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Old 2008-05-22, 08:47   Link #1841
MihawkXGP
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I'm so delighted Man Utd won. It was heart-in-the-mouth stuff. That penalty shoot-out was hard to watch, but i did it. When Terry came up to take the penalty, i thought it was all over.

I suppose we were fortunate that he slipped (and that it was raining). Chelsea were great, they took us all the way. Neither side deserved to loose, but i'm glad we came out on Top. We did it for the Busby babes and the Munich Air Crash survivors who must have been very proud of the guys.
I'm pleased for Ryan too, that he broke Sir Bobby's appearance record on this game. No-one deserves it more. What a Legend.
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:09   Link #1842
kayote
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i was so sad. being a CHELSEA fan i was watching and i had my heart in my hands. the game was good and Man Utd probly should have finished us off in the first half but, we came back and had the better second half.

i can accept defeate but, to lose on penalty was heartbreaking. i was so drained and it felt like i had no energy, it was hard to take.

getting all the way there and losing on penalties hurt a lot.
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Last edited by kayote; 2008-05-22 at 11:13. Reason: adding
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Old 2008-05-22, 11:10   Link #1843
Shinndou
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Luckily a big tournament will start in two weeks featuring the top 16 teams of Europe.
And I expect fireworks for that. Man Italy's group is quite the tough one, and we get to face France again. Seriously, how many times do we have to face them in such a short span of time?
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Old 2008-05-22, 14:15   Link #1844
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Luckily a big tournament will start in two weeks featuring the top 16 teams of Europe.
Since England didn't qualify, I deliberately ignored Euro 2008
Premiership and the rest of the cups will begin in August again.
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Old 2008-05-22, 14:27   Link #1845
Alleluia_Cone
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Chelsea was silly in how they set-up the penalty takers. Lampard should have gone first and Michael Ballack should have gone fifth. There is no way in hell a German captain would miss a crucial penalty that would have won his team the Champions League. It's in German DNA; you don't miss penalties.
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Old 2008-05-22, 15:43   Link #1846
kayote
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it's not about setting out the penalty takers. 90% of the time it will depend on who wants to take the penalties. than the first 5 are decided, the reason terry went last was probly because he is the weakest amongst the 5 at penalty taking. you need to get a good start and then go on from there. also he is the captain so he could take the glory.

also he did't really miss, he slipped which caused him to miss. but in the end he did miss. Van de Sar was beaten because he went the wrong way.
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Old 2008-05-22, 16:08   Link #1847
Alleluia_Cone
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Originally Posted by kayote View Post
it's not about setting out the penalty takers. 90% of the time it will depend on who wants to take the penalties. than the first 5 are decided, the reason terry went last was probly because he is the weakest amongst the 5 at penalty taking. you need to get a good start and then go on from there. also he is the captain so he could take the glory.

also he did't really miss, he slipped which caused him to miss. but in the end he did miss. Van de Sar was beaten because he went the wrong way.
I agree with your point, but I would have had Lampard take the opening kick. And I would have saved my best penalty taker (i.e. Ballack) for the last kick. Having Terry, a central defender, take the most crucial kick in team history, was not the way to go; whether he is captain or not is silly. I will grant that Chelsea was put in a bad position because of Drogba being sent off. Terry would have never kicked if that had not happened.

As for the kick itself, I actually think him slipping did not affect the miss. I've now seen endless replays of the kick, and the more I look at it, he would have missed regardless of the slip because his trajectory was all off. In fact, had he not slipped, I actually think he would have missed by a wider margin because the shot would have actually been more powered than it was.
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Old 2008-05-22, 16:12   Link #1848
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by kayote View Post
also he did't really miss, he slipped which caused him to miss. but in the end he did miss. Van de Sar was beaten because he went the wrong way.
For what it's worth it he did stop that last one. He was the man of that match though.

Dutch selection for EK 2008:
Ibrahim Afellay, Ryan Babel, Khalid Boulahrouz, Wilfred Bouma, Giovanni van Bronckhorst, Romeo Castelen, Tim de Cler, Urby Emanuelson, Orlando Engelaar, John Heitinga, Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink, Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, Kew Jaliens, Theo Janssen, Nigel de Jong, Danny Koevermans, Jan Kromkamp, Dirk Kuyt, Denny Landzaat, Hedwiges Maduro, Joris Mathijsen, Martijn Meerdink, Mario Melchiot, Ruud van Nistelrooij, Andre Ooijer, Robin van Persie, Arjen Robben, Edwin van der Sar, Stijn Schaars, Clarence Seedorf, David Mendes da Silva, Andwele Slory, Wesley Sneijder, Evander Sno
Civard Sprockel, Maarten Stekelenburg, Henk Timmer, Rafael van der Vaart, Demy de Zeeuw

Last edited by 2H-Dragon; 2008-05-22 at 16:40.
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Old 2008-05-22, 16:23   Link #1849
Alleluia_Cone
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Originally Posted by mcruz1014 View Post
I understand every point that you're making, but I do think that Cruyff was right in his assessment of Ronaldo. As far as talent is concerned, you really can't compare players from earlier eras to the players of today. Today's players have evolved with the game, becoming smarter and more athletic. So from an objective standpoint, yes, Ronaldo is more talented than George Best and Denis Law, and from a soccer standpoint, he is definitely "better", as neither of those two in their primes would be able to keep pace with Ronaldo today.

