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Old 2003-11-23, 08:18   Link #21
Loki_Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board
That was rude, Loki.

Very rude.

しってる。。。。ごめんえ。。
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Old 2003-11-23, 08:19   Link #22
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North American software distribution is so tightly locked up by the major entities (EA, Sierra, etc) that it is virtually impossible for any individual development company to stand any hope whatsoever to break into the market without basically selling their game to the big distributers first, and frankly, the big boys are not in the least interested in taking chances. The game development industry is stuffed with otaku, but the publishers are the ones that pay the gigantic development costs and basically take charge of the game and make sure it gets shelf space at Best Buy and EB. They decide what games will be made, and if the developer doesn't like it, then no one will buy the game because everyone goes to EB and Best Buy and Walmart, etc, for games.

Eidos is not going to Age; Age has to go to Eidos. And they will be rejected. So what's a developer outside of the loop supposed to do? Do they have millions of dollars to pump into localization and advertising? Many large retail chains will have nothing whatsoever to do with this type of game. The challenges present to break into the North American markets are great even for American developers who don't get signed on with a big publisher. What's an independant from Japan supposed to do? Nothing is impossible, but the barrier is just too great. I would personally love it and become a huge Age fan if they translated their games to English -- but I would love it even more if they would just give me a cheque for the tens of thousands of dollars it might cost, because to Age it amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?
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Old 2003-11-23, 10:39   Link #23
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There's always a chance that an already established bishoujo game importer (JAST USA or something) will translate the game (especially if ppl flood them with emails about it). But yeah, American gamers and text-based sims do not match up properly... There's zero chance that a game like this will survive in the store self.
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Old 2003-11-24, 00:36   Link #24
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The japanese views of the north american adult game industry is definately not a favorable one. They definately don't see at as an opportunity (even if a company approached them about localization). And quite franky, they have a point.

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Old 2003-11-24, 00:56   Link #25
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...unless, we do it ourselves...

ADV seems to have had its lows but is high.

If we can act upon it, maybe we will have our lows, but maybe in the end we can have our highs too...
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Old 2003-11-24, 01:54   Link #26
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Hm.. Wasn't there a small group doing games like these..? Except as DVD's or something. I think they were called Hirameki..? ^^; I could be wrong though.

I wish the american companies would stop releasing all the hardcore porn games and actually release some with good stories. And aren't some of the really popular ones also available without the adult content? I think maybe if advertised properly it could do fairly well.. Of course the target audience would have to be anime fans. ^_^;
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Old 2003-11-24, 05:56   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshiba
Hm.. Wasn't there a small group doing games like these..? Except as DVD's or something. I think they were called Hirameki..? ^^; I could be wrong though.

I wish the american companies would stop releasing all the hardcore porn games and actually release some with good stories. And aren't some of the really popular ones also available without the adult content? I think maybe if advertised properly it could do fairly well.. Of course the target audience would have to be anime fans. ^_^;

well america is all about.......GORE.....HARDCORE GORE.....KILLING!.....more KILLING......VIOLANCE.......more VIOLANCE.....and SEX......i mean really HARDCORE SEX.......

im sure u get an American......to watch Love Hina......and the Simpsons.....and he goes straight up to the stupid ass simpsons.......OMG! or even worst!

Get them to watch Kanon.....or DBZ........we know they will go for DBZ.....thats what mostly moves american industry in games/movies/shows.
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Old 2003-11-24, 06:08   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_Sama
well america is all about.......GORE.....HARDCORE GORE.....KILLING!.....more KILLING......VIOLANCE.......more VIOLANCE.....and SEX......i mean really HARDCORE SEX.......

im sure u get an American......to watch Love Hina......and the Simpsons.....and he goes straight up to the stupid ass simpsons.......OMG! or even worst!

Get them to watch Kanon.....or DBZ........we know they will go for DBZ.....thats what mostly moves american industry in games/movies/shows.
Not all americans... -_-
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Old 2003-11-24, 06:55   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddler
If you don't have that time, perhaps try supporting the english b-game community. Here's a tip though, downloading games off of usenet/bit torrent doesn't entice game makers to want to release their games here. If there was a market here, chances are games like kiminozo could be translated.

