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Old 2008-09-12, 16:45   Link #61
kujoe
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Abh expansionist idelology is quite unique, I think. On the one hand, you can claim that they're conquerors, but on the other hand what they're truly interested in, is just interstellar travel. They're primary aim is to dominate space travel, and they leave planetary territories alone well enough as long as order is maintained. Then again, perhaps not—that is, if you consider space travel as a commodity.

While they consider themselves superior compared to other races or societies, they also acknowledge their master-slave origins. Such a tragic and and humble history has ironically shaped their views with regard to their space-faring mandate to rule. Moreover, despite condescending claims to superiority Abh society is also largely open and very liberal. Terran born individuals can aspire to certain positions within their ranks, some even becoming part of Abh nobility, and the Abh seem to have no qualms against it. In fact, Lafiel at on time questions Jinto's apprehensions when she tells him that he too is Abh.

If there ever was such a thing as a "benevolent conqueror", the Abh would be it, or the closest to one. It's one of the fascinating things I find interesting about their society.

By the way, have the novels started to advance the story further? I know there's a small of chance of this happening, but I really want another season. I think there's still so much to tell.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:00   Link #62
Wesley84
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Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
Abh expansionist idelology is quite unique, I think. On the one hand, you can claim that they're conquerors, but on the other hand what they're truly interested in, is just interstellar travel. They're primary aim is to dominate space travel, and they leave planetary territories alone well enough as long as order is maintained. Then again, perhaps not—that is, if you consider space travel as a commodity.

While they consider themselves superior compared to other races or societies, they also acknowledge their master-slave origins. Such a tragic and and humble history has ironically shaped their views with regard to their space-faring mandate to rule. Moreover, despite condescending claims to superiority Abh society is also largely open and very liberal. Terran born individuals can aspire to certain positions within their ranks, some even becoming part of Abh nobility, and the Abh seem to have no qualms against it. In fact, Lafiel at on time questions Jinto's apprehensions when she tells him that he too is Abh.

If there ever was such a thing as a "benevolent conqueror", the Abh would be it, or the closest to one. It's one of the fascinating things I find interesting about their society.

By the way, have the novels started to advance the story further? I know there's a small of chance of this happening, but I really want another season. I think there's still so much to tell.
As a practical manner, very few will ever meet Abh standards, as their standards a set for Abh. Point and case, seven f-ing years to learn their goddamn language. 120 lunch menus to memorize for the sheer hell of it. And pretty much nothing else besides their noble heriarchy.

A Terran could literally spend their entire lifetime, and get nowhere in an Abh-based society, no matter how hard they worked.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:05   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
Abh expansionist idelology is quite unique, I think. On the one hand, you can claim that they're conquerors, but on the other hand what they're truly interested in, is just interstellar travel. They're primary aim is to dominate space travel, and they leave planetary territories alone well enough as long as order is maintained. Then again, perhaps not—that is, if you consider space travel as a commodity.

While they consider themselves superior compared to other races or societies, they also acknowledge their master-slave origins. Such a tragic and and humble history has ironically shaped their views with regard to their space-faring mandate to rule. Moreover, despite condescending claims to superiority Abh society is also largely open and very liberal. Terran born individuals can aspire to certain positions within their ranks, some even becoming part of Abh nobility, and the Abh seem to have no qualms against it. In fact, Lafiel at on time questions Jinto's apprehensions when she tells him that he too is Abh.

If there ever was such a thing as a "benevolent conqueror", the Abh would be it, or the closest to one. It's one of the fascinating things I find interesting about their society.

By the way, have the novels started to advance the story further? I know there's a small of chance of this happening, but I really want another season. I think there's still so much to tell.
vol 4 goes back to the main plot line of the war and politics.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:09   Link #64
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As a practical manner, very few will ever meet Abh standards, as their standards a set for Abh. Point and case, seven f-ing years to learn their goddamn language. 120 lunch menus to memorize for the sheer hell of it. And pretty much nothing else besides their noble heriarchy.

A Terran could literally spend their entire lifetime, and get nowhere in an Abh-based society, no matter how hard they worked.
If someone lacks the talent or/and will to put in the efforts to meet Abh standards, they shouldn't even bother. As mentioned before, they can still interact within the human society without the interference of Abhs.

Anyway, Samson was able to join the Abh force and he doesn't strike me as an incrediblely talented or ambitious man.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:10   Link #65
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
Abh expansionist idelology is quite unique, I think. On the one hand, you can claim that they're conquerors, but on the other hand what they're truly interested in, is just interstellar travel. They're primary aim is to dominate space travel, and they leave planetary territories alone well enough as long as order is maintained. Then again, perhaps not—that is, if you consider space travel as a commodity.

