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View Poll Results: Sasuke.........
He is still as cool now as he was before. Sasuke for life! 55 16.87%
Give the guy some slack, after all his entire family was murdered 56 17.18%
Never liked him, never hated him 81 24.85%
Yeah, I am beginning to hate him now. 45 13.80%
Sasuke deserves to die! A.S.S for life! 89 27.30%
Voters: 326. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-06-23, 23:27   Link #61
eLstar
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Ah, well now I see their point. It's an interesting way to look at things. However, I don't necessarily agree with them. I'm not one to use labels on someone but Orochimaru is definitely NOT a good guy that's for sure.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:28   Link #62
evil_edea
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Naruto is not Gary-Stu!

Quote:
Sasuke WAS learning to have faith in humanity, as you put it, again. READ THE MANGA! Then Itachi comes and forces him to relive the worst day in his life for 24 hours straight. It took Sasuke years to learn to trust and allow people to become close to him again. Itachi comes and tortures him, calling him weak, telling him he's not strong enough yet and to hate more if he wants to defeat him, while he's attacking Sasuke's mind. That's going to mess you up, Itachi was almost programing Sasuke what to think there. Itachi knows what he's doing when it comes to Sasuke, he knows how to control him. Haters just don't want to see Sasule's WHOLE character, they want to pick and choose the parts of him that help proved the reasons to hate him. It's pathetic. Naruto is a flawless character, he's perfect at everything. He's the perfect loser, then winner, he can learn everything, yet still retain his I'm a bad student character, he always looks like the outclassed character in a fight, yet not only wins in the end but makes the other character look pathetic, he is a loudmouth boastful character, yet when needed he is humble. Naruto is everything the idea hero is meant to be PERFECT. I hate seeing, because Naruto was a very good character at first, but he seems to be going the way of a male Mary Sue. Sasuke is not perfect, he is very human, he has flaws. He doesn't always win, he's not always the strongest, he can admit mistakes and not admit mistakes. He cares, yet his hate for his brother can blind him. I can understand him completely. Naruto is the one I have a hard time relating to, he's perfect.

Alright. You win. *sigh* This is what happens when I skip parts in the manga. I guess I will have to agree with you on the Sasuke bit, but to make my argument less pathetic, I'll just defend Naruto (you know, to distract from my flawed Sasuke-is-a-butt ramble)

You're right that Naruto's the perfect hero, but the point is that if you have a flawed hero, badly-done angst will definitely follow. Sasuke's "he made me... cry *gasp*" is an example of that. Naruto is not the series where I sit in front of the screen and make fun of everything the main character says and does. I enjoy that- I've been into too many series where I've truly *hated* the main character because s/he was either a love-struck ditz or an angsty pretty boy.

Naruto's been hated his whole life, but he still has the excess courage to prove everyone wrong. It's so perfect and ideal, but at least it's cute. Perfection is only annoying when it's not human in the Mary Sue/Gary-Stu way, not dormant-Kyubi way. The reason people hate Mary Sue is because she gets what she doesn't deserve- if any Mary Sue were put on earth (without her lust-powder), nobody would like her. However, if you put Naruto in the real world, most likely, people would think he's an annoying loudmouth, but he would make friends who see past that, etc... Naruto has an admirable personality, wheareas Mary Sue (and all her relatives) have none.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:36   Link #63
Tron Bonne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
but then again Naruto has NO-IDEA-WHAT-SO-EVER how the kyuubi looks like. He could have just imagine a dog with 9 tails for all we know right? now did u even think of that?

Unless, someone showed him a picture of the kyuubi and I didn't see that part.... hummm...



of course he didn't become the kyuubi. It was just a transformation
He saw Nine Tails, when he was about to die, falling from the cliff, Naruto met Nine Tails in his mind. Plus, don't you think maybe, seeing as how Naruto's home was nearly destroyed by the Nine Tails, maybe he was taught about the Nine Tails in school, maybe even saw a picture of the Nine tails.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:39   Link #64
Truesquirrel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranz
Also, we can't forget posts like "I hate Sasuke because he's stupid" aren't that productive either.
I probably shouldn't argue with a mod, especially a (typically) stressed out and angry one, but what fun is forum life without a little risk.

