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View Poll Results: Who is the ultimate shinobi?
The 1st 24 5.99%
The 2nd 3 0.75%
Sarutobi 117 29.18%
The 4th 119 29.68%
Jiraiya 27 6.73%
Orochimaru 10 2.49%
Tsunde 4 1.00%
Itachi 73 18.20%
Other...[Please State Who] 24 5.99%
Voters: 401. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-05-23, 09:23   Link #81
Chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho


Yeah,you're right it is fun.

But,i just found it funny,that we people are argueing(?) about something which Kishimoto-san can change at the merest flick of his finger!!
Yes We don't know what he got on his mind :P Maybe Jiraiya starts to like boys and the same goes for Itachi and they adopt two children! I would have laughed for a week if this happend thought :P
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Old 2004-05-23, 09:41   Link #82
raikage
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It's not that Itachi's not strong, it's just that I don't think he's as strong as Itachi fanboys make him out to be.

Is he stronger than Oro? Oro thinks so...after all, he's a jutsu-whore and who would be a worse opponent for a jutsu-whore than a Sharingan master?

Is he stronger than Jiraiya? *shrugs* We haven't seen enough of him to know, so...who knows? Personally, I don't think he's QUITE at Jiraiya's capabilties - but being not quite Jiraiya means you're still better than 80-90% of the ninja population - so what's wrong with that?
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Old 2004-05-23, 10:38   Link #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
Read Naruo Manga Vol.16 again realdeal'
This time read it nice and slow.
On the anime translation I have Gai says "there is another way to move but no time to explain". For me that means another way other than watching the feet. On another manga translation I had it was something like "there is another way". On the new manga its "there is a method to it".

All seems to be different translations to me, I just went with the ones I remember most.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qabalabard
personally i don't have a favorite, but come on. itachi's so cookie cutter it's ridiculous. LOOK AT ME. I'M ALL DARK AND MYSTERIOUS. LOOK AT ME I DON'T SMILE. WOW I'M POWERFUL. WOW I HAVE THE PERSONALITY OF A ROCK THAT HASN'T BEEN TOUCHED IN 20 YEARS.
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Old 2004-05-23, 10:52   Link #84
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raikage, see, I don't care if others think Jiraiya is stronger by opinion (hell, I even share it!); it's when that they try to justify it with this absurd notion of "fear" that I simply cannot agree with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epyon96
Here's the problem with this argument. There are quite a lot of moves that if you get hit once full bast, it's over.
Here's the thing; all those moves are either extremely closed-range or single-target based whereas the limit to the gaze of an eye is relatively wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
Umm,im not sure if you were joking about the if it were a joke(*really i couldnt' tell.*)
Of course I was. >_>;;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
If it were Itachis' Tsukiyonami(*Is it just me or is Tsukiyonami hard to spell?Ne?*)
No, it's rather easy for me. Tsuki = moon, yomi = read...MoonRead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
then,what happened to the rest of the Uchiha's bodies?
And if it were Itachis' trick,then wouldnt the rest of the Uchiha be alive?
Umm, that's because Tsukiyomi can kill or give the victims severe mental breakdowns. Even if the victims survive it, Itachi can easily finish them off afterwards. Itachi spared Kakashi out of mercy (?) and Sasuke because "the fruit is not ripe for picking" yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasho
=There are people who like Itachi as a character?!Unreal!!
Heh, Itachi is the definition of a poker-face; he has that same facial expression everytime we see him. I like that. ^_^
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:13   Link #85
nh1
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Originally Posted by Nine Devil
Wow Sarcasteak bravo mate you are the only one defending Itachi here and shutting everybody up. Good job mate, but the funny thing is they won't understand it,they just don't get it that Itachi is stronger than Jiraiya. Heck Itachi is not even in his prime.
What the...? You can't convince other people with mere opinions/statements! A lot of people here disagree that Itachi is God (I wonder why?). Actually: Sharingan users = Gods, what's the point in being strong if you haven't got the Sharingan, all strong people tremble before a Sharingan user, basically because they have the Sharingan! Sharingan should be required in order to be a ninja because obviously, there is nothing that can beat a Sharingan user! Oh, right... We were talking Itachi only... Basically, what he has done is: Fully developed his Sharingan ... ? Where did the rest go?
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:13   Link #86
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Havent read through the whole tread, so ppl donít be mad with me if I repeat this. From the manga series, and I donít know if i misinterpret this, but I think thereís someone else stronger than itachi (who you think is pretty strong).

