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View Poll Results: Sasuke.........
He is still as cool now as he was before. Sasuke for life! 55 16.87%
Give the guy some slack, after all his entire family was murdered 56 17.18%
Never liked him, never hated him 81 24.85%
Yeah, I am beginning to hate him now. 45 13.80%
Sasuke deserves to die! A.S.S for life! 89 27.30%
Voters: 326. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-06-24, 00:35   Link #81
fenikkusu
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hahaha tron .. beat ya to it this time . but i'm not sure how much any1 was able to tell of the 4th fight with kyuubi. i know they oboviosly heard sumthing about it . since naruto knew about it and his memory obviously sucks .
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:35   Link #82
sheen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenikkusu
kabuto did send sound nins after naruto , shikamaru, sakura , and pakkun to stop them , and he did tell them not to underestemate naruto. I do remember it. but i dont know if he sent extra becuase it was naruto.
I skimmed through epsidode 69: 8 Sound Nin's holding one of Kabuto's Chakra card of Naruto and saying that that is who they are after. I do not remember anything about Kabuto saying not to underestimate Naruto or him sending reinforcements because of it.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:37   Link #83
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ohhh.. i dont reember what it said in the manga . i rmemeber in the anime he told them not to underestemate them. i just rmeember that becuase it was more recent. maybe that was added in the anime.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:44   Link #84
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Even Mary Sues have flaws, same as Naruto, they then without but a little work overcome these flaws perfectly. Naruto does this, he can't do anything right in the start, then when he stealss the forbidden scroll, that is a HIGH level move, not many high level ninja's are able to do, he's learns it perfectly, just in time to save his teacher, a much more talented ninja, from the bad guy. That is so Mary Sue. Naruto only becomes more Mary Sue as the series moves on.

I don't see how Naruto's ninja skills make him Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue's biggest flaw is that the readers can't identify w/ her. Naruto's flaw is that he's too talented, nice, etc... for his own good, but is it really a flaw? Ultra-cool fighting success is a predominant trait in a Mary Sue, and it's annoying because it overshadows the main character and the plot. Naruto, on the other hand, is canon. He is the main character of the show. He's allowed to be powerful because it's fact. Does the fact that he has Kyuubi interfere with the plot? No, because it IS the plot.

While I am annoyed a little that Naruto never loses (and hence am always rooting for whoever he is fighting with), he's too lovable to not forgive. There are so many other series out there with characters that would classify as Mary Sue so much more than Naruto that the whole thing just seems like one badly-done original fiction.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:50   Link #85
Don Roberto
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For all those who were pointing out the whole Kabuto telling the Sound to not underestmate Naruto scene, I checked and am pretty sure that that scene is not in the manga.

Spoiler for The orders given to the sound:


As you can see, it appears as though the Sound just followed them of their own will.
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Old 2004-06-24, 00:53   Link #86
fenikkusu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Roberto
For all those who were pointing out the whole Kabuto telling the Sound to not underestmate Naruto scene, I checked and am pretty sure that that scene is not in the manga.

Spoiler for The orders given to the sound:


As you can see, it appears as though the Sound just followed them of their own will.
thats what i just said... i said that i dont rememger it being in the manga but i know that it was in the anime , it was just added in the anime is all . thats where every1 is getting it from . the anime kabuto tells them to fallow them and says not to underestamate naruto in the anime
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Old 2004-06-24, 01:32   Link #87
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About Sasuke, I like him now, because he isn't an overcocky punk, and he's actually strong. Before I just found hi annoying, thinking he was king dingoling and crap
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Old 2004-06-24, 01:42   Link #88
sheen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Roberto
For all those who were pointing out the whole Kabuto telling the Sound to not underestmate Naruto scene, I checked and am pretty sure that that scene is not in the manga.

Spoiler for The orders given to the sound:


As you can see, it appears as though the Sound just followed them of their own will.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 2004-06-24, 03:33   Link #89
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Sasuke is Bi@#$ because of the fact that he is the "cool" character, as as such we the viewer/reader hate to see him go down such an obvisouly evil path. You understand if he falls and stumbles, but he's not suppose to betray his village and his fellow ninjas.

