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Old 2004-06-13, 00:13   Link #1
Daemon
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Question World of WarCraft or FFXI

Does anyone know how would World of WarCraft compare to Final Fantasy XI?

How many of you plan to buy it?

What are your decisions current FFXI Players?

Anyone here played the Beta?

Thanks!
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Old 2004-06-13, 02:23   Link #2
Kyuven
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personally, Blizzard games haven't been able to hold my attention for extended periods of time, and while WoW would probably be different, i'd rather stick with FFXI for various reasons
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Old 2004-06-13, 02:53   Link #3
Shadowlord
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WOW is 100x better even in its beta stages that FFXI
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Old 2004-06-13, 03:08   Link #4
dreamless
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well, maybe WoW will be better than FF11, but that doesn't say much... currently I don't see how WoW can sway people from DoAC, EQ, AC2, etc. etc. Guild War seems to be much more interesting...
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Old 2004-06-13, 14:43   Link #5
Sid_Burn
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Hmmm... I cant say w/c one is better... im a fan of both WoW and FFXI...
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Old 2004-06-13, 18:03   Link #6
Necrodeath
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World of Warcraft is so gonna pwn.
I'm a Blizzard lover, with me still playing Diablo1(!), Diablo2: Lord of Destruction (To sickening lengths) , Warcraft3: FT and Starcraft. I also intend to buy Starcraft: Ghost, and ofcourse WoW. Blizzard may take a while to make a game, but when they do, they deliver top notch quality work. Actually, now that I think of it, Blizzard games are probably the only games really worth buying, together with the Age of Empires series.

Just the thought of me being a Tauren and just Plain Running over the deserts, killing all things that come near me appeals so much to me.
Almost as much as me being a Necromancer riding my nightmare from town to town resurrecting things...
I can't afford not to get this game...
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Old 2004-06-13, 20:11   Link #7
Daemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid_Burn
Hmmm... I cant say w/c one is better... im a fan of both WoW and FFXI...
same......but gotta choose.....
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Old 2004-06-14, 05:35   Link #8
JediNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, maybe WoW will be better than FF11, but that doesn't say much... currently I don't see how WoW can sway people from DoAC, EQ, AC2, etc. etc. Guild War seems to be much more interesting...
FF11 honestly is REALLY BAD... its an even more pointless timesink than EQ since theres really no end-game raiding in FF11 beyond ultra notorious mobs or something which is zzz...

As for WoW -- It will get big numbers because its Blizzard-made, its not EQ (many ppl in EQ are very tired of it), Daoc honestly is pathetic and yet its one of the more popular games isnt that sad... (I played Daoc since release and Mythic is way incompetent and cant balance crap ... they boggle the mind in stupidity), AC2 was a flatout bomb, and SWG was a horrid release too thats only hanging on bc of the franchise name.

Daoc is just massive zergs of people and them exploiting whatever imbalances they can (which there are MANY thx Mythic). It's my belief that Mythic wouldn't be in business this long if they were this completely moronic, so I think its half idiocy and half they are intentionally doing round-robin overpowering to keep people rerolling classes and keep playing.
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Old 2004-06-14, 10:23   Link #9
HoboGod
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is Worlds of Warcraft going to have free online play like all other blizzard games? if so, it has a huge advantage over every other commercial MMORPG. although I am pissed that blizzard is doing this before a Starcraft 2.
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Old 2004-06-14, 10:39   Link #10
Biohazard
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I will most likely stick with FFXI ... and yeah i will comment.
I just think WoW is not going to beat FFXI when it comes down to complexity and system. There may be alot of gamers who think FFXI has "too much" but i like it that way... and really, i do not think that WoW will be that complex.

FFXI features just soo many things - Skillchain, Weather/Time, Subjobs, Crafting, Story, A lot of Quests, Cat girls , good support, Events, PvP... and it is still expanding trough expansion packs .... its like overly massive
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Old 2004-06-14, 10:47   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoboGod
is Worlds of Warcraft going to have free online play like all other blizzard games? if so, it has a huge advantage over every other commercial MMORPG. although I am pissed that blizzard is doing this before a Starcraft 2.
AFAIK you'll have to pay a monthly fee to play it online like you do with other commercial MMORPG. I just hope they fix hacks more quickly now since they get money for it...