Doddler
I guess G-Collections is the most active Bishoujo game translator currently, with almost one game per month being released right now. They have three games being translated currently, and Crescendo was finished little over a month ago. I doubt they'll keep that pace up for long though, since they have a rather limited number of companies they are cooperating with. Unless they are going to release older games like Majokko Silk (prequel to Tottemo Pheromone), and the older Tsukushite Agechau games, which I find unlikely.
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Old 2003-11-24, 10:57   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GUTB_
What's an independant from Japan supposed to do? Nothing is impossible, but the barrier is just too great. I would personally love it and become a huge Age fan if they translated their games to English -- but I would love it even more if they would just give me a cheque for the tens of thousands of dollars it might cost, because to Age it amounts to the same thing, doesn't it?
Perhaps I'm naive, but I like to believe in Say's Law (supply creates its own demand in the long run)

Okay. What you're talking about is the significant fixed/sunk costs involved in translating the games (translation teams, verification, etc) and publishing them (getting them onto retail shelves). The variable costs are much less in proportion to fixed costs, so the main worry is insufficient demand to cover the investment, yes?

First of all, I don't think a simple translation job will cost too much for Age. I look at the huge quantities of fansubs available, and they say: its not impossible for the fans, so why should it be for the professionals. I say translation costs are marginal compared to publication. I dont think its tens of thousands of dollars.

Publication is always a problem for non mainstream anything, especially if you're trying to target mainstream US gamers. So screw that.
Skip publication costs through online sales and distribution, much cheaper than having to go through Big Gaming and buying shelf space. Only anime fans would want to buy it anyway, and guess what - all of these fansub watchers are probably not averse to online purchases. If the product is *good*, then word spreads. Critical mass is attained and marketing is self-generating. Profits accrue, and Age has created a niche for itself. Alternately, distribution could be, as someone else has said, through G-connection and other somewhat established channels.

So is there a sufficient fan consumer base to cover the translation costs and online transaction costs? I don't know - I think so. Let's convince Age that there is.
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Old 2003-11-24, 13:48   Link #31
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Do you really think there's enough demand for kiminozo here? I personally don't. G-Collections does good because they have an assembly line translation process; They take a bunch of smaller games and push them out the door as quickly and cheaply as possible. Its how they get a decent return on investment. Unfortunately, kiminozo is far more complex, far larger than any of those games. Hence, is far more expensive to translate. In order to get a decent return, you have to sell alot more copies. And really, people who will play the game and people who will buy the game are two separate groups. Just cause there's a few of us here who want the game translated doesn't mean we'll all pay $70-$80 (roughly the price of the game in japan) for it. This *IS* a community based off of free distribution of entertainment, after all.

I'm not against translating it... I would personally love it if it got translated. I'm just saying there's not a large enough group of supporters to make it a worthwhile endevor.

Just for the sake of discussion, if it was translated, how many units of sales do you think they'd get?

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Old 2003-11-24, 19:17   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koshiba
Hm.. Wasn't there a small group doing games like these..? Except as DVD's or something. I think they were called Hirameki..? ^^; I could be wrong though.
There are a few people working on a few projects (like Kanon, Mizuiro, etc) but as far as I know, this isn't a very popular topic for fan translations.... Don't know what Hirameki you're talking about though.
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Old 2003-11-25, 02:16   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
...unless, we do it ourselves...

ADV seems to have had its lows but is high.

If we can act upon it, maybe we will have our lows, but maybe in the end we can have our highs too...
Didn't see this before... Its a good idea, I'd be willing to give it a shot, but I have no idea how far we can get. There exists plugins for various programs (I used SUSIE) to open up .rio files, but I never tested it for saving. Also, it only works with the CD specification, not the DVD version. But, if the file has been opened before, there's likely a format specification out there that'll allow me to whip up a program to extract (and pack) the files.

Its also likely that for the purpose of debugging, that the game will also load up script files from the games directory that arn't in the pack file. Repacking the huge datafile is a pain to test each change. Also, I have no clue how complex the scipting files are for the rUGP system, but its likely pretty tricky. It would take a good effort to even bring the project to the point where we can start actually translating.

