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Old 2009-10-10, 23:15   Link #2761
Raiga
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Quick question, on Japanese "alphabetical order," as in hiragana ordering, the way it'd go in a dictionary...

For the versions with the dakuten... like, would it be ordered like this:

かき(きゃきゅきょ)くけこがぎ(ぎゃぎゅぎょ)ぐげご

Or like this:

かがき(きゃきゅきょ)ぎ(ぎゃぎゅぎょ)くぐけげこご

?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and does ぱ come first or does ば come first?

EDIT2: Oh yeah also, where does っ go in the dictionary? For example, does いっしょ come first or いま in the dictionary?
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Last edited by Raiga; 2009-10-11 at 00:31.
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Old 2009-10-11, 02:32   Link #2762
mendokusa
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to Raiga
japanese dictioinary have 2 type.
one type is,
"が"and"か"mixed
かいこく(開国)、がいこく(外国)、かいこし(買い越し)
か、が、き、ぎ、きゃ、きや、ぎゃ、ぎや、きゅ、きゆ、ぎゅ、ぎゆ、きょ、きよ、ぎょ、ぎよ、く、ぐ、け、 げ、こ、ご

は、ば、ぱ、ひ、び、ぴ、ひゃ、ひや、びゃ、びや、ぴゃ、ぴや、ひゅう、ひゆ、びゅ、びゆ、ぴゅ、ぴゆ、ひ ょ、ひよ、びょ、びよ、ぴょ、ぴよ、ふ、ぶ、ぷ、ふぁ、ふあ、ふぃ、ふい、ふぇ、ふえ、ふぉ、ふお、へ、べ 、ぺ、ほ、ぼ、ぽ
this type is used more than next.

another type is,
”が”is after ”か”
かいこく、かいこし・・・・・がいこく
か、が、き、きゃ、きや、きゅ、きゆ、きょ、きよ、ぎ、ぎゃ、ぎや、ぎゅ、ぎゆ、ぎょ、ぎよ、く、ぐ、け、 げ、こ、ご

は、ば、ぱ、ひ、ひゃ、ひや、ひゅう、ひゆ、ひょ、ひよ、び、びゃ、びや、びゅ、びゆ、びょ、びよ、ぴ、ぴ ゃ、ぴや、ぴゅ、ぴゆ、ぴょ、ぴよ、ふ、ふぁ、ふあ、ふぃ、ふい、ふぇ、ふえ、ふぉ、ふお、ぶ、ぷ、へ、べ 、ぺ、ほ、ぼ、ぽ

btw,when”ゃゅょっ”,”や”and”ゃ”mix and”きゃ”is before"きや"
きゃ(脚)、きや(木屋)、きゃあ
"っ"is "つ",so there is "っ"after"ち" before"て"
いち、いっさ、いっしょ、いっせい、いて、いま
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Old 2009-10-11, 11:15   Link #2763
Raiga
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Okay, great, I think I got it, thanks. ^^
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Old 2009-10-11, 14:05   Link #2764
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Okay one more thing. Does っ come before or after つ?
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:41   Link #2765
mendokusa
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there is ”つ”after”っ”
かって、かつて

btw,vowel before"ー",”コール”is"o",there is "ー"before "お"
コール、こおる
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Old 2009-10-24, 23:05   Link #2766
iLney
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k, let's revive this thread.

