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Old 2004-12-17, 19:18   Link #1101
Chronissz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
the problem is, how Lucy manages to live without killing any one of those soldiers? also Nana is already a perfect proof that Diclonius can live without hurting anyone. And I'm not sure how do they atone for it? Or what do you mean by "atone for it"? Should they submit to human laws and let themselves get locked up for years in prison to atone for their crimes? I'm not really sure how to atone for the crime of killing innocent people...

For Nyuu/Lucy personality, at least in terms of manga, it's explained that the cause is the unique brain structure of Diclonius, not some personality created to escape reality.
Ok I shouldnt say attone for it, thats impossible, she shouldnt be looking for salvation or serenity within. The only solution I see here is for Lucy to keep on living, to provide love to others around her, and try to make the world a better place, even if only for one person, and that does not necessarily mean Kouta.

My take on it is that Lucy dieing does not solve anything, its a cruel ending that contradicts the theme of the show. If she were to die that would only spread more sadness in the world. I think she MUST live on, in a world where she is loved by the people around her, but at the same time she must never forget what she has done. Her only hope is to open herself up to others, and provide as much love and kindness as she can, not to show remorse for what she has done, but to help the world grow in any way she can. This is the only thing she can do for the victims of her insanity.

I have not read the manga, though I do intend to, but this is my opinion after finishing the anime just yesterday. I still think I need some time for this show to "sink in", its a very powerfull show that grows on me the more I think about it. I want to examine the show from a psychological standpoint though, I watched the show with that in mind from the beginning, and I will not accept a simple explanation like that. The Diclonius show to much human condition to simply write it off as a difference in brain structure.

Last edited by Chronissz; 2004-12-17 at 19:54.
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Old 2004-12-17, 20:28   Link #1102
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In the Elfen Lied world, if one death could make the world a better place, it would be the Director General.
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Old 2004-12-17, 22:07   Link #1103
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I secand that.

I thinks its all his fult!
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Old 2004-12-17, 22:46   Link #1104
Guido
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For everyone, I just like to say twenty-six words:

"For either many or most of us, if not all, please support for a continuation whether is reading throughout all of the manga or OVA releases."
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Old 2004-12-17, 22:47   Link #1105
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Quote:
Anyway I'm not arguing about technicialities here, I just think you shouldn't judge what Lucy has done and the theme of the series with too much thoughts about human morality and legal issues.
I have watched the series twice now and I simply cannot feel any other way for Lucy. She did not commit her murders from instinct, she did it because she was angry at the world and thats that is made quite clear. Its physically impossible for me to sit their and just say to myself, "Oh no, Its perfectly OK for all those innocent people to die because its her INSTINCT to kill, oh yeah."

Also as side note while its on my mind, NOTE EVEN all animals are allowed to be just let off on violent instinct either. Dogs just for example are almost always ordered to be put down if they attack out of nowhere at innocent people.

EDIT: In the end, as I said way back earlier, I do not hate Lucy and I do sympathize and feel sorry for the pain she went through while younger, I do not wish her to die. But her selfish and unnecessary killing of Kouta's sister and father, and those other innocent people who had nothing to do with her, is not something I can ever simply ignore or accept as reasonable. She's a sentient intelligent being and as such she cannot be let off on the excuse of "killing instinct" because unlike an animal she has a choice and she knew that blindly killing people was wrong.

