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View Poll Results: Lolicon, lolicon. Ok or not?
Yes. it's ok. There's no harm, it's just a drawing. 36 42.35%
Don't care, or I'm on the fence about this. 31 36.47%
No, it's hurtful to anime and/or real life children. 18 21.18%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-06-01, 16:03   Link #21
NoSanninWa
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What is "anego"?
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There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.
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Old 2004-06-01, 16:26   Link #22
dreamless
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
What is "anego"?
big sister
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:02   Link #23
omaren
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um...i'm reallly dumb...but what's an "uke"?
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:21   Link #24
dreamless
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"uke"? you mean the term that's mostly used in sexual situations? it means the passive one in a sexual situation, the "receiver" (uke) as opposed to the "aggressor" (seme). most frequently seen in hentai/dojin/yaoi/yuri discussions...
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:23   Link #25
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaren
um...i'm reallly dumb...but what's an "uke"?
antonym of "seme"

Literally, "uke" means "to receive/to take" and "seme" means "to take the offensive"

In boys-love terms, this will then mean:
"uke" - the receiving end of the homosexual intercourse
"seme" - the person doing the offensive end of the homosexual intercourse

In doujin terminology, these are usually written as "A x B" in which it is a boys-love sexual coupling in which A is the "seme" and B is the "uke." The relationship on who is on the "uke" end and the "seme" gets into a heated debated among hard-core female boys-love fans who get into such arguments as:

"Why is it 'Cloud x Sephiroth,' that is just so wrong! Anyone in their right mind knows it is 'Sephiroth x Cloud' "

etc. etc...
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:34   Link #26
omaren
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gawd..you guys are so smart... want to teach me more terms? I'm so serious..i'm really dumb...is there a real definetion for hentai? what's the difference between hentai and ecchi?? @_@
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Old 2004-06-01, 19:27   Link #27
mantidor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omaren
gawd..you guys are so smart... want to teach me more terms? I'm so serious..i'm really dumb...is there a real definetion for hentai? what's the difference between hentai and ecchi?? @_@
See? thats why we need a shounen/shoujo ai forum for this things , did the mods ruled out the idea completly?

As far as I know, Hentai is nudity, while ecchi is shots of pantys, bras etc.
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Old 2004-06-01, 20:11   Link #28
dreamless
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in the sense of the words themselves, hentai is pervert, ecchi is lewd.

in terms of anime, comic and games, I think hentai = sex, ecchi = fanservice.
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Old 2004-06-02, 01:23   Link #29
Prince of Chronics
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so what does all this discussion have to do with games?
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Old 2004-06-02, 02:13   Link #30
Kyuven
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Originally Posted by Prince of Chronics
so what does all this discussion have to do with games?
well, where else would it belong?
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Old 2004-06-02, 02:38   Link #31
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince of Chronics
so what does all this discussion have to do with games?
If you had read my post you would know
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Old 2004-06-02, 05:23   Link #32
AnAlPedoFileMan
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odd thread... seems misplaced...

all this loli-talk has me wondering about sum animes ive seen before...

also isnt a lolita complex sumwhere along the lines of sum mental disorder??
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Old 2004-06-02, 08:22   Link #33
omaren
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Gosh! I’m learning a lot!! XD I agree…there should be a shounen/shoujo ai forum! ^^;;
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Old 2004-06-02, 09:27   Link #34
dreamless
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Originally Posted by AnAlPedoFileMan
odd thread... seems misplaced...

all this loli-talk has me wondering about sum animes ive seen before...

also isnt a lolita complex sumwhere along the lines of sum mental disorder??
well, lolita complex is a mental disorder, but lolicon in the anime comic and game world is not... sure the word "loli" comes from lolita, and the word "lolicon" comes from lolita complex, but now the meanings have become much different. I doubt anyone who watch animes and read the novel lolita would think Lolita the character in the novel is a loli by the anime definition... As I said before, I think the term loli is now defined by Rei Ayanami, Ruri Hoshino, Lain, Kirika, etc. etc. rather than the novel lolita.
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Old 2004-06-02, 11:23   Link #35
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, lolita complex is a mental disorder, but lolicon in the anime comic and game world is not... sure the word "loli" comes from lolita, and the word "lolicon" comes from lolita complex, but now the meanings have become much different. I doubt anyone who watch animes and read the novel lolita would think Lolita the character in the novel is a loli by the anime definition... As I said before, I think the term loli is now defined by Rei Ayanami, Ruri Hoshino, Lain, Kirika, etc. etc. rather than the novel lolita.
As far as I know, loli would be more like designed characters of 12 and under (well that's at least what 4chan says), so Rei wouldn't be considered to be a loli.
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Old 2004-06-02, 12:28   Link #36
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, lolita complex is a mental disorder, but lolicon in the anime comic and game world is not... sure the word "loli" comes from lolita, and the word "lolicon" comes from lolita complex, but now the meanings have become much different. I doubt anyone who watch animes and read the novel lolita would think Lolita the character in the novel is a loli by the anime definition... As I said before, I think the term loli is now defined by Rei Ayanami, Ruri Hoshino, Lain, Kirika, etc. etc. rather than the novel lolita.
Ok. I think I'm going to be flamed for my opinion on this, but anyway...

