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Old 2004-05-18, 23:26   Link #61
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rorosama
What's this red eye jutsu kabuto has?
Noone knows ... but when he gets pushed something happens and his eyes start getting red like blood is rushing into them. It looks like a bloodline limit. Watch the chuhnin exam episode again where they are fighting those nins that use genjutsu. The guys that go "Oh shit we got pwned. Unlucky" or "He's alone, now is my chance ... Lucky"
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Old 2004-05-18, 23:39   Link #62
Bronwen Stx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Spoiler:
Naturally. Naruto is still at best, crossing between genin and chuunin level but with abilities beyond that of chuunin (Rasengan and Kuchiyose) so in all fairness, last man standing is the winner which is Kabuto. Still, he got him good.

As for the question at hand.

^___^^___^

Kabuto will be kissing Kakashi's ass, in my holy opinion. Literally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Kakashi is older ... but Kabuto doesn't really fall behind in his knowledge. He's just as sly even at that age. I look forward to this fight. To see Kabuto show off all he's god but still loose

And 1 more thing it's not just Jiraiya and Oro saying that Kabuto is a match for Kakashi ... Kakashi himself says it too. During their first meeting Kakashi says "I can't beat a guy like that in my current state". I guess Kakashi is talking out of his ass too ... he just doesn't know that he should simply whipe the floor with Kabuto or pwn him with his Chidori.
Kabuto loves to press on stronger people's nerves, he wants to challenge people stronger than him and goats them to feel that they need to fight him. At any case, I have every right to believe that we have yet to see Kabuto's full strength because we haven't even if we seen him in action during Tsunade's arc. But if he were to face someone up to his level and not beyond his level, ^^, definitely something to look forward to.

Kakashi is out of shape because he was assigned as Team 7's teacher, he hasn't been able to focus on his training or gain any sort of momentum with his skills simple cause he had no time. But his history says all, copying over 1000 jutsus, graduated Chuunin exam at the age 6 and is ex-ANBU, I think he has experience in all levels of being a shinobi. Plus with his Sharingan, he's easily overwhelming. He's also a genius. Genius+Sharingan+experience+over 1000 jutsus = winner.

In the end of a very intensed fight , both grey-haired are battered, tired and in dire need of a shower. Kakashi wins. Neenee. And he gets to snog Kabuto (leader of the holy Akatasuki organization). Mwha.
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Old 2004-05-19, 00:51   Link #63
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After reading all of the posts (perhaps I still will miss some points of information but bear with me) let me address some of the obvious issues brought up(only in my perspective).

The comment of Orochimaru saying that "at best, Kauto is at Kakashi's level" and Hunter adding that Jiariya said more or less the same - I think has good validity to be taken as proof of Kakashi being better. Also Hunter added that Kakashi said something along the lines of "if Orochimaru has guys like Kabuto, he[Kakashi] wouldn't be enough." The first statement[from Oro and Jiariya] does put Kabuto on Kakashi's level, but does not take the step to advance Kabuto to Kakashi himself. Being on someone's level I would only equate to something along the lines of "unable for one to eliminate another without problems." Being on the same level could still mean that one person is generally stronger than another. Also about the statement Kakashi made himself - Kakashi was making the statement as more of a plural. At the very least, Kakashi knows he would have to go through Kabuto first before getting to Orochimaru. To me, it seems that Kakashi making that statement is saying that Kabuto isn't a pushover, but having more guys like him is more than what he could handle - on top of all of them, Orochimaru.

About the issue with Naruto vs Kabuto - of course I still dont think Naruto is on Kabuto's level, but I think the level of underestimation he put on Naruto, and his mistake is one that reduces his level in my opinion. I think even on Kakashi's worst day(and being tired from previous battle and damage recieved), he wouldn't be caught by such a thing from Naruto. Perhaps this comes from Kakashi's personal knowledge and experience with Naruto, but at the same time, Kakashi is shown to be very capable of accurately judging the enemy ability (with the exception of Itachi >.< ). In water country he was able to tell the level of the two ninjas hiding in the pool of water easily and know what level of problems(or lack of) they would present. He was also able to gauge Haku's level, and Zabuza very accurately and pretty instantly. Does gauging the enemy attribute to him being better? Well...to an extent I think Kakashi would have already said something about Kabuto being 'better' if he really was able to beat him. So far, all Kakashi has said was that Kabuto is no small fry to take lightly. He doesn't seem to hold the belief that Kabuto is in anyway capable of beating him.(in a real fight). Again, this is subjective as Kabuto is shown to hide his ability well.