Last edited by Icehawk; 2004-12-18 at 03:01.
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Old 2004-12-18, 04:15   Link #1106
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronissz
This is the only thing she can do for the victims of her insanity.
Hmmm... that's something she can do for the world, but not for the victims... she can't really do anything for the dead...
Quote:
I have not read the manga, though I do intend to, but this is my opinion after finishing the anime just yesterday. I still think I need some time for this show to "sink in", its a very powerfull show that grows on me the more I think about it. I want to examine the show from a psychological standpoint though, I watched the show with that in mind from the beginning, and I will not accept a simple explanation like that. The Diclonius show to much human condition to simply write it off as a difference in brain structure.
well, since the sedatives injected into Nyuu only works for Nyuu, not for Lucy, I think even the anime suggests the split personality is something biological, not psychological. (if it's some psychological split personality stuff, then there's no reason why the sedative puts Nyuu into sleep but awakes Lucy...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icehawk
In the end, as I said way back earlier, I do not hate Lucy and I do sympathize and feel sorry for the pain she went through while younger, I do not wish her to die. But her selfish and unnecessary killing of Kouta's sister and father, and those other innocent people who had nothing to do with her, is not something I can ever simply ignore or accept as reasonable. She's a sentient intelligent being and as such she cannot be let off on the excuse of "killing instinct" because unlike an animal she has a choice and she knew that blindly killing people was wrong.
I'm not saying you should ignore all the atrocities Lucy has done, or it's perfectly okay for those innocent people getting slaughtered, or it's reasonable in human perspective. I'm pretty sure the vector Lucy personality doesn't think blindly killing people is wrong, actually the vecotr Lucy personality obviously thinks that killing every human in the world is the right thing to do, she sees humans as nothing more than lowly pests. So it's perfectly reasonable and morally right in the eyes of the vector Lucy personality to kill innocent people. Of course in human terms, we'd call the vector Lucy personality something "insane", some psychopath, but that's something integral to the Diclonius species due to their different brain structure.
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Old 2004-12-18, 10:32   Link #1107
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she fully heartly wanted to kill everyone... that was the point of her form.. it's said so by the director and herself at the end.
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Old 2004-12-18, 13:13   Link #1108
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I'm sure anyone who has spent a life time in that facility would like to kill everyone...
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Old 2004-12-18, 13:35   Link #1109
dreamless
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Lucy was already bent on killing off the entire humanity before she got captured into the facility.
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Old 2004-12-18, 15:28   Link #1110
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
Lucy was already bent on killing off the entire humanity
That's why it is SAD

Painful childhood abuse + Only friend lying to her + Psychopathic instinct personality within her mind = Genocider of Humankind.
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Old 2004-12-18, 16:21   Link #1111
Chronissz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido
That's why it is SAD

Painful childhood abuse + Only friend lying to her + Psychopathic instinct personality within her mind = Genocider of Humankind.
Yep, I cant write it off as, oh she was designed to kill so thats why she did everything. We know there was a large psychological aspect to it, that was apparent throughout the entire show. Why bother showing her childhood experiences if she always had this inherent will to kill?

Because she didnt, she was pushed to the limits of her sanity and snapped, that was shown in detail when she was in school and they killed the dog, in part I agree it has something to do with her vectors, but its not the entirity of it, and I even go as far as to say its not the majority.

Remember she had a direct talk with her other personality before she murdered everyone at the festival. She was conscious of her actions and truly knew them to be wrong, this is the point where her normal personality descended into true darkness and she let the dormant psychopath personality surface. That dormant psychopath personality was created the day she slaughtered the kids in the school, once you kill one time it changes you for the rest of your life. The problem with Lucy was that she killed at such a young age that she couldnt control herself, she didnt have the maturity to comprehend everything, and she was incredibly confused with what she had done and was going to continue doing.

If a human child had the powers she had, and was through what she went through, that human child would almost definitly do exactly what Lucy did, to write off her actions as saying she is a diclonius so thats why she did everything is like taking the easy way out. In my opinion the lesson to be learned from the show is this, Humans are no better then Diclonius, they might be mass murderers, but if they are it was caused by us humans to begin with. Without our negative interference in their lives they would grow up to be just like us, but when you subject them to these sick experiments and mental abuse, they snap, just like humans would, the only difference is they have something that allows them to lash out in a way humans could never do.

The main fault for Lucy is that as she grew up she started to like killing people, she seemed to do it just because she could, it no longer had a psychological aspect too it, she had just become a monster. If ever the vectors would be responsible this would be when they were. As an adult she still killed almost everyone in sight, but she had the ability to stop at any time, I think she had made up her mind that because she had been doing it for so long it was OK to just wipe out all humans. That was what she was designed for in the first place, thats what everyone had been telling her, and she used that excuse to rationalize her actions. This is the number one problem with Lucy, when given the chance to stop she didnt, she did not even attempt to stop. The only question is, after confronting Kouta, has she come to terms with who she was, and can she understand why this rampant killing is unjustified?

