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Old 2004-10-21, 15:59   Link #801
Srin Tuar
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
hmm... I don't remember hearing anything like "tsurai" in that line... I think it's something "-rashii omoi" at that part... but then maybe I remembered it wrong, I guess I need to get it again and rewatch that part.

well, I still think that's quite a cheesy scene anyway... and seems some non-manga-readers agree on that too...
Well, I think a bad translation can totally ruin the mood.
I was sitting on the edge of my seat watching that scene, wondering what the hell
kouta would say to her.. I thought it was well done.
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Old 2004-10-21, 19:19   Link #802
bohemian
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: オースチン, テキサス州, 米国
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin
She tried to infect the girl, she was already infected, so that killed her instead.
Lucy was like why doesn't it work.
Yes, I remembered that girl in an early episode, so Lucy indeed killed her? I always thought that Lucy just infected the girl and then the girl fainted after being infected. So, if what you are saying is true, who infected that girl in the first place? I never got that when I watched that episode.
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Old 2004-10-21, 21:15   Link #803
Guido
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I have read all of your posts regarding the last episode, and from my viewpoint I stand out that both of you have valid criteria with how things turned out in the end.

What fascinated me about Elfen Lied were the subtle and/or abrupt changes from mood and scenario. When Lucy emerges, the atmosphere becomes dark and creepy. It is imminent that someone or lots of people are going to get murdered in such hideous way; inevitable.

When Nyuu appears, on the other hand, the anguish and tension vanishes. The scenery becomes calm and peaceful again. We were displayed how she interacts within the Kouta household as another member of the family; lovely without being sugary.

We were shown to factions (groups) with utterly opposite attitudes and interests that helped to shape and compel the scenario's mood and emotional stability.
In one hand, we have the Kakuzawa team that tries its best efforts to hunt down the threat that Lucy (as also the Diclonius) poses to the world and clear the danger before it's too late, unawared that their main Boss (Kakuzawa) is a bastard, puppet master that's just using them all to feed his purpose plus sacrificing them according to the need of the situation.
Kurama and the team try their best efforts to destroy Lucy, but they fall flat, short on them as they are helplessly overpowered.
On the other hand, we have the Kouta household. As Yuka explained in the last episode, Kouta affected by the brutal trauma of his childhood in some way developed the affectionate desire to help people who had been through terrible experiences in their life so that they won't suffer any loss from what he had already suffered in the past.
We were displayed a non-traditional family group formed by quite few family relatives (Kouta and Yuka) plus sheltered strangers that came in contact with Kouta (Nyuu, Mayu, and Nana). How they relate and work as a real family, and how we felt fraternity and care in the atmosphere.

Two opposite environments that took their turns to shine depending upon the appearance of Nyuu to Lucy to Nyuu to Lucy on stage.
Lucy-Nyuu was the key person who drove those changes not only in the atmosphere but also in the environment.

As for the ending.
Spoiler:


After reading MakubeX2, Mentar, and dreamless comments regarding the end of the episode plus the stuff dealt whether unfinished or not, I believe that all of you are right.

For Mentar and MakubeX2 comments:
Yes, I did perceived Elfen Lied dealt about the issues of Lucy's and Kouta's past and their relation. I did perceived how Nyuu fitted into Kouta's new family, and compassionated for Lucy's suffering through life.

I think the main issue discussed in Elfen Lied is hope.
Lucy never did she gained and received anything from anybody from the day she was born, until she met with Kouta. Unfortunately, Lucy at that time was unable to believe in herself strongly enough so that she could be able to trust another person that wasn't Kouta. Lucy never had hope from the beginning until Kouta came to her. She tried to grasp hold of that hope, but she give in after realizing that Kouta lied to her and watching him with Yuka.
Therefore, the Vector Lucy personality took advantage of her despair and drove her to believe that she was the only who suffered and not needed in the world. Hearing the voice and losing the grasp of a fainted hope, Lucy to avoid getting hurt took the easy way out: hate the world to the boiling point in wiping out all the people whether they harmed her or not.
And that's how she became totally psycho and deranged, taking for granted that all people are just the same miserable and pathetic fellas who are going to hate and kill her at the first chance, unless she kills the people first without giving a damn about them.

Episode 13 displayed an attempt for Lucy to try again for grasping hope. She couldn't stay in the household because she knew that even if she get a happy memory staying there forever, she will just lie to herself and putting Kouta in danger.
Spoiler:


I would not mind to watch an anime or read a manga that's even doomsday, catastrophic, or apocalyptic as long as the plot hints or do I feel that somehow 'hope' manages to prevail at the end.
That's why I decided not to look after the manga because it seems that Okamoto-san has neither given nor hinted any possibility or room for hope for the time being, and definitely I do not like it.