While they consider themselves superior compared to other races or societies, they also acknowledge their master-slave origins. Such a tragic and and humble history has ironically shaped their views with regard to their space-faring mandate to rule. Moreover, despite condescending claims to superiority Abh society is also largely open and very liberal. Terran born individuals can aspire to certain positions within their ranks, some even becoming part of Abh nobility, and the Abh seem to have no qualms against it. In fact, Lafiel at on time questions Jinto's apprehensions when she tells him that he too is Abh.

If there ever was such a thing as a "benevolent conqueror", the Abh would be it, or the closest to one. It's one of the fascinating things I find interesting about their society.
I think it's because they can manipulate their genes pretty much any way they want to. So Jinto's kids, for example, will be blue haired Abhs. That removes, for example, any qualm they might have about race purity or the value of bloodlines.


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As a practical manner, very few will ever meet Abh standards, as their standards a set for Abh. Point and case, seven f-ing years to learn their goddamn language. 120 lunch menus to memorize for the sheer hell of it. And pretty much nothing else besides their noble heriarchy.

A Terran could literally spend their entire lifetime, and get nowhere in an Abh-based society, no matter how hard they worked.
Jinto's an exceptional case. Febdash, much less so, I think. More like two generations of successful, hard working engineers, and that was enough to go from commoners to minor nobility. Of course, it must be easier if you grow up an Imperial citizen and have baronh as your first language.

Also, isn't the Prime Minister of the Empire a "Terran"?

The biggest obstacle for a Terran's advancement is probably their lack of Frokahj - that extra sensory organ Abh have. It probably bars them from jobs such as pilot or even ship captain. But for technical or administrative jobs, they must be pretty even, and can rise as high. Except for the fact that they've got less time to do it in, I suppose.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:29   Link #66
Wesley84
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Anyway, Samson was able to join the Abh force and he doesn't strike me as an incrediblely talented or ambitious man.
He's in it for the nookie. Joke's on him though. Abh chicks don't put out.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:32   Link #67
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley84
As a practical manner, very few will ever meet Abh standards, as their standards a set for Abh. Point and case, seven f-ing years to learn their goddamn language. 120 lunch menus to memorize for the sheer hell of it. And pretty much nothing else besides their noble heriarchy.

A Terran could literally spend their entire lifetime, and get nowhere in an Abh-based society, no matter how hard they worked.
I expect that aiming for such a high and esteemed position would require meeting a set of high standards. But as for other positions in life, even non-Abh folks are pretty much free to pursue what they want to pursue, with a shorter lifespan being the only significant factor. If a person is entitled to a noble rank, he or she should likewise live up to it.

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I think it's because they can manipulate their genes pretty much any way they want to. So Jinto's kids, for example, will be blue haired Abhs. That removes, for example, any qualm they might have about race purity or the value of bloodlines.
That still doesn't change anything though. Generally, advancement in Abh society sees no color. However, depending on the situation, giving birth to a child of nobility will of course require genetic manipulation.


Another thing I forgot to mention about the Abh and their expansionist policy, is that they don't give a flying crap about the cultures of the other societies under their rule. People are free to practice their culture and their beliefs in any way they choose. The Abh strike me as very civically liberal empire. They're pretty much what I would imagine "elves in space" to be like.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:35   Link #68
Wesley84
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He was just the provisions officer...
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:44   Link #69
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by kujoe View Post
I expect that aiming for such a high and esteemed position would require meeting a set of high standards. But as for other positions in life, even non-Abh folks are pretty much free to pursue what they want to pursue, with a shorter lifespan being the only significant factor. If a person is entitled to a noble rank, he or she should likewise live up to it.


That still doesn't change anything though. Generally, advancement in Abh society sees no color. However, depending on the situation, giving birth to a child of nobility will of course require genetic manipulation.


Another thing I forgot to mention about the Abh and their expansionist policy, is that they don't give a flying crap about the cultures of the other societies under their rule. People are free to practice their culture and their beliefs in any way they choose. The Abh strike me as very civically liberal empire. They're pretty much what I would imagine "elves in space" to be like.
Yeah. There are a few things they won't budge about (mostly "The Spaceways are ours"), but aside from that, they just don't care what goes on on lands. However, things aren't always rosy. It also means they don't care if there's a dictatorship, as long as the proverbial trains run on time. And they can also be pretty brutal. I remember that scene where Jinto described the penalties of a refugee camps, and they were pretty much all "death penalty".

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He was just the provisions officer...
And could, with enough zeal and talent, rise to full admiral, administrating provisions for the fleet. Most people, of course, don't rise that high. Most Abhs aren't officers either.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:52   Link #70
Wesley84
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And could, with enough zeal and talent, rise to full admiral, administrating provisions for the fleet. Most people, of course, don't rise that high. Most Abhs aren't officers either.
The point is...120 lunch menus. That is f-ing ridiculious.
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Old 2008-09-12, 17:53   Link #71
kujoe
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah. There are a few things they won't budge about (mostly "The Spaceways are ours"), but aside from that, they just don't care what goes on on lands. However, things aren't always rosy. It also means they don't care if there's a dictatorship, as long as the proverbial trains run on time. And they can also be pretty brutal. I remember that scene where Jinto described the penalties of a refugee camps, and they were pretty much all "death penalty".
That's true. I guess that's still good news to such governments when you put it that way.