Quick question:

A:すぐ行きません。
...............
A:ぞ、おれ仕事入っていたから。

Apparently, the first sentence must mean "I'll be right there." But why "行きません?"
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Old 2009-10-24, 23:17   Link #2767
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Actually the first one means "I'm not going immediately (but will later)"
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Old 2009-10-24, 23:26   Link #2768
mendokusa
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I can't understand "ぞ".
but ”すぐ行きません。”is "why don't you go there soon? "
raise the tone at the end of this sentence.
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Old 2009-10-24, 23:58   Link #2769
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Ugh I forgot how sometimes they don't put question marks even if it is a question
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Old 2009-10-25, 00:18   Link #2770
Ansalem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendokusa View Post
but ”すぐ行きません。”is "why don't you go there soon? " raise the tone at the end of this sentence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Ugh I forgot how sometimes they don't put question marks even if it is a question
Well, a question mark is generally only included if the sentence is a question and it doesn't end in the sentence-ending particle か。So すぐ行きません。meaning as mendokusa suggests would generally either be written as すぐ行きません? Or すぐ行きませんか。In general, questions written in ます-form end with か and using raised intonation is more frequently used for short-form questions, as in すぐ行かない?
It's more difficult to translate with only half of the conversation, but I'd find it odd for that to be translated as ”I'll be right there、” Which would normally be written with those words as すぐ行きます。Or something similar.
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Old 2009-10-25, 03:07   Link #2771
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Yeah I know all that already, but considering the many things Jap crazifies, I assumed it was another one of those things. But I do see that the sentence itself is weird on its own here.
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:37   Link #2772
mendokusa
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Almost japanese sentence can become questions , when that raise the tone at the end of this sentence.
it confirm ok.
すぐ行きません?
すぐ行きます?
those are not very different.
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Old 2009-10-25, 07:43   Link #2773
Ansalem
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Originally Posted by mendokusa View Post
Almost japanese sentence can become questions , when that raise the tone at the end of this sentence.
it confirm ok.
すぐ行きません?
すぐ行きます?
those are not very different.
Yeah. My main point is that when written, questions are supposed to have a か or a question mark, which the original sentence was missing, thus being confusing if it was indeed meant that way.
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Old 2009-10-25, 10:25   Link #2774
iLney
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Thanks for the respond. I figure that a context should always be provided。Here it is:

A man and a woman were talking. The phone rang.

The man: すぐ行きませ(ん).

There was no emphasis at the end of the sentence. He said it flat. Plus, the man was looking for every possible reason to meet the caller so I think that "I'll be right there" makes sense.

<He hung up>
The man: [ぞおれ] [仕事入っていたから.]
"well, I got work to do."

He said it that way and left.

Ah, and they were what I heard I am positive about the first one. For the second, it could have been: ”じょおれ" ”じょうおれ” but they didn't make any sense. "ぞ" is used at the end of the sentence (only?) but it was the least "wrong," I think.
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Old 2009-10-25, 14:31   Link #2775
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Hmm if that's just how you're hearing it (and there's no written form of it provided), you may just be mishearing what he's saying. I used to do it all the time in my class.
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Old 2009-10-28, 12:52   Link #2776
iLney
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Well, I'm 100% sure that it was "すぐ行きま...." and sen, sem, se.... but not su.

Thank you very much though. Next question:

よく言うよ!

I thought it were "well said" but the translation wrote "Bullshit" ?!
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Old 2009-10-28, 13:32   Link #2777
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Don't know what translator that is O_o, but it is as you thought.
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Old 2009-10-28, 18:12   Link #2778
mendokusa
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the sentence is near "Bullshit".
"well said" is "よく言った!"

よく(そんなことを)言うよ!
when be shocked with sticks or as a joke,use this sentence.

A:僕は君が好きだ。(I love you!)
B:昨日彼女と別れたばかりで、よく言うよ!( yesterday you broke with another girl at once.Bullshit!)
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Old 2009-10-28, 18:28   Link #2779
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Is that a cultural thing? The most offensive I could read it would be "I definitely am saying!"
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Old 2009-10-28, 19:34   Link #2780
Raiga
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I think it's sort of like "You dare to say that?/You have the nerve to say that?" There's something similar to that in Chinese, where you use the word for "good" but it's really more like you're saying you're amazed someone dares to do whatever it is you're talking about, than that what they're doing is actually "good."

I dunno, "well you say that" except sarcastic, or something? Or perhaps "you should talk!" or something.
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