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Old 2004-11-07, 13:44   Link #921
AnimeFangirl
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Ummm... the thought is appreciated, but it's already being scanslated by two different groups. Maybe you could do something else by the same author? I tried to get into the manga right after finishing the anime, but the spark just wasn't there. I'll just let a little time pass, let a few more volumes come out and then maybe it will be fresh again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philupthetank86
ok,

after reading in this topic for a while. i've found out that the hard core fans of this series state that they enjoyed the manga better.

so im downloading the manga right now, the japanese version.

and i shall translate it as my little project.

if i ever see it at a convention i shall buy it.
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Old 2004-11-07, 14:57   Link #922
MiT
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Can anyone tell me where to get the translated manga scans? I managed to get Vol 1 to 7 off Anime.fin, but was wondering if anyone got further.
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Old 2004-11-07, 16:22   Link #923
Guido
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In response to MiT, just click on the following link below:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...6&postcount=24
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Old 2004-11-07, 23:43   Link #924
IntrepidAKP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
nah, I'm not John. I'm the who one has read the manga and is hugely disappointed that the Anime didn't follow it exactly I'd say this John person doesn't sound like he has read the manga, else he should be disappointed with the plot development instead of just the character development. This John sounds too positive in his thoughts about the anime, even in the character development part, to have read the manga
Didn't you read the manga after you watched the anime?

Anyways, I didn't find the ending all that unusual. I mean, I'd like to think I could forgive someone I loved of anything. It was touching. Don't think about it too much.
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Old 2004-11-08, 00:07   Link #925
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntrepidAKP
Didn't you read the manga after you watched the anime?

Anyways, I didn't find the ending all that unusual. I mean, I'd like to think I could forgive someone I loved of anything. It was touching. Don't think about it too much.
I started to read the manga after watching the first couple episodes of the anime.

I actually kinda agree with that John guy, but the problem here is that it seems I actually think of the manga the same way as he think of the anime I think the manga is quite great, however I find it's still a bit lacking in that it's hard to really relate or feel for any of the characters, just as what that John guy thinks about the anime.

For the anime, well, IMO it doesn't fix anything in the manga, but breaks some more. Still not a bad anime I'd say, but I'd just love it a lot more if it can follow the manga plot development
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Old 2004-11-08, 22:32   Link #926
MiT
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A rather late reply to 'TheLastGuardian''s post regarding reactions and comparing them to our own.

I found a number of scenes very touching in Elfen Lied, eg, when those guys decided to kill the dog in front of the younger Lucy's eyes...I'm quite sure that most people, especially after so much abuse from people like that, would do something similar to what Lucy did, if they had the power to.

We can understand Nana's pain at seeing her father die before her eyes, carrying a girl who was his real daughter. Imagine the feelings of betrayal she must be experiencing.

Those were a few that stuck out in my mind and still do...our reactions and those in Elfen Lied may be different, when it comes to the small things, but I think that they've got most of them dead center when it comes to an overall view of the anime. That was why I didn't find what John said, about 'arm's length' to be too plausible...I certainly could emphatize with what was going on when I watched the show.

Still, maybe it's just me
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Old 2004-11-08, 23:13   Link #927
Edgewalker
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Sorry if this is redundant as I cant shift through all 47 pages , but does anyone know how I can buy this anime ? It looks awesome , and has great reviews .
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Old 2004-11-08, 23:59   Link #928
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgewalker
Sorry if this is redundant as I cant shift through all 47 pages , but does anyone know how I can buy this anime ? It looks awesome , and has great reviews .
You have to wait for ADV to release it on DVD. As far as I know they haven't yet announced the release date.
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Old 2004-11-09, 05:17   Link #929
GarBhaD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiT
A rather late reply to 'TheLastGuardian''s post regarding reactions and comparing them to our own.

I found a number of scenes very touching in Elfen Lied, eg, when those guys decided to kill the dog in front of the younger Lucy's eyes...I'm quite sure that most people, especially after so much abuse from people like that, would do something similar to what Lucy did, if they had the power to.

We can understand Nana's pain at seeing her father die before her eyes, carrying a girl who was his real daughter. Imagine the feelings of betrayal she must be experiencing.

Those were a few that stuck out in my mind and still do...our reactions and those in Elfen Lied may be different, when it comes to the small things, but I think that they've got most of them dead center when it comes to an overall view of the anime. That was why I didn't find what John said, about 'arm's length' to be too plausible...I certainly could emphatize with what was going on when I watched the show.