However, what we can compare is what each of these players has done for their club. Obviously, Law, and Best especially, have cemented the legacy of United for as long as football is played. It will be close to impossible for Ronaldo to top what they have done for the Reds. However, winning Europe and the Premier League in the same season is quite a starting point for what could be, if Ronaldo were to stay at Manchester and keep his current form, a ManU dynasty for the next few years.
Cristiano Ronaldo is really great, but if you saw the original Ronaldo before his meltdown in the 1998 World Cup, especially his one year at Barcelona, I think you pretty much saw the most unstoppable force in football history. During that 1996-1997 season, he played in 49 games and scored 47 times, and his team was nowhere near as talented as the current United side i.e. the opposing teams completely focused in on him.

Also, I think athleticism in soccer can definitely be overtaken by skill. Zidane was never as athletic as C. Ronaldo is at any point in his career, but if I had to win one match, and my life depended on the outcome, I would rather have a 1998-2002 version of Zidane over C. Ronaldo right now.
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Old 2008-05-22, 16:40   Link #1850
kayote
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Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
I agree with your point, but I would have had Lampard take the opening kick. And I would have saved my best penalty taker (i.e. Ballack) for the last kick. Having Terry, a central defender, take the most crucial kick in team history, was not the way to go; whether he is captain or not is silly. I will grant that Chelsea was put in a bad position because of Drogba being sent off. Terry would have never kicked if that had not happened.

As for the kick itself, I actually think him slipping did not affect the miss. I've now seen endless replays of the kick, and the more I look at it, he would have missed regardless of the slip because his trajectory was all off. In fact, had he not slipped, I actually think he would have missed by a wider margin because the shot would have actually been more powered than it was.
i hav't seen the replay and i doubt i will, it would be way to hard to see it again, so i will take your word for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
Cristiano Ronaldo is really great, but if you saw the original Ronaldo before his meltdown in the 1998 World Cup, especially his one year at Barcelona, I think you pretty much saw the most unstoppable force in football history. During that 1996-1997 season, he played in 49 games and scored 47 times, and his team was nowhere near as talented as the current United side i.e. the opposing teams completely focused in on him.

Also, I think athleticism in soccer can definitely be overtaken by skill. Zidane was never as athletic as C. Ronaldo is at any point in his career, but if I had to win one match, and my life depended on the outcome, I would rather have a 1998-2002 version of Zidane over C. Ronaldo right now.
totally agree about original Ronaldo, i saw some of those goals and the whole team would be chasing him, and he would brush them aside. as for Zidane i can't really say because they were different types of players and you can't really compaire thair worth until Cristiano Ronaldo gets a couple more seasons under his belt. also Cristiano Ronaldo is still only 22(i think) and Zidane was in his late 20's by that point.

the type of football the teams played was different back then. then it was more about moving the ball along as well as slower paced. now it is much more about speed and pace. most of the big teams have a lot of speedy players and youngsters that they rely on to make the break for them. also quite a lot of the teams play on the counter-attack now than before.

that's just IMO.
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Old 2008-05-22, 17:32   Link #1851
mcruz1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alleluia_Cone View Post
Cristiano Ronaldo is really great, but if you saw the original Ronaldo before his meltdown in the 1998 World Cup, especially his one year at Barcelona, I think you pretty much saw the most unstoppable force in football history. During that 1996-1997 season, he played in 49 games and scored 47 times, and his team was nowhere near as talented as the current United side i.e. the opposing teams completely focused in on him.

Also, I think athleticism in soccer can definitely be overtaken by skill. Zidane was never as athletic as C. Ronaldo is at any point in his career, but if I had to win one match, and my life depended on the outcome, I would rather have a 1998-2002 version of Zidane over C. Ronaldo right now.
Ugh. I was hoping he wouldn't be brought up.

I totally agree. His pace, his power and ball control, were probably the best ever. Shame his career was ruined by injury and, now, transvestites
See here...

As for Zidane, he's undoubtedly one of the greatest ever, but Cristiano Ronaldo has a few years left in him, so lets all just agree to keep watching and enjoying what he has to to give us for as long as it lasts.
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Old 2008-05-22, 18:59   Link #1852
Alleluia_Cone
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Ronaldo really is one of the enigmas of football. The funny thing is, even though he was never the same after the 1998 World Cup and the two years he missed to injury, he was still good enough to be the best player at the 2002 World Cup, and be the leading scorer in Spain during his years with Real Madrid. It makes one wonder what he would have been if he had never suffered the injuries and had the mental breakdowns that he did.
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Old 2008-05-23, 11:53   Link #1853
Kinny Riddle
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For once I was actually glad I did not watch the game, for reasons obvious if you guess.

