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Old 2011-01-09, 21:54   Link #3281
[T]ensio[N]
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i was at barnes and noble the other day and i saw the rosetta stone japanese, which reminded about a friend who told me rosetta stone was a pretty good program
i'm about to download the torrent but i wanted to know if anybody knows any good reviews or had experience with it.... and if you did have experience with it, you could share how it works and how good it is.

what is the most common japanese written language?
hiragana, katakana, or kanji?
[for things like manga, animes, signs, buildings, etc.etc.]
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2011-01-09 at 23:35.
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Old 2011-01-09, 21:59   Link #3282
Flinch
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Not the best at explaining how it works, but it teaches you the language from the ground up. A good investment.
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Old 2011-01-09, 22:54   Link #3283
Vexx
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@Tension:
on topic: there is no "most common" ... all three are used, sometimes in the same sentence. The amount of kanji in a manga depends on the reading level of the target audience (since students learn kanji year by year from grade 1 through 12). Streets, buildings, and locations will be mostly kanji. Katakana is used for import words and as a sort of bold-italic-lookherenow! feature. It isn't uncommon for a single word to be made of a kanji coupled with a bit of hiragana.

I recommend you start off with hiragana, nail that, and then learn katakana. Kanji just add as you go along character by character as you encounter it.

Last edited by Vexx; 2011-01-10 at 16:01.
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:29   Link #3284
NoemiChan
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How do you write shimatta or chotto in hiragana? Can't find the symbol for a "tt" or any double letter words
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Old 2011-01-09, 23:51   Link #3285
Khu
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Any double letters are done with a small "tsu" before the double letter.
So chotto would be written: ちょっと
Shimatta: しまった
This applies across the board, as far as I know.
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Old 2011-01-10, 01:01   Link #3286
Magin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [T]ensio[N] View Post
i was at barnes and noble the other day and i saw the rosetta stone japanese, which reminded about a friend who told me rosetta stone was a pretty good program
i'm about to download the torrent but i wanted to know if anybody knows any good reviews or had experience with it.... and if you did have experience with it, you could share how it works and how good it is.

what is the most common japanese written language?
hiragana, katakana, or kanji?
[for things like manga, animes, signs, buildings, etc.etc.]
I understand that Rosetta stone is NOT worth one's time... and I definitely wouldn't shell out $300 or whatever it is for it personally

as for the most common written language... technically, they're all the Japanese written language. As was mentioned, all three can be blended into one sentence, and I understand that there's 1500 kanji that are of daily use
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Old 2011-01-10, 12:50   Link #3287
LeoXiao
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I found the Pimsleur lessons to work quite well for Japanese, since it teaches you most base sentences and forms, then if you watch a lot of anime you can build a vocabulary from there. I don't have to read the subtitles for two-thirds of the time now, and can even do lighter homework while watching/hearing.
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Old 2011-01-10, 14:38   Link #3288
Doughnuts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu View Post
Any double letters are done with a small "tsu" before the double letter.
So chotto would be written: ちょっと
Shimatta: しまった
This applies across the board, as far as I know.
The sokuon isn't used for a double 'n' consonant, but the ん kana is used instead. eg, you wouldn't write こっな, it's こんな。(There's a few exceptions for names though)
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Old 2011-01-10, 20:05   Link #3289
Raiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [T]ensio[N] View Post
what is the most common japanese written language?
hiragana, katakana, or kanji?
[for things like manga, animes, signs, buildings, etc.etc.]
As others have said, all three are part of the same written language, and work together to form sentences.

To perhaps make it clearer: all three writing systems have different purposes. Hiragana generally perform the grammatical functions in a sentence: they're used for particles, verb and adjective endings, conjunctions, etc. In-text readings of kanji are also given in hiragana. Kanji generally contain the core meanings in a sentence: the nouns, adjectives, verbs, and names that you're talking about. Katakana are generally used for foreign words, loanwords, sound effects, or emphasis.

There are exceptions of course. Oftentimes words that technically do have kanji will be written with hiragana or katakana, because the kanji is rare and/or complicated so people don't use it often. Even kanji that aren't particularly rare may be written in hiragana in materials aimed at a younger audience. Some words just don't have kanji forms, whereas a handful of foreign words that have become very commonly used in Japan have been given "honorary" kanji (like tabako (tobacco) or koohii (coffee)).

Another purpose of the writing systems that it might pay to be familiar with: when you look up a kanji in a dictionary, the kun'yomi (native Japanese readings) will be written in hiragana, whereas the on'yomi (Chinese-based readings) will be written in katakana.
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Old 2011-01-11, 00:56   Link #3290
[T]ensio[N]
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ah alright i see thanks guys
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Old 2011-01-11, 15:25   Link #3291
Himeji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
@Tension:
on topic: there is no "most common" ... all three are used, sometimes in the same sentence. The amount of kanji in a manga depends on the reading level of the target audience
Actually, there's not much difference. Only manga aimed at kids will only have little kanji. Manga aimed at teens will have full kanji, but will have furigana readings for the kanji. However, even a good amount of manga for adults still have furigana (at least for less common kanji).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
(since students learn kanji year by year from grade 1 through 12).
Not quite. In elementary school (years 1-6), students learn the 1006 kanji listed in the Gakunenbetsu kanji haibyou (School year classification distribution list). The first half learned in the first three years already covers the kanji used 80% of the time. The total list covers the kanji used 95% of the time.
In middle school (years 7-9), students learn the remaining kanji from the 1985 Jouyou (everyday use) kanji list as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magin View Post
I understand that Rosetta stone is NOT worth one's time... and I definitely wouldn't shell out $300 or whatever it is for it personally
I tried it once, and it's totally worthless - I learned absolutely *nothing* from it
That garbage isn't even worth 10€, much less the viciously overpriced sum they want for it.

