said above, I`m sitting tight between Osaka and Kobe within walking distance of a JR station, but JR prices are quite expensive (any interesting discount options I should know?)
6) Will be here up to January. Fall and Winter, that is. What`s there to see that I shouldn`t ever miss?
7) The "Night Life" which Osaka at least is famous for isn`t for me. Alcohol = no thanks. Parties = not my jazz. Soaplands = fuck you...no, I don`t mean I actually will...ah screw it...I, I mean.... ...
8) What`s the best way to transport seven hundred tons of manga back home without exorbitant fees and customs annoyances?
9) Where to buy anime stuff for cheap in Kansai? Is Nipponbashi the right place?
10) Should I, or should I not, ever try to enter a maid/tsundere/butler(!?) cafe?

Spoiler for Points of Interest:

- Japanese roads feel extremely dangerous. By the gods, the roads can be so small that cars going opposite ways sometimes can`t pass each other, not to mention the usual pedestrian and bicycles mix; yet the drivers don`t even fucking slow down much or at all. How is it that the Japanese don`t have American rates of traffic roadkills?

- I was shocked that toilets and baths are separate. My obligatory culture shock, and a most...inconvenient one.

- Japanese summers are as blazing hot as anime says.

- Sailor fukus everywhere. I feel ridiculously guilty for being fascinated by them though.

- Manga here is *relatively* cheap. Then you factor in a lucky sales, and I`m like, shiiiit, I`m supporting the industry, biatches. Who`s a pirate now?

- Other things are relatively expensive, but an easygoing and somewhat intelligent visitor doesn`t have to break the bank not to stay hungry. Frugality and a bunch of nonsensical Confucian values can get one far. O-sushi is a luxury not a staple, cheap donburi is good enough, etc., etc.

- Americans need to learn Japanese customer service. Even the bureaucrats are nice. To nihongo-impaired gai(koku)jin no less.

- Trains are the most sensible current transportation choice for a crowded metropole. Viva Nippon. Yes, yes, it`s not profitable to bridge the American continent nine hundred times over with rails, but Los Angeles and Mother Gaia Herself could have benefited immensely if America was a little smarter about things. Ah wait, didn`t the Governator open some "Shinkansen" rail line somewhere? It was in the Japanese news.

- The lack of strict zoning laws seem to propogate a very eclectic kind of urban environment. Your mileage may vary, but I like my ten minutes walk to the city`s biggest department store. Albeit, no, Japanese streets don`t shine with monocolored budget-saving animated beauty. They can in fact look a bit shabby.

- Japanese cellphones are quite convenient, though they are not the multimedia smartphone devices along the lines of the Droids or the iPhone (which is in fact quite popular here). I notice however that much of the convenient services are based on the company network, thus rendering technological export difficult.

- I seem to fit in strangely well. My accent is excellent, apparently (who says anime isn`t educational now?) and I look "Asian" and don`t turn heads, to use the common parlance. Then I try to articulate complex thoughts, or answer complex questions, or read kanji-filled signs...

...yeah.

- Watched the BECK movie in Japanese. Aside from the usual adaptation-is-too-fast-and-loose consideration, or the Maho-is-hot laudatory, the biggest complaint I have is that Koyuki`s singing voice is never heard in the movie, not even in the epic singing-in-the-rain climax. What the f-?

- Arriety is out. Will watch it soon. I shall then proceed to gloat upon the rest of you who has no such luck even though I probably won`t understand half of it.

[thevil1]

OK so I have a question in regard to visiting/living in Japan...
I know getting a visitor's visa is one thing, but what about a foreigner, like me (and possibly you) getting a permanent visa and citizenship? Does Japan allow that sort of stuff?

[LMF]

Yes they do. Every country does that. Well, mostly. Remember, Japan doesn't allow dual-citizenship unless you're from Mexico or Uruguay(dual-citizenship).

Recently, Japan has been limiting the visa and citizenship due to overpopulation and foreigners in the job market. Though, I might be wrong.

Though, I wouldn't mind being a Japanese neutralize citizen, then later they pay me to leave the country. Easy money.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by thevil1

OK so I have a question in regard to visiting/living in Japan...
I know getting a visitor's visa is one thing, but what about a foreigner, like me (and possibly you) getting a permanent visa and citizenship? Does Japan allow that sort of stuff?

In order to get JPN citizenship, you need to revoke any other citizenships, unless you are under 20 or received honorary JPN citizenship for doing something great for Japan. I personally would never ever give up my American citizenship, but it's a personal choice.

