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Old 2004-07-21, 12:41   Link #121
_Sin_
Member of the Year 2004!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: "And if thou doest not well, _Sin_ lieth at the door."- Genesis 4:7
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken102
I have to assume, _Sin_, that where you are from this is not so.
It's not really a matter of where I'm from but how you got educated*. I was lucky that I attended a humanistic school that taught the pupils to be critical and to not take things for granted. For me that was the most important thing school has given me, I guess ^_^


*admittedly, education is affected by the country you are living in but I don't see that much of a discrepancy between the US and the Western countries since you are taught to say what you think in both locations. That's why I'll neglect the location factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken102
(I like your name, by the way)
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by HL, formerly known as HopelessLover
Man, stop abbreviating my name to HL, people might get confused and think I belong to the Half-LIfe game
Err, no.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:08   Link #122
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sin_
Don't you think that it is a little bit too far fetched to assume that the world's media has united against Bush? It's a given that every news source is biased more or less, but couldn't it be that they tell the truth sometimes? Also, doesn't Bush own a (news) channel himself (I forgot the name but could it be Fox News or something like that?)? Isn't it also true that reporting about war casualties in Iraq was/is forbidden as well?

I wonder where you got that information from? From the media itself? But isn't the media biased? If I wanted I could say that I believe the entire media corp. has a very strong political bias to the right. Do you get where I'm going? A says media is biased to the left, B says media is biased to the right. But who is right? Honestly I don't know.


I hope I did not affend anyone by writing this (I normally stay away from political topics, especially the one involving the US). I even tried to leave out as many sarcastic remarks as I caught while writing, so, yeah ^_^

Sidenote: I'm glad for you that you found a politician with whom ideals and moral you can identify 100%. It's only understandable that you'll vote for him and I don't think anyone with an IQ above 5 will disagree here (I hope) ^_^
Sin, no offense taken- you didn't resort to name calling- you just argued your case. I love when people can have a civilized conversation about religion, politics, or philosophy and agree to disagree. My best friend and I don't agree on ANYTHING, and we're always debating each other on it.

Somebody else called me a prime example of a brain washed citizen. This would be true if I was not a thinker, if I was content to hope for the best both in myself and in others (politicians). This isn't so- I question nearly every piece of information I receive. I am very skeptical of the nature of knowledge and truth because I know how hard they are to capture. As a character says in the book I am reading (look at my sig)- "the truth always carries the ambiguity of the words that are used to express it."

Now on to a rebuttal of Sin's most important arguments:

As to my sources- well, how does the New York Times sound. Now, the stories are often buried on page 17, but they're there. The mainstream media chooses not to make them headlines. I've seen larger, more prominent versions of these stories in other more conservative sources. The thing is, each news outlet here has an agenda in leaning more to the left or to the right- and you can see that very clearly by how prominently they display these stories about WMD's resurfacing. Do you remember the stink made about the supposedly false claims that Saddam went to Africa for WMD's? Well, there is new evidence that this did indeed happen. Oddly enough, the evidence was covered up by the husband of the CIA agent whose name was slipped to the press. (a little suspect there) I'm telling you, there's a whole world of news that doesn't reach the mainstream press because it doesn't meet their agenda.

Also, I'm not arguing that there is a worldwide organized conspiracy in the press- I think it just comes together that way naturally. I think more people of the liberal persuasion are drawn towards journalism. It's certainly clear enough in my journalism department.
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Last edited by wsheit; 2004-07-21 at 13:25.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:21   Link #123
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
You know, that's what makes this country so fucken great. You can ignore all the crap, all the wrong doings, and all messed up things that this country does just by simply and quickly reminding every body, including your self, all about the goods things it offers just to forget about every thing else-----Omg! wE weNT to War wiTh peoPle wHo nOthIng tO do wIth 9/11, aNd oMg the preSident hAd relaTionshIps wIth teH peOplE whO attAckeD us! ---- wEll, it's oK Since wE rePreSenT freEdOm!! yaY, it WiLl Be juSt fInE!!
It sounds like you are talking about the claims Moore makes in Fahrenheit 9/11. If so, then you need to do some extra research. Even many liberals now have spoken out against that movie as misleading and untrue. There are articles now in usually liberal publications such as Newsweek talking about how Moore is lying to the American people to further his own agenda- this isn't even underground news anymore- it's mainstream. For instance, the "relationships" between Bush and Bin Laden are conjured out of thin air. Yes, some of the Bin Laden family were flown out of the country, but A) it happened when air travel HAD been reopened and B) those family membered had disavowed Bin Laden himself much earlier- they wanted nothing to do with him and feared for their lives. This is just one example of how misleading that movie is. I know this post belongs in the Fahrenheit thread, but I haven't been daring enough to venture in there just yet.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:28   Link #124
chuckert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
WTF is wrong with constructive critisim? So what if I made alittle crack about the govrnment and taxes. You don't have to have a pms about it, and imedietly think like:

omG!! hE made fun of teh u.S.!! omg!!! gET him!! he's EVIl!!! hE's onE Of thEm! OmG!!! dOesn't He knOw wE fiGhtinG a wAr wiTh EviL terRorisTS! omG!!! hOw caN he Say tHAt!! omG!!!

Or something along those lines that's makes you want to respond to the littlest of hicklings I made towards our country. So in short, it's not a big deal---if you say you have so much pride up your ass then you wouldn't of bothered to reply to some thing you KNOW isn't true.
Nothing wrong with it. I'm hardly worked up from your response so I don't know where you came off that I was PMS'ing. It's simple. You voiced your opinion which I didn't like, so I voiced mine and you didn't like it either. You just took it a little further than I thought you would with this response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
You know, that's what makes this country so fucken great. You can ignore all the crap, all the wrong doings, and all messed up things that this country does just by simply and quickly reminding every body, including your self, all about the goods things it offers just to forget about every thing else-----Omg! wE weNT to War wiTh peoPle wHo nOthIng tO do wIth 9/11, aNd oMg the preSident hAd relaTionshIps wIth teH peOplE whO attAckeD us! ---- wEll, it's oK Since wE rePreSenT freEdOm!! yaY, it WiLl Be juSt fInE!!
What makes this country not great is it's people who always think negatively about it. You think most Americans want to hear bad things about their country all day long and be reminded of all the evil and wrong things we've done? I sure as heck don't. It doesn't mean I'm ignoring it though. I know we're a super power that acts like a 'bully' sometimes, and I've clearly stated that I don't agree with alot of things our government has done with international disputes. I'd rather focus more on the positive things about our country instead of the negative, and I'm sure most folks from other countries would agree if in the same situation.
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Last edited by chuckert; 2004-07-21 at 13:47.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:30   Link #125
wsheit
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the news on WMDs continues to flow- this just out:

Nuclear arms reportedly found in Iraq

http://interestalert.com/brand/sitei...r=World%20News
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:39   Link #126
_Sin_
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: "And if thou doest not well, _Sin_ lieth at the door."- Genesis 4:7
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckert
What makes this country not great is it's people who always think negatively about it. You think most Americans want to hear bad things about their country all day long and be reminded of all the evil and wrong things we've done. I sure as heck don't. It doesn't mean I'm ignoring it though. I know we're super power that acts like a 'bully' sometimes, and I've clearly state that I don't agree with alot of things our government has done with international disputes. I'd rather focus more on the positive things about our country instead of the negative, and I'm sure most folks from other countries would agree if in the same situation.
It's fine as long as you really do not forget the negative things that exist because if you do, you wouldn't care to improve them, now would you? If you like your country - which I'm sure you do - you should try to improve it even more. All you need to do is vote the president that you think will be best suited, I guess.

BTW, wsheit, is there a hidden message within your user name? Because the first thing I thought when I read your user name was the German word Weisheit - pronounciation is similar. I won't tell you guys what it means, so look it up yourself.

Spoiler for For the lazy and curious:


EDIT: OMG, I just received negative reputation for the spoilers; geez people
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Last edited by _Sin_; 2004-07-21 at 14:13.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:47   Link #127
wsheit
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sin_
BTW, wsheit, is there a hidden message within your user name? Because the first thing I thought when I read your user name was the German word Weisheit - pronounciation is similar. I won't tell you guys what it means, so look it up yourself.
Wow- somebody had too much fun with spoiler tags. Anyway, I always get this question about my username, and I hate answering it because the answer is so much more boring than anything people come up with. My full name is William Scott Heitman- wsheit is an abbreviation of the whole thing. I use it on nearly every forum I'm a member of. Kind of cool, though, that it is close to a word for wisdom.
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:48   Link #128
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sin_
...BTW, wsheit, is there a hidden message within your user name? Because the first thing I thought when I read your user name was the German word Weisheit - pronounciation is similar. I won't tell you guys what it means, so look it up yourself. ...
You need to speak a weird german accent ^^' Wesheit => Weesheid => Weisheit... sounds like a dialect spoken in regions near Chemnitz or Leipzig *g*
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:50   Link #129
_Sin_
Member of the Year 2004!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: "And if thou doest not well, _Sin_ lieth at the door."- Genesis 4:7
Age: 29
If I were you I'd just pretend that it was intended to be so similar to wisdom and had refered them to my previous post. Noone would have noticed ^_^

Quick, edit your post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto Lin
You need to speak a weird german accent ^^' Wesheit => Weesheid => Weisheit... sounds like a dialect spoken in regions near Chemnitz or Leipzig *g*
Nah, for me it was
W != We , but W=W
S=es
Ergo:
Wesheit, only one 'i' missing

Talk about creative, ne?
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There is a little known provision in the Forum Rules that explicitly allows a moderator to remove any signature image that they believe to be inappropriate for any reason. That did not happen in this case because _Sin_ is so boring that he never even had a signature to remove anyway. So why is this text here? To attract attention of course - isn't that what a signature is for?
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Old 2004-07-21, 13:55   Link #130
Forsaken102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
the news on WMDs continues to flow- this just out:

Nuclear arms reportedly found in Iraq

http://interestalert.com/brand/sitei...r=World%20News
Ehh... I really hate to point this out...

but the article is based on a rumor. It could not be confirmed, and the fact that weapons inspections were asked to be resumed would be just as easily interpereted to disprove the rumor, as prove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by United Press International
The report could not be authenticated by the interior ministry or the national security department, but the paper noted Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiar Zibari made a surprise request recently to Mohammed el-Baradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, to resume inspections for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
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MR. BROOKS: Objection. That question should be taken out and shot.
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Old 2004-07-21, 14:04   Link #131
wsheit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken102
Ehh... I really hate to point this out...

but the article is based on a rumor. It could not be confirmed, and the fact that weapons inspections were asked to be resumed would be just as easily interpereted to disprove the rumor, as prove it.

Fair enough- there isn't enough information yet to know the story for sure. It should be interesting to see how this develops. However, this article is simply an example of the many articles I've seen the haven't been picked up by the mainstream- most all of them confirmed and just as damning as this story
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Old 2004-07-21, 15:48   Link #132
HopelessLover
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsheit
Fair enough- there isn't enough information yet to know the story for sure. It should be interesting to see how this develops. However, this article is simply an example of the many articles I've seen the haven't been picked up by the mainstream- most all of them confirmed and just as damning as this story

I wouldn't put it past america to plant nuclear bombs in iraq and claim sadam actually DID have WMD.
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Old 2004-07-21, 15:56   Link #133
Kyolux
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Lol, _Sin_ funny website :P.. I'm not gonna take it the wrong way :P

Yeah I didn't meant one reporter. I meant it happened on multiple occasions. They simply get fired because they go against the ideas that the channel or newspaper are for. Since most of these are implicated in a way or another in political financing. Ok I can't prove that last fact for sure, unless I would go and look for it. But I know it's that way in Canada. Just 2 words. Power Corp. They own almost all medias. I know we only hear the informations the medias want us to hear, unless you go digging into infos by yourself with reliable unbisased sources. hmm I'd continue this.. but gotta go dinner. -_-

Edit: Back! ^_^ Yeah I was thinking, really USA isn't that bad to live in I think, ok I went there many time as a tourist and it's a really comfy place to be in I'd say :P I think we all got carried away because of stuff we don't agree with. I believe most american people are great peeps. It's just that because we don't agree with how the USA is lead.. That's our opinion and as much as we have to speak it, sometimes it can hurts others or go against there value. And I also think that it wasn't the point of the thread in the first place to bash against USA. And I don't think anyone ever meant that the united states was the worst place to live in. With all that said, have a good evening. It's up to everyone to choose the country they think is better. If there would be one, wich I doubt, since every good points has flaws. PERIOD!

Last edited by Kyolux; 2004-07-21 at 17:08.
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