Stupidity was only one third of the reasoning behind my near unparalleled hatred for Sasuke, but it was based on specific things he did. I'll go through and cite them if you want me to, if only to prove that my opinions aren't as simple as "Sasuke is dumb so I hate him."

I think stating my reasoning for disliking him is the very height of productivity in a thread entitled "Opinion of Sasuke...", whereas turning what I said into something totally unrelated and concerning Naruto is not. (There have been threads like this before, and somebody always makes them into a Naruto vs. Sasuke ordeal. I'd think of all people, you'd hate that the most.)

Anyway, here's hoping I'm not banned.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:41   Link #65
Tron Bonne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_edea
Alright. You win. *sigh* This is what happens when I skip parts in the manga. I guess I will have to agree with you on the Sasuke bit, but to make my argument less pathetic, I'll just defend Naruto (you know, to distract from my flawed Sasuke-is-a-butt ramble)

You're right that Naruto's the perfect hero, but the point is that if you have a flawed hero, badly-done angst will definitely follow. Sasuke's "he made me... cry *gasp*" is an example of that. Naruto is not the series where I sit in front of the screen and make fun of everything the main character says and does. I enjoy that- I've been into too many series where I've truly *hated* the main character because s/he was either a love-struck ditz or an angsty pretty boy.

Naruto's been hated his whole life, but he still has the excess courage to prove everyone wrong. It's so perfect and ideal, but at least it's cute. Perfection is only annoying when it's not human in the Mary Sue/Gary-Stu way, not dormant-Kyubi way. The reason people hate Mary Sue is because she gets what she doesn't deserve- if any Mary Sue were put on earth (without her lust-powder), nobody would like her. However, if you put Naruto in the real world, most likely, people would think he's an annoying loudmouth, but he would make friends who see past that, etc... Naruto has an admirable personality, wheareas Mary Sue (and all her relatives) have none.
Even Mary Sues have flaws, same as Naruto, they then without but a little work overcome these flaws perfectly. Naruto does this, he can't do anything right in the start, then when he stealss the forbidden scroll, that is a HIGH level move, not many high level ninja's are able to do, he's learns it perfectly, just in time to save his teacher, a much more talented ninja, from the bad guy. That is so Mary Sue. Naruto only becomes more Mary Sue as the series moves on.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:43   Link #66
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dammit tron, you beat me to it again. Yes he has met the ninetails and has talked with the ninetails. also he did know about the ninetails before that. In the first episode Iruka asks naruto if naruto knew who the 4th hokage was. naruto said that he learned that he was a powerful ninja that saved the village from an even fox demon. the only thing that the 3rd hokage put a bann on the hole village was telling naruto that the demon fox was inside of him . just incase anybody was going to try and use the " naruto didnt know about the demon fox because hokage put a law about him learning about kyuubi" to defend their point of naruto not knowing of kyuubi
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:44   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truesquirrel
I probably shouldn't argue with a mod, especially a (typically) stressed out and angry one, but what fun is forum life without a little risk.

Stupidity was only one third of the reasoning behind my near unparalleled hatred for Sasuke, but it was based on specific things he did. I'll go through and cite them if you want me to, if only to prove that my opinions aren't as simple as "Sasuke is dumb so I hate him."

I think stating my reasoning for disliking him is the very height of productivity in a thread entitled "Opinion of Sasuke...", whereas turning what I said into something totally unrelated and concerning Naruto is not. (There have been threads like this before, and somebody always makes them into a Naruto vs. Sasuke ordeal. I'd think of all people, you'd hate that the most.)

Anyway, here's hoping I'm not banned.
I'm not arguing against you. Just because I replied to your topic doesn't mean I was referring to you. There was just that one line you said in your quote that I decided to use for a general discussion for everyone which is why you're not marked as being quoted.