For those that say that sasuke is as arrogant as neiji/naruto/lee i think you're wrong. I wouldn't call naruto/lee arrogrant. They are just extremely confident (yes there is a subtle different between arrogance and confidence). Lee/Naruto do not believe they are the best, they merely believe "I can be the best. I just have to work at it. If it work at it, no one can beat me" whereas sasuke passes off as the type of character who shouts "STFU! I am the best!" He is the genius who "assumes" he is and will always remain the best. Of course, when he sees that he is not, his reality comes crashing apart, and it leads to the the A$$h%# character we see now.

just my two cents.
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Old 2004-06-24, 04:42   Link #90
psycoking
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I never really hated sasuke. . .
until I read the last chapter.

Throughout most of the series (except the current arc) kashimoto has left sasuke's character undeveloped. Of course he did this on purpose by leaving sasuke out of various parts of the manga (last 6 chapters of the Zabuza arc, the Chunin exam prelims, etc.). But this just left a cool mystery in his character since kashimoto could have choosen to develope him in any direction. To tell the truth, when he betrayed the leaf for his own selfish ambitions I thought it made him a little cooler, because by having him do so kashimoto defined sasuke as a character. It defined sasuke as a someone who would do anything to gain power.

However, ever since he's gotten out of the porta-poty of doom, my esteem for him as a character has gone down. First off, he runs from Naruto, even though in the setup to this arc he wanted to fight naruto just so he could prove he was strong. Secondly, he's already started kukuku-ing like orochimaro, even though he hasn't spent any time with MJ's evil twin. And finally, this last flashback just killed it for me.

So Sasuke was a kid with low self-esteem, living in his brothers shadow, who tried his hardest just to get a tiny bit of affection tossed his way. Now, he's acknowledged as the strongest genin from his academy class, considered a gifted ninja by those that know him, and lavished with love by the ladies of the leaf. . .
and he's still not happy. Stop whining bitch! This flashback turned sasuke from a cool guy in search of power, to a whiny little priss who wants his perfect little childhood back "*sniff* My brother use to love me so. . ."

Then again I guess this does make his a good contrast with naruto. Both were neglected as children. But Sasuke quickly gained acknowledgement and ended up taking it for granted. Whereas Naruto was only acknowledged recently (within the last year of his life) and is holding on tightly to any bit of love he gets.

To sum up (bolded so those too lazy to read can jump straight here ). I think the latest chapter in the manga took sasuke down a notch by turning him from a power seeking badass to a wuss with a "lost childhood" complex.
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Old 2004-06-24, 05:38   Link #91
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Never liked him, Never hated him. seriously, i never really noticed him very much (yeah, even the current arc which is about him, i was just interested to see how Chouji, Shikamaru Kiba and Neji fight), i guess he didnt really stand out that much as a character for me to like. he's just another one of those characters, that are needed in a manga so that the main character has a rival.
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Old 2004-06-24, 08:03   Link #92
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maybe the leaf are playing a trick to get him into enemy hands so he can be a spy.
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Old 2004-06-24, 08:48   Link #93
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i don't really care bout the whole sasuke-fanboy vs naruto-fanboy crap cuz its a never ending debate...but one thing that does get annoying about sasuke is that....hes damn boring!!...he so damn serious all the time...makes me wanna like...fast forward the anime at some point...multiple occasions of the same flashback over and over again...or his dead serious attitude...

naruto sense of humor brings life to the series....i'd be damned if both naruto and sasuke are the same....also...the fact that naruto puts up with the bs he gets in life is another quality...hes been an outcast his whole life...but he juz laughs it off...