After her first confrontation with Kouta (In her real personality) did she ever kill without provocation again? I cannot recall if she did, but I certainly dont remember her doing so. I remember that she was ready to kill without thought, but once she saw who it was it changed her, it made her come to terms with herself and remember the past, from that moment on she was changed, the human characteristics within her, compassion, remorse, regret, they all came to the surface.

Last edited by Chronissz; 2004-12-18 at 17:15.
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Old 2004-12-18, 18:53   Link #1112
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Holy Crapola... who opened up this can of worms..?

I'm not even going to start to reply to those, but I *would* like to see is them releasing a sequel or an OVA that continues from the end of the TV anime. Let's go back being a simpleminded thread and start guessing what the continuation would be like if there is one? I think it's most likely they'll follow the manga's example and have Nyuu come back with her horns gone, therefore sealing away the Lucy personality as well as vectors. Well...

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-12-18, 23:58   Link #1113
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That bastard got his tongue

Spoiler:


Good riddance, another one of the Director's son killed off by Lucy.
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Old 2004-12-19, 01:56   Link #1114
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Originally Posted by Colonel-
That bastard got his tongue

Spoiler:

WHA!? NO HE DIDN'T *runs off to check EL75*

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-12-20, 10:37   Link #1115
da_man741852963
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dunno if you guys noticed this, but there was a series of discussion back in page 30 to 40ish talking about the planned project of an ova. No need to hope because it is being planned.
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Old 2004-12-20, 15:29   Link #1116
Icehawk
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Hmmm, it would suck if they only come out with one single half hour OVA to continue the story. Should make it a whole second season.
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Old 2004-12-20, 15:59   Link #1117
Reaver4k
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Lets Hope so, and lets hope its more then 13 eps.
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Old 2004-12-20, 17:54   Link #1118
Sushi-Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by da_man741852963
dunno if you guys noticed this, but there was a series of discussion back in page 30 to 40ish talking about the planned project of an ova. No need to hope because it is being planned.
That was supposedly a 30 minute original OVA episode to be included at the last DVD release (7th Note), probably because 7 DVDs don't divide into 13 episodes cleanly, the 7th DVD will only have the last (13th) episode so they needed to fill it up with another 30 minutes of something. It's an original story that's not connected with the main plot, like a gaiden or something, that revolves around Nana. While what we would really like to see is a sequel TV season or at least a sequel OVA series. But I suppose that depends a lot on coporate interests and sponsoring. If they do make one though, they'd have to start fixing things like death of Kurama (shouldn't be hard: Bando saves him, or Mariko pushing him away with her vectors at the last moment are all plausible). And the anime would probably have to get Nozomi in the picture at some point. And assuming Lucy lived but with her horns broken, therefore sealing Lucy and vectors away, leaving only Nyuu, who matures quickly. Other than that, the anime can pretty much pick up in the same way the manga volume 8 started with no problems. Like I said though, I think it depends a lot on coporate and public interest.
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Old 2004-12-20, 19:00   Link #1119
MakubeX2
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There's that little point about Kouta not recovering from his selected amnesia in the manga as opposed to his anime counterpart.....
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Old 2004-12-20, 22:05   Link #1120
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakubeX2
There's that little point about Kouta not recovering from his selected amnesia in the manga as opposed to his anime counterpart.....
That's why, if ever there's a faint hope for the producers to come up with an OVA continuation or second season, they should follow what Sushi-Y explains below given that the manga's now moving into a more macabre and darker pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi-Y
As for the possibility of a sequel, by looking at where the manga is now (further and further away from the anime story), the only way for this to work would have to be something along the line of Full Metal Alchemist, where anime and manga branched out and went on with two different storylines.
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