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Old 2004-06-29, 10:45   Link #21
wnkryo
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: new york city
Quote:
Originally Posted by microlith
I just don't know what to say.

Oh yes, yes I do:

Thanks for admitting you're just a fucking leech, and wholly undeserving of that which you enjoy. Please screw off.

ugh, that attitude grates on my nerves so much....

You know when you download anime from bittorrent your leeching from others right?

And before you pop your bubble agian like an idiot, did you actualy read what I wrote? If you think you did, Please tell me where I said I admitted to being a leech or any thing of that sort?

Next time take your foot out of your mouth before you talk.
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Old 2004-06-29, 11:11   Link #22
Yebyosh
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South East Asia
Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
That's true.... I'm still pretty n00b at all of this, but even though that is reassuring, unfortunately I have yet to see a download site for anime that is meant for R3 people. It's really a pity...
There are lots of download sites targeted towards R3 fansubs. They just don't have English fansubs. Actually they pretty much don't care even if the series has been R3-licensed... As such, the downtime of mircx didn't have any effect on the Asian fansub scene at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wao
It would be nice if there were more companies to bring over other anime titles (I'd love to see Princess Tutu, Gunslinger Girls, Kodomo no Omocha and such things), advertise them appropriately and release them at appropriate prices (VCD is also a more popular format here so selling them as VCDs is one option). Or at least to see current companies doing more... like Odex... oi
The legit Taiwan media companies have lots of titles, unfortunately it seems they are either concentrating on their own local market (so as to prevent dilution of efforts, thereby avoiding increased costs) and/or they have found overseas markets for their products weak. Odex used to release on DVD but now switched to VCD in the face of declining revenues from the DVDs. The contributing factors to this are still largely
1. Anime is mostly viewed in Asia as kiddies stuff (actually this is quite a worldwide opinion) but in Asia where material concerns are evaluated heavily, it is a stronger factor than in the West
2. Pirates with dirt cheap copies are everywhere. Funny enough, for most of the people here, getting something for $2 is very desirable when the official product is $20, even when the pirated version is extremely pixelated with 'echoing' sounds. Its even more funny when they don't even bother with downloading 'free' versions.
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Old 2004-06-29, 11:25   Link #23
dreamless
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Hmm... you mean Asia outside of Japan right?

And now in Singapore it's very hard to differentiate between bootlegged versions and the official legit versions, especially when released on VCD... also the quality of those "official legit" ones aren't that good to begin with... And I've seen some chinese pirated/bootlegged DVDs having more extra stuff in them and better video/audio quality than those official legit VCDs... some of them even have translated color-printed character/plot manuals and calender and stuff, almost like they have got the Japanese DVDs and translated everything including the extras... it's very tempting to get them instead of those legit VCDs which only has a box and the discs =.="
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Old 2004-06-29, 11:50   Link #24
wao
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Gah, sorry Yebyosh, yes I meant English fansubs. I know there are loads of Chinese fansubs out there (Where do I get my MoO fix from otherwise? @_@) at places like greedland and what not, but it limits it to mostly chinese-speaking/reading populations. What about people who don't understand Chinese? Tough luck for them? So yes, I haven't found a site that specifically lets R3 viewer IPs in and serves English-fansubbed anime.

And heck, if I was going to get pirated versions then I might as well download off sites because it's one crime for another and I can't be bothered going around looking for those little stalls selling vcds :P

I have to say some legit VCDs are worse than some bootlegs, my friend showed me this pirated Nausicaa VCD which was way better than my Odex Arjuna VCDs... and now I'm going offtopic again.

The link is the whole thing about mircx-like sites being closed down and us folks complaining. I guess it can't be helped; it is more important for them to stem off illegal distribution of licensed anime than to think about our entertainment... I really have to start listening during Chinese lessons I didn't even know what a 要塞 was...

(And dreamless, yeah I'm talking mostly S-E Asia, China, maybe Korea and such. South Asia has, for the most, not even heard of anime before, even the priviledged ones [Okay, I suppose even in China those in poverty wouldn't really know what anime was?])
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Old 2004-06-29, 13:56   Link #25
MwyC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
heh, I'd love to see ADV try sue someone in Comoro Islands, or maybe they can hire some CIA agents to blow up the server in Comoro Islands? but that'd be a terrorist attack
Comoros

Comoros Islands
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Old 2004-06-29, 14:26   Link #26
Dark
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it looks like ADV was able to take the server down since it is no longer up... but now were will I be able to find new jdrama torrents now?...
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Old 2004-06-29, 14:43   Link #27
microlith
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Quote:
You know when you download anime from bittorrent your leeching from others right?
Oh yes, yes, but there's a difference between being a leech and being an ungrateful leech who doesn't contribute in the slightest to what he enjoys. Worse yet is one who acts all untouchable and how it's some worthy cause to rip others work off.