Still, maybe it's just me
Not just you I don't agree with John either.
I never felt through the series that characters were far away from me or anything. The fact that you don't know their pasts doesn't matter at all. This happens all the time in anime, movies, novels, etc. it's a common narrative trick. That just tells you about the characters motives/objectives. I don't see what this have to do with being close to the characters. If that were true, then you don't get close to them in 90% of anime series :P
To understand their personality, you just need to watch how they react to the different situations/problems they face with. And there's a bunch of that in Elfen Lied! More than enough to know how they are (on a general outline). Again, that's more than enough to understand'em and with that you can be as close to them as you want. The rest depends on you tastes and if you "like" them or don't. Maybe I'm okay with it because I liked the chatacters...
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Old 2004-11-09, 06:48   Link #930
dreamless
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Hmm... I don't think it has anything to do with taste or liking the characters or not. I think Elfen Lied just doesn't portray the character very intimately, not in the manga, nor the anime. So it's just harder to feel for the characters closely, whether loving or hating them. For example, I can feel for the characters in Narutaru, Saikano, NTHT and Berserk very closely, I can really hate characters like Hamdo in NTHT, really feel sad for characters like Sara in NTHT, Akemi in Saikano, really feel pity for characters like Akira in Narutaru, etc. I can love or hate them, like or dislike them, really personally. However for Elfen Lied, although I love characters like Nana and Kurama, hate characters like Kakuzawa, and worship the evil Lucy, they feel indeed more like at an arm's length rather than an intimate feeling.

For example, Nana is super cute and I feel sorry for her when I see the tragic events she goes through, but that's mostly just during those scenes, and they don't leave as close or deep an impression as, say, Sara in NTHT, where I really feel like experiencing all the pain and struggle with her, and can feel it even after finish watching the anime. In Elfen Lied it's mostly something just during the scenes, when those things happen on screen or on page, I can see the shock, the tragedy, the emotion, but that never truly strike into the hearts of the viewer and leave as much feeling as the other animes. I'd say Elfen Lied is highly captivating and emotional with its explicit and impactful scenes, but I think it lacks a certain immersion factor to make people feel like experiencing the events right beside the characters, to make people really relate into the fictional world.
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Old 2004-11-09, 08:50   Link #931
MiT
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Well, I haven't watched those anime yet, so I guess it isn't too fair for me to make a judgement, ne?

Still, I thought the char development for Kuruma wasn't too bad...I was thinking that he was this evil heartless Supervisor at the beginning of the show, which changed dramatically as the episodes progressed.


And yes, I worship Lucy as well
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Old 2004-11-10, 01:35   Link #932
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
In Elfen Lied it's mostly something just during the scenes, when those things happen on screen or on page, I can see the shock, the tragedy, the emotion, but that never truly strike into the hearts of the viewer and leave as much feeling as the other animes. I'd say Elfen Lied is highly captivating and emotional with its explicit and impactful scenes, but I think it lacks a certain immersion factor to make people feel like experiencing the events right beside the characters, to make people really relate into the fictional world.
I didn't watch the whole series so perhaps I shouldn't talk, but from what I've seen (5 eps) I agree.

Elfen Lied seems to go in the direction of "Love Hina with Psychos." It's not about the level of violence, but the "problems" that each character has to resolve are so in-your-face they end up kind of trite. Sure, the violence can make your stomach churn, but beyond the immediate physical reaction to the brutality displayed there doesn't seem to be much else to cling on to. The opening is absolutely stunning, but the rest of the anime is actually kind of dry.
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Old 2004-11-10, 05:04   Link #933
GarBhaD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Hmm... I don't think it has anything to do with taste or liking the characters or not. I think Elfen Lied just doesn't portray the character very intimately, not in the manga, nor the anime. So it's just harder to feel for the characters closely, whether loving or hating them. For example, I can feel for the characters in Narutaru, Saikano, NTHT and Berserk very closely, I can really hate characters like Hamdo in NTHT, really feel sad for characters like Sara in NTHT, Akemi in Saikano, really feel pity for characters like Akira in Narutaru, etc. I can love or hate them, like or dislike them, really personally. However for Elfen Lied, although I love characters like Nana and Kurama, hate characters like Kakuzawa, and worship the evil Lucy, they feel indeed more like at an arm's length rather than an intimate feeling.

