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Old 2004-06-30, 18:42   Link #21
Roots
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I have been studying Japanese in college courses and by myself for 3 years now. I don't think it is a difficult language to learn at all. The hardest part is definitely the writing system and the number of Kanji (ph34r), but that's the only part of the language that I really takes me a long time to comprehend. I took Spanish for 4 years in school from 8th grade to 11th grade and I can speak and understand Japanese now about 100x better than I ever could with Spanish.

If you want my opinion, I think that the hardest language to learn is English (my native language). Seriously, what's with all the silent letters? Why doesn't ANYTHING sound like it should? And all those weird conjugations: was/is/were/are...man I'm glad its my native language. English sucks in my opinion! :fingers:
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Old 2004-06-30, 18:50   Link #22
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That guy's quite a troll.

Anyway, in my opinion Japanese isn't difficult to grasp if you don't compare it to English. It's very contextual and very flexible, and it's a lot easier to make a point or put a feeling across in Japanese than it is in English. I would say the same about Korean and Chinese as well, which is why there's a growing minority of Western people who take such a profound interest in East Asian culture and media (including the dreaded 'otaku.')
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Old 2004-06-30, 20:29   Link #23
S7EV3n
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Cool

Japan is a country

okay! by the way..Japanese language is hard!
all languages are hard, when you get to the advanced levels
For only baby chatting with your friends .... yes! Japanese is easy!
only need to live there for like 1 or 2 years to master~!! (not for 30years or older )
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Old 2004-06-30, 20:59   Link #24
AOforever1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
Forgive me for having my own opinion. I'm sure you hate freedom and free speech as well as others having an opinion.
I was reading and enjoying the discussion on this thread, but really now please don't pull the tread discussion down to that level.

Anyways, yes the Japanese language can be difficult, but it depends on the person learning the language as well.
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Old 2004-06-30, 21:40   Link #25
NinjaServ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterx
many people will say it is easy, but they can't speak it. Imho english is easier to learn than japanese
English is the 2nd hardest language to learn in the world (2nd to Russian). Believe it or not english speakers (including myself) ppl that dont' speak english have a HELL of a hard time learning it cuz it IS a EXTREMELY difficult language to learn (being there are words that are pronounced the same way and are spelled so different, etc.). BTW, this isn't my opinion, it was a random statistic I found out about sometime in my life O.o....

and OBVIOUSLY if english is your first language, it doesn't seem hard to you, but it SERIOUSLY is hard to learn (ask someone who IS learning it :P)
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Old 2004-06-30, 21:49   Link #26
mantidor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaServ
English is the 2nd hardest language to learn in the world (2nd to Russian). Believe it or not english speakers (including myself) ppl that dont' speak english have a HELL of a hard time learning it cuz it IS a EXTREMELY difficult language to learn (being there are words that are pronounced the same way and are spelled so different, etc.). BTW, this isn't my opinion, it was a random statistic I found out about sometime in my life O.o....

and OBVIOUSLY if english is your first language, it doesn't seem hard to you, but it SERIOUSLY is hard to learn (ask someone who IS learning it :P)
eeerr. I dont think thats true, Ive heard that the most difficult language is chinese, and that spanish comes close, At least for me learning english wasnt terrible at all, I found japanese harder than english and japanese is kind of easy.
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Old 2004-06-30, 21:53   Link #27
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantidor
eeerr. I dont think thats true, Ive heard that the most difficult language is chinese, and that spanish comes close, At least for me learning english wasnt terrible at all, I found japanese harder than english and japanese is kind of easy.
English is hard. Especially if you want to be perfectly grammatically correct. With that stupid MLA format and rules, it does get tedious sometimes.

Should of - Cannot be used. Also (broke a rule already...) ain't isn't a real word, you cannot use apostrophes in formal writing. A bunch of picky rules.

Heck just take a look at the thread's creator. He can't spell "Japanese" nor "your" correctly.

I hear if you can learn Latin however, you can learn easily learn many languages.

I find Chinese easy to speak, hard to read and write.

