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Old 2004-11-25, 10:28   Link #1021
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entryway
Lets go over the obvious stuff
Sorry, but I'm still neither convinced nor buying it all your explanation. Some parts I agree with you, but the vast majority not.

I'm the kind of folk that needs to listen, view, and understand both the objective and subjective issues.

I don't simply know how do I feel about the anime. It left me confused for the last two episodes. Some parts I did felt empathy for: a) Lucy's childhood trauma; rotten kids may burn in hell and b) Kouta's childhood trauma; just to name this two examples for a start.

The staff that worked around the anime seems that were very persistent to depict a full atmosphere of isolation, but I feel they weren't able to handle subtle changes from isolation to separation among the characters.
I also disliked how the anime crew treated the characters: like they were left incompleted or unfinished with a few of them leaving some business pending.

And I really disliked totally how they portrayed Lucy. The anime just left me with an array of jumbled, confused feelings for her.
That's why I'm reading the manga, and man it has delivered me from many kinds of doubts and mixed feelings within the moral, psychological, and emotional aspects.
I simply love and hate, at the same time, the manga version for Lucy. No matter how much do I call her the EVIL GODDESS of carnage and despise her at all, she manages to earn my sympathy and empathy. Okamoto-san portrays the complete, full side of her psychosis. She doesn't hold back her hatred and disdain against people to the boiling point of making others more miserable than how she was or felt at the beginning through physical and mental torture; she's playing with their feelings just like people in the past did toyed with her.
I just hope that in the manga, Lucy touches rock-bottom into the abyss of mysogyny and psychotic insanity, and in case she's already there, then falling even deeper into utter, evil psychosis.

On the other hand, the anime crew simply just watered down her personality. I felt that she just contained her inner rage and sadness. Even when we get into the apoligizing scene with Kouta, she still holds back lots of the stress, burden, and hellish trauma that she's been exposed and suffered through.

Therefore, I'm not convinced with your reply for my questions 1-5 and 9. It's not that easy to come up with those conclusions for Lucy given that she always internalized all of her conflicting emotions in the anime.
That's what the show needed handfully. Study, exploration, and empathy understanding of the main characters troubles, nature, current personality, outcomed desires from their personal traumas, and importantly their illusions.

The manga fills little by little about the protagonists present personalities, however, takes it time without giving out too much.
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Old 2004-11-25, 11:47   Link #1022
entryway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Sorry, but I'm still neither convinced nor buying it all your explanation.
Well it was supposed to be a joke (knowing how obvious the series is) but I see it was a bad one

Quote:
It's not that easy to come up with those conclusions for Lucy given that she always internalized all of her conflicting emotions in the anime.
That's what the show needed handfully. Study, exploration, and empathy understanding of the main characters troubles, nature, current personality, outcomed desires from their personal traumas, and importantly their illusions.
Well I'm not trying to speculate about Lucy's emotions and certainly cant guess what was left out of the picture. We're supposed to draw conclusions from what we have at the moment. Since the characters spend so little time together (especially "evil" Lucy and Kouta) flashbacks are really all we get to relate the current events to. Guess I dont pay much attention to all the killing and really think it's quite consequential. We all have that ability to begin with just that our thoughts arent enough.

One of the things I also dont want to touch is trying to justify/condemn Lucy. Any ideas about how it all happened are interesting though.
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Old 2004-11-25, 15:29   Link #1023
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entryway
Well I'm not trying to speculate about Lucy's emotions and certainly cant guess what was left out of the picture.
That's why I suggest to everybody else to look forward and give a try to the manga.
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Old 2004-11-25, 15:39   Link #1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
That's why I suggest to everybody else to look forward and give a try to the manga.
well for one thing the manga filled in some holes in the series like what really happened after battle with 35 and lucy and nana and director

as for drawing conclusions.... well doing it from the manga will be better because lucy is best shown there....... every character is displayed more originally like how lucy is alot more evil and less sympathetic to anyone.
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Old 2004-11-26, 04:46   Link #1025
entryway
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Well if there's something in the manga that might be of interest feel free to bring that up. Especially on how else they explain the "unforgiving evil godess" leaving Kouta and Yuka alive
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Old 2004-11-26, 09:40   Link #1026
Guido
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The manga can be discussed in its respective thread within AnimeSuki.

Anyone else interested should visit the following link below:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=22214

Read, discuss, ask questions, and post anything related to the manga once you get there.
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Old 2004-11-26, 20:12   Link #1027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entryway
Well if there's something in the manga that might be of interest feel free to bring that up. Especially on how else they explain the "unforgiving evil godess" leaving Kouta and Yuka alive
more non sympathetic and more unforgiving does not always mean she will take everyones life.
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Old 2004-11-27, 13:31   Link #1028
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Random Thoughts

Just a few ramblings here on my part.

First, let me say that I am very glad that my wife does not have vectors. If she did then I would not be here to write this. Just imagine Lucy with PMS.

There were some who did not like the ending song. While the tone did not seem to fit the mood of the show, I thought that it was a perfect statement of the way both Lucy/Nyu and Yuka felt about Kouta.

It would appear to me that Lucy was a second generation diclonius just like Nana. She appears to be about the same age as Kouta, which would make her 9 or 10 when they first met and 17 or 18 when they met again. Nana appears to be about the same age as Mayu which would make her around 14. That would make Lucy about four years older than Nana. Since the Institute was not started till the first Diclonius started to kill after they reached 3 years old and since Nana had been there since she was born, that would make the oldest Diclonius in the Institute about 4 years older than Nana, or about the same age as Lucy. Also, she was in an orphanage and everyone knew that she had horns, including just about anyone she could have infected. They would have easily traced it back to her if she was the source. It is likely that whoever or whatever is the source can move around unnoticed and is probably just spreading the virus, not killing anyone. Which brings up another question. Is Lucy the only diclonius Eve? Perhaps there are others who had reasonably happy childhoods, then found their Adams, got married, and are raising the “Destruction of Mankind” and never killed anyone. Perhaps that is why the Chief no longer cared about Lucy’s life. Maybe he had gotten word of one or more Human/Diclonius hybrids being born.