If you guys are interested in WoW, check this site out.
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Old 2004-06-14, 23:07   Link #12
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Although FFXI is good, WoW willown it. I'm a huge Warcraft fan, and I thinkthere will be alot more to do in WoW than in FFXI. from what I know, they haven't decided a release date for it yet, so who knows what else they can cram into it, although I'm a bit concerened about the Alliance/horde non-party making, since me and some of my friends don't plan on being on the same side. :/
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Old 2004-06-14, 23:42   Link #13
Jazzrat
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AFAIK, you wont be able to group with other faction. However, that's according to the beta server ruleset. I m sure there will be other server with different ruleset after release (which most people are guessing at the last quarter of 2004).
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Old 2004-06-15, 04:10   Link #14
JediNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biohazard
I will most likely stick with FFXI ... and yeah i will comment.
I just think WoW is not going to beat FFXI when it comes down to complexity and system. There may be alot of gamers who think FFXI has "too much" but i like it that way... and really, i do not think that WoW will be that complex.

FFXI features just soo many things - Skillchain, Weather/Time, Subjobs, Crafting, Story, A lot of Quests, Cat girls , good support, Events, PvP... and it is still expanding trough expansion packs .... its like overly massive
I don't know if complex is the correct word for it. DAOC has much more complexity to melee combat for example. The main problem with FF11 combat is with rare exception TP takes a long time to build so skill chains arent very frequent. The PvP was only recently added and is rather craptacular. Other games have weather and time-based elements. And things like stories and quests and expansions are available in all MMO games...

Not trying to sound like an ass, but what MMO games have you played besides FF11? I've played at least 8 and the only one I found more boring and pointless than FF11 was Lineage1. There is a huge disconnect in the combat IMHO -- the pace happens so slowly that I never got the feeling that I was really fighting anything. Theres also a ton of downtime getting between places even if you have a Chocobo or Airship pass, not to mention everyone hangs out in Jueno only past L20. Subjobs are also an annoying way to diversify your skills because it usually means grouping with inexperienced newbies again unless you happen to be at the same level sub as Linkshell members.

There is also no defining reason to level your character either -- once you hit L75 what are you going to do? Theres very little "end-game" type material. My other complaint is a lack of item diversity -- every wears the same things for their class/level basically -- L50s you get your Artifact armor and in the 70s you wear your Relic and thats it. My final complaint is the timesinks -- and there are many many of them.... Chocobo license, Airship pass, multiple quest levels for inventory and vault size, level limit quests, etc ... alot of pointless annoying stuff.

I find that most people stick with FF11 bc they are either new to MMOs, play for the atmosphere/friends, or sometimes just sick of things like EQ and DAOC and are waiting for "the next big thing"
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Old 2004-06-15, 10:49   Link #15
Biohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediNight
I don't know if complex is the correct word for it. DAOC has much more complexity to melee combat for example. The main problem with FF11 combat is with rare exception TP takes a long time to build so skill chains arent very frequent. The PvP was only recently added and is rather craptacular. Other games have weather and time-based elements. And things like stories and quests and expansions are available in all MMO games...

Not trying to sound like an ass, but what MMO games have you played besides FF11? I've played at least 8 and the only one I found more boring and pointless than FF11 was Lineage1. There is a huge disconnect in the combat IMHO -- the pace happens so slowly that I never got the feeling that I was really fighting anything. Theres also a ton of downtime getting between places even if you have a Chocobo or Airship pass, not to mention everyone hangs out in Jueno only past L20. Subjobs are also an annoying way to diversify your skills because it usually means grouping with inexperienced newbies again unless you happen to be at the same level sub as Linkshell members.

There is also no defining reason to level your character either -- once you hit L75 what are you going to do? Theres very little "end-game" type material. My other complaint is a lack of item diversity -- every wears the same things for their class/level basically -- L50s you get your Artifact armor and in the 70s you wear your Relic and thats it. My final complaint is the timesinks -- and there are many many of them.... Chocobo license, Airship pass, multiple quest levels for inventory and vault size, level limit quests, etc ... alot of pointless annoying stuff.

I find that most people stick with FF11 bc they are either new to MMOs, play for the atmosphere/friends, or sometimes just sick of things like EQ and DAOC and are waiting for "the next big thing"
You are wrong, i have played tons of mmorps - lets see:
Ragnarok Online, PristonTale, Fung Wan Online, Anarchy Online, Dragon Raja Online, Dransik, PSO, LineAge 2, a few koreanish one / japanese one that arnt worth renembering, and some really crappy ones that ive even forgot the name ( something with blade maiden or something, something with dunes or desert.. dunno )

I do not have played DAoC yet, but yeah, the skillchaining is very complex seing that every TP-attack has an element and different elements can chained and continue to be chained by magic ... about it happening rare .. it depends, if you do it right it will happen a lot. For example - different chars have different TP building speed. A Monk will most likely gather TP faster than a Warrior, so the monk can do one normal TP attack and then a chain with the warrior. So you can sorta work out rules, and you can always ask for the TP of the party members and then decide to either do it on your own or to wait for the chain, and i dont think its rarly happening.. every 2nd or 3rd fight a chain is possible.