[mindovermatter]

what about if your born there?
like an American who happens to be in Japan when she pops...is the kid considered Japanese?

[thevil1]

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

what about if your born there?
like an American who happens to be in Japan when she pops...is the kid considered Japanese?

If I remember correctly, I know someone who had a child like that (or at least similar)... The kid was born in a Japanese hospital in the USA. So If I remember the story correctly, the family had to do a lot of extra paperwork.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

what about if your born there?
like an American who happens to be in Japan when she pops...is the kid considered Japanese?

That sounds like the same case for me

I was born in Japan, then later came to America when I was 5-6 years old.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by thevil1

If I remember correctly, I know someone who had a child like that (or at least similar)... The kid was born in a Japanese hospital in the USA. So If I remember the story correctly, the family had to do a lot of extra paperwork.

How is the hospital Japanese if it's in the USA? US citizenship rules say a baby born on any US soil is American, so...?

btw no more anchor babies...

Originally Posted by mindovermatter

what about if your born there?
like an American who happens to be in Japan when she pops...is the kid considered Japanese?

The child could claim American citizenship because their parent is an American, and could claim Japanese citizenship because they were born in Japan. In this case, the child can have dual citizenship. They will have to choose which citizenship they keep when they turn 20, the age of consent in Japan; Japan does not allow for people over that age to have dual citizenship.

Originally Posted by Hooves

That sounds like the same case for me

I was born in Japan, then later came to America when I was 5-6 years old.

This is not the same, because you were never allowed to claim natural born American citizenship. You had to get it through naturalization, so the earliest you could have had American citizenship would have been when you were 23 or when your parent(s) obtained naturalized citizenship (the latter is considering they completed the naturalization process before you turned 18).

[LMF]

One question.

Why would you want to live in Japan?

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by LMF

One question.

Why would you want to live in Japan?

Yeah, I'd much rather go to live in Europe or a place that isn't so, "misunderstanding" of foreigners. I wouldn't mind staying for an exchange, but planning to spend the rest of my days in Japan is quite farfetched for me.

[Marcus H.]

Plus Tokyo (2) and Osaka (6) are among the most expensive cities to live in, according to GLOBAL/WORLD COST OF LIVING RANKINGS 2010/2011. See this for the list up to Rank 141.

Take note that in the same list, New York is 27th.

[Kudryavka]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Plus Tokyo (2) and Osaka (6) are among the most expensive cities to live in, according to GLOBAL/WORLD COST OF LIVING RANKINGS 2010/2011. See this for the list up to Rank 141.

Take note that in the same list, New York is 27th.

Yeah, not worth it unless I score a good full time job there (like upward of 100K a year). Which is pretty impossible

[JMvS]

Originally Posted by Komari

How is the hospital Japanese if it's in the USA? US citizenship rules say a baby born on any US soil is American, so...?

btw no more anchor babies...

The child could claim American citizenship because their parent is an American, and could claim Japanese citizenship because they were born in Japan. In this case, the child can have dual citizenship. They will have to choose which citizenship they keep when they turn 20, the age of consent in Japan; Japan does not allow for people over that age to have dual citizenship.

This is not the same, because you were never allowed to claim natural born American citizenship. You had to get it through naturalization, so the earliest you could have had American citizenship would have been when you were 23 or when your parent(s) obtained naturalized citizenship (the latter is considering they completed the naturalization process before you turned 18).

Unless one of his parent holds the Japanese nationality he won't be able to claim Japanese citizenship, given the Japanese nationality law, for Japan is a Jus sanguinis country, and not a Jus soli like the US.

Many Old World and particularly European countries are Jus sanguinis, unlike the New World where Jus soli is more common. Japan's law is probably one of the most severe, as it still does not tolerate dual citizenship, while many Jus sanguinis countries have softened their policies (Philippines comes to my mind, as I was able to reclaim citizenship a few years ago).

[Heiwatsuki]

hahhahaah I originally had wanted to move to japan and live with my japanese aunt because its always been my dream to attend a japanese high school(especially the same high school kyon in the anime the melancholy of haruhi suzumiya went to, since the anime settings are real places, even kyons house is a real house.... <-- Lol). I wanted to drop out to high school after finishing my sophomore year and live in japan.. after reading some things here im worring hahah.