Quote:
did you actualy read what I wrote?
Yes I did, and I found it to be quite annoying.

Quote:
If you think you did, Please tell me where I said I admitted to being a leech or any thing of that sort?
You didn't have to admit to it. It was plainly obvious by your attitude. Your trumpeting of the fact that "you can not stop p2p programs from distributing your shit" and "and you will see how much your pathetic lisence doesn't mean any thing on the web" and "Basically, all this lisences and copyrights don't mean much this day in age." leads me to conclude that:

- You enjoy anime
and
- You do not in any significant way contribute to its success opting rather to get it for free and promote only ways that it can be had for free, citing the above nonsense to anyone who tries to interfere, as though you're entitled to take the fruits of someone else's labor for free.

I am sure the folks at ADV are aware that they cannot stop it fully. They're only making it more difficult to distribute freely (since no one who is has the right to.) But people like you who gloat that "haha we can get it all for free so fuck you" and rub it in their faces don't serve much purpose other than as an irritant and a discouragement to those who do create.

At least Animesuki abides by the fansub rules followed that many of the people at ADV followed when they did fansubs. It's why Animesuki is still around while mircx is GONE.
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Old 2004-06-29, 14:45   Link #28
xris
Just call me Ojisan
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark
it looks like ADV was able to take the server down since it is no longer up... but now were will I be able to find new jdrama torrents now?...
What about using these sites

#japan-tv
tv-nihon or tv-nihon
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Old 2004-06-29, 16:06   Link #29
hentai_wolf
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baba
2 - Setting up a bank account in a country where you can evade normal tax laws to avoid paying your taxes like a normal citizen.

I find it funny to see that number "1" is being considered as a depictable and highly illegal action by the very people who are doing number "2" (i.e. the CEO of big media compagnies)....
You know, I see people complain about this a lot, and I often get the impression that people think when a person or a corporation sets up a bank account (or the corporation itself) in another country with more liberal tax laws they think that person or corporation can avoid all the taxes it owes, and that's clearly not the case.

If you're a US citizen and someone pays you a million dollars and you deposit that money in an offshore tax haven, you still owe the government taxes on that money. Not paying those taxes is illegal. And it doesn't matter whether you made the money in the US or not.

The same is true for a company that is incorporated in the US. They owe taxes their entire worldwide profit. Even if the money never comes close to US soil, they still have to pay taxes on it.

Now, what many companies (and even a few people) do is incoporate in (or emigrate to) other countries so they don't have to pay taxes on profit from sales outside the US. They still have to pay taxes for any profit their US subsidary mades, and every transaction between the parent company and the subsidiary must be a reasonable transaction.
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Old 2004-06-29, 16:22   Link #30
cf18
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Join Date: Apr 2003
I got one question for ADV: Do ADV cares if a store that sells their licensed products, also sells bootleg anime DVD not covered by ADV? (e.g.)

I mean, who care if my business partner do illegal business and screw with others, as long as they don't screw with me, right?
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Old 2004-06-29, 22:19   Link #31
Dio
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Damnit, I had a feeling somthing was wrong when my Urusei Yatsura batch 3 torrent couldnt find a tracker. And I cant sem to find those episodes ANYWHERE else, buy or DL.

Why couldnt ADV just tell them to get rid of the trackers with their anime instead of bringing the whole site down. Hopfully ADV loses the case after this.
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Old 2004-06-30, 00:05   Link #32
Superchop
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dio
Why couldnt ADV just tell them to get rid of the trackers with their anime instead of bringing the whole site down. Hopfully ADV loses the case after this.
That's what they did...they asked those sites to remove all things they had licensed....but it is very hard to sort through all the torrents that they have listed to get rid of ONLY the one's ADV want's them to get rid of...and while they have to sort through them they want the site down until they can finish sorting...

