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Old 2011-10-29, 02:28   Link #3441
Raiga
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I meant from a (standard?) Japanese class, all you will learn is those kanas in 1 year. I doubt many average students would be passing J-101 if they had to learn Kanji right off the bat as well.
At my school students are expected to have a vocabulary of ~150 kanji by the end of first year. It's fully possible for a first-year course to require students to master kana within the first month or two and start gradually introducing simple kanji after that. I mean, imagine what it must be like in Chinese language classes. You can't exactly use pinyin all year.

I don't know how the language program is set up at your school, but that sounds too slow to me, personally. Anyone self-studying, especially, should have the diligence to learn all the kana reliably well by the third week. Without mastery of the kana, you can't move on into anything more advanced; its the most basic of the basic.
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Old 2011-10-29, 02:46   Link #3442
Alchemist007
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Well my teacher emphasized vocabulary more than anything the first year. The second year we learned ~200 Kanji and more advanced sentence structure. IMO it's a good way to get the students knowing the words and speaking rather than throwing that many foreign letters at the same time. I mean I certainly would've handled a good number of Kanji just fine but it is what it is. Unfortunately my school didn't even have a proper degree for Japanese, just 4 semesters with the best teacher in the world
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Old 2011-11-01, 17:25   Link #3443
RandomGuy
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Back when I was in college, our studies were divided up between spoken and written (with the JSL and JWL textbooks, quirks and all). The goal was for us to start speaking from the get-go, but to be able to transition from romaji to kana by the end of the first term. (The JSL textbook itself is all romaji, but our grammar lectures used Japanese text.)

It's not unreasonable to start learning kanji in the first year, especially it's linked to new vocabulary (and also gives the basics of structure and stroke order before delving into more complex characters).
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Old 2011-11-02, 20:39   Link #3444
Mystique
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A source that was promoted by a Japanese affilated company as an option for self study with some help from natives for free.
Should be useful for those with very or no links to natives or courses in their area and are short on funds
There's also a friend exchange program included which may prove useful for convo practice.

Our new Members Area is now live! New lessons (on Japanese grammar, kanji, etc.), audio files on certain lessons, live Instructor Chat (with a REAL Japanese language instructor), and more! It's FREE so register now!

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If you want to learn the Japanese language (or "Nihongo" as it's called in Japanese) online, you've come to the right place! Our lessons can get you well on your way to learning how to speak, read, and write Nihongo - the Japanese language. On this site you will find such things as the Japanese alphabet (including Hiragana and Katakana) as well as Kanji, Japanese vocabulary, Japanese grammar, Japanese sentence structure, and common Japanese phrases. What sets us apart from other "learn how to speak Japanese" courses is that we teach you how to conjugate Japanese verbs and how to build your own Japanese sentences - things critical to becoming fluent in the Japanese language.
Free Japanese Lessons site
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Old 2011-11-12, 03:40   Link #3445
tomoko
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22=ni ju san
〇22=ni ju ni

50=hachi ju
〇50=go ju

hani ju=80

Another name
1 hi
2 hu
3 mi
4 ya
5 itu
6 muu
7 nana
8 ya
9 kokono
10 tou
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Old 2011-11-12, 05:50   Link #3446
Zakoo
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Hello, i have a little problem with the kanji.
Actually I don't know when they take ON-form or KUN-form. Isn't there a way to know this beforehand or you need to know the word?
A direct example would be kyonen (past year) and kotoshi (this year) where the kanji 年take two different forms.

Thank you in advance.
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Old 2011-11-12, 15:52   Link #3447
Magin
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A general rule of thumb that seems to work for me (not sure if it works 100% of the time though)

The on'yomi is usually applied when two (or perhaps more) kanji are next to each other... you use the kun'yomi when there's a kanji followed by hiragana... or at least, that's usually how it seems to work for me
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Old 2011-11-12, 17:31   Link #3448
Raiga
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Kun' readings are native Japanese readings while On' are derived from Chinese. The longer kanji compounds tend to take On' readings because they come from Chinese, while non-compound verbs and adjectives and single-kanji nouns are usually Kun' readings. This is not always the case, especially for common words that often have irregular readings. "kotoshi" is one such case. These you'll just have to remember.

