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View Poll Results: Lolicon, lolicon. Ok or not?
Yes. it's ok. There's no harm, it's just a drawing. 36 42.35%
Don't care, or I'm on the fence about this. 31 36.47%
No, it's hurtful to anime and/or real life children. 18 21.18%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-10-18, 01:55   Link #201
sarcasteak
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Wasn't she like 17?
The normal Chikage is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
So I wouldn't call her a loli, let's not start to follow 5chan's stupidity in saying anything underage is loli T.T
Obviously you haven't seen her alternate ego!

Spoiler for click:
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Old 2004-10-18, 02:00   Link #202
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Obviously you haven't seen her alternate ego!

Spoiler for click:
Ho I see, that's the ghost of her childhood or something like that, very cute images BTW
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Old 2004-10-18, 02:04   Link #203
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
People outside of Japan still use such old words?

Refreshment of what current Japanese otakus use as an American valley girl would say "you need to like, get with the times"

x bara/yaoi = "gay" (extremely old)
x yaoi = "gay" (extremely old)
o shounen-ai/boys-love = handsome boys loving each other (I refuse to use the word "gay" since it doesn't seem quite right)

As for "yuri/les/shoujo-ai," the typical distinction that is generally accepted (while not entirely always the case) are:

yuri/shoujo-ai - "non-sexual female-female bonding relationship (including love & friendship"
les - "homosexual relationship between two females."

i.e.: Trying calling "Marimite" a "lesbian anime" will definitely piss off hard core "Marimite" fans, since they consider it as "Marimite is not a Lesbian anime/manga/novel!! It is about a beautiful shoujo-ai!!!"


For bonus points:

"What do you call women who like very young boys?"

Example: Yukihiro Ayaka loves Negi Springfield in "Mahou Sensei Negima." Ayaka is a __________ .
oh, so Japanese use boys-love (BL) to describe boy-boy relationship too, I always presumed that as something made up by some chinese so I was reluctant to use it... guess it's time to change

About the difference between yuri (which means lily if I understand correctly) and lesbian, I think I heard some line like "it is more than friendship, but less than sexual love", something like that

I'm still not very sure about the differences between GL and yuri/lily... I think GL suggests more sexual stuff?

Yup, I know some Marimite fans will eat anyone alive who dares to say it's a lesbian/GL anime, it's really scary sometimes From what I gathered, it seems Yamibou is generally accepted as GL anime while Marimite as yuri/lily anime?

Hmm... it seems to me that in western anime forums the term "shouta/shota" is much less famous than "loli"? Also it seems that Kaneda Shoutarou of Tetsujin 28 no longer fits the current "shota image" despite he's the origin of the term... Or just a lot of self-claimed shota-cons I know of don't consider him shota

oh, one question, are lolicons strictly male while shotacons strictly female? I think there can be female lolicons and male shotacons right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf
Hahaha...I know this is sort of off-topic but I must comment on it. It is just hilarious how the two (sub) cultures are just borrowing stuff from each other, and the time lag means that what was "fashionable" in one culture, by the time it gets to another, is already jaded where it's from. To take an inappropriate example, the people living in Chinatown in the U.S. are 100 times more Chinese than the Chinese in China, they live like it's still 1925. XD

By the way, you know a term is getting old if it starts getting into critical analyses. And I am seeing more and more semi-academic papers on anime and manga in the US already.
that's a good point... I myself was also quite surprised when I saw how "non-traditional Chinese" that many Chinese in China had become.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Wasn't she like 17?
So I wouldn't call her a loli, let's not start to follow 5chan's stupidity in saying anything underage is loli T.T
Hmm... I think in general any girl appearing very young/underage can be called loli... right?
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Old 2004-10-18, 02:24   Link #204
Thany
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Hmm... I think in general any girl appearing very young/underage can be called loli... right?
Actually I meant the real Chikage by look, not the 'young child version'.
The images sarcasteak gave are:
Spoiler for Sister Re-Pure spoiler:
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Old 2004-10-18, 03:35   Link #205
Hayami
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Join Date: May 2004
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Thumbs down hello troll?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.A.S
[...]
- haven't even read the thread
- insinuates that "half of us" are doing something illegal

Fits into troll definition?