On to some new stuff towards my opinion of Kakashi being better ^_^ :
As it was said before, Kakashi holds a lot of mission experience, Sharingan, and "1000 jutsu."* When someone gauges Kabuto ability wise - sure they can say he is on the same level of Kakashi, but I don't think that considers some "non-standard" advantages that Kakashi has over Kabuto. Sharingan is a key battle ability component that I don't think Kabuto has anything to deal with well. Kakashi's mission experience is also something that should attribute to his superiority. While Kabuto doesn't have up-to-date records in the data book, I think it should be pretty obvious that he still doesn't have anywhere near the numbers that Kakashi has. What can he do for one guy that hasn't been too active for the time covered in the manga/anime? I'm sure he has done some key things that are probably A or S ranked, but he still doesn't have the numbers. Even with greater ability, people with greater experience usually still win. (i.e. Michael Jordan vs Kevin Garnett) - some people can be faster and stronger, and yet they are still unable to beat someone who is just overall more "complete" in their game and have been in it longer than others.

I'm not saying that just because Kabuto is a medical nin that he can't battle effectively. I don't disagree that his medical abilites would be effective in a battle. Reasonably though, I think it's a little easier to know the human body to heal it, than to go for precise points to damage it on a moving, evading, and attacking target. We see Tsunade able to do some crazy medical things in her battle just because she is on a level considerably over any Jounin(and Kabuto). Given she was just a Jounin with the same jutsu/abilities, she probably wouldn't have hit Kabuto with it so easily.

*I think this 1000 jutsu thing shouldn't be held too literal as it seems to be by some people. I think it is just a saying that Kakashi has copied a lot of jutsu since he has the ability to and has a lot of combat experience. As far as an actual count, it could be well over or below a thousand.
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Old 2004-05-19, 01:34   Link #64
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Noone knows ... but when he gets pushed something happens and his eyes start getting red like blood is rushing into them. It looks like a bloodline limit. Watch the chuhnin exam episode again where they are fighting those nins that use genjutsu.
Nay; Kabuto told Tsunade that Oro wanted him not because of his abilities but because his body regenerates mad fast. As for the blood-rush thing, it's not THAT rare even in reality. Basically I interpreted that Kabuto was having trouble holding back his bloodlust (to kick the living crap out of these darn brat genins) and maintaining his "weak" image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
The guys that go "Oh shit we got pwned. Unlucky" or "He's alone, now is my chance ... Lucky"
LMAO that guy was hilarious...I hope to see him again in the next Chuunin Exam. XD
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Old 2004-05-19, 02:23   Link #65
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Nay; Kabuto told Tsunade that Oro wanted him not because of his abilities but because his body regenerates mad fast. As for the blood-rush thing, it's not THAT rare even in reality. Basically I interpreted that Kabuto was having trouble holding back his bloodlust (to kick the living crap out of these darn brat genins) and maintaining his "weak" image.
Hmmm I guess I hope he has a bloodline ... cause he's not originally from the leaf. He was found during a mission by the leader of the med team and adopted. Even though bloodlust may not be rare ... I think it is quite rare that your eyes go all red when you get it.



I loved those guys too "Lucky[in deep roboty voice]"
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Old 2004-05-19, 05:53   Link #66
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Even though bloodlust may not be rare ... I think it is quite rare that your eyes go all red when you get it.
See: Prince of Tennis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
I loved those guys too "Lucky[in deep roboty voice]"
Too bad that unlucky fella didn't make it to the prelims; had he witnesses Naruto's lucky fart against Kiba, he probably would've joined Konohamaru's Naruto-niichan worshippers. "Oh my, sugoiiiiiiiiii lucky!"
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Old 2004-05-19, 06:07   Link #67
Roninblues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
ohhh noes vs. threads gallore.


Where do you plan to go with this?

Even the anime says they are pretty much equels ...

