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View Poll Results: Who is the ultimate shinobi?
The 1st 24 5.99%
The 2nd 3 0.75%
Sarutobi 117 29.18%
The 4th 119 29.68%
Jiraiya 27 6.73%
Orochimaru 10 2.49%
Tsunde 4 1.00%
Itachi 73 18.20%
Other...[Please State Who] 24 5.99%
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-09-13, 23:56   Link #341
Sazelyt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarl
Itachi is easily fooled and really good at running away with a jutsu that uses all his chakra... awesome? If it takes so much from Itachi chakra/staminawise to defeat 1 of Jiraiya's jutsu, do you really think Jiraiya can be defeated by him?

I think Amaterasu is overrated. If it was as godly as some of you think why didn't he just kill Jiraiya with it? Maybe he can't use it on things that know how to move/dodge?
'Running away when sensing danger' technique is a measure of how good a ninja you are. Itachi is one of the greatest. Since Sasuke will be amongst the greatest, he has to learn and practice this technique as soon as possible, for instance he might use this technique in the upcoming chapters, if Naruto grows some more tails.

For Amaterasu; I wonder what kind of technique it is and how Itachi and Kisame moved forward through it without being affected at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
We dont know what he ment all we know is that there was some sort of sideeffect from using the jutsu. this doesnt mean he is LOW on chackra.
If he had chakra level comparable to that of the Sannins, then we can assume that Amaterasu is maybe the most chakra consuming technique, which I do not believe.
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Old 2004-09-14, 00:59   Link #342
Sabaku no Gaara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
There is no almost he either did or he didn't, and guess what*drum roll* HE DIDN't. Plus when they are retreating Kisame says this "why are we retreating couldnt u have....". Itachi replys "It doesnt matter with the state that naruto is in he isnt a threat. plus i was foolishly forced into useing blahblahblah*bad ass jutsus we all know what they are :P*. i need to rest too"

All he says is that he needs to rest watch it agian if you would like. We dont know what he ment all we know is that there was some sort of sideeffect from using the jutsu. this doesnt mean he is LOW on chackra.
WTF....you just contridicted yourself in that statement. Do you think after FOOLISHY FORCED those jutsu's, he was just all lethargic and just needed a nap because he was tired. He was just like "All right, enough excitement, I have completely full chakra but I'm just too bored I might as well sleep..." no, it's because those jutsu's he used had a side effect on him where he wasn't able to take Jiraiya in his current state. Good job, you just proved me right.

Of course they weren't worried about Naruto, he isn't nearly developed enough, but they WERE worried about Jiraiya. If they weren't they would've just taken care of him then and taken Naruto away. Simple is that...123
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Old 2004-09-14, 09:40   Link #343
Nub.Itachi
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umm i didnt contradict my self k thx read my post agian.. im pretty sure i dodnt read a contradition srry , and once again read the manga Kisame says iit him self i believe, i write right the direct quote down now but im at school . He said something like it creats stain or something he used 3 of what we know of some of his POWERFUL jutsu's in a day thats quite alot. plus he already fought a couple people im sure Itachi had his GOOD reasons for retreating but. Kisame seemed to have ALOT of confidence in him.
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Old 2004-09-14, 12:18   Link #344
xavier8200
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Sarutobi wins hands down. He knows ALL of the jutsus in Konoha and on top of that he combines his jutsus very well. I dont even know if anyone combines their jutsus at all. Sarutobi has jutsus on top of jutsus even without the sharingan.

Also he has some pretty slick taijutsu he was goin to work when Enma turned into the staff.
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Old 2004-09-14, 14:11   Link #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
umm i didnt contradict my self k thx read my post agian.. im pretty sure i dodnt read a contradition srry , and once again read the manga Kisame says iit him self i believe, i write right the direct quote down now but im at school . He said something like it creats stain or something he used 3 of what we know of some of his POWERFUL jutsu's in a day thats quite alot. plus he already fought a couple people im sure Itachi had his GOOD reasons for retreating but. Kisame seemed to have ALOT of confidence in him.
watch the Anime again bud, after he says he needs to rest, notice how his sharingan deactivates. It only deactivates when the user wants it too or when you have low chakra.