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:27   Link #87
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disfunctional
Havent read through the whole tread, so ppl donít be mad with me if I repeat this. From the manga series, and I donít know if i misinterpret this, but I think thereís someone else stronger than itachi (who you think is pretty strong).

uchiha itachi: To abduct naruto. Those were the orders given to us by the higher echelons of our organisation, "akatsuki".
Allow me to correct your misinterpretation--he said something along the lines of "nabbing Naruto is the utmost order given by our organization the [Akatsuki]." We are told by Jiraiya that Akatsuki is an "organization consisted of eight members (formerly nine) mostly S-ranked criminals," not an "organization consisted of eight members mostly S-ranked criminals following an higher order from some country or another organization."

Knowing so little, from all we know, Akatsuki is probably a fairly peer-based organization with one specific "leader" or two who calls the shots, but because the group is so tightly-knit, the members probably have a lot more weight on their inputs and opinions; thus orders and missions are more flexible. This is just my personal interpretation, of course.

Now, it was the entire organization's decision that securing the Kyuubi chakra source was important, but was the decision made with the assumption that someone like Jiraiya would've been invovled? No. It was simply "shark and weasel--you two infiltrate the Hidden Leaf, nab Naruto, and run back home. Sharky, you get to kill a few people if you want, but Itachi please bring back some green tea" or something like that. Had they known beforehand AND Itachi still retreated, then yes, he didn't do his job, but such is not the case. I'll put it this way: do you think any of the other members or the leader(s) of this group will blame Itachi and Kisame for retreating? Disappointed, probably. Extremely disappointed, perhaps. But if they are so badass, why not track down Jiraiya and beat him senseless? That is simply not a way "ninjas" should fight, and definitely not the best course of action for such a TINY criminal organization; losing a single member might be too much of a risk.

Oh, and just to humor your interpretation, people giving orders from above aren't necessarily "stronger." Since the Leaf's high council and feudal lords make the decisions, they must be stronger than Kakashi and Gai and everyone else? Or Gato is stronger than Zabuza? That is simply illogical.
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Last edited by sarcasteak; 2004-05-23 at 11:35. Reason: rewording, restructuring
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:43   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
I'm really tired of this silly argument so I'll attempt to end it once and for all; if you guys still think anyone who retreats or doesn't finish people off is scared retarded...then more power to you.

"Strength" doesn't always determine the outcome of the battle. A slightly weaker opponent can easily defeat a stronger one in the right condition. He does not fear the stronger one at all for he knows he has a chance of winning. He proceeds with caution and strikes when favorable. However, if the situation actually starts off worse for the weaker one, then why take the risk? I'm not going to determine whether Itachi or Jiraiya is stronger (I actually said over and over again in the past that Jiraiya is stronger overall, but Itachi has triumph cards that tip things to his favor); I'm merely arguing that even if Jiraiya is superior and stronger, Itachi did not retreat out of fear but out of caution. There's a huge difference.

And as for not finishing people off or not dealing the final blow...my goodness, look at Kabuto vs Naruto? Why did he not just kill Naruto straight up? What a retard! Oro and Jiraiya...why were they just standing there on the snake instead of duking it out and beating each other senseless? Retards...these people should be cold-blooded and just kill kill kill.



Oh by the way, no one actually called Itachi a God; we simply don't know any loopholes or counter to Tsukiyomi if it hits. You can talk all you want about ways to avoid it, but once it hits, how can one counter? A world completely controlled by the user's will...and this user being the unmoving, emotionless Itachi. Since I simply have been told or shown of any counter, "undefeatable" is the only conclusion I can draw upon...or should I just make up a bunch of silly theories that have no basis? Yah, if you think about how hawt Itachi is while in the world of Tsukiyomi...you might actually enjoy the process and recover 25% chakra, yay-yay!

Now, to your point. If Sasuke actually gained the power to surpass Itachi, it most likely might be a spurt-of-moment thing. But if could maintain that level of ability and mastery of the Mangekyo Sharingan, then yes, we should start praising him as the poor man's version of Itachi--Sasuke is too emotional, cares too much about pride, stubborn, not as experienced, not as fast, and not as quick with handseals--but hey, all those things I just mentioned don't really matter since ninja battles are about nothing but strength vs strength, right?
Whoa, you need some fresh air man. My first comment was a joke, hence the smilie. Didn't think you'd take it so personallly.