"Hopfully" huh...yeah you can hope...doesn't mean it'll come true....
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Old 2004-06-30, 00:50   Link #33
panianna
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Calm down, people. This site is up and running. It was not ADV's fault. It was yje most banal thing nowadays DDoS attack. The sad news is that another site is down. You remember that site with a strict sharing policy we discussed few weeks ago? That archive is gone. Forever.
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Old 2004-06-30, 00:57   Link #34
eXistenZ
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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the mircx replacment is working fine for me. trackers and all.

iffin i was running that site i add in a block for adv ip's. along with other anime companys ip's that i could find, it may not totally stop them but it would slow them down.

<slightly off topic>

ya know what i find kinda an oxymoron in statements is this.

adv and such claim that fansub populairty and such have almost no bearing on thier purchasing decisions. that they dont even figure fansub watchers into thier sales cause they say we dont provide them with sales.

so if this is the case, why do they jump on the back of fansubbers and distros, they dont see them as sales or potential sales. 10,000 leechers of naruto isnt considered a base for sales to them. Japanese Studios dont usally have a problem with fansubs coz we arent considered sales to them, they offer the anime free anyways coz ads pay the tv stations who in turn pay them.

im not saying who is right or who is wrong, after all, you follow your own ethics and morals. mine aint the same as yours and vice verse.

yes i download anime, licensed and unlicensed, why because i cant simply afford to buy every dvd for every series, i rent, and occasionaly buy, but most of my anime is from fansubs. yes i work, but no i cant afford, i cant even pay all the bills i have now. go ahead sue me, ya still aint getting money and ya still not gonna make me buy. btw if ya sue me ya will have to step in line, i owe lots of other money to other companys first. by the time it comes up to your turn ill have nothing to give, ill be living on the street finding ways to watch fansubs.

anime is not a niche market in north america anymore.
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Old 2004-06-30, 05:36   Link #35
chibikit
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Just a short disclaimer. Those of you who've read my rare posts here know that I'm heavily pro-"fansubbing-is-relevant" and very disdainful of the R1 licensing companies' practices. You'll know that I'm from R3 and you'll know that the only real feasible alternative to fansubs we have here are the less-than-legit HK/Taiwan DVDs. My ethics and stances are mine to believe and I don't force them upon anybody. I'm just here so everyone knows where I'm coming from, okay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXistenZ
anime is not a niche market in north america anymore.
And this is a fact that many people on both sides of the debate tend to gloss over.

Those who think fansubbing should just die off because it's not a niche market in North America anymore forget that it is still a niche market in other Regions, and English fansubbing is a major help in drumming up that interest considering that those Regions don't all speak the same language; hell, even within the borders of some Regions, few nations speak the same language. English is the current lingua franca and it would be Ameri-centric to think that only North America, Britain and Australia should be covered by the fansubbing mission of "bringing anime into mainstream awareness". Don't pretend that this awareness can be brought about by other-language fansubbing.

Those who think the R1 licensing companies should bugger off and leave fansubbers be forget that the "gentlemen's agreement" once followed was only useful to those companies when the R1 anime market was still a niche. Nowadays, the market is larger than a bunch of wannabe otakus and these comapnies are plain scared that Joe Sixpack's Pokemon-junkie kid will suddenly discover this wealth of free stuff around. It stands to reason that they're getting more strict about it because the service that fansubs provided - free advertising - is no longer as effective on newcomers as the ads they can buy today.

(Note: anti-fansubbers, don't try to twist that by saying fansubbers are to blame; we all know that ripping has happened even when the market wasn't mainstream, and did we see any litigation threats on the scale we do today? No.)

So here's a suggestion to both anti-fansubbers and anti-licensers: drop it. Fansubbing is probably more of a liability to R1 than an asset and things are never going to return to the innocent days of yore. Yet, it's still a major asset in other Regions, so please don't be bloody selfish in your desire to see more anime on R1 DVDs and do things that effectively deny us the pleasure of seeing the same titles in our respective Regions for a good price... without enriching the true pirates.

How does this tie in with boxtorrents et al. being hit allegedly by ADV? Simply this: I view these actions as disdain by the R1 companies for the fansubbers who not only form a major part of their potential customer base but can be instrumental in tapping other markets as well. It hasn't gotten to the level of the RIAA actions, but it has the potential to be so and that is the last thing any of us really want. True, R1 companies have the right and the need to defend their works but not at the cost of the progress of anime awareness.
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Old 2004-06-30, 05:58   Link #36
NoSanninWa
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I have to agree eith you about the world having changed since the old "gentleman's agreement" between fansubbers and licensors. Fortunately the licensing companies still seem willing to play by those rules. Perhaps because they feel that they have little to gain by going against it and don't want to gain a lot of ill will.