Hello report button?

( i haven't reported him yet, just asking what everyone thinks )
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Old 2004-10-18, 05:04   Link #206
Nolan Void
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closeminded jackasss'es arent needed, methinks
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Old 2004-10-18, 05:15   Link #207
MakubeX2
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I'll say this....

Base on your assumption there are crackdowns and our IP addresses are clearly avalibale to those in authority.

Will we be even here discussing such topics now ?

Think before you assume and confirm.
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Old 2004-10-18, 07:20   Link #208
Shii
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Ok let's say this, but in this case, if you or anybody underage on the forum were to be a lolicon, would it be right to call them pedophiles?
Sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Because usually the definition of pedophiles is that they need to be an adult.
Well, hopefully people will understand what you are talking about despite that.

Quote:
I wholeheartedly support this. In fact I propose we sell the "animesuki.com" domain and move to "I-like-Japanese-animation.com". Actually we should make a "I-like-animation.com" as well since not everyone agrees that the English usage of the term anime implies the animation in question is Japanese. Next we should all learn a different language, since English will have become one step closer to being dead, static, and useless instead of the wonderful, constantly evolving, damn useful polyglot that it is currently.
"Anime" is in my dictionary, but "lolikon" is not.
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Old 2004-10-18, 07:35   Link #209
Thany
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Quote:
"Anime" is in my dictionary, but "lolikon" is not.
How about 'suki'?
We all know your hate for people who uses Japanese in their language, it can be stupid, though it can be amusing in certain way by trying a guess game, if you get what I mean (still didn't guess?).

Anyway if the lolicon accept to be referenced as what you think, it's all good (just look at The Triad, they shout it and most have interesting signs on their forum :P).
But some just can't accept (I'm in this case and many others are I believe) to be called pedo instead of lolicons.
Usually this word is used for people who dislike lolicon to attack the lolicons themselves.
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Old 2004-10-18, 07:53   Link #210
dreamless
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well, pedophiles are sexually attracted to children, and it's still in question whether lolicons are those specifically sexually attracted to children or just generally just attracted to children for one reason or another...

also it depends on people's different views and definitions of pedophiles... maybe some think pedophile is nothing wrong, while others consider pedophilia a mental illness. you can find various different definitions of the term pedophile on the net, and most of them are derogatory.

Anyway even if you think pedophiles are nothing wrong, there's still the need of distinguishing lolicons from pedophiles. maybe in your general non-derogatory definition, pedophiles are those attracted to children, but lolicons are more aimed towards those who are attracted to children in fictions. thus there's still a difference between the meaning of pedophiles and lolicons. in your case, your definition of pedophilia is describing an act which is a superset of the act described by the definition of lolicon.

But then I think for a lot of others, they have different definitions of pedophilia, so to them pedophilia and lolicon are two completely different sets that has a certain overlapping region.
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Old 2004-10-18, 08:35   Link #211
Akumabito
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After thinking about it, there only seems to be one real difference between loli and pedo. Loli covers the "lighter" end of the spectrum too. Let me try to be clearer, pedo is known as negative and as purely sexual attraction. Loli seems to be slightly more neutral and covers a more emotional attraction as well. Kinda like... I can't think of a good analogy so I will do a crappy one, beer and alcohol free beer, though I'm sure there's plenty who would say alcohol free beer isn't beer it still falls under the broader category of beer.
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:21   Link #212
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
How about 'suki'?
Well, I wouldn't be disagreeing with an English website called "B.D.? J'aime!" or something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
Usually this word is used for people who dislike lolicon to attack the lolicons themselves.
"Lolicon" is Japanese for "pedophilia", there is no distinction between lolicon and pedophilia in the country of origin of 99% of lolicon drawings, and nothing is going to change that.