I don't know when you have played, but the PvP seems very nice to me. I mean 6vs6 from different nations partied up with some special commands ... it seems sweet.

Its true that other mmorpgs have weather and time, but what game goes in detail with the time as ffxi does? I mean what game features different moon phases and day-types and the likes? With special things happening at special times?

Story Quests and expansions in every game? Yeah right.
Played Anarchy Online? Tell me a great storyline or quests in that game ... hah, the missions you do to earn your living might be considered as quests - but i find those even more annoying than the FFXI ones. ( go to there, kill person bla or retrive item alb, get your money - done )

Ragnarok Online? Quests? .. oh please, the only real quests are the mixing and the job quests....

Pristontale? Look above , same applies to nearly all the other games.

So i ask you - what has in your opinion more point in leveling: Ragnarok Online? What goal???
Anarchy Online ?? Pristontale ? Tell me a damn goal in one of them ( besides leveling your character and be uber strong. )

In FFXI there are boss monsters, the missions, the subjobs, chocobo, advanced jobs ... alot of things to look forward to.. and its just fun to go with a party and talk nice while killing stuff, its fun for me, really.
PLUS FFXI NEVER lagged for me, really never. Imagine the old RO days ect. its a hughe advantage...

And i think the system of FFXI is great too, that you can combine subjob with your normal jobs and the ways your character develops his combat skills and the likes..
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Old 2004-06-15, 18:07   Link #16
JediNight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biohazard
You are wrong, i have played tons of mmorps - lets see:
Ragnarok Online, PristonTale, Fung Wan Online, Anarchy Online, Dragon Raja Online, Dransik, PSO, LineAge 2, a few koreanish one / japanese one that arnt worth renembering, and some really crappy ones that ive even forgot the name ( something with blade maiden or something, something with dunes or desert.. dunno )

So i ask you - what has in your opinion more point in leveling: Ragnarok Online? What goal???
Anarchy Online ?? Pristontale ? Tell me a damn goal in one of them ( besides leveling your character and be uber strong. )

In FFXI there are boss monsters, the missions, the subjobs, chocobo, advanced jobs ... alot of things to look forward to.. and its just fun to go with a party and talk nice while killing stuff, its fun for me, really.
PLUS FFXI NEVER lagged for me, really never. Imagine the old RO days ect. its a hughe advantage...

And i think the system of FFXI is great too, that you can combine subjob with your normal jobs and the ways your character develops his combat skills and the likes..
Ouch I'm sorry man, you seem to have picked all the worst MMOs that exist to play, so I can see why FF11 is so great to you =D RO, PrisonTale, Dragon Raja(?), Fung Wan(?), and Dransik(?) are all Asian MMOs AFAIK, at least Ive never even heard of the last 3 at all. PSO isn't really an MMO, more like a Diablo2 kinda thing. AO was always a joke of horridness as well, I never played it but I heard all the horror stories from many many people.

I have played: Ultima Online, Everquest, DAOC, EVE(Beta), Earth and Beyond(Beta), RO, Lineage1(US Beta), Starwars Galaxies, and FF11 -- maybe I'm forgetting 1 or 2 smaller ones. Basically the other semi-"major" MMO I didn't play was Asherons Call bc I didn't like the style and was still into UO at the time I think. You seem to have played many of the poor obscure Asian MMOs.

Asian MMOs tend to be more light-hearted and catered to an "online graphical chatroom" kind of feel with little real content (RO, PT, Lineage, etc) and FF11 falls more towards that side. The only game of real "popularity" you have played that I could comment on is Anarchy Online -- which I think we agree was crap anyways. Lineage2 is much the same in overall gameplay as the original.

FF11 has some interesting things, but nothing innovative or new really. You can go all the way back to the early 80s Ultima games for examples of Moon phases and time being meaningful, plus many MMOs have spawns based on Day/Night or specific times of day. Games like EQ do the Boss monster/Raid material much better than FF11 and DAOC doesnt do that bad of a job with it either. UO you could basically do whatever you wanted with your character -- there was all the skills available in the game and you could choose to work up any you cared to and rework them at any time. DAOC also offers skill respecs that let you respend your points(limited to the spec lines available to your class) -- plus you deal with drawbacks .... if I go full weapon(50) and high dual wield, then my assassin will have low stealth/poisons/crit strike for example. Plus Realm Abils and Master Level abils open up 2 other ways to customize your character beyond this.