Unfortunately I'm afraid that I couldn't figure out the point of your post. Are you saying that licensors should stop trying to block fansubs just because the fansubs are good for R3?
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Old 2004-06-30, 07:20   Link #37
chibikit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
Are you saying that licensors should stop trying to block fansubs just because the fansubs are good for R3?
Essentially, yes. We've been hearing a lot of from licensing company representatives that fansubbing is past its time and other similar sentiments. This, as I point out, is based on the fact that the anime market in R1 is no longer a niche market and thus fansubbing's purpose of bringing about awareness of anime is fulfilled.

Of course, I think that's poppycock, and I think I've explained why.

Maybe me saying all this in a thread about a site indexing R1 DVD rip torrents is making it a bit confusing. I'd just like to clarify that my sentiments regarding fansubs do not extend to R1 DVD rips; even I don't consider them fansubs by any stretch of the idea. But fansubs are still very much relevant, not only for those of us in R3 but for other non-R1 regions as well (hell, I'd say they're still relevant in R1 because they're bringing new anime to the attention of fans there). To say that fansubbing is irrelevant because its purpose is mainly filled in R1 is, as I said, Ameri-centric and very much in ignorance of the existence of fans in other DVD Regions.
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Old 2004-06-30, 08:43   Link #38
anime_layer
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@chibikit
I generally agree with you but there are a few things you missed that make me tend to the other side:
The argument with non-american regions where anime is still a niche market is ok but I suspect that many fansubbers just use this as an excuse to keep on fansubbing. This argument applies well to non-english fansubs but if you're using Azureus and having the Country Locator plugin installed you'll see that on licensed english fansubs there are usually 50%+ americans leeching.
If something is released to the internet, no one can control where it goes and thus the person who releases has to take responsiblity for it. You cannot say "I don't fansubs for those 50% american who still download it against fansubbing ethnics". To give a b/W example: You cannot detonate an nuke saying you only want to hit the bad guys. You'll have to take responsiblity for every good person killed since you took the risk by detonating the nuke in the first place.

If you substract from the english speaking licensed anime leechers all americans, everyone who could understand French, Spanish or any other language in which fansubs are available nowadays and all those who could get R1-DVDs to reasonable prices you'll end up with a few persons who actually need english fansubs. I don't think you can justify fansubbing for those few, taking into account the damage you cause.

Quote:
How does this tie in with boxtorrents et al. being hit allegedly by ADV? Simply this: I view these actions as disdain by the R1 companies for the fansubbers who not only form a major part of their potential customer base but can be instrumental in tapping other markets as well.
1. I don't really think yo can call yourself potential customer base if you never get to the trouble buying a DVD, what most licensed-anime-leechers never do.
2. See above concerning english fansubs for licensed anime.
3. ADV has very much the right to do this. Instead of the fansubbers that preferred to sit in their comfortable home and do some fansubbing, ADV actually took the risk to try and bring anime to the american market. And if they decide to pay up for a license they have the right to make sure they can pay it off.
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Old 2004-06-30, 09:27   Link #39
wao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anime_layer
If something is released to the internet, no one can control where it goes and thus the person who releases has to take responsiblity for it.
Well, like I said earlier maybe there could be mircx like sites that block ranges of IPs. Of course for stuff on mIRC it's going to be around as prevalent as ever, mircx or no. Whether you like it or not that's the way it is...

Even for anime releases that were released before R1 licensing of the anime, they will always be liable to be distributed around other ways even though original distribution has stopped....

Now I'm not even making a point @_@
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Old 2004-06-30, 10:27   Link #40
tanuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panianna
Calm down, people. This site is up and running. It was not ADV's fault. It was yje most banal thing nowadays DDoS attack. The sad news is that another site is down. You remember that site with a strict sharing policy we discussed few weeks ago? That archive is gone. Forever.
If that refers to Box, I'd noticed the site had become unreachable...but was unsure of the reason for this. Thought perhaps the admin had taken the site down for more upgrade work, or that the site might be down due to a denial of service attack.
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