both characters have their own background stories that led them that way...so why do people still argue...the writer wants sasuke this way....and naruto that way....u either love it or hate it...live with it...
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Old 2004-06-24, 09:08   Link #94
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ok, here's what I think will be going on. first off, naruto and susuke, even though they r friends in their hearts they r each others arch enemies. this has been clear from the moment sasuke was introduced. Know I guess the rivalry will only escalate, but it will not be naruto who defeats Sasuke in what I think will be their first battle. I think Sasuke will win and become more n more evil, but he will spare Naruto. Naruto will then vow to destroy sasuke and a very interesting story should unfold

or

at first Naruto will lose to Sasuke, but then all of the guys who tried to go n get him bundle up against him, Sasuke not able to at first understand the why of this will eventually chose his friends and find his power in that, he will see why it is that Naruto is so strong, he will come to understand the heart of the leaf and perhaps come to terms with his past (but still aching to kill Itachi offcourse, but now no longer alone)

I should say that the first option is more appealing to me, and I do hope that this will come to pass, but I fear it's gonna be number two, because that is more in the line of the overall manga.

anyway, had my say bout that, so for me Sasuke will remain sasuke, and his tragic only makes him so much more cooler.
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Old 2004-06-24, 10:25   Link #95
PerniciousJuJu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
Gaara was not dying from the head thing. Naruto can barely move after that either. What was he going to do after he squirms to him? Bite him?
I thought I made it clear that Gaara was NOT dying because of that "fatal" headbut. As for the word "fatal" it was just a figure of speech. I said that that "fatal" hit left him helpless.. not that fatal hit left him dying. *rolls eyes* And as for him moving afterwards, technically he was moving. I don't understand why you just won't accept the fact that Naruto was just simply "moving". Ture, he can barely move but he was "moving". And about Naruto biting him when he gets there, well if Sasuke wouldn't have interrupted, who knows what Naruto would have done. I guess, we'll never know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
I said that because Kabuto really did get hit by the Rasengan because he was underestimating Naruto. I also said that we don't know how much he underestimates him because we don't know much about Kabuto's attention and whatnot.
In your reply, you used "Overly underestimated". 2 negative words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
Can you point out to me where it says that Kabuto sent extra Sound Nins or Sound Nin's in general to go after Naruto because he thinks that Naruto should not be underestimated?
I also reviewed the episode, my mistake. But he did tell the sound nin to be cautious when the sound nin said that it was no big deal or something like that. -in other words don't underestimate them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
I don't think that the KageBushin and 1,000 Years of Pain did much to Gaara. If anything, it hindered his transformation but it didn't do much serious damage that secured his victory as you are believing.
I've already rest my case about Naruto's craftiness.
If I was to say more, I would be repeating the examples I gave you earlier and I don't like to repeat myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
Yes, most characters in NARUTO has pretty much a rotten life but unlike most characters in NARUTO, Sasuke's problems comes back again and again to fuck him up. For the most part, he hasn't been whining to people about how his life sucks; he does it in his head.
and waht of Neji's situation?? He has the damn mark on his forehead!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
There hasn't been much occasion where he rants and raves about his superiority. What he thinks is another thing entirely. If getting beat up all the time does not hurt his "ego," he would not be having such thoughts such as "When did Naruto get this strong?" or "How can I gain that kind of power?"
he doesn't need to say it, his attitude says it for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
Yes, Neji stopped being a jerk, but that's only because Naruto changed that. Neji is out of the darkness as opposed to Sasuke who is so far gone then he doesn't even comprehend the fact that Orochimaru want to take his damn body. Just as Neji shut up about fate, Sasuke will shut up about ambition once Naruto puts some sense into him.
didn't Naruto tried slapping some sense into him in 219? 220?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheen
Surely it's not hard to imagine Kyubi after the eyes, the teeths. Given the description that Gamabunta gave him about claws and nails. He knows that it's a fox and it has nine tails. He knows that the chakra is red. Put everything together and voila! Henge-Kyubi.
Anyways, it is of little importance of how Naruto imagined Kyubi. The fact is, Naruto and Gamabunta did a combination Henge to turn into Kyubi. It was a tranformation in appearance.
I never did say it was "the Kyuubi" itself. I clearly stated that it was a transformation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last_of_the_uchiha
PerniciousJuJu i can't believe that you said earlier that Naruto used his own chraka to henge Gamabunta into Kyuubi and the headbutt that Naruto gave Gaara was fatal. Have you ever stop to think that Naruto would know how Kyuubi looks likes since he live inside of him. Also, someone said something about how Naruto didn't look completly at Kyuubi whole body, so he doesn't know how he looks like. Shit, the whole name kind of give you an idea how he looks like. A fox with nine tails, how hard can that be.
yes, I did say that he used his chakra to henge into the Kyuubi but you left out the part where I also agreed that he used his chakra and gumbunta's chakra. and about the "fatal" thing, please check my other posts for explainations. So if it's inside of him and he never knew that it was inside of him, how does he know what it looked like? We were never told that he actually got a good look at the kyuubi. Oh let me assuer u that it would be hard for naruto to imagine what the fax looks like. FOr one, he didnt even know what a frog looked like.. LOL