Last edited by aahhsin; 2004-06-30 at 22:05.
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Old 2004-06-30, 22:03   Link #28
S7EV3n
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Chinese is the hardest
Because..No one knows every Chinese words..and even the dictionaries are not sure how many words are there in Chinese language system
for speaking..it is even harder..it has 4 different accents..and every word has its own accent!! it is definally the hardest language ever~!
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Old 2004-06-30, 22:21   Link #29
MwyC
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well, not really each word
its each sound
and if you have a different accent its a different word

like...xia and...xia
=p
one is down and one means prawn
but they are written differently

this is mandarin btw...i think cantonese has 6? different tones

japanese has its little idiosyncracies
just like any language
which is why im finding it hard
><
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Old 2004-06-30, 22:33   Link #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Heck just take a look at the thread's creator. He can't spell "Japanese" nor "your" correctly.
lol
if you want to rip on his english...there are a LOT more things you can go on
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Old 2004-07-01, 02:01   Link #31
Blue*Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Heck just take a look at the thread's creator. He can't spell "Japanese" nor "your" correctly.
Lol, . Are we only going to talk about the spellings right now? shis

and btw there was a reply here ;japanese kids are learning english on school. And the japanese language will be removed;.

For that reply (sorry don't wanna to check who it was again)
That will never happpend japan language will always be remaind.
But language can't be changed. Like you got Old Hollands and New Hollands.Let that please not be in japan language changing . But we hollanders and other country are also learning english on school, so why would the japanese culture ben removed?

Japan is a heck of a challenge to learn the language
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Old 2004-07-01, 07:12   Link #32
SajberToent
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The fact is that how hard it is to learn a language depends on a few factors such as how much it differs from your native language, how old you are, how bright you are and how much you want to learn the language.

For most people japaneese is considered to be a difficult language to learn. But certainly not impossible....

And I might add that as already stated in this thread - that's one nasty troll! =P
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Old 2004-07-01, 07:32   Link #33
Ending
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English... hard? Funny, seeing how many people there are on boards like this, all speaking more or less good english. Also, english has been accepted to the same position latin had in the Middle Ages, thus it cannot be too hard for everyone to learn.
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Old 2004-07-01, 07:56   Link #34
Mcdonalds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
English is old, but not as old as Japanese. It was also undergone vast changes.
So how does old make it inferior? Reading your other thread, you believe in the bible over science and that is WAY older than science, so Japanese is inferior because it is older but the bible is less inferior to science because it is older?!?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
They teach english in schools, I'm just suggesting they switch over to english. ^_^
They teach French and all other languages in the U.S.. Maybe the U.S. should switch to them languages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
I'm saying that this is the only reason many of the people here are intrested in learning it, and I do not feel it is a valid reason. (This is a part of my original point). They do not learn it because it is a good language, nor very useful. They learn it because they see it on TV (Or when they pirate anime)
Very fair point, i can see where you're coming from, yea it probably does cheese you off when people do that. I don't see really see whats wrong with it, if they think its worth it then they're putting their time and effort into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
I'd say the culture that kicked the ass of another culture is superior. They try to copy out culture (especially black culture), what does that tell you?
I see, so military strength = greater culture?!? + i think nowadays, if the U.S. ever finish the star wars project (is that what its called), then i don't think any country is safe with Nuclear weapons. Do you even understand what culture is? As for copying the culture, the whole american language originates from England, does that make England >>> U.S.A.