And my comment about Sasuke being God, did not mean Itachi was a God. All I'm saying is, if those two are the only ones that can defeat the mange sharingan, and one of them should die, the other one would become a God becauce no one will be able to counter it.

However, considering this show is called Naruto, I doubt that the author will make the mange sharingan such a high level technique that even Naruto will not be able to defeat and from that I can conclude there are ways of countering the mange sharingan without being a sharingan user yourself.
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:50   Link #89
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairydolphin
Whoa, you need some fresh air man. My first comment was a joke, hence the smilie. Didn't think you'd take it so personallly.
Ehh...I didn't really take it personally (I still love ya ^_^;; )...I was more of addressing everyone in this thread, not just you. If you feel sorry for me for unable to tell that comment was a joke, blame it on all these people who says it with all seriousness AND include smilies. >_<

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairydolphin
And my comment about Sasuke being God, did not mean Itachi was a God. All I'm saying is, if those two are the only ones that can defeat the mange sharingan, and one of them should die, the other one would become a God becauce no one will be able to counter it.
Yes, well, that's why I mentioned all those other advantages Itachi has--even if Sasuke has Mangekyo Sharingan, he'll die before he gets to pull it off on a strong opponent. But in Itachi's case it's much different. It is one of his triumph cards, but even without it he is above mere jounin-level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairydolphin
However, considering this show is called Naruto,
PAUSE. Rewind. Poor logic. So as long as the title of the show is named after the main character, he will be able to counter even the most deadly techniques? Darn it, poor Luffy! Poor Gon! >_<
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:52   Link #90
ApoLLon
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man, i wonder why jiraiya is always underestimated. Because of Oro's words or his uncoolness? or both? even itachi's words didnt provide him respect how much he deserved.
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:52   Link #91
nh1
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Basically, what the Itachi fanboys are saying is: Take a normal kid, give him a fully developed Sharingan (Mangekyo) and he's not even rivaling with the strongest people in the world, he owns them! Sharingan > Other potential, which can be interpreted this way: Sharingan > All / Sharingan = God...

Before we can make any conclusions, Kishimoto needs to compare the Uchiha abilities to others abilities...
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:55   Link #92
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
Basically, what the Itachi fanboys are saying is: Take a normal kid, give him a fully developed Sharingan (Mangekyo) and he's not even rivaling with the strongest people in the world, he owns them! Sharingan > Other potential, which can be interpreted this way: Sharingan > All / Sharingan = God...
I shall paraphrase myself yet again since basically anti-Itachi fanboys have selective memory:

Quote:
Yes, well, that's why I mentioned all those other advantages Itachi has--even if Sasuke has Mangekyo Sharingan, he'll die before he gets to pull it off on a strong opponent. But in Itachi's case it's much different. It is one of his triumph cards, but even without it he is above mere jounin-level.
Quote:
If Sasuke actually gained the power to surpass Itachi, it most likely might be a spurt-of-moment thing. But if could maintain that level of ability and mastery of the Mangekyo Sharingan, then yes, we should start praising him as the poor man's version of Itachi--Sasuke is too emotional, cares too much about pride, stubborn, not as experienced, not as fast, and not as quick with handseals--but hey, all those things I just mentioned don't really matter since ninja battles are about nothing but strength vs strength, jutsu vs jutsu, right?
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Old 2004-05-23, 11:59   Link #93
nh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Yes, well, that's why I mentioned all those other advantages Itachi has--even if Sasuke has Mangekyo Sharingan, he'll die before he gets to pull it off on a strong opponent. But in Itachi's case it's much different. It is one of his triumph cards, but even without it he is above mere jounin-level.
We don't know shiet about Itachi, we know he messed up Kakashi and we know the Mangekyo Sharingan of an Uchiha is better than a Sharingan of someone not belonging to the Uchiha clan. I don't see why people are making the conclusions: Itachi > Jiraiya!
Also, for your information: To me, Itachi is the coolest person in the whole series and I'm such a fan, but I don't see how you all can be so sure about your assumptions.
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:04   Link #94
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
We don't know shiet about Itachi, we know he messed up Kakashi and we know the Mangekyo Sharingan of an Uchiha is better than a Sharingan of someone not belonging to the Uchiha clan. I don't see why people are making the conclusions: Itachi > Jiraiya!
You know what's really sad? I actually believe Jiraiya > Itachi! No, no, seriously. I simply don't care if anyone wants to say Jiraiya is stronger blah blah blah as long as they don't make these absurd arguments in attempt to justify their view.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
Also, for your information: To me, Itachi is the coolest person in the whole series and I'm such a fan, but I don't see how you all can be so sure about your assumptions.
Which assumptions? That he is above jounin-level? Perhaps because he was too fast for even Kakashi and Kurenai? And that I actually find the Sharingan to be pretty damn useful? ^_^;;
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:06   Link #95
nh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
You know what's really sad? I actually believe Jiraiya > Itachi! No, no, seriously. I simply don't care if anyone wants to say Jiraiya is stronger blah blah blah as long as they don't make these absurd arguments in attempt to justify their view.
Good for you! Then stop argueing with me, would you?
Quote:
Which assumptions?
That he's stronger than Jirayia! And by the way, Kakashi would've put up a better fight without Kurenai there
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:14   Link #96
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
Good for you! Then stop argueing with me, would you?