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Originally Posted by Wesley84
The point is...120 lunch menus. That is f-ing ridiculious.
Is memorizing 120 lunch menus part of being an officer in the fleet? Jinto only had to study that because of his noble status. And as a noble, a lot of societal rituals and protocol is the norm. For an interstellar empire such as the Abh, even more so. I'm pretty sure even Abh-born children of noble birth have to go through the same thing. Unfortunately for Jinto, he started later than others.
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Old 2008-09-12, 18:02   Link #72
incube
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The impressive thing about the Abh is how well they managed to control and use wisely their biogenetics techonology. I mean... they could easily start a clone army like in star wars and fill the galaxy with blue haired space elves xD
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Old 2008-09-12, 18:07   Link #73
kujoe
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Aren't some children simply cloned from their single parent anyway?

I know that "may I have your genes?" is the Abh's way of popping the question (resulting in a "child of love" or otherwise), but doesn't Lafiel say that there are some people who choose not to have any partners at all?
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Old 2008-09-12, 18:12   Link #74
Anh_Minh
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Aren't some children simply cloned from their single parent anyway?
Yes, but it's rare. I think because they find it boring and consider it does little to advance the race. They probably have "stock" genes anyone can use or purchase, to modify their own template.

Also, what would clone armies bring to the table? Clones, in the Abh universe, grow just as slowly as other kids. No point, from that point of view. And Abhs are supposed to invest a lot of time in the rearing of their kids anyway. That's not very compatible with mass production.
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Old 2008-09-12, 18:56   Link #75
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He's in it for the nookie. Joke's on him though. Abh chicks don't put out.
that has more to do with Samson's dietry habits then Abh girls. If Jinot was brave to step out on Lafiel could have gotten some
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Old 2008-09-12, 19:04   Link #76
Wesley84
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Is memorizing 120 lunch menus part of being an officer in the fleet? Jinto only had to study that because of his noble status. And as a noble, a lot of societal rituals and protocol is the norm. For an interstellar empire such as the Abh, even more so. I'm pretty sure even Abh-born children of noble birth have to go through the same thing. Unfortunately for Jinto, he started later than others.
Jinto's nobly training was completed within the seven years he spent at the school. He learned the heriarchy, the language, as well as customs and things of that nture. His officier training was completely seperate, and the 120 lunch menu thing...was part of it.
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Old 2008-09-12, 19:10   Link #77
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I think it's because they can manipulate their genes pretty much any way they want to. So Jinto's kids, for example, will be blue haired Abhs. That removes, for example, any qualm they might have about race purity or the value of bloodlines.
I also recall that your descendent also get loyalty genes programmed into them. By modern moral standards that's like selling your soul to become president of a small dictatorial nation (granted we already got plenty of that it seems).
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Old 2008-09-12, 19:35   Link #78
incube
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Also, what would clone armies bring to the table? Clones, in the Abh universe, grow just as slowly as other kids. No point, from that point of view. And Abhs are supposed to invest a lot of time in the rearing of their kids anyway. That's not very compatible with mass production.
Eh... what would clone armies do??? Who do u think Darth Vader commanded to take over the galaxy ??? >.<

What im trying to say is that if the Abh started to clone massively they would surely be able to conquer the galaxy in no time but that would be at the expense of loosing their humanity and became simply machines...
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Old 2008-09-12, 19:44   Link #79
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Eh... what would clone armies do??? Who do u think Darth Vader commanded to take over the galaxy ??? >.<

What im trying to say is that if the Abh started to clone massively they would surely be able to conquer the galaxy in no time but that would be at the expense of loosing their humanity and became simply machines...
Not really, if there's one thing the clone wars novels and cartoons show, is that even clones are still "human" and ultimately devolope their own personalities and feelings. They are basically just genetically identical twins of their "father" with an accelerated rate of aging and raised and educated as warriors like Spartans.
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Old 2008-09-12, 20:02   Link #80
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Eh... what would clone armies do??? Who do u think Darth Vader commanded to take over the galaxy ??? >.<

What im trying to say is that if the Abh started to clone massively they would surely be able to conquer the galaxy in no time but that would be at the expense of loosing their humanity and became simply machines...
Although at that point, who would care? Everyone who would resist would have been killed off already, and future 'insurgents' are kept in check by the loyalty gene. Sounds like a win win situation if you ask me. They might have lost their humanity, but that's a small price to pay for eternal peace, no?



Seriously speaking though, with Lafiel probably outliving Jinto several times his age, I do find it quite sad she'll either be sad for the rest of her life or move on to another man. But alas, such is the fate of all human-elf relationships since the dawn of fantasy fiction...
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