Until they fight you don't know ...


The thing that drives vs threads is that the anime doesn't clearly say they are at the same level.

To add onto this, i believe most of these VS thread starters don't realize the sheer randomness involved in fighting. Even the supposed best can be beaten by an underdog that got lucky. Strength isn't a straight line, so it's not easily comparable. This becomes more true when you factor in "lucK".

Also, first post here, shibang.
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Old 2004-05-19, 06:37   Link #68
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roninblues
To add onto this, i believe most of these VS thread starters don't realize the sheer randomness involved in fighting. Even the supposed best can be beaten by an underdog that got lucky. Strength isn't a straight line, so it's not easily comparable. This becomes more true when you factor in "lucK".
Since I don't start these vs threads, I can't speak for them, but as someone who participates in these vs threads, I am fully aware of the randomness and other various factors of a ninja battle--I cannot account for those nor am I going to run simulations; all I can do is state what advantages one side has over the other that result in my choice of the winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roninblues
Also, first post here, shibang.
Welcome, and enjoy your stay!
Oh, and vote Ramen Girl!
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Old 2004-05-19, 09:02   Link #69
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i dont know if Kakashi knowing 1000 jutsu is really gonna be all that helpful. all ive seen him do so far is just copy what his enemy is doing. or summon or chidori.

you never see him do something he copied in a previous fight.

Sharingan doesnt make you a Master of the Universe, just b/c he has one, doesnt mean he can take on anyone that doesnt have one. "oh, he has a sharingan so he can beat this guy this guy and this guy." itll help but i really dont think thats gonna decide the fight.

I think either one could win.

and the Kabuto vs. Naruto fight, like some said, he couldnt move around all that well b/c of what Tsunade did, and he didnt even know what the Rasengan was, so he didnt take him very seriously.
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Old 2004-05-19, 09:06   Link #70
Nine Devil
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So Naruto23524 or whatever should i even answer for your reply?
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Old 2004-05-19, 10:44   Link #71
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
As for the blood-rush thing, it's not THAT rare even in reality. Basically I interpreted that Kabuto was having trouble holding back his bloodlust (to kick the living crap out of these darn brat genins) and maintaining his "weak" image.
Yeah that exactly how I interpreted this scene ^^

Ebony, Zabuza said that his old identification notebook when he was in the assassin troop of the Mist stated that Kakashi copied more than a thousand jutsu with his Sharingan (not 1000 exactly).
There is no reason not to take what he said literally.
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:03   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Ebony, Zabuza said that his old identification notebook when he was in the assassin troop of the Mist stated that Kakashi copied more than a thousand jutsu with his Sharingan (not 1000 exactly).
There is no reason not to take what he said literally.
Point of fact taken. Though he still could have over a thousand then.
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:13   Link #73
Joe Dalton
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yes... yes he could... On a side note... What if kakashi copied the sexy no jutsu and does the chidori while in that form?
From what we have seen Kabuto almost only gets some feels in on oro but thats about it... either he is verry vulnerable 2 this jutsu or it doesnt effect him at all in wich case kakashi just .... adapts...
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:18   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
Well,Kabuto was mentioned to be of equal Lv. to Kakashi.
So i was wondering,
Kabuto Vs. Kakashi who would win?
Well,on one hand Kabuto has his "Hyper-Healing Factor",But Kakashi has his Sharingan.
The most immedaite(?) Ans. people would think of is,Kakashi would win because of his Sharingan advantage,but since Kabuto is up on Kakashi's Lv.,Kabuto might have more powDerfull techniques hidden up his sleeve as well.

Btw,i was also wondering,who would win?Kabuto or Gai?hmmm......
Kabuto doesnt just have "magical healing powers." His "hand" as quoted by anime, is probably a deadly weapon. He put the whole stadium to sleep at the Chuunin exam, and knocked Kiba out with a slight touch. He definitely could have made it fatal. I still believe Kakashi would win though, because he is a more accomplished and experienced Jounin with the bonus of a sharingan, which most ninjas cant do much against.
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:30   Link #75
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Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim
Point of fact taken. Though he still could have over a thousand then.
Indeed, the '1000 jutsu' thingy is a way of speaking, nobody knows exactly how many jutsu Kakashi has (probably not even him ).
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:35   Link #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
i dont know if Kakashi knowing 1000 jutsu is really gonna be all that helpful. all ive seen him do so far is just copy what his enemy is doing. or summon or chidori.

you never see him do something he copied in a previous fight.