Acutally the Dialog goes like this

Kisame: "Why are we retreating? couldn't you..."
Itachi: "There's no need to worry about Naruto in his present state. Also, for the being I have to rest somewhere."
Itachi: "I was foolishly forced into using Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu."

then his sharingan deactivates....so I would think it's safe to say the reason behind this is that he is too low on chakra. He said he needs to rest for the time being and then his sharingan deactivates....what could be the other reasoning behind that...

Last edited by Sabaku no Gaara; 2004-09-14 at 14:45.
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Old 2004-09-14, 17:38   Link #346
Nub.Itachi
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well it could be pycological i mean realistically speaking in his head he has been up with out sleep for about 4 or 5 days.. u ask how i get this? well simply this his moon light jutsu is 72 hours of pain which he has to endure as well the time there he has to spend to this is difficult u know how hard it is to stay up that long i mean come it its not easy.. not to mention he uses it TWICE talk about mind strain there I cant hardly stay up 2 days straight much less 5 days.. another possiblity is its straining his eyes who knows, but to say its low chakra level is kinda well... absurd since he is comparable to the sannins i highly doubt that 3 jutsu's is going to put him at a low chakra lvl.. I mean seriously what do u want to do when u get tired.. hmm sleep. maybe thats what he ment, dont just assume that its chakra since it was an awesome jutsu.

and i stoped going from the anime translations since they seem to be more wrong then the manga.. so dl the manga chapter and read it.
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Old 2004-09-14, 18:28   Link #347
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whatever...just keep being biased...it's fun that way!

I don't think all of you Itachi pep-band fanboys are listening.....I think Itachi is probably one of the most talented shinobi EVER. All that I'm trying to say is quit discrediting any of the other shinobi....who have made themselves something. Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Orochimaru, and Tsunade of all powerful ninjas in the manga and the anime. Don't discredit that and don't underestimate it, because if you think that since Itachi is able to break through one of Jiraiya's jutsus, than he is all mighty and powerful.

I will say this once again for like the third time.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN ENOUGH OF JIRAIYA'S CAPABILITIES TO JUDGE HIM ON WHAT KIND OF SHINOBI HE IS!

therefore...arguments like these are totally pointless because we need to see them get serious before we can say who's better.

All we've seen from Jiraiya's arsenal

Spines of the Underworld, Gamabunta, Swamp of the Underworld, Rasengan, and his Esophagus of the Frog attack.

From Itachi's Arsenal

We've seen Bunshin, 72 hours of pain...twice, and his Black Heaven attack (or whatever it's called)

IMO, it's a little to early to start making bets whos better. Therefore, let the story evolve a little before we make judgements.
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Old 2004-09-14, 18:31   Link #348
Hunter
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I don't think that the main problem of the Tsukiyomi is that it costs much chakra, but rather about the necessary concentration.

The concentration to create a world like that must be incredible, and the more times Itachi tortures the mind of someone inside this illusion world, the more time his mind must be concentrated.
Think about it, if Itachi took Kakashi during 3 days, his mind must be inside the Tsukiyomi during 3 days as well.
And if you're exhausted by this gigantic concentration, to create this world once again is increasingly dangerous because you will end up slackening your attention... and snape your own mind inside the world of Tsukiyomi.

His own Genjutsu could torn him out of reality and that could be why he mustn't use it too much.

It's not that I think that the Tsukiyomi doesn't use much chakra, just that it's not why it's dangerous to use it too often, even with 10x more chakra, it wouldn't be possible to use 10x more Tsukiyomi.

When Itachi 'pushed' Sasuke into the world of Tsukiyomi (the day he annihilated their clan) during just few second, he looked just fine after that.
But when he used it to break the mind of Kakashi during days he looked way more tired.
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Old 2004-09-15, 05:01   Link #349
Animizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
When Itachi 'pushed' Sasuke into the world of Tsukiyomi (the day he annihilated their clan) during just few second, he looked just fine after that.But when he used it to break the mind of Kakashi during days he looked way more tired.
Probably because Kakashis sharingan put up more of a fight of some sort.
We could say that with a strong sharingan the Tsukiyomi needs more time to have effect maybe?
Moreover, Kakashi was ready to accept the Tsukiyomi while Sasuke was already emotionally unstable and got beat the shit out of him just a few seconds before.