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-10-21, 21:29   Link #804
Entropy
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Quote:
Kurama and the team try their best efforts to destroy Lucy, but they fall flat, short on them as they are helplessly overpowered.
Funny thing about that...notice how almost every single one of the "Special Forces" team members were using MP5.Now the MP5 at best uses .40 cal/10mm pistol ammo and that chambering for MP5s are already out of production,so we assume that the things are chambered for the Wimpy 9x19mm pistol caliber round which has trouble dropping people in one hit or even a few hits and can't penetrate a window on occasions.

And yet we see scientists carrying FAMAs with AP ammunition(well ok once),we see Bantou carrying a .50 cal handgun(boo!!!hiss!!!) using special tungsten rounds(common material used in AT ammo on modern non-US tanks)doing a fair bit on Nana.

They probably didn't try hard enough .

What kind of difference would there have been in the series if they grew brains and armed guards with things like G3s and FNFALS firing .308 AP rounds or later on like in that bridge scene used heavy weapons,perhaps even Bushmaster 25mm cannons or better yet Oerlikon KDE 35mms mounted on Japan's own Type 89 IFVs?

If Vectors have a hard time deflecting .50 cal pistols using Tungsten rounds imagine the carnage from a Bushmaster firing DU

Basically,for all the extra cost that came from hiring 4958035 useless security guards with pea shooters they could probably have had more success with a few guys armed with heavy weapons plus a knowledge of how to use them well.Bureaucracy at it's best

But than again,this is anime we're talking about

Last edited by Entropy; 2004-10-21 at 21:52.
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Old 2004-10-21, 22:15   Link #805
dreamless
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well, none of them uses flash grenade, tear gas, things the vectors can't stop, and they only used sniper once, and no more sniper later on. I guess the Chief just want to send in more people to die
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Old 2004-10-21, 22:29   Link #806
Proto
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Moreover... why dont they arm every soldier with the armored weapons that they perfectly know the vectors can't stop... but no... they give the soldiers 15 mm guns that even i can stop with my teeth

And seeing this type of monsters I'm surprised they didn't think of tanks
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Old 2004-10-21, 22:55   Link #807
Srin Tuar
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Entropy
Funny thing about that...notice how almost every single one of the "Special Forces" team members were using MP5.Now the MP5 at best uses .40 cal/10mm pistol ammo and that chambering for MP5s are already out of production,so we assume that the things are chambered for the Wimpy 9x19mm pistol caliber round which has trouble dropping people in one hit or even a few hits and can't penetrate a window on occasions.

And yet we see scientists carrying FAMAs with AP ammunition(well ok once),we see Bantou carrying a .50 cal handgun(boo!!!hiss!!!) using special tungsten rounds(common material used in AT ammo on modern non-US tanks)doing a fair bit on Nana.

They probably didn't try hard enough .

What kind of difference would there have been in the series if they grew brains and armed guards with things like G3s and FNFALS firing .308 AP rounds or later on like in that bridge scene used heavy weapons,perhaps even Bushmaster 25mm cannons or better yet Oerlikon KDE 35mms mounted on Japan's own Type 89 IFVs?

If Vectors have a hard time deflecting .50 cal pistols using Tungsten rounds imagine the carnage from a Bushmaster firing DU

Basically,for all the extra cost that came from hiring 4958035 useless security guards with pea shooters they could probably have had more success with a few guys armed with heavy weapons plus a knowledge of how to use them well.Bureaucracy at it's best

But than again,this is anime we're talking about
DU is not as dense as tungsten, so it wouldnt be any better. But density is probably not relevant, neither is round mass. What really matters in total energy, since the target is a "vector" force field, velocity will penetrate better than bullet mass. For that reason, a .357 magnum would probably be a significant enough threat to them, perhaps more than a .50 cal with AP rounds (which do absolutely nothing to increase total energy)

That aside, I totally agree with you: these vector girls dont really seem all that dangerous.
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Old 2004-10-21, 23:25   Link #808
Grona
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Srin Tuar
That aside, I totally agree with you: these vector girls dont really seem all that dangerous.
ummm, really now
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Old 2004-10-22, 00:39   Link #809
NoSanninWa
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, none of them uses flash grenade, tear gas, things the vectors can't stop, and they only used sniper once, and no more sniper later on. I guess the Chief just want to send in more people to die
Grenades would be caught and thrown back at the attackers. Bad idea.
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Old 2004-10-22, 01:24   Link #810
sarcasteak
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Spoiler for OVA SPOILERS:
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Old 2004-10-22, 02:46   Link #811
Yebyosh
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: South East Asia
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Spoiler for OVA SPOILERS:
Elfen Lied 14 : Vectorutions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
hmm... I don't remember hearing anything like "tsurai" in that line... I think it's something "-rashii omoi" at that part... but then maybe I remembered it wrong, I guess I need to get it again and rewatch that part.

well, I still think that's quite a cheesy scene anyway... and seems some non-manga-readers agree on that too...
コウータ:君だって・・・君だってさ、沢山悲しい思いしてじゃないのか。