I thought that the best part of the last episode was when Lucy told Nana to go back to Kouta’s house and live the life that she couldn’t. In fact, I got the impression that the last two times that Lucy changed into Nyu she did it deliberately because she wanted to stay with Kouta and she knew that she could not do it as Lucy.

It appeared to me that Lucy was trying to die at the end. She knew that Kouta could not kill her in spite of the promise so she let the soldiers do it. She shot her vectors into the air so she could not instinctively protect herself and then let them shoot her. I do not, however, think that she died. I do think that was her, as Nyu since her horns had not grown back yet, at the end. She already remembered, as Nyu, killing Kouta’s sister. That was why she was apologizing before. I think that she may also remember Kouta telling her that he could never forgive her. That is why she is hesitating. She wants to see Kouta more than anything, but she is afraid that he will reject her and she couldn’t stand that. Also, I don’t think that she is alone. If it is to continue along the line of the Manga I think that she would go off the side of the bridge, seriously wounded, and be rescued by Bando. He has his own code and would feel that he owed her one for letting him live so he would rescue her to repay that, figuring to get his revenge after she recovered. Having someone else kill her would not suit someone like him. He would realize that her Nyu personality was not the same as Lucy and killing her as Nyu would not give him any pleasure. So, when she was healed enough he would let her lead him to where she was staying so he could watch and wait for her to revert to Lucy again. And the Institute would not send more Diclonius to try and locate her until after she had time to grow her horns back.

And I think that seeing Bando die saving Mayu from Lucy could get Kouta in a mood similar to what people have described in the Manga.
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Old 2004-11-28, 12:01   Link #1029
MakubeX2
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Mariko ?




Tried making a Nyuu too, but no pink hair avaliable.......

Will see about a Nana.....
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Old 2004-11-28, 12:06   Link #1030
dreamless
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Ohhhhh.... ILLUSION... so you play games from them too...
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Old 2004-11-30, 02:05   Link #1031
Guido
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I expected that the trend for Elfen Lied die down after a couple of weeks since the last episode broadcast, however, everyone here managed to make it last long.
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Old 2004-11-30, 02:10   Link #1032
Maceart
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man this thread has over 1000 posts, we need a seperate forum thread! too tiring to go through 52 pages of posts

anyways, elfen lied kicks @$$, and that's my 2 cents on it
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Old 2004-11-30, 03:01   Link #1033
entryway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer
more non sympathetic and more unforgiving does not always mean she will take everyones life.
Lucy mowing through innocent strangers but sparing the girl she promised to kill is just too significant to be considered a random act or a plot hole
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Old 2004-11-30, 22:17   Link #1034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entryway
Lucy mowing through innocent strangers but sparing the girl she promised to kill is just too significant to be considered a random act or a plot hole
Maybe she did not want to hurt Kohta or somthing like that.... Did anyone notice, that Nyuu seemed to remember abit of what lucy did to people?
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Old 2004-11-30, 23:57   Link #1035
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lucy may be a lunatic killer by she doesnt want to hurt kouta or his feelings and by killing his friends she is hurting him?

lol i need sleep
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Old 2004-11-30, 23:58   Link #1036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
I expected that the trend for Elfen Lied die down after a couple of weeks since the last episode broadcast, however, everyone here managed to make it last long.
More support damn it!!!
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Old 2004-12-01, 00:08   Link #1037
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
I expected that the trend for Elfen Lied die down after a couple of weeks since the last episode broadcast, however, everyone here managed to make it last long.
It's to be expected as most people watch the subs and post there comments as the subs are being released. Elfen Lied is one of those shows that scream "Hey look at me, I'm different from the others". I was a little disappointed how they ended the series. I hope they continue the series with a new season otherwise it'll be a shame. I look forward to the DVD's when they get released here in the states.
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Old 2004-12-01, 03:00   Link #1038
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitaro
I was a little disappointed how they ended the series. I hope they continue the series with a new season otherwise it'll be a shame.
Definitely, agreed.

Elfen Lied has lots of potential regarding the characters: emotions, relationships, illusions, troubled pasts, and current personal selves.

As also for the plot.

Just hope that the R2 DVD's will sell and are selling decently or good back in Japan.
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Old 2004-12-01, 20:21   Link #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Definitely, agreed.

Elfen Lied has lots of potential regarding the characters: emotions, relationships, illusions, troubled pasts, and current personal selves.

As also for the plot.

Just hope that the R2 DVD's will sell and are selling decently or good back in Japan.
maybe they cliff hanged us so they can have more time to draw more?? lol
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Old 2004-12-02, 13:01   Link #1040
Elbowlick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
Elfen Lied has lots of potential regarding the characters: emotions, relationships, illusions, troubled pasts, and current personal selves.
That kind of potential combined with that kind of ending is exactly the kind of thing that fuels doujinshi and fan comics. : )

I mean, it worked on me ~~ NANA FANCOMIC ENSUES!


More here: http://manga.clone-army.org/nana.html

Honestly, as a crazy Nana fanboy, I found the ending very satisfying; who cares about Lucy? Nana survived; that's all that matters. : )
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