So extending Hunter's point,
It was less straining for Itachi to use the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke hence he didn't look tired.
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hm....

Last edited by Animizzle; 2004-09-15 at 11:47.
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Old 2004-09-15, 16:12   Link #350
Nub.Itachi
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sabaku no Garaa

whatever...just keep being biased...it's fun that way!
I don't think all of you Itachi pep-band fanboys are listening.....I think Itachi is probably one of the most talented shinobi EVER. All that I'm trying to say is quit discrediting any of the other shinobi....who have made themselves something. Jiraiya, Sarutobi, Orochimaru, and Tsunade of all powerful ninjas in the manga and the anime. Don't discredit that and don't underestimate it, because if you think that since Itachi is able to break through one of Jiraiya's jutsus, than he is all mighty and powerful.
Yes im biased and some sort of PEP-BAND FANBOY because i think that ONE nin is better than a sannin its so wrong and trendy to think that someone could be better than the sannin.. It's called fighting for what i believe and thats that Itachi can beat Jiriaya. no one is going to convince me other wise unless they were to actually fight and Jiriaya won.

Quote:
Originally posted by Sabaku no Garaa

I will say this once again for like the third time. WE HAVE NOT SEEN ENOUGH OF JIRAIYA'S CAPABILITIES TO JUDGE HIM ON WHAT KIND OF SHINOBI HE IS! therefore...arguments like these are totally pointless because we need to see them get serious before we can say who's better.
and i will say this once again for like the third time also. WE HAVE NOT SEEN ENOUGH OF ITACHI's CAPABILITIES TO JUDGE HIM ON WHAT KIND OF SHINOBI HE IS! and arguments like these have relevents.. we have enough information to make educated descisions on what we know, that is Oro is afraid of Itachi and admits that he is even stronger, Jiriaya was TOTALLY suprised that Itachi blasted through his frog jutsu with fire which shouldn't be possible since the frog breathes fire, and that with Oro having no arms and Jiriaya being druged and being able to use his jutsu's, they were basically on par, and Oro even slamed Jiriaya into the ground hard enough to give him enough time to attack naruto and tsunade.(almost killing Tsunade, if she didn't have her BADASS regen technique)

Also in the manga when they are talking about naruto and jiriaya, the manga translation goes something like this.

Kisame - "You can fight how and where you want, but i dont know... The time is worng"
Itachi - "Ah to meet those two and kill them. It's a good place to fight. So they can't increase the number of people they have."
Kisame - "It was good that we found him at the ramen shop, but he is protected by one of the legendary 3 ninjas. That guy might be a match for the #1 leaf and one of the mist's seven strongest."
Itachi - "Ah, but..."
Kisame - "......"
Itachi - "It's said that every stong ninja has a weak point."

This doesn't sound like they are too worried about him just that he might cause a problem, like Itachi said to kisame when they were fighting kakashi and the other jounins in Konoha. Itachi - " Remember why were are here in the first place(kisame).... Getting injured is not the reason we came here!"

If he would have fought with Jiriaya head on in the hallway there is no doubt about it. He would have gotten injured. You don't go up against one of the 3 no matter how strong you are and come out absolutly fine on the other side.

Another thing we come back to is Oro's good judgments and this is what I would say some more evidence to say that Jiriaya wouldn't be the victor. Simply this Oro know Itachi and Jiriaya very well.

He worked with them both at some point or another, And knows both of there capablities, and still says that Itachi is stronger than he, And being confident going up agianst Sarutobi and Jiriaya both. My guess is that Oro wouldn't fight anyone who he knew he didn't have an advantage against =|> Itachi, but he was confident enough to fight sarutobi and Jiriaya. I dont know about you but that says something.