Anyway, back on topic, i often hear people say that English is harder than most other languages. I don't think so but probably because i know English. Maybe gramatically it is far harder, in terms of speaking it though, i would have to disagree. Chinese (and as far as i am aware) and japanese are far harder because of the different tones you have to emphasize on words to make it the word you want. My chinese is poor, people have a hard time understanding what i say sometimes (or maybe the people i speak to are retarded and are not logical). If you had poor pronounciation and bad grammer in English, you could still probably get by and people would understand you. Reading wise, omg with English there are rules to follow on how to read words, with chinese and japanese, they are all different symbols that means totally different things.
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Old 2004-07-01, 15:20   Link #35
_Sin_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdonalds
I see, so military strength = greater culture?!? + i think nowadays, if the U.S. ever finish the star wars project (is that what its called), then i don't think any country is safe with Nuclear weapons. Do you even understand what culture is? As for copying the culture, the whole american language originates from England, does that make England >>> U.S.A.
Actually, the U.S. took the best out of all European countries since the first settlers were Europeans who - logically - brought their culture with them and merged them with the other settlers. As for the language per se: Part of it comes from Latin (I'll count in languages which originated from Latin in here as well, like Italian, Spanish, French etc), another part from Germanic languages (I don't know from where the "rest" originated from but I assume that they have European origin as well like Gaelic and what not).
It's the fact that a lot of non-English languages assimilate English words into their own vocabulary that makes the English appear like the "Mother of all languages" but people tend to forget that English is a composition of other languages as well and also assimilates European words into it's own vocabulary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcdonalds
Anyway, back on topic, i often hear people say that English is harder than most other languages. I don't think so but probably because i know English.
I find reading and writing English alot easier than other languages - sometimes even my native language. The only parts that are hard to understand are sayings which only natives tend to understand (plus finding the right prepositions for each and every word is bothersome as well)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
I hear if you can learn Latin however, you can learn easily learn many languages.
Well, yes, knowing Latin helps alot with learning other Romanic languages like French, Spanish, Italian, English etc. - although you'll only need the vocabulary and not the grammar stuff. Funny tid-bit: My former Latin teacher can read an Italian newspaper like a paper written in his native language because ~70% of the Italian vocabulary originates from Latin. (Italian is the language with the most words originating from Latin)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Termina
I'd say the culture that kicked the ass of another culture is superior.
Maybe you wanted to say that the "superior" (in militaristic terms) nation can force the "inferior" (again in militaristic terms) nation to abandon their culture and assimilate the culture of the victors. Note that this fact does not say anything of the superiority and inferiority respectively of a given culture but of the military strength of a nation which may or may not be influenced by their culture. As aready said, cultures cannot be compared easily to each other: Whereas one culture exceeds in militaristic power, the other one may exceed the other in terms of scientific knowledge (I chose measurable examples deliberately because stuff like Religion and the like are hard to compare). Valuing the different facets of a culture is our job and that's why people disagree with you. You get my point?

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For me, French was the most difficult language to learn and pronounce (out of Turkish, German, English, Latin and French) because it's so illogical (or let's say: there are lots of exceptions to each and every rule ). I mean, why do the French put e's and s's on the end of words and dont pronounce them? (Kinda rhetorical question)
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Old 2004-07-03, 09:32   Link #36
RobertM
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As for English being hard, I have to agree with the earlier poster. If it's so difficult, how come so many people can communicate in it, as on this forum? English is a bit messed up with spelling since it is a unique bastard, born from a Germanic people living under the Francophone Normans. Like most languages, English is much easier to grasp than it is to master.

I don't think I'm really in a position to say whether Japanese is difficult or not. Some parts of it are astonishingly simple. Yet other parts make my head hurt. If I could list three things that are difficult in Japanese, they would be the following:

1:
The Japanese love to leave things out. Although one can theoretically have a subject in a Japanese sentence, that almost NEVER happens. The subject is almost always missing, and it's left to the reader or listener to figure it out through context. I know this happens in other languages to, but it is pretty extreme in Japanese.
2:
The different modes of speaking. German has du and sie. French has tu and vous. Japanese has several times as many ways of addressing the second person, the first person, and even the third person. A simple statement like "This flower is red," is never just a simple statement. The first part can be この花は赤い, but how do you end it? ~わ、~ぞ、~よ、~のだ、~です, etc. In English, you can just make a statement of fact. Japanese is always forcing you to decide the social/emotional/status-related manner in which you make that simple statement. Again, I know this happens in other languages like Korean, French, etc. But again, the Japanese take it to extreme lengths.
3:
Kanji. Yes, you need at least 50% more characters in order to be literate in Chinese. But the multiple readings in Kanji are just berserk. And when it comes to Japanese names, woah!