For self-study books, I found the Assimil "Japanese with Ease" series nicely done:
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Ease-...4777255&sr=8-3

Don't be mislead by the title though. Japanese is a complex language and definitely something that you'll learn "with ease".
Also, self-study books can do only so much. If you want to learn it properly, attend Japanese courses at your university - that's a huge deal better than any self-study books ever could be.
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Old 2011-01-11, 16:28   Link #3292
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
How do you write shimatta or chotto in hiragana? Can't find the symbol for a "tt" or any double letter words
This... this made me smile, it's such an innocent question. xD

If you wanted to write 'chotto', keyboard input wise would be

c-h-o-t-t-o and it's usually enough.

Sometimes if i need a chiisai 'tsu', I double up on any constant and just erase the last character

k-k-u = っく 
p-p-u = っぷ

But that's just me.

All three alphabets are used interchangably as the others have said. Depending on the source of the reading material, the balance of all three differs.
Menu at a 'westernised' resturant = katakana
A children's storybook = hiragana
Newspaper = craploads of hard ass kanji

Just random tidbits of info for intermediate and upper levels...

Of course as the years pass and the natives get even more sadistic with their abusive use of foreign loan words 外来語(gairaigo), the generic rules between using hiragana and katakana are broken time and time again, you learn to try to keep up and just absorb and check out the meanings of stuff, while they keep on chopping and changing and mixing as they please.
和製英語(wasei eigo, also known as "abuse of the english language") is also a royal pain in the ass and sadly steadily increasing.
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Old 2011-01-12, 01:40   Link #3293
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khu View Post
Any double letters are done with a small "tsu" before the double letter.
So chotto would be written: ちょっと
Shimatta: しまった
This applies across the board, as far as I know.
Domo Arigatou Gozaimasss-su desu!!!!
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Old 2011-01-12, 03:21   Link #3294
Seitsuki
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Eh heh one last grammar tip, drop the desu from that sentence ^^;; verbal tics should stay that way and not be used in a RL situation
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Old 2011-01-12, 03:25   Link #3295
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Eh heh one last grammar tip, drop the desu from that sentence ^^;; verbal tics should stay that way and not be used in a RL situation

Just playing CUT-chu
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Old 2011-01-14, 03:56   Link #3296
RandomGuy
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While we're on the subject of kanji, any reactions to the adding of 196 kanji (and removal of 5) from the Jouyou Kanji list at the end of last year?

Reading it over, it seems to be mostly to remedy common kanji words that are otherwise forced to be written all or partly in hiragana--things like 挨拶 (aisatsu: greetings/manners), 曖昧 (aimai: vague), and 梗塞 (kousoku, as in 心筋梗塞: heart attack). But the weird thing is that most of them are unsimplified. At a glance, 麺 (men: noodles) is simplified (from 麵), but ones such as 餅 (mochi) and 箋 (as in 処方箋: prescription) are not. The article in the Asahi Shimbun that covered the change chalked it up to the digital age and the fact that most people type, rather than write, but one of the people I work with complains about the lack of consistency and says Japan is becoming more conservative in general, not just with the printed word.

Last edited by RandomGuy; 2011-01-14 at 04:08.
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Old 2011-01-16, 04:44   Link #3297
NoemiChan
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hey, what does these words (?) means... NI, JI, GA , TE, DE, MI, TA, MO, O, NO, ME, HA, FUE, YO, RE and many more two letter words. set examples please...
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Old 2011-01-16, 06:43   Link #3298
Khu
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...Those are all just syllables or combinations of sounds.

They're not words at all.

Where'd you get the words thing from? o_O
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Old 2011-01-16, 08:45   Link #3299
LeoXiao
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGuy View Post
While we're on the subject of kanji, any reactions to the adding of 196 kanji (and removal of 5) from the Jouyou Kanji list at the end of last year?

Reading it over, it seems to be mostly to remedy common kanji words that are otherwise forced to be written all or partly in hiragana--things like 挨拶 (aisatsu: greetings/manners), 曖昧 (aimai: vague), and 梗塞 (kousoku, as in 心筋梗塞: heart attack). But the weird thing is that most of them are unsimplified. At a glance, 麺 (men: noodles) is simplified (from 麵), but ones such as 餅 (mochi) and 箋 (as in 処方箋: prescription) are not. The article in the Asahi Shimbun that covered the change chalked it up to the digital age and the fact that most people type, rather than write, but one of the people I work with complains about the lack of consistency and says Japan is becoming more conservative in general, not just with the printed word.
I like it. Too much Hiragana takes up too much space.
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Old 2011-01-16, 12:27   Link #3300
Soviet
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The Jouyou Kanji are a crock of shit. There is a ridiculous amount of very common Kanji which are not on the list, those 196 new entries are a drop in the bucket.
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