Check out this article in The Japan Times.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20040427zg.htm
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:47   Link #213
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
"Lolicon" is Japanese for "pedophilia", there is no distinction between lolicon and pedophilia in the country of origin of 99% of lolicon drawings, and nothing is going to change that.
Good for Japan and good for you. Unfortunately, in the English anime community such is not the case...we adapt the terms to our liking, ya know? That's kinda how language works...
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:49   Link #214
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
"Lolicon" is Japanese for "pedophilia", there is no distinction between lolicon and pedophilia in the country of origin of 99% of lolicon drawings, and nothing is going to change that.

Check out this article in The Japan Times.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20040427zg.htm
Well I'm not disagreeing with you on this term.
But still I find the word 'lolicon' to look much better.
Maybe that's because of trolls of 4chan that keep annoying about it.
After a time, you can't bear a word anymore and wouldn't want to call yourself such.

So yes : I agree that both term mean the same by translating from Japanese to English, but no I wouldn't start saying that word, because it blocks me and I believe a lot of others people.

Also, people could think it the bad way too, so that's also a problem.
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:51   Link #215
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Unfortunately, in the English anime community such is not the case...we adapt the terms to our liking, ya know?
Yeah, I know all too well. Kawaii neko hentai baka bento box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
So yes : I agree that both term mean the same by translating from Japanese to English, but no I wouldn't start saying that word, because it blocks me and I believe a lot of others people.
I've no problem with using a euphemism, as long as people know what it means.
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:54   Link #216
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Yeah, I know all too well. Kawaii neko hentai baka bento box.


NEKO MIMI MODE...*NYAA*~~~~
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Old 2004-10-18, 09:58   Link #217
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
"Lolicon" is Japanese for "pedophilia", there is no distinction between lolicon and pedophilia in the country of origin of 99% of lolicon drawings, and nothing is going to change that.

Check out this article in The Japan Times.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/...20040427zg.htm

well, I'm not really sure whether the Japanese ACG community (who invented the terms, and where the terms are mostly used) agree with the definition. The general Japanese public always like to paint the otakus and the ACG community in bad colors. Also that article in Japan Times Online clearly shows that the writer consider pedophilia as something bad, so if you don't consider pedophilia as something bad, then that means you and that article writer have clearly different definitions/ideas of pedophilia, and possibly different ideas about this whole thing.

Anyway I think the only one here that can clear things up about the situation in Japanese ACG community is kj1980, so let's just ask him whether he thinks lolicons equal to pedophiles... whether there is absolutely no difference between the meanings of lolicon and pedophile in Japanese ACG community
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Old 2004-10-18, 10:00   Link #218
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Also that article in Japan Times Online clearly consider pedophilia as something bad, so if you don't consider pedophilia as something bad, then that means you and that article writer have clearly different definitions/ideas of pedophilia.
Ahahahahahahahahahaha I think we have other issues to deal with here before we get to the Japanese words issue
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Old 2004-10-18, 10:04   Link #219
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Ahahahahahahahahahaha I think we have other issues to deal with here before we get to the Japanese words issue
well, if you think the same as the writer of that article, which means you think lolicon = pedophile = something bad, which means you think lolicons are bad, then it's a bit hard to have any further discussions about this matter here so the first question would be, do you think lolicons are bad? If the answer is no, that means you disagree with the writer of that article in this whole issue. If you think the answer is yes... then I'll leave the issue to all those lolicons here...
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Old 2004-10-18, 10:12   Link #220
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
so the first question would be, do you think lolicons are bad?
I don't think "lolicons" are inherently bad. Nor do I think pedophiles are inherently bad. They are people, and I think they can still be good people.

I think lusting after children is bad.
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