But even with out that last paragraph, there is still enough evidence supporting the fact that Itachi could most likely take Jiriaya, Its not being a PEP-BAND FANBOY its comensense.
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Old 2004-09-15, 16:38   Link #351
Bodash
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One thing to note is that Oro will never beleive that Jiriaya is stronger than he is, whether it's true or not, nor would he be afraid of fighting him ever. Another thing to note is that Oro's fighting style and Jiriaya is very different. It's possible for Jiriaya is a far better match for Itachi then Oro.
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Old 2004-09-15, 17:24   Link #352
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
Probably because Kakashis sharingan put up more of a fight of some sort.
We could say that with a strong sharingan the Tsukiyomi needs more time to have effect maybe?
I think so, as Itachi said if you have the Sharingan some resistance can be made against the Mangekyou Sharingani.
A non-Sharingan user could be almost defenceless against it once he's taken into the world of Tsukiyomi, a Sharingan user could resist a little depending of his strength and another Mangekyou Sharingan user could resist to it equally.

Actually Kisame and Kakashi himself were surprised that he was still alive after being stricken by the Tsukiyomi.
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Old 2004-09-15, 22:02   Link #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
Yes im biased and some sort of PEP-BAND FANBOY because i think that ONE nin is better than a sannin its so wrong and trendy to think that someone could be better than the sannin.. It's called fighting for what i believe and thats that Itachi can beat Jiriaya. no one is going to convince me other wise unless they were to actually fight and Jiriaya won.



and i will say this once again for like the third time also. WE HAVE NOT SEEN ENOUGH OF ITACHI's CAPABILITIES TO JUDGE HIM ON WHAT KIND OF SHINOBI HE IS! and arguments like these have relevents.. we have enough information to make educated descisions on what we know, that is Oro is afraid of Itachi and admits that he is even stronger, Jiriaya was TOTALLY suprised that Itachi blasted through his frog jutsu with fire which shouldn't be possible since the frog breathes fire, and that with Oro having no arms and Jiriaya being druged and being able to use his jutsu's, they were basically on par, and Oro even slamed Jiriaya into the ground hard enough to give him enough time to attack naruto and tsunade.(almost killing Tsunade, if she didn't have her BADASS regen technique)

Also in the manga when they are talking about naruto and jiriaya, the manga translation goes something like this.

Kisame - "You can fight how and where you want, but i dont know... The time is worng"
Itachi - "Ah to meet those two and kill them. It's a good place to fight. So they can't increase the number of people they have."
Kisame - "It was good that we found him at the ramen shop, but he is protected by one of the legendary 3 ninjas. That guy might be a match for the #1 leaf and one of the mist's seven strongest."
Itachi - "Ah, but..."
Kisame - "......"
Itachi - "It's said that every stong ninja has a weak point."

This doesn't sound like they are too worried about him just that he might cause a problem, like Itachi said to kisame when they were fighting kakashi and the other jounins in Konoha. Itachi - " Remember why were are here in the first place(kisame).... Getting injured is not the reason we came here!"

If he would have fought with Jiriaya head on in the hallway there is no doubt about it. He would have gotten injured. You don't go up against one of the 3 no matter how strong you are and come out absolutly fine on the other side.

Another thing we come back to is Oro's good judgments and this is what I would say some more evidence to say that Jiriaya wouldn't be the victor. Simply this Oro know Itachi and Jiriaya very well.

He worked with them both at some point or another, And knows both of there capablities, and still says that Itachi is stronger than he, And being confident going up against Sarutobi and Jiriaya both. My guess is that Oro wouldn't fight anyone who he knew he didn't have an advantage against =|> Itachi, but he was confident enough to fight sarutobi and Jiriaya. I dont know about you but that says something.

But even with out that last paragraph, there is still enough evidence supporting the fact that Itachi could most likely take Jiriaya, Its not being a PEP-BAND FANBOY its comensense.
I think theres another version of the manga, the anime subs has a totally different translation too. Im not clear which one is correct, however the one above doesnt make sense as kisame says "ah to meet those 2 and kill them", they dont want to kill Naruto and they want to avoid fighting Jiraiya, thats why they lured him away. Anyways Ive asked a japanese speaking person to confirm for me what was the original translation.