I'm merely pointing out that from my experience the "Naruto fanboys" tend NOT to say anything meaningful when talking trash against Sasuke. Usually it is the one-liner of "Sasuke is stupid" without any logical reasoning to back it up. And that my friend, isn't very productive and which is what I was referring to.
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:49   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne
He saw Nine Tails, when he was about to die, falling from the cliff, Naruto met Nine Tails in his mind. Plus, don't you think maybe, seeing as how Naruto's home was nearly destroyed by the Nine Tails, maybe he was taught about the Nine Tails in school, maybe even saw a picture of the Nine tails.
umm.. according to what I saw, all Naruto saw was the kyuubi's eyes and sharp teeth. Everything else was black.

and as to him being taught about the kyuubi, as far as I saw, I've never seen an episode where they were teaching kids about the kyuubi or showing them pictures. I take that from facts, not assumptions. that makes sense, right?
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:53   Link #69
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naruto was told of the ninetails fox anywways by mizuki .... wait wait... are you guyz still saying that gamabunta actually TURNED into the kyuubi????????? is that what you still trying to say. becuase as was stated.. and please dranz .. you know so back me up . it was just a transformation it was still gamabunta just looking like kyuubi. kyuubi is to powrful, he would of just destroyed gaara and shikaku with out a problem
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Old 2004-06-23, 23:59   Link #70
wb_hicks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne
Sasuke WAS learning to have faith in humanity, as you put it, again. READ THE MANGA! Then Itachi comes and forces him to relive the worst day in his life for 24 hours straight. It took Sasuke years to learn to trust and allow people to become close to him again. Itachi comes and tortures him, calling him weak, telling him he's not strong enough yet and to hate more if he wants to defeat him, while he's attacking Sasuke's mind. That's going to mess you up, Itachi was almost programing Sasuke what to think there. Itachi knows what he's doing when it comes to Sasuke, he knows how to control him. Haters just don't want to see Sasuke's WHOLE character, they want to pick and choose the parts of him that help proved the reasons to hate him. It's pathetic. Naruto is a flawless character, he's perfect at everything. He's the perfect loser, then winner, he can learn everything, yet still retain his I'm a bad student character, he always looks like the outclassed character in a fight, yet not only wins in the end but makes the other character look pathetic, he is a loud mouth boastful character, yet when needed he is humble. Naruto is everything the idea hero is meant to be PERFECT. I hate seeing this, because Naruto was a very good character at first, but he seems to be going the way of a male Mary Sue. Sasuke is not perfect, he is very human, he has flaws. He doesn't always win, he's not always the strongest, he can admit mistakes and not admit mistakes. He cares, yet his hate for his brother can blind him. I can understand him completely. Naruto is the one I have a hard time relating to, he's perfect.

i have to agree with you on the sasuke part but you 4got that oro also said that being around the kyubi kid is starting to change him. itachi really did a number on sasuke this time, and now that im thinking about it i think the only reason he wanted to fight naruto so bad was to really test himself. he saw 1st hand naruto's true abilies because you have to amitt naruto through everything and then some at gaara to stop him. his brother has no interest in him but in naruto so he wanted to see the difference between him and naruto. and the difference was great by the damage done to the water tanks. i think sasuke would get alot stronger training under kakashi then he would oro just for the fact that i highly doubt oro is going to train him and if he does he isnt going to make him stronger then he is because he wants his body. kakashi on the other hand was instruction to get sasuke to learn and hopefully master his sharingan.
i wouldnt say naruto is perfect but he is the only shit talker in the series
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:02   Link #71
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I think oro will train him since orochimaru is going to have to wait 2 years anyways to do another body transfer... so he will train sasuke's body to be stronger maybe faster, also maybe help him with his sharingan
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:07   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
are u sure? because wasn't his chakra red indicating that it was the Kyuubi's chakra?

well that's your own opinon. I still think Kyuubi and Naruto are the same.