You'll get used to distinguishing the readings eventually and learn to tell which are Japanese-derived and which are Chinese-derived. It just takes practice... lots and lots and lots of practice.
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Old 2011-11-13, 02:55   Link #3449
Zakoo
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Ok thank you a lot to you two, I know at least there is a general rule with a lot of exceptions.
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Old 2011-11-18, 23:05   Link #3450
Rising Dragon
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So learning Japanese is difficult enough--but now, my teacher has assigned my class to create two separate haiku in Japanese. It's nearly impossible for me to write poetry in English; how the hell am I supposed to do it in Japanese? Argh...
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Old 2011-11-19, 02:17   Link #3451
Alchemist007
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Shouldn't be too hard, dude, pretty short assignment your teacher gave too...we had to write...a lot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku


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Old 2011-11-19, 02:34   Link #3452
Rising Dragon
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I know the details on how to make a haiku, and the two important rules to it (5-7-5, season word). But my creativity doesn't extend to poetry--I've failed many, many assignments that concerned poetry throughout my life. Now I have to make two more in another language when I can't even do it with my own language.

EDIT: Hell, even translating that image's haiku won't work...
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Old 2011-11-19, 03:29   Link #3453
Raiga
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You can do it if you cut out a bit of meaning from the fridge haiku.

俳句とは
容易なものだ
冷蔵庫

Of course there's no 季語 in that one. :P

In all seriousness, just sit down and try to brainstorm stuff about the different seasons. What kind of animals or natural phenomena show up in each season? Ever made any interesting observations about nature? Look around you and be observant, and try to find elements of beauty, transience, and loneliness. Remember there are always handy words like けり or や that you can just drop on the end of a line that isn't long enough. And of course, don't forget the essence of a haiku: keep it simple.
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Old 2011-11-19, 03:32   Link #3454
Rising Dragon
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Mori-sensei isn't restricting us to meaningful poems or the like, thankfully. Hell, the example she gave us translated into:

"Spring is coming,
I love you,
Shut up."

After all. The biggest problem, besides my lack of poetic creativity, is I don't have the best grasp on the language currently. The best I've come up with thus far is:

ふゆはくる
俳句は愚か
れいぞうこ
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Old 2011-11-19, 10:52   Link #3455
larethian
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wow, Rising_Dragon, your Japanese classes seem fun. I don't care how much I suck in the language or cultural stuff, I'd like to be in your shoes

I'm also not very poetic, but I can't resist 'composing' one (cover your eyes if they bleed)
冬空や
赤いじじいが
はしゃいでる
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Old 2011-11-19, 14:19   Link #3456
Rising Dragon
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I need a translation for that. :k Something about winter and an old man?

Like I said, I don't have the best grasp of the language; our classes are divided into four levels and I'm only at level 2. We don't know all the rules or words yet, which is why Mori-sensei is letting us get away with ridiculous haikus.
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Old 2011-11-19, 14:28   Link #3457
Raiga
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Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I need a translation for that. :k Something about winter and an old man?

Like I said, I don't have the best grasp of the language; our classes are divided into four levels and I'm only at level 2. We don't know all the rules or words yet, which is why Mori-sensei is letting us get away with ridiculous haikus.
Larethian's haiku is about Santa Claus.

If you're in a level 2 class then don't sweat this project so much. Just use what you've learned so far and come up with whatever works. At this point in your studies, there's only so much you can do, and your sensei knows that. It's more about your grasp of the language than your poetic skill. That's why I still get away with giving stupid answers to my homework questions so long as I do so in proper Japanese.
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Old 2011-11-20, 01:22   Link #3458
larethian
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wow, I'm so glad it got through

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I need a translation for that. :k Something about winter and an old man?

Like I said, I don't have the best grasp of the language; our classes are divided into four levels and I'm only at level 2. We don't know all the rules or words yet, which is why Mori-sensei is letting us get away with ridiculous haikus.
冬空(ふゆぞら)や Winter sky ---
赤(あか)いじじいが A red old man
はしゃいでる Is making merry

Kigo: 冬
Kireji: や


maybe some examples will spur your creativity:
http://www.h3.dion.ne.jp/~urutora/haiku.htm
The pink highlighted ones are the haiku. The text below is the interpretation (or intended meaning perhaps).

Looking at these, it seems like mine is not abstract enough and they don't all follow the 'rules' strictly.
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Old 2011-11-22, 16:04   Link #3459
leehowachi
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this is soo sweet! thanks for creating this thread
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Old 2011-11-23, 06:44   Link #3460
Riki
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Location: Atlantis
Any good method on learning kanji? can someone tell me how? searching the dictionary for 2000+ words is crazy...*i do it though* if someone can help i will be much appreciated.
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