Oro is not afraid of Itachi, he just says Itachi is stronger. Also its not like its been said that oro has even fought Jiraiya ever yet alone recently. He did state he has never fought Tsunade so it could be true for Jir aswell. As for the hallway thing, if it was just Itachi himself its understandable, however it was 2vs1 and Jiraiya had no backup coming so it was totally in Itachi's favour, still they ranned. This brings it back to that manga comment of "good place to meet those 2 and kill them", yet when they do meet they run away.

As for who would win, we dont know Itachi has a summon, we know Jiraiya does. I wonder what will happen if Jiraiya summons 3frogs to fight for him.
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Old 2004-09-15, 23:21   Link #354
Nub.Itachi
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Quote:
Originaly posted by realdeal
clear which one is correct, however the one above doesnt make sense as kisame says "ah to meet those 2 and kill them", they dont want to kill Naruto and they want to avoid fighting Jiraiya, thats why they lured him away. Anyways Ive asked a japanese speaking person to confirm for me what was the original translation.


Oro is not afraid of Itachi, he just says Itachi is stronger. Also its not like its been said that oro has even fought Jiraiya ever yet alone recently. He did state he has never fought Tsunade so it could be true for Jir aswell. As for the hallway thing, if it was just Itachi himself its understandable, however it was 2vs1 and Jiraiya had no backup coming so it was totally in Itachi's favour, still they ranned. This brings it back to that manga comment of "good place to meet those 2 and kill them", yet when they do meet they run away.


As for who would win, we dont know Itachi has a summon, we know Jiraiya does. I wonder what will happen if Jiraiya summons 3frogs to fight for him.
If you have a japanese speaking friend then ask him to translate something that maters for us.. its pretty clear that they did a good job with the Oro thinking Itachi is stronger than him i think we all know that, but the real issue is if Kisame and Itachi are talking about naruto or jiriaya.. its in Episode 83 when they are on the cliff.

Have him translate that and then get back to me.

And if you keep up with ur anime in episode's like 95-96 jiriaya and oro fight, so try rewatching it cause its pretty impossible to miss.

and in the hallway it wasnt 2v1, realistically speaking it was 3 v 2 with gai on the way.. do the math Jiriaya+Naruto+Sasuke = 3 + Gai shortly after the fight would start.. im pretty sure the smartest move itachi has made yet was running from taht fight k thanx.
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Old 2004-09-15, 23:29   Link #355
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So Itachi and Kisame are afraid of Sasuke who's blacked out and naruto who has no chakra? The fight started, Itachi being the genius he is decided to use Mange on Sasuke(which drained his chakra) when Jiraiya was right there.

If anything they are extra burden on Jiraiya because he has to defend himself AND them(naruto+sasuke).
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Old 2004-09-15, 23:38   Link #356
Nub.Itachi
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Quote:
originaly posted by snarl
So Itachi and Kisame are afraid of Sasuke who's blacked out and naruto who has no chakra? The fight started, Itachi being the genius he is decided to use Mange on Sasuke(which drained his chakra) when Jiraiya was right there.

If anything they are extra burden on Jiraiya because he has to defend himself AND them(naruto+sasuke).
First off Jiriaya wouldn't have to worrie about protecting sasuke.. since Itachi obviously wants him alive for a challenge later on in the series.. and as far as naruto goes.. once itachi starts smaking him around.. kyubi will start to unleash its wrath, which is happening in the manga atm.. I think kyubi is something to worrie about even though its in naruto it can still do damage, plus like I said, couple seconds after they fight would have started Gai would have showed up which = more trouble. Itachi is trying to aviod a fight.
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Old 2004-09-16, 00:00   Link #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
First off Jiriaya wouldn't have to worrie about protecting sasuke.. since Itachi obviously wants him alive for a challenge later on in the series.. and as far as naruto goes.. once itachi starts smaking him around.. kyubi will start to unleash its wrath, which is happening in the manga atm.. I think kyubi is something to worrie about even though its in naruto it can still do damage, plus like I said, couple seconds after they fight would have started Gai would have showed up which = more trouble. Itachi is trying to aviod a fight.
next time...spoiler tab would be good
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Old 2004-09-16, 00:00   Link #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
First off Jiriaya wouldn't have to worrie about protecting sasuke.. since Itachi obviously wants him alive for a challenge later on in the series.. and as far as naruto goes.. once itachi starts smaking him around.. kyubi will start to unleash its wrath, which is happening in the manga atm.. I think kyubi is something to worrie about even though its in naruto it can still do damage, plus like I said, couple seconds after they fight would have started Gai would have showed up which = more trouble. Itachi is trying to aviod a fight.
Yes, because it was made completely obvious to Jiraiya that Itachi wasn't going to kill Sasuke, right...?