It is cheesy, someone whom you barely know murdered your family in front of you, shocking you into traumatic amnesia. You spend a few years in ignorance of whatever things had happened or had gone on. Now you suddenly remember and you immediatedly forgive in a flash. What impactful long terms of decisions and pondering had been done to achieve a grevious decision to overcome something cutting your heart badly? Nope, just a brief, "Oh you poor thing. I think I loved you when we were young so I love you still and let's forget that you slice my sister and father into pieces, ok?"
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Old 2004-10-22, 03:11   Link #812
NoSanninWa
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He may have barely known her then, but now he cares a great deal for Nyu.
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Old 2004-10-22, 04:15   Link #813
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh
コウータ:君だって・・・君だってさ、沢山悲しい思いしてじゃないのか。
hmm... so that's it... I just got it again and listened to it again... yup, I guess he said takusankanashiiomoi... however it sounds like takusangarashiiomoi... I guess some translation got it to something like takusanairashiiomoi because of that...

for that part, I think it's quite cheesy because
Spoiler:

Another thought after watching the ending again
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-10-22, 04:46   Link #814
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yebyosh
Elfen Lied 14 : Vectorutions?
Tentacalinus?

Anyways, I thought the ending was beautiful...I enjoyed this series a lot and loved the characters; gotta believe in love...love can overcome anything! I would forgive my Midori even if she killed someone I know...so long as I know she did it out of love for me...
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Old 2004-10-22, 05:05   Link #815
MakubeX2
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 34
SAT do exist in real life though.

http://hanran.tripod.com/terro/c-sat.html

They are the counter-terrorist of the police force of Japan.

And their mainstray of weapon according to that page :-

拳銃……ニューナンブM60短銃、P226、P228、G19(各10丁前後)
SMG……MP5A4、A5、SD4、SD6(各10丁前後)

Handgin :- M60, P226, P228, G19
SMG :- MP5A4, A5, SD4, SD6

So your comments about SAT having more then those seem abit.....off.
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Old 2004-10-22, 06:15   Link #816
evil|plushie
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Hmm, all I can is...

This is Kouta -_- Mr. I can blank everything out-guy. He probably BLANKED out the emotional trauma and such that he felt from seeing his sister and father killed. Therefore, I nominate Kouta for the person who's actually the MOST psychologically screwed up in the head in the entire series.

Who's with me?
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Old 2004-10-22, 06:45   Link #817
MakubeX2
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
Hmm, all I can is...

This is Kouta -_- Mr. I can blank everything out-guy. He probably BLANKED out the emotional trauma and such that he felt from seeing his sister and father killed. Therefore, I nominate Kouta for the person who's actually the MOST psychologically screwed up in the head in the entire series.

Who's with me?
Only the animated version. Only the animated version.

But you have to wonder what is the atcual message behind this series. This series has everything. Gore, cute girls, drama, action and sci-fi. But how is it connected to the old german song "Elfenlied" ?

Granted that the anime has a music box that connect Lucy and Kouta, so that explains the "song" part, but the "Elf" part remains a mystery.

The title in regards to the manga is even harder to explain.The only thing that had some context to the title is Nozomi teaching Nyuu to sing Elfenlied.
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Old 2004-10-22, 06:50   Link #818
dreamless
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2
Only the animated version. Only the animated version.

But you have to wonder what is the atcual message behind this series. This series has everything. Gore, cute girls, drama, action and sci-fi. But how is it connected to the old german song "Elfenlied" ?

Granted that the anime has a music box that connect Lucy and Kouta, so that explains the "song" part, but the "Elf" part remains a mystery.

The title in regards to the manga is even harder to explain.The only thing that had some context to the title is Nozomi teaching Nyuu to sing Elfenlied.
well, maybe they thought elves grow cat-ears, so Diclonus are elves... or something, so Elves Song
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Old 2004-10-22, 07:40   Link #819
MakubeX2
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, maybe they thought elves grow cat-ears, so Diclonus are elves... or something, so Elves Song
Yah....granted that Lucy/Nyuu used to remotely resemble an Elf in Vol.1 with the horns protruding out of the side of her head before Okamoto redesign her to have Nekomimis to canter the taste of Otakus....

Seriously though....

The only thing I've noticed in the series is that every characters lose something in their life.

Kouta-His family.
Lucy-Her innocence.
Yuka-Kouta's fondness of her.
Mayu-Her trust in her family and men....possibly her virginity.
Nana-Her natural born family.....and limbs.
Kurama-His wife and along with that, his love for his daughter.
Mariko-Her father's love.

Somehow everyone got banded together and almost everyone got back what they lost.
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Old 2004-10-22, 11:13   Link #820
Elbowlick
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Well, the song Elfen Lied is about an elf that goes to see a wedding in a human village, and then is struck on the head. Really, it's about a creature that's not human, and can never fit into a human world because humans will always reject it (and use violence against it).

So it's a nice title for the anime. It fits rather well.
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