However, there is one part of Japanese that I think should be ridiculously easy. That is pronounciation. I think Koreans can pick up on it pretty fast. The Chinese as well. But why on earth do native English speakers have such a difficult time pronouncing such a simple sound system? I do not understand. The native English speaker seems to want to force every word into a syncopated rythm. The timing goes all off. Japanese timing is stupidly simple. Every syllable has the same length (with few, odd exceptions.) What I find extraordinary is when these same people sing Japanese in Karaoke, even if they can't speak the language at all, they end up sounding like a native Japanese speaker! Because when you're singing, the timing takes care of itself.
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Old 2004-07-03, 10:16   Link #37
Ending
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Quote:
That is pronounciation. I think Koreans can pick up on it pretty fast. The Chinese as well. But why on earth do native English speakers have such a difficult time pronouncing such a simple sound system? I do not understand. The native English speaker seems to want to force every word into a syncopated rythm.
That must be why they think finnish is a "difficult" language too. Things are pronounced the same way around here; "like they are."
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Old 2004-07-03, 14:08   Link #38
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I dont believe that the Japanese language is difficult at least the speaking part, the writing... is another story, believe me if ur native language is Albanian other languages come easy to u.
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Old 2004-07-03, 22:22   Link #39
srb
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English is difficult to learn for quite a lot of people when it comes to the grammar, but for some people this isn't an issue as they have the ability to detect when something looks wrong and doesn't have to learn tons of grammatical rules. It's the same with German and Swedish, although we have even more of them. Swedish is believed to be harder to learn than Chinese is for most people. Even I, a native Swede, believes English is much easier and accessible.

And regarding the sound pronounciation, I agree. Englishmen or Americans seem to have great difficulties with pronouncing names and sounds from other languages like Swedish, and as we are all aware of from dubs, Japanese. But here in Sweden we have this ingenious idea that I can't believe they haven't thought of, namely to pronounce it like a native speaker would.

Last edited by srb; 2004-07-03 at 23:04.
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Old 2004-07-04, 00:36   Link #40
Sugetsu
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Well, I have another good Colombian friend (Besides mantidor ) Who has been learning Japanese for two years there, and based on what he says, strangely or not Japanese is an easy language for Spanish speaking people, due to the fact that its accent and pronunciation are very close to ours. He is actually able to speak Japanese pretty good, and he can understand it perfectly, but it is hell for him trying to read it. During these two years he has been trying to learn the Kinjies, but he says there are more than 2000 and each of them has its own meaning. So based on what he says, Japanese is easy to understand and to speak (if you are a Spanish speaker) but hella difficult to read and write.

As for English being the most difficult language, well, I don't think so. I took me one year to learn it (I mean, to speak it, understand it, read it and write it pretty decently) But of course, I'm still learning it. I still have to reduce my accent, and I still need to get fancier with it . And off course, I have a lot of trouble pronouncing and learning new words, due to the fact that unless you investigate their pronunciation and their different meanings you’ll never be able to pronounce them or use them.

Chinese is indeed the most difficult language in the world. There are more than 5000 Kinjies (or something similar to it if I am not mistaken) You have to learn the tones, which are vital for speaking and understanding; Each word has many different tones and based on the tone of your voice the meaning of your word changes. So in order for you to communicate something you have to be careful with your tone of voice or you could be saying something different, or not being understandable at all! And as other people here have already pointed out, there are some different words in Chinese that not even your lifetime will be enough to learn them all.

As for Spanish, I think these is one the easiest languages in the world The tone of your voice doesn't matter that much, your message will be always the same. Even if you are a foreigner your accent wouldn't be an obstacle to make yourself understandable. You read it the same way you speak it. The only difficult part in Spanish is its writing because we use the stress marks a lot, so if you want to be grammatically correct you have to write Mamá and Papá Although it is not necessary for you to use the stress marks in order to be understandable. And also we have the silent H, and the S, C, Z and LL and Y, which can be quite troublesome at times when you are writing, because they all sound the same or almost the same. The grammar in written Spanish is hard that, even I, a native speaker, suck at it BIG time... in fact you'd be horrified

Is Spanish difficult for you guys?
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Last edited by Sugetsu; 2004-07-04 at 00:48.
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