Guess i have been a bit wayyyy to infuenced by anime. But nevertheless after i finish school i shall go to Japan!!!! and once i go there, the first thing i will do is buy an ENTIRE LIBRARY OF MANGA(exaggering :P) BWAHAHAHAH. sigh... guess my dream of attending a japanese high school will NEVER come true.. i have thought about trying to try the exchange student thing.. but im too shy and nervous. :O. and im not sure how the system works. how much does it cost and ect.
i
*sob* guess its time to stop dreaming and first finish high school atleast.... and btw... from what i read, its wierd to NOT have a girlfriend? Lmfao, ive always seen guys confessing and ect in anime ALOT but i didnt think it was the same in real life. Well, im wayy to shy and have no self confidence whatsoever to even try to confess or get a girlfriend... i had planned to never marry LOL. Bleh... Japan never fails to amaze me.

Well time to start studying since i got 3 tests coming up.... btw can anyone please answer some questions for me if i go to japan?
1. Are most people very social? cause i dont talk much(im known as the quiet guy at school). would they think im very wierd and tease me or ect?

2. Are there alot of bullies? and if so, do i have permission to beat them up? >

3. from what i see from anime, its normal to have a part time job from a early age right? in real life, is it easy to get a part time job in japan? and what age would be a normal age for a teenager to have a part time job.

4. in japanese schools, do they do alot of things where the students NEED to participate?(like cultural festival). if i wanted, can i not participate?

5. do japanese guys really get nosebleeds sometimes? like if a strong wind comes and makes some kawaii girls skirts go up, will a pervert get a nosebleed? . i would love to see that happen

6. whats the normal kind of transportation one would use to go somewhere. like subway,train,bus, or ect? and how much would it cost. from what i see in anime, the characters seen to travel to different places in japan alot.

7. What parts of japan are country? like a area with houses with electricity and plumbing but helping out in the rice fields and ect?(example would be the manga Kimi no Iru Machi)

8. is it worth visiting japan? whats it like there? and would it be okay to actually live there? if i knew a decent amount of japanese, and i lived in japan after finishing a college in america, what sort of stuff should i do to get started in living in a nice small apartment. my dream home has always been a japanese style house, but that aside, i wanted to live in a small apartment, each day going to my job and living the life of a shut in since i would know nobody there...

9. if i were to go to japan without knowing anyone there but knew enough japanese and have an enough amount of money to rent an apartment for a short while, what should i do to get started.

10. final Question: are japanese libraries (including school libraries) what you might see in an anime? america's school libraries are very small and uber boring but public libraries are somewhat decent but.., are japanese libraries very big and nice? also.. is there anything else i should know if i were to going live in japan?

Edit: what should i know about citizenship? how do i obtain a japanese citizenship and will not having one affect what kind of jobs i can get or lifestyle? and if i revoke my american citizenship, what kind of affects does it have in any way. from long term to short term affects. if i decided to return to america after revoking my american citizenship and living in japan for like 10 years or so, how can i get an american citizenship(or japanese citizenship). also... what affects does not having an american citizenship have if you are living in america
note: i have no clue about citizenships in general, and im 14..

In Japan right now on a study abroad (Yes, Nishinomiya, Haruhi`s city, between Osaka and Kobe; I think I even walk past the school that the author models SOS-dan`s school after every day -- argh that damn hill) and liking it so far. Question though:

How best to enjoy Osaka and Kyoto (and Kobe too maybe)?

omfg lucky... i wanted to see the school in real life and walk up that same hill....

8) What`s the best way to transport seven hundred tons of manga back home without exorbitant fees and customs annoyances?
10) Should I, or should I not, ever try to enter a maid/tsundere/butler(!?) cafe?

i feel a murderous intent... just kidding :P. though i am jealous.. i want a gigantic amount of manga like that >:O. and i have no knowlege of japan but.. i say GO INTO A MAID CAFE, IT WILL DEFINITLY BE A AWEASOME EXPERIENCE. seeing hot girls in short skirted maid uniforms saying Welcome master when you enter is more than enough to give a guy a nose bleed. . btw your french right? are you trilangual? english,french, and japanese? Bonjour monsieur, :P.

another note: i dont neccesarily plan on living in japan permanatly in japan yet, i will probably just live in japan for about a year or two to better experience their culture, im not that stupid to live in japan with almost no knowledge of japanese. i wonder if knowing a few hundred kanji, memorized hiragana and katakana and being able to read profeciently in hiragana and katakana(but not kanji) if enough to live in japan? how much and what should i know in terms of communicative skills to live in japan. and if i do live in japan, i want to live in the countryside, a nice slow paced lifestyle. where would a beautiful countryside like that be?

[Dragonar Fan]

I'd Visit for the fact of Aokigahara & Yonaguni Island (but I'm a nut case )