For example, Nana is super cute and I feel sorry for her when I see the tragic events she goes through, but that's mostly just during those scenes, and they don't leave as close or deep an impression as, say, Sara in NTHT, where I really feel like experiencing all the pain and struggle with her, and can feel it even after finish watching the anime. In Elfen Lied it's mostly something just during the scenes, when those things happen on screen or on page, I can see the shock, the tragedy, the emotion, but that never truly strike into the hearts of the viewer and leave as much feeling as the other animes. I'd say Elfen Lied is highly captivating and emotional with its explicit and impactful scenes, but I think it lacks a certain immersion factor to make people feel like experiencing the events right beside the characters, to make people really relate into the fictional world.
Really, I still don't get what do you expect from a TV series and character development I watched NTHT and I don't see much of a difference in relation to characters from EL (in terms of being closer to the viewer).
You just speak about suffering and I don't think that's a good way to "feel" characters closer. You can't "feel" closer to characters from comedies then?

As you said, EL goess for physical carnage instead of psychological pain, while HTNT gives a general feeling of pessimism through all the series. Yes, in EL all the violence is piled up on certain scenes, while there are some moments of "happiness" in between (and I admit that those moments recall somewhat to harem animes ). But there's also psychological suffering like in HTNT, they just don't show it. We don't know all the atrocities they had to endure on the laboratories (we just saw a tiny slice of it). The fact that we don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there, and you can imagine pretty much what happened (c'mon, there's already a lot of atrocities on the show! do you want more?).
The fact that characers don't revolve again and again about their suffering and try to carry a normal life is pretty realistic. Well, it depends on your personality: get up again and try to continue your life or linger in your past and pain forever. I'd do the same.

Spoiler:


I'd like to remark that I like very much both animes (EL & HTNT). Don't think of my post as a "which series is better" rant, but more like "don't see why this is better than that" reply.
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Old 2004-11-10, 07:33   Link #934
dreamless
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well, it really depends on how the comedies/tragedies play out, for example, I don't feel close to characters in Excel Saga or School Rumble, but IMO the characters in FLCL somehow feel closer (despite the same level or even more craziness of the show). It has really nothing to do with whether it's pessimistic or optimistic, or whether it's tragedy or comedy. I don't see NTHT being pessimistic forever, on the contrary NTHT is quite optimistic... actually NTHT must have the most optimistic main protagonist of all time

I think Elfen Lied just doesn't spend too much efforts in developing its characters, it mostly just goes for one or two powerful shock scenes, or one or two cute happy scenes. when Nana goes through those terrible events I'm shocked, when Nana goes through those cute happy scenes I feel she's extremely lovely, however those are from spectator's view point, I never feel getting immersed into the fictional world experiencing those events beside those characters.

And this is nothing about "better" or "worse" IMO, they are just different shows. For example, I don't think Excel Saga is a bad show, and it never intends to immerse the view into its fictional world to begin with, it's just a show for the viewer to watch the craziness of Excel and co. and laugh as a spectator, but not to really feel right beside the characters. I never feel Excel's crazy "love" when she's dropped into the water hole again and again, I just laugh Same goes to Elfen Lied, when I see those horrible things happened to Nana, I feel as a spectator and think "this is horrible", but not feel right besides Nana and think "I feel Nana's pain", different from NTHT where I can say that I myself almost feel Sara's pain and suffering like go through those events with her. And I don't think Elfen Lied tried to make the viewers really feel like right besides the characters and experiencing the events with them anyway.
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Old 2004-11-10, 20:18   Link #935
Elbowlick
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And now... another Nana comic. : )



The Elfen Lied manga was about this subtle, I think. : )

Also, here's a gunslinger girl one:



(more here: http://manga.clone-army.org/nana.html )


Anyway, I have to agree that EL doesn't have much character development... rather, it's just a rollercoaster ride of pain and suffering. : )
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Old 2004-11-10, 20:27   Link #936
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbowlick
And now... another Nana comic. : )



The Elfen Lied manga was about this subtle, I think. : )
Oh man, why am I laughing at this?!?!? ^___^;;
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Old 2004-11-10, 23:24   Link #937
MiT
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Awwww poor nana! I feel horrible for chuckling at that.
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Old 2004-11-11, 02:50   Link #938
Emotive_Adamantium
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I thought I might post my review of Elfen Lied from Animenfo.com here just to vent some steam after watching the series.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Overall: Somewhere between an orgasm and being reborn as a god.

Enjoyment: No matter how many times I see it, I'm still amazed. This series somehow manages to pick up material from nearly every anime cliché in existence and turn them all into one intricate, psychological mess. Like some sort of snug, velvety quagmire.

Animation: This director gives us a solid example of modern, ground breaking cinematography. Everything from the imagery, to the camera angles; the visual experience is a consortium of all the right things to do.