Specialized combat is much better in DAOC -- You have enough endurance to kill 1 or 2 mobs solo with styles before needing to rest (like 20 secs to regen end) and in a group you almost always have endurance regen to style indefinitely. Style attacks were based on many things -- Anytime(high end use), Positional(Front, Side, Back), and Reactionary(Evade, Block, Parry, Miss) with 2-4 followups usable after the initial style depending on the style used and what your level in the weapon type was.

UO didn't have raid/boss mobs in the normal sense, but more of a well-rounded virtual world experience -- FF11 falls short of fitting into this category however on a number of points. Mog houses aren't a meaningful implementation of housing bc they lack a physical placement in the world, other people cannot visit them, and decorations etc in the house serve no real purpose I believe -- you cannot interact with them I think? PvP is still very limited(Arena) -- there is no real struggle between the countries or danger outside of controlled sources(only mobs). While the crafting was implemented fairly well, the way everything is magically synthed and requires no tools is rather lame. (No Forge etc) With no item decay or loss you have mudflation too as Auction markets get overwhelmed.

As for lag -- you were playing Asian MMOs mostly based IN Asia -- of course you were going to lag like hell With the exception of AO(crap) and UO(no movement prediction bc it was tile-based not 3d) all the other MMOs I played were just fine on lag.

So I guess my final comment is that if you are happy then thats all that matters. But FF11 is neither ground-breaking or the best in any individual category or overall world presentation. I hope this was at least a brief overview to some MMOs for everyone.
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Old 2004-06-15, 18:29   Link #17
Biohazard
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Well, but what i do not like too much about DAoC is the fact that you can reach maximum level in less than one week if you are getting trained by friends .. a class mate of mine has like 3 or more maximum level characters ... i think thats just wrong somehow ^^;

The items in the mog house do alot - they give you moghanchments and more storage room.. moghanchments mean that if you get a bed you will loose less exp on death - just to name an example. there are alot more...

hum well... FFXI is for me the first mmorpg that ive played .. and if you played RO you should know how bad lag can get.. bleh, RO was horrible on lagg.. really...

By the way i played ultima online on freeshards, while it wasnt too bad it wasnt too good either... Pk's got annoying, graphics totally outdated .. it tries to put you into an RPG feeling where noone does RP at all, sorta senseless...

In FFXI you can kill Mobs solo too, it depends on your equiptment and food - if you are strong you can take on a even match, or 2 or more decent challenges after another, or just farm easy preys for exp .. but then again playing solo just isnt the point in FFXI .. you are forced to team up or you will level very very slowly...

Maybe i will add more later but right now im tired like hell T_T; after writing a 6 page long c-program, heh...
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Old 2004-06-15, 19:06   Link #18
JediNight
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Well, its kinda different in DAOC -- getting max level (50) is only really the beginning...same is true with EQ. While I don't like the Master Level questing, its still extra enhancements you can get after you are L50. Realm Abilities would take you like a year of a few hours a day of RvR to cap out on Realm skill points to spend on them. And getting a character to L50 in a week takes alot of effort -- you have to have a very specific group makeup, fighting in specific areas, and need like at least 2 other friends helping for around 12hours a day for the week to do it.

For FF11 I assume you aren't very high level yet -- my roommate is a L55 Red Mage and he has commented on the fact that you can't fight Even Cons effectively beyond the Teens except maybe in rare cases. And by L30 its either impossible or incredibly not worth the effort.
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Old 2004-06-15, 21:53   Link #19
WARRAVEN
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WoW