Hey that hit made sure gaara stayed down. I think I made it clear that that fatal hit left Gaara helpless. I never said that he died with that fatal hit.

then why did u say... "Kabuto, being on the same level as Kakashi, got a dose of Rasengan to the abdomen because he overly underestimated Naruto"??

as I remembered, the sound ninjas didn't want to go after them, or only want a few ninjas after them but kabuto said that they shouldn't underestimate Naruto and sent more ninjas after naruto and them.

do u recall how he did the kage bunshi + the 1000 years of pain? yah, that right there. If he didn't messed gaara up before he turned into that demon, Gaara might have been a stronger demon.

I rest my case.
Alright, I'm cutting this short since I accidently closed the window while I was replying.

Yes, I am positive that Gamabunta lent Naruto his Chakra. No it is a fact that Naruto and Kyubi are two different entities despite what you may think.

Gaara was not dying from the head thing. Naruto can barely move after that either. What was he going to do after he squirms to him? Bite him?

I said that because Kabuto really did get hit by the Rasengan because he was underestimating Naruto. I also said that we don't know how much he underestimates him because we don't know much about Kabuto's attention and whatnot.

Can you point out to me where it says that Kabuto sent extra Sound Nins or Sound Nin's in general to go after Naruto because he thinks that Naruto should not be underestimated?

I don't think that the KageBushin and 1,000 Years of Pain did much to Gaara. If anything, it hindered his transformation but it didn't do much serious damage that secured his victory as you are believing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truesquirrel
I'm too lazy to pick out quotes, so here's my reasoning for why Sasuke sucks. (Yeah, I said it, so bring on the flames.)

His attitude was cool for about...nine seconds. After that, it got old. I don't want to hear anything else about his god damn ambition, and his narcissism doesn't impress me. Most characters in Naruto are pretty one dimensional, but very few of them are as staggeringly annoying about it as Sasuke.

Furthermore, he gets to rant and rave about his strength as long as he can back it up, which means he doesn't. He has been beaten thoroughly on several occasions, but never seems to let that stand in the way of his ego.

He seems to ignore the fact that Konoha is filled with ninjas stronger and/or smarter than he is, and is hell bent on rushing to serve a master he now knows wants him for nothing but his body. Arrogant and stupid, a combination not to be taken lightly.

For those angry Sasuke followers who complain that Neji has much the same attitude, so why don't I complain about him, I have a wonderful answer. Unlike Sasuke, Neji stopped. He followed that rule up above, about getting to be a dick as long as he could back it up. He lost to Naruto and then stopped. He shut up about destiny and fate and strength and became exponentially less of an asshole. Too bad Sasuke only seems to be tolerable on the verge of death. It's my personal opinion that he should be put into such a position more often. I almost felt bad when he "died." I now regret that he didn't.
Yes, most characters in NARUTO has pretty much a rotten life but unlike most characters in NARUTO, Sasuke's problems comes back again and again to fuck him up. For the most part, he hasn't been whining to people about how his life sucks; he does it in his head.

There hasn't been much occasion where he rants and raves about his superiority. What he thinks is another thing entirely. If getting beat up all the time does not hurt his "ego," he would not be having such thoughts such as "When did Naruto get this strong?" or "How can I gain that kind of power?"

He is seemingly aware of the fact of that there are strong people in Konoha. Take the Chuunin exam for example where he seeks to answer, "Am I strong?" He is hell bent on trying to get strong because of the chain effects that have been happening to his already crappy life.

Yes, Neji stopped being a jerk, but that's only because Naruto changed that. Neji is out of the darkness as opposed to Sasuke who is so far gone then he doesn't even comprehend the fact that Orochimaru want to take his damn body. Just as Neji shut up about fate, Sasuke will shut up about ambition once Naruto puts some sense into him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
umm.. according to what I saw, all Naruto saw was the kyuubi's eyes and sharp teeth. Everything else was black.

and as to him being taught about the kyuubi, as far as I saw, I've never seen an episode where they were teaching kids about the kyuubi or showing them pictures. I take that from facts, not assumptions. that makes sense, right?
Surely it's not hard to imagine Kyubi after the eyes, the teeths. Given the description that Gamabunta gave him about claws and nails. He knows that it's a fox and it has nine tails. He knows that the chakra is red. Put everything together and voila! Henge-Kyubi.