I don't feel like there's anything else for me to say becuase just as I thouhgt, you guys only read what you want to read.
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Old 2004-06-24, 11:01   Link #96
Anthriel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
he doesn't need to say it, his attitude says it for him.
In other words, there is no evidence for him being arrogant, however, you think of him as arrogant, so it's easier to bash him. Right?
Honestly ... Naruto constantly brags, whereas Sasuke does not. Even though, people call Sasuke arrogant. I just don't get it.
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Old 2004-06-24, 11:14   Link #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
In other words, there is no evidence for him being arrogant, however, you think of him as arrogant, so it's easier to bash him. Right?
Honestly ... Naruto constantly brags, whereas Sasuke does not. Even though, people call Sasuke arrogant. I just don't get it.
A wise man once told me that action speaks louder than words.
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Old 2004-06-24, 11:15   Link #98
nh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthriel
In other words, there is no evidence for him being arrogant, however, you think of him as arrogant, so it's easier to bash him. Right?
Honestly ... Naruto constantly brags, whereas Sasuke does not. Even though, people call Sasuke arrogant. I just don't get it.
That's your argument? There's no evidence? Have you not been paying attention to the story? What was Sasuke's words to Naruto on the hospital roof? Why did he say it?
Sasuke is arrogant. He has got an arrogant attitude.
Naruto is arrogant. He has got a loose attitude (although he is starting to think and become more like a ninja now... Damn you Kishimoto).
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Old 2004-06-24, 11:35   Link #99
sheen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
I thought I made it clear that Gaara was NOT dying because of that "fatal" headbut. As for the word "fatal" it was just a figure of speech. I said that that "fatal" hit left him helpless.. not that fatal hit left him dying. *rolls eyes* And as for him moving afterwards, technically he was moving. I don't understand why you just won't accept the fact that Naruto was just simply "moving". Ture, he can barely move but he was "moving". And about Naruto biting him when he gets there, well if Sasuke wouldn't have interrupted, who knows what Naruto would have done. I guess, we'll never know.
The last time I checked, fatal is an adjective that means capable of causing death. And Gaara was far from dead from the headbut. Figure of speech or not, it does not change the definition of the word. And contrary to your belief of people only reading what they want to read, I was reading the sentense as it was structured; and it implys that the hit was capable of causing death (fatal).

I did say that if you considering squirming moving, then sure he is moving. As far as I'm concerned, twitching can also be a form of movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
In your reply, you used "Overly underestimated". 2 negative words.


I also reviewed the episode, my mistake. But he did tell the sound nin to be cautious when the sound nin said that it was no big deal or something like that. -in other words don't underestimate them.
Overly is an adjective I used. Kabuto underestimated Naruto to the degree (overly underestimated) where Naruto was able to land the Rasengan on him.