I am in the WoW beta. It is very fun, but it gets boring on the orc side. The other side(alliance) had a lot happening, and during the period of levels 10-21 I jumped from over 3-4 areas around which were completely diferent(from a wrecked town/area to a forest, to a mountain town, to a giant lake to a swamp). On the Orc side, you start in a giant desert... then yuo go to the next area which is a desert(at level 10 or so) and from levels 10-25 you stay in this second giant desert.... nothing changes.... and you run around in the same areas you were doing quests 10 levels ago... its so boring a place too... just an empty ol' desert, arg!! And the Creeps there are annoying as all hell. I'm a mage, so I can only fight one at a time(annoying feature they added on), so I have to drag them from groups with lures. The problem is that in the barrens there are these flocks of monsters just running around that love to pop up when you don't want them, and even a monster that is completely invisible and undetectable until BAM, it comes out and attacks you(great timing they have as well). Since your doing levels in the same area as people 10 levels greater, with 10 level higher quests, you get to encounter monsters that can kill you with one swat, and it turns out that going outside the town yuo can easily cross levels by mistake.
Another mistake of the area(barrens/big area), is that at least 60-70% of the quests are collection quests(X amount of Y), which means the more in a group, that times more time it takes(if you have 2 people, it takes twice as long, because you have to hunt and run around to find the items on the monsters). That makes grouping dumb, which makes it harder to complete the quests, and since so many are in this one area... it takes so long to complete this hardly worthwhile quests(you can try to find other areas and quests, but thats a fruitless quest in itself). bad area, they got so many complaints new patch should be fixing a LOT. Especially since there are no trainers to gain skills(like mage and priest), so you have to run back to start, which is 30 minutes at least. I hope they change it.
However, the trade skill system is AWESOME! I love it to death, I was a skinner and leatherworker on the alliance side. And now I am a blacksmith/metal finder now(even though I am thinking about going skining again, but I will get to that soon). It is so much fun! I enjoyed Leatherworking more though, because to blacksmith, you need to around a forge in a town and the barrens does not have a forge . But there are tons of skills, some special recipes(worth quite a bit of money) floating around, and yuo can sell your stuff.
The problem with trade skills is that you sell at least 95% of what you make to a vendor. If there is one armor out there better then what you make, yours is instantly worthless. It still doesn't make sense to me, but I was a very high level leatherworker and I never once sold anything to anyone but a vendor, I was 3/4 out of the highest possible level of leatherworking and I could make some real fancy things, but I never sold a damn thing, and I tried a lot .
One more problem I have is that Mages can't wear anything but cloth... about 5% of all the armor is cloth, and while warlocks, and druids and priests of my level are wearing armors that are 34 points strong, I have a 10 cloak, and thats the best I can get for my level. High level cloth sucks, and so does all cloth. It may seem justified but it isn't. Not only that but only one boring trade skill is for mages, while all the other classes can wear tons more armor and weapons.
One cool thing, is that even though mages can only use sticks and wands(worthless...), is that you can train using skill points gained in combat to do more. I have a knife skill right now, and am carrying around a good dagger(does at least 5-8 times more powerful than some simple stick), and I am going to train for swords(you can only train in swords and knives for mages) soon, but it takes a long time to build up the skill points(why I am training in Blacksmithing) as it should, because it is pretty major. And there are many many other things you can put it in.
Different monsters are entertaining and there are quite a few bugs to work out, but so far the game is pretty good, if they fix up the orc side they will have one hell of a game going. I would get it later, but I can't afford to pay monthly for a game, so thats out. And the new systems they are implementing(and a few suggestions I asked for ) are being added in(DLing patch right now), its gonna become a whole lot funner(new PvP server has got a lot of people psyched!). If you have questions ask em and I'll be around.

Raven
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Old 2004-06-16, 00:04   Link #20
Domasai
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I've played Final Fantasy XI and can honestly say that I grew bored of it remarkably fast. I agree there are an endless amount of things you can do in it but I simply felt that all those things were meaningless if I didn't find any of them particularly entertaining. It has a lot of complexity, terrific graphics, and a great control scheme (particularly if you play with a PS2 controller), but it just wasn't all that fun. But that's me. If you like it, great.

I haven't played WoW yet but I would like to. Blizzard is a talented company, even if they have trouble getting crap out in a timely manner.

The only online game that I feel is just wall-to-wall FUN is City of Heroes. Is it complex? No. Are the graphics better than FF XI or WoW? No and probably not, respectively. But when you're in a group of superheroes and you wade into a mass of baddies, with powers of all types flying across the screen in a chaotic cacaphony of bodies, particles, and you can barely tell what the hell is happening because it's simply that insane -- THAT is fun. I can't explain the exhiliration of seeing sixty -- that's right, SIXTY -- bad guys being tossed sky-high by the assorted powers of eight superpowered lunatics as they charge into them. It's simply indescribable in the sheer, unadulterated, mindless joy of it all.

Yes, you have to pay to play. But I can name off the top of my head over a hundred games that I paid a hefty price tag for, just to grow tired of them in a week or two. Or worse, beat them and feel no further interest in playing. Paying $12.95 a month for access to hours of wacky superhero / freakshow fun isn't that much. How many movies do you go to? How many movies or videogames do you rent? How can $12.95 a month be so bad in comparison to all the other things we do for mere hours of enjoyment? I sadly have to cancel my account soon, since I'm moving out of the States and can't take my computer with me. But I've absolutely enjoyed the hell out of three months of the game thus far and haven't stopped liking it for one moment. I haven't had to sit around for minutes at a time till my health came back; I haven't had to camp or travel for forty minutes to do some worthless quest that simply wasn't enjoyable at all.

And I like that. Choose your poison.
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