Sound: Technically speaking, I've rarely heard sound cues as crisp, and well-placed. Voice talent's fresh. And I still bought the soundtrack even with import fees what they are.

Story: The story-telling pace never dropped. It began at peak level in episode 1 and was maintained all the way through episode 13. Future authors and script writers better take good notes on this one. Slight variations from the manga, but the source material is so good that no direction they could have taken would have marred its beauty. Bravo to the Manga author Rin Okamoto, who, mere months before the popularization of this story, was just another malnourished artist living in a tattered apartment complex.

Harem: Although it would have been easy for the few pinches of harem to spoil the show, luckily, there's simply too much happening for the characters to stumble into this pitfall. In fact, without this spice, the whole meal wouldn't have been nearly as well-balanced. It's a good thing they remembered to keep the cap on the shaker, unlike so much else out there.

Favorite aspects:
1) The art from the introduction. Much better than Austrian painter Gustav Klimt, whose work the scenes and poses were modeled after.
2) The song from the introduction.
3) Both Lucy/Nyu and young Lucy, whose overal impression is like a mix between Haruko from FLCL, Lain, my pet cat, and monster #4 from Ridley Scott's 1979 epic horror thriller "Alien".

Similar Anime: Hellsing, Berserk.

Thoughts: It's a forgivable sin of eastern culture, but many animes end up travelling one of two paths:
1) After the series begins, if it gets its ratings, it will ride that wave and stretch the plot and length of episodes, stuffing everything with filler. Meanwhile the characters become describable in three sentences tops. By the time it reaches its predictable fan-servicing ending, sure, you'll be satisfied, but what it's left behind isn't so much the work of art it could have been, as it is an old toy with bits and pieces broken everywhere and a lot of fond memories.
2)Then, there are the animes like Elfen Lied, which, although were much shorter, had more soul and substance. They are more like the toy you would always covet but could never afford. Are there regrets for not ever getting to call it your own and keep it with you? Sure, a few. But there's something that can be said for the short time you knew it, and perhaps it wouldn't hold such a revered place in your memory if you ever really got to keep it.

Something to consider: Some reviewers before me have said "Lucy was a murderer that killed in cold blood. She’s a monster..." Any Zoologist would tell you that predatorial species are essential for the ultimate survival and variety of an ecosystem's animal kingdom. The Diclonius are a predatorial species. And considering that humans do such substantial damage to all species below them in the food chain, it can be viewed that the Diclonius, who prey only on humans, are a perfect answer for the balance of nature.

Bottom line, if the frankness and mature themes got to you, first of all you should never have even watched it, and secondly, don't let it sway the ratings you give if you're writing a fair review. Enough said.

Here's hoping to some well-placed OVA's or, devil-be-willing, a large enough Elfen-craving fan base in Japan for a 2nd season when there's enough of the manga for it.

Ending remarks? ... *puffs out a sigh* Nyu is sooo cute! Good Kitty! *pets*

__________________________________________________ _______________


Anyway, I have a theory about why the Diclonius don't seem to ever attack Kurama. Perhaps it is because he's the only character in the entire anime that's actually killed a Diclonius? They said in one of the episodes that he had killed something like 14 so far, and I'm pretty sure that was one of the flashback episodes, so it's likely he's been the one killing most of the unnecessary Diclonius babies in the facility since.

Now, considering the Diclonius only seem to kill humans and have no instinctual drive to gratuitously kill anything else, maybe there's some connection, some further unstated rules of their species about killing. Maybe they can 'sense' that Kurama's killed them in the past, and maybe this frightens them away from messing with him. Remember the first episode, when Lucy slaughtered everyone but Kurama, and just walked past him? Remember that we could actually see that one of her vectors left a red, bloody print of its 'hand' on his back? I wonder if that was Lucy patting him on the back out of respect?
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Old 2004-11-12, 13:45   Link #939
SpOiLeR
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just finished this series and reading this thread. i couldnt agree with you guys more.

can anyone explain who was that person at the end of the anime? if its nyuu/lucy then i would seriously have to call that BS. i mean, she cannot survive a gunfight from both sides from like 50 men?

and about a second season? couldnt that be possible.
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Old 2004-11-12, 15:11   Link #940
intruder1
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Where can I get it?

I wanted to know if anyone can tell me where I can purchase the DVDs and the manga? I have found one site, but since I can't read japanese characters, I'm kinda stuck. If it isn't out here in the US, (translated to english) are there plans for a release? And if that's the case, who will be publishing them? When are they due out?
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