I'd be willing to give it a shot though, if others are interested.

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Old 2003-11-25, 02:20   Link #34
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If many people want to understand something, it is more efficient for one person to translate than 1000 to study Japanese


Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
No, selfish is someone who wants to have someone translate the game, have him do all the work, because that someone is too lazy to learn a new language.

A real "doryoku-ka" is a person who spends several years learning the a language, practically shedding his life away because he loves someone/something very dearly.

Don't you call me selfish...I've learned how to speak English through blood, sweat and toil for someone and something that I truly believe and hope for.
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Old 2003-11-25, 02:47   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doddler
Do you really think there's enough demand for kiminozo here? I personally don't. G-Collections does good because they have an assembly line translation process; They take a bunch of smaller games and push them out the door as quickly and cheaply as possible. Its how they get a decent return on investment. Unfortunately, kiminozo is far more complex, far larger than any of those games. Hence, is far more expensive to translate. In order to get a decent return, you have to sell alot more copies. And really, people who will play the game and people who will buy the game are two separate groups. Just cause there's a few of us here who want the game translated doesn't mean we'll all pay $70-$80 (roughly the price of the game in japan) for it. This *IS* a community based off of free distribution of entertainment, after all.

I'm not against translating it... I would personally love it if it got translated. I'm just saying there's not a large enough group of supporters to make it a worthwhile endevor.

Just for the sake of discussion, if it was translated, how many units of sales do you think they'd get?

Doddler
Noted and taken.
So at this point, official production and distribution is out of the question then...? Alright. I was hoping that it wasn't, then we could get critical mass by alerting the fansub groups to spread the word that we were going to lobby for sth.
if its to be a fan translation project, then we still need the critical mass of mad haxxorz... specialisation and distribution of labour...
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Old 2003-11-25, 03:22   Link #36
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ah......ummm, ahhh, dammit......i feel useless

like i said my friend is japanese and if there is ppl gonna be needed, he is 100% willing to do it......he already translated an RPG......
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Old 2003-11-25, 04:44   Link #37
Mentar
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Loki: I have an idea who I may be able to ask - not sure if he can provide the tools necessary to allow for a translation, but I'll try.
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Old 2003-11-25, 05:39   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Mentar
Loki: I have an idea who I may be able to ask - not sure if he can provide the tools necessary to allow for a translation, but I'll try.
But what ever we all try to find out, for as little as it maybe...its worth a try.
And im sure its appreciated ^_^.
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Old 2003-11-25, 12:36   Link #39
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I've mentioned this before, the hardest part of this project will be bringing it to a point where it can be translated. That will be by far the trickiest part. In a perfect world, we'd need a tool that can take the games script file, and decomplile it into a readable script, generate a flowchart for the games paths (hard to translate if you don't know *what* you're translating), and recomplile it into a working format for the game when its completed. THAT is the tough part. Translation can't come until the tools are done. I know people are willing to translate, but that part is unfortunately quite a ways down the line. What we need now is programmers with alot of patience :P.

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Old 2003-12-23, 23:26   Link #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki_Sama
well america is all about.......GORE.....HARDCORE GORE.....KILLING!.....more KILLING......VIOLANCE.......more VIOLANCE.....and SEX......i mean really HARDCORE SEX.......

im sure u get an American......to watch Love Hina......and the Simpsons.....and he goes straight up to the stupid ass simpsons.......OMG! or even worst!

Get them to watch Kanon.....or DBZ........we know they will go for DBZ.....thats what mostly moves american industry in games/movies/shows.
whats wrong with simpsons? i like that and love hina and kanon.



as far as a translated game itself, i would be content with a translated word file i could print out of what happens so i could just consult that as the game goes on.

example story opens i can read from page one through until the first choice Tak must make, then i would turn to what ever page this choice takes me too and continue on like that. (like the choose your own adventure books from the 80s )

don't know if this would be easier or not but no code would need to be broken, just someone who could translate would have to play the game and do every possible choice to get every possible story (which would need to be done anyway) then they could type it out in MS word, notebook or whatever for easy print out
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