That he's stronger than Jirayia!
Am I arguing that Itachi is stronger than Jiraiya in this thread? I simply said Itachi retreated out of caution, not "fear" like Jiraiya-fanboys like to believe. And I argued with you because you tried to use that "oh if you think Mangekyo is so hawt you must think he's god" rebuttal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
And by the way, Kakashi would've put up a better fight without Kurenai there
True, but in the end Itachi will still bust out his Tsukiyomi and Kakashi will still foolishly try to resist it.

Judging from his speed and calmness in judgement, I find him to be above mere jounin-level even without Mangekyo Sharingan. Add Sharingan to the mix...he might be pretty darn strong; otherwise why would someone so confident in his power and enjoy fighting like Kisame actually listen to and respect everything said by Itachi, this 17-year-old brat? Yes, they were at Itachi's home turf, but I find genuine respect from Kisame's tone.
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:21   Link #97
Lazy Shikamaru
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Alright guys, break it up... you too tree boy.

j/k. But seriously, Jiraiya > Itachi, but Jiraiya would lose an arm or something.
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:44   Link #98
Retta
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i thnk its pretty obvious that we all will say 4th after some time. because, we havent seen much of the 4th in his prim..which was after Oro left. Oro isnt much stronger then Jiraiya, and the 4th mange to do something what not even Sarutobi manage to do.

anyway, in their prime status...Naruto will kick ass.

btw, does anyone know something about the uzumaki clan? the greatest of all clans. they landed on earth..when a metriod clashed upon mt fuji. they had a tail..and when the full moon was shown, they showed the true selfs!!!!!! spooky, indeed.
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Old 2004-05-23, 12:50   Link #99
Lazy Shikamaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retta
i thnk its pretty obvious that we all will say 4th after some time. because, we havent seen much of the 4th in his prim..which was after Oro left. Oro isnt much stronger then Jiraiya, and the 4th mange to do something what not even Sarutobi manage to do.

anyway, in their prime status...Naruto will kick ass.

btw, does anyone know something about the uzumaki clan? the greatest of all clans. they landed on earth..when a metriod clashed upon mt fuji. they had a tail..and when the full moon was shown, they showed the true selfs!!!!!! spooky, indeed.
oh my god... you need to be banned for that, even though i'm joking, that's pretty much taboo for anyone's eyes!!!! LOL
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Old 2004-05-23, 13:11   Link #100
lost4wordz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retta
i thnk its pretty obvious that we all will say 4th after some time. because, we havent seen much of the 4th in his prim..which was after Oro left. Oro isnt much stronger then Jiraiya, and the 4th mange to do something what not even Sarutobi manage to do.

anyway, in their prime status...Naruto will kick ass.

btw, does anyone know something about the uzumaki clan? the greatest of all clans. they landed on earth..when a metriod clashed upon mt fuji. they had a tail..and when the full moon was shown, they showed the true selfs!!!!!! spooky, indeed.
u have such a creative mind..... is there even a uzumaki clan to begin with?
we din hear of them at all
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