Anyways, it is of little importance of how Naruto imagined Kyubi. The fact is, Naruto and Gamabunta did a combination Henge to turn into Kyubi. It was a tranformation in appearance.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:11   Link #73
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kabuto did send sound nins after naruto , shikamaru, sakura , and pakkun to stop them , and he did tell them not to underestemate naruto. I do remember it. but i dont know if he sent extra becuase it was naruto.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:15   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenikkusu
naruto was told of the ninetails fox anywways by mizuki .... wait wait... are you guyz still saying that gamabunta actually TURNED into the kyuubi????????? is that what you still trying to say. becuase as was stated.. and please dranz .. you know so back me up . it was just a transformation it was still gamabunta just looking like kyuubi. kyuubi is to powrful, he would of just destroyed gaara and shikaku with out a problem

in the manga it was just a plan fox but they changed it to kyubi in the anime. i guess it give the ideal of how its demon vs demon fight. i just wonder if naruto is going to change bunta to look like kyubi again and this time be kyubi naruto and give charka to gumbunta in a fight tht would be bad ass
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:17   Link #75
Last of the Uchiha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
umm.. according to what I saw, all Naruto saw was the kyuubi's eyes and sharp teeth. Everything else was black.

and as to him being taught about the kyuubi, as far as I saw, I've never seen an episode where they were teaching kids about the kyuubi or showing them pictures. I take that from facts, not assumptions. that makes sense, right?

PerniciousJuJu i can't believe that you said earlier that Naruto used his own chraka to henge Gamabunta into Kyuubi and the headbutt that Naruto gave Gaara was fatal. Have you ever stop to think that Naruto would know how Kyuubi looks likes since he live inside of him. Also, someone said something about how Naruto didn't look completly at Kyuubi whole body, so he doesn't know how he looks like. Shit, the whole name kind of give you an idea how he looks like. A fox with nine tails, how hard can that be.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:19   Link #76
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in the manga it looked like kyuubi as well.. i dont remember if it had the nine tails or not but the head and arms looked like kyuubi. but yea , that was how the arguement started was sumone saying that gamabunta actually became kyuubi. when it was just a transformation to look like kyuubi
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:19   Link #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dranz
I'm not arguing against you. Just because I replied to your topic doesn't mean I was referring to you. There was just that one line you said in your quote that I decided to use for a general discussion for everyone which is why you're not marked as being quoted.

I'm merely pointing out that from my experience the "Naruto fanboys" tend NOT to say anything meaningful when talking trash against Sasuke. Usually it is the one-liner of "Sasuke is stupid" without any logical reasoning to back it up. And that my friend, isn't very productive and which is what I was referring to.
Sorry about the misunderstanding, then. Guess I got a little defensive there
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:20   Link #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
and as to him being taught about the kyuubi, as far as I saw, I've never seen an episode where they were teaching kids about the kyuubi or showing them pictures. I take that from facts, not assumptions. that makes sense, right?
Actually, we KNOW they were not taught, since when Sasuke saw the Henge-ed Gamabunta, he wondered "why a giant fox?" and didn't mension Kyuubi at all
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:22   Link #79
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they were not taught , but atleast naruto heard rumors about the 4th beating a giant fox demon . and iruka was talkin to him about the 4th so it would seem to me that sasuke would have heard of the 4th beatin a fox demon as well. but since sasuke doesnt know about kyuubi being inside of naruto i'm sure he wouldnt make the conection as to why naruto would pick a fox.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:32   Link #80
Tron Bonne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi
Actually, we KNOW they were not taught, since when Sasuke saw the Henge-ed Gamabunta, he wondered "why a giant fox?" and didn't mension Kyuubi at all
Sasuke said WHY a fox. He was wondering why Naruto would choose a fox. This doesn't proved he didn't know that was Nine Tails, Sasuke just didn't understand why Naruto would choose a fox.
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