If you have read the posts above, you would see that the issue was been resolved. The Kabuto-Sound Nin interaction was an anime-thing that was not in the manga. In the manga, the Sound Nin just took off after them. Kabuto was not involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
I've already rest my case about Naruto's craftiness.
If I was to say more, I would be repeating the examples I gave you earlier and I don't like to repeat myself.
I agree with you that Naruto is crafty; however, I do not agree with you that Naruto's craftiness contributed to his victory over Gaara. That is where our views differ. Frankly, I do not like repeating myself either.

"How did Naruto's craftiness lead to his victory in the fight against Gaara? His craftiness may have been a factor against Neji, but I don't remember anything intelligently creative against Gaara."

The only example that you have provided is the replication and the explosive note stunt which had only hindered Gaara's transformation and not as you say, "ticket to his victory."

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
and waht of Neji's situation?? He has the damn mark on his forehead!
Yea, and Neji wasn't a jerk until Naruto kicked his ass? What's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
he doesn't need to say it, his attitude says it for him.
Uh...you would think that he was always like that right from when he was a child wouldn't you? He has a fucked up life and unlike the other characters, Orochimaru and Itachi has been reviving his past again and again. Before he can heal from the damage of one mental assault, he gets another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
didn't Naruto tried slapping some sense into him in 219? 220?
Key word being "tried." Has Naruto successfully knock some sense into him?

Let me assure you that Sasuke was being less of a jerk up until the Gaara arc. He WAS beginning to let Team 7 in. He was willing to die for Naruto and Sakura knowing that he has lost everything before, he was not willing to let his "precious people" die again.

Then Naruto comes along with the chakra of Kyubi and proceeds to kick Gaara's ass whom Sasuke had trouble with. Sasuke reflects on Naruto's power and says "when did Naruto get this strong?" and "how can I gain that sort of power?" without knowing that he has Kyubi. He, thus, concludes that he is not progressing fast enough.

....if you really want to read about, let me direct you to this post (http://www.narutotalk.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=37) and this thread (http://www.narutotalk.com/showthread...0&page=1&pp=15) in another forum which has managed to change my mind about Sasuke's character. Hence, I am here arguing on his behalf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
I never did say it was "the Kyuubi" itself. I clearly stated that it was a transformation.
I was not referring to you, as I was not referring to you for half of the post that you were replying to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PerniciousJuJu
yes, I did say that he used his chakra to henge into the Kyuubi but you left out the part where I also agreed that he used his chakra and gumbunta's chakra. and about the "fatal" thing, please check my other posts for explainations. So if it's inside of him and he never knew that it was inside of him, how does he know what it looked like? We were never told that he actually got a good look at the kyuubi. Oh let me assuer u that it would be hard for naruto to imagine what the fax looks like. FOr one, he didnt even know what a frog looked like.. LOL

I don't feel like there's anything else for me to say becuase just as I thouhgt, you guys only read what you want to read.
I believe that Naruto was already out chakra when he henge into Kyubi. And really, Kyubi and Naruto are two different entities. It doesn't matter how he came to imagine how the Kyubi looks like. The only thing that matters and should be set straight is that Naruto did not TURN INTO the Kyubi but merely transformed in appearance. (the last sentence was not directed at you btw)

You should talk.
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Old 2004-06-24, 12:42   Link #100
PerniciousJuJu
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I'm not gonna argue my piont again and again and again.

but about the Neji thing, I just wanted to point out that u said that "most characters in NARUTO has pretty much a rotten life but unlike most characters in NARUTO, Sasuke's problems comes back again and again to fuck him up. For the most part, he hasn't been whining to people about how his life sucks; he does it in his head. " My point was that Sasuke isn't the only one who has problems that comes back again and again. Neji also has the curse seal on his forehead to remind him every second of every day. True, sasuke hasn't been whining about how much his life sucks, but like I said, sometimes action speaks louder than words.


Oh and I knew you weren't implying to me I just feel like pissing you off. Seems like I did a good job. and just so u know I didn't read half of what u said because it was too long and you're just probably repeating yourself.

For the last time, I rest my case.
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