Sharingan doesnt make you a Master of the Universe, just b/c he has one, doesnt mean he can take on anyone that doesnt have one. "oh, he has a sharingan so he can beat this guy this guy and this guy." itll help but i really dont think thats gonna decide the fight.

I think either one could win.

and the Kabuto vs. Naruto fight, like some said, he couldnt move around all that well b/c of what Tsunade did, and he didnt even know what the Rasengan was, so he didnt take him very seriously.
He used Zabuza's water clone against Itachi. The fact is, the more tools you have in your belt the more prepared you are going to be for any fight. Though knowing more jutsu isn't a guarantee of an easy victory.
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Old 2004-05-19, 11:49   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillage
i dont know if Kakashi knowing 1000 jutsu is really gonna be all that helpful. all ive seen him do so far is just copy what his enemy is doing. or summon or chidori.

you never see him do something he copied in a previous fight.

Sharingan doesnt make you a Master of the Universe, just b/c he has one, doesnt mean he can take on anyone that doesnt have one. "oh, he has a sharingan so he can beat this guy this guy and this guy." itll help but i really dont think thats gonna decide the fight.

I think either one could win.

and the Kabuto vs. Naruto fight, like some said, he couldnt move around all that well b/c of what Tsunade did, and he didnt even know what the Rasengan was, so he didnt take him very seriously.

I agree. I also think that the eyes red thing is a bloodline ability of his that they are teasing us with, so that we realize hes more than meets the eye.

If it was just him "controlling his bloodlust" why would they only do it once EVER and with just HIM? I dont think so....
The author is trying to portray a veil of mystery around him, and will obviously surprise us at one point with this character.

Like i said before, the author wouldnt have him hold back a power in front of us, then when he goes to use it he doesnt even at least EQUAL kakashi in strength?
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Old 2004-05-19, 18:51   Link #78
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About that whole Kakashi saying I am not strong enough in this state...blah blah blah....


Quote:
The comment of Orochimaru saying that "at best, Kauto is at Kakashi's level" and Hunter adding that Jiariya said more or less the same - I think has good validity to be taken as proof of Kakashi being better. Also Hunter added that Kakashi said something along the lines of "if Orochimaru has guys like Kabuto, he[Kakashi] wouldn't be enough." The first statement[from Oro and Jiariya] does put Kabuto on Kakashi's level, but does not take the step to advance Kabuto to Kakashi himself. Being on someone's level I would only equate to something along the lines of "unable for one to eliminate another without problems." Being on the same level could still mean that one person is generally stronger than another. Also about the statement Kakashi made himself - Kakashi was making the statement as more of a plural. At the very least, Kakashi knows he would have to go through Kabuto first before getting to Orochimaru. To me, it seems that Kakashi making that statement is saying that Kabuto isn't a pushover, but having more guys like him is more than what he could handle - on top of all of them, Orochimaru.
^^^^Exactly because hee said if ORO has guys like this working under him I can't win in this state meaning against ORO

Also Hunter just because something was said before BECAUSE I DID READ THE HOLE THING doesn't mean when arguing you can't use them to support you because if you wanted I an take one of your things and quote it with bits of pieces of what someone else said because you form your opinions based on 50% of what you know and 50% of what you heard.

Still Kakashi would win I am not saying he OWN Kabuto I mean it would be a great fight and all but in the end Kakashi would be victorious

**And I think those 100 copied jutsu is literall**
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Old 2004-05-19, 18:56   Link #79
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Well. Kakashi just needs a Chidori shot. That's all he needs to get Kabuto's ass kicked.
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Old 2004-05-19, 19:20   Link #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naruto714
^^^^Exactly because hee said if ORO has guys like this working under him I can't win in this state meaning against ORO
1-You stupid Naruto noob respect Hunter-san he is one of the greatest posters in this forum and probably knows the most.

2-Just tell me this when in his lifespan did Kakashi had a chance against Orochimaru? He is a no match for Orochimaru,no match.
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