That PK at the end was just crazy. First Cristiano Ronaldo bottled what should be the most important PK for him, fortunately for him, Terry bottled an even bigger one. This does raise questions of whether he's able to take the pressure of very big PKs instead of the ordinary league PKs that he has used to prop up his goals tally. Fernando Torres in his 1st season may score less than him, but all goals came from open play. Now if only Liverpool can sort out the bloody mess by those two American goon owners, then there'll be an interesting rivalry between these two players.

Anyway, now that club football (in Europe) is mostly out of the way, us who don't give a damn about the England football team can now concentrate on Euro2008.
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Old 2008-05-23, 12:09   Link #1854
Blaat
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Since England didn't qualify, I deliberately ignored Euro 2008
Oh I know and I'm just rubbing it in that England didn't qualify ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
This does raise questions of whether he's able to take the pressure of very big PKs instead of the ordinary league PKs that he has used to prop up his goals tally.
Well he did score in the Euro and World Cup quarter final PK against England. Anyway I knew he was going to miss with the way he looked, nervous. But a lot of big players bottle up PKs at important moments: Terry, Beckham in 2004. Only Germans are immune to bottling up PKs.
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Old 2008-05-23, 12:20   Link #1855
Alleluia_Cone
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
But a lot of big players bottle up PKs at important moments: Terry, Beckham in 2004. Only Germans are immune to bottling up PKs.
It really is a state of mind issue. If you look at the England national side before a penalty shoot-out, you can tell the players are nervous and convinced that it has nothing to do with effort (that is, if they lose, it was all luck anyway). The German national side, by contrast, never looks nervous. Michael Ballack is a perfect example. I knew he was going to make his penalty kick against Manchester United, there was never any doubt in my mind, and if you saw the United keeper, he knew it as well.
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Old 2008-05-23, 13:38   Link #1856
kayote
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Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
For once I was actually glad I did not watch the game, for reasons obvious if you guess.

That PK at the end was just crazy. First Cristiano Ronaldo bottled what should be the most important PK for him, fortunately for him, Terry bottled an even bigger one.
he did not bottle it, Cristiano Ronaldo missed. this was the biggest occasion of his life. he was playing in the best club comp IMO. frankly if he had not been nervious, that would be a cause for concern. as for Terry, that was unfortunate. but, he still missed.

as for england not getting in the euro, very deservedly so. they needed a kick up the rear to bring them back to earth. all the time when i watch tv commentators talk about how good england are and how the other teams can't compaire that well to them & blah blah....it's good that they did not make it. England have an amazing team but, can't deliver, kind of like Spain and Holland.(i hope the final is Spain vs Holland this Euro)
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Old 2008-05-23, 14:17   Link #1857
Mystique
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Oh I know and I'm just rubbing it in that England didn't qualify ^^
aren't you sweet?
*releases the ninjas*
But hey, as county teams, we can dominate europe, a quarter final with multiple english teams testimonted to that, just as a country, we kinda suck, lol.

But eitherway, enjoy the summer torny~
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Old 2008-05-23, 15:03   Link #1858
Shinndou
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
aren't you sweet?
*releases the ninjas*
But hey, as county teams, we can dominate europe, a quarter final with multiple english teams testimonted to that, just as a country, we kinda suck, lol.

But eitherway, enjoy the summer torny~
That's because english clubs don't seem to invest on your english talents, but they rather pick them from other countries. I don't want to sound conceited or anything like that, but you guys should follow our example or France's one, where the youth system is absolutely one of the priorities in keeping a steady flow of talents between a generation and an other. Just as a generation gets too old there's already a new one with just as good and promising talents that can take on the role. That's why Italy, France, Germany, Holland and so on, even in their high and lows, will always pose a threat. As Baggio retired, a young Del Piero filled in. As Del Piero is now approaching the end of his career, there's Giovinco ready to make his debut with Juventus and be the next promise. Same for Cannavaro who's close to retire, and Chiellini who's already carrying the weight of Juventus' defence on his shoulders.

EPL is without a doubt the best league right now, but if you want to have England to be equally competitive you really need to force the clubs to invest in the development of english talents.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 2008-05-23, 20:03   Link #1859
shelter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinndou View Post
EPL is without a doubt the best league right now, but if you want to have England to be equally competitive you really need to force the clubs to invest in the development of english talents.
Won't disagree on that. Although partly the reason why it's so good & exciting is because all the clubs are bringing in foreign players. I'm waiting for the day when the EPL will reach a balance between their pool of local footballers & foreign talent, so that it'll sort of prove the league can be of more value to the nation's football legacy

Unfortunately that day will probably take a long time to come...like when my country qualifies for the World Cup
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Old 2008-05-25, 06:20   Link #1860
KiNA
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Grant granted his retirement

Not that I, as an Arsenal's fan care or anything
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