Naruto already tried using Kyuubi's chakra. Kisame's sword took it.

Itachi didn't know that Gai was on his way.
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Old 2004-09-16, 09:17   Link #359
Nub.Itachi
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Quote:
originaly posted by Sabaku no Garaa

next time...spoiler tab would be good
Look at the title of thread, its a manga thread its not my fault if you dont keep up to speed in the manga. I don't see the point in putting something on a spoiler tag if the manga is out, read it.

Quote:
originally posted by raikage

Yes, because it was made completely obvious to Jiraiya that Itachi wasn't going to kill Sasuke, right...?

Naruto already tried using Kyuubi's chakra. Kisame's sword took it.

Itachi didn't know that Gai was on his way.
Yea Jiriaya pretty much didn't think Itachi was going to kill Sasuke, I mean think about it, if Itachi really wanted to kill Sasuke boom 1 hit its over Sasuke is a B#$*(
but he didn't, and if Jiriaya is as strong as you all make him to be and Itachi as weak as you think him to be then why didn't Jiriaya just end the whole thing there before he started to fight sasuke, i mean im sure a sanin knew that a gennin wasnt going to take an S-rank, and as far as naruto's kyubi goes, he prolly could have pulled ALOT more chakra from the fox than he did... i doubt Kisame wiped away all of kyubi's power with just a whoosh of his sword.
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Old 2004-09-16, 10:25   Link #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi
Yea Jiriaya pretty much didn't think Itachi was going to kill Sasuke, I mean think about it, if Itachi really wanted to kill Sasuke boom 1 hit its over Sasuke is a B#$*(
but he didn't, and if Jiriaya is as strong as you all make him to be and Itachi as weak as you think him to be then why didn't Jiriaya just end the whole thing there before he started to fight sasuke, i mean im sure a sanin knew that a gennin wasnt going to take an S-rank, and as far as naruto's kyubi goes, he prolly could have pulled ALOT more chakra from the fox than he did... i doubt Kisame wiped away all of kyubi's power with just a whoosh of his sword.
Jiraiya most probably does not know the abilities of Kisame and Itachi. Therefore, moving without thinking would have caused unwanted consequences. Jiraiya's first priority was to protect Naruto who was the target of these two ciriminals. If he would have made a move to save Sasuke, whether it is quick or not might not matter, then Naruto would have been killed. Hence, imo, he played with their rules to buy some time.

For Kisame's sword, first we have no idea on how much chakra it can suck. Second, even though the chakra that was transferred from Kyuubi to Naruto's chakra system cannot be comparable to what Kyuubi can offer at max, at that time, this was all Naruto could extract. And we don't know when Naruto will extract an amount of Chakra that cannot be sucked by Kisame's sword. Also, all we have observed until this moment is Naruto, when he has control over his body, can extract chakra from Kyuubi in discrete amounts, whereas when Kyuubi is in control chakra seems to flow from Kyuubi to Naruto's system continuously. Hence, if his visible chakra is sucked by Kisame's sword, he will require some time to extract more, which means he will be vulnerable to attacks during that time. Also, if he is able to extract again, Kisame's sword can suck that amount too, if the amount extracted is similar to the previous amount extracted. So, in short, unless Naruto can extract an amount that is exceeding what Kisame's sword can suck, Naruto's chakra should be sucked by Kisame's sword every time he attempts to extract Kyuubi's chakra.
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