I think there's a connection, or at least a reinterpretation of the lolita complex into anime and manga. The main character of Nabokov's novel (forgot his name) has an attraction towards the quality of feminine youth caught in withheld time. In anime and manga, the same can be said to be true, wherein you have female characters who possess both the qualities of a prepubecent girl (youthful, cute, etc.) and a mature woman. (personality and sexual attractiveness for some) Thus, we have characters who are "supposed" to be 18, or we have high school girls who look younger than they're supposed to be. When it comes to anime and manga, the fascination towards loli-inspired characters usually has a more innocent and playful portrayal--cheerfulness, quirky personalities, cuteness, etc. I say "usually" because lolicon isn't exempt from the genre of hentai titles or ero games.

I'm not saying they're the same. (The text of the novel, which is damn well-written btw, isn't merely playful about the idea at all. It serves no moral purpose, yet it's got wit.) There's just a relation somewhere between "lolicon" and "lolita complex" that allows them to be compared and contrasted from one another--all at the same time.

After all before Nabokov's book, Lolita was just an ordinary name.
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Old 2004-06-02, 12:28   Link #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
As far as I know, lolikon would be more like designing characters of 12 and under (well that's at least what 4chan says), so Rei wouldn't be considered to be a lolicon character.
I think loli in the anime sense has little to do with real age... it's more of an appearance and personality thing than age. Reiha in the Miyu series could be thousands of years old but she's still considered a loli.

Quote:
In anime and manga, the same can be said to be true, wherein you have female characters who possess both the qualities of a prepubecent girl (youthful, cute, etc.) and a mature woman. (personality and sexual attractiveness for some)
hmm... I remember that sometime ago I have heard a theory that the current "loli and lolicon phenomenon" is due to people's virgin-complex, so loli represent the beauty and purity in virgins... or something... maybe they are right... I'm not sure though
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Old 2004-06-02, 12:35   Link #38
kujoe
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^Well, that's just it really. There's a distance between actual age and actual appearance--which in this case, is to be much younger than what age is usually supposed to imply. But I also think that personality and appeal are what matter the most when it comes to female characters in anime and manga--or in games.
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Old 2004-06-02, 12:40   Link #39
Thany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
I think loli in the anime sense has little to do with real age... it's more of an appearance and personality thing than age. Reiha in the Miyu series could be thousands of years old but she's still considered a loli.
I guess you didn't read my previous post...
It's obvious that you can't give an age to an anime character, but a loli is young looking.
Examples like Rei Ayanami can't be considered loli, not even in look.
A good example of loli would be the heroine of Doki Doki School Hours (I know I'm repeting myself) or any character that would be like her in physical.
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Old 2004-06-02, 12:57   Link #40
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thany
I guess you didn't read my previous post...
It's obvious that you can't give an age to an anime character, but a lolicon character is young looking.
Examples like Rei Ayanami can't be considered lolicons, not even in look.
A good example of lolicon character would be the heroine of Doki Doki School Hours (I know I'm repeting myself) or any character that would be like her in physical.
well, that's just what I've heard from some self-claimed otaku and sel-claimed lolicons and some articles in chinese/japanese website, that the current loli/lolicon phenomenon is started by Rei Ayanami. And of course she can't be considered as a lolicon, since a lolicon is a man/woman (yup there are female lolicons) who likes loli in animes. we should get the terms right first. loli - young girl in anime, comic and game. lolicon - people who like loli.

From what I understand, most of the famous loli are generally 12-14 year-old-looking, maybe because of what kujoe said, that people prefer a combination of the purity of a prepubecent girl and the sexual appeal of a mature woman.

the strict definition of "loli" is hard to say, I've seen some websites say loli should be from 11-15 (in terms of outward appearance), while other websites say under 12 and no lower limit. but most agree that the first anime character who started the current surge of lolicons is Rei Ayanami (I guess more because of her personality than her appearance), and there are three popular age limits to the loli definition, which is 15, 12 and 10.
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