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Old 2011-11-23, 07:15   Link #3461
Khu
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Learn it in hiragana first.

Then learn the kanji.

Learning radicals also helps, since you can usually kind of piece together what a combination kanji will mean.

There isn't really any easy way out, as far as I know, than to just commit them to memory.
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Old 2011-11-23, 08:04   Link #3462
Riki
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@khu: i got no probs on hiragana. I mean how do you know to pronounce the kanji. i know some novels help by adding hiragana on top but if there are words without em is hard to find. Whats radical btw?
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Last edited by Riki; 2011-11-23 at 09:58.
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Old 2011-11-23, 12:32   Link #3463
Raiga
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Simple kanji are built up from the eight basic strokes (and the other less basic ones).

Complex kanji are built from simple kanji, including what are called radicals. The short version is that radicals are kanji components or modified simple kanji that provide the "categorical meaning" for a word. For example, words with the radical 金 usually have to do with metal, including 鉄 (iron), 銀 (silver), 鋼 (steel), 鐘 (bell or gong) etc.

This is not always true, as meaning evolves over time and sometimes words or radicals can be used metaphorically. For example, I have no idea why the character 錯 in 錯覚 (delusion) has the 金 radical. It just does.

I really like this site because its kanji look-up will list "graphical children" and "graphical parents" to each kanji, breaking it down into the individual simpler components that make it up. For example, the entry for 朝 lists the graphical parents as 月 and 龺 (which is not a kanji but a component). You can click on 龺 and find that it in turn breaks down into the graphical parents 十 and 日. You can also see that 朝 has graphical children such as 潮 (which, incidentally, has the three-dots-of-water radical).
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Old 2011-11-23, 15:48   Link #3464
Rising Dragon
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When it comes to learning kanji, my teacher has us review them four to six at a time, and has us write them down 30 or 60 times each. While some kanji are a pain to write even fifteen times in a row, the repetition of them does help us learn them. Then, 'bout a week later when we've learned all the kanji in a chapter, which is usually around 15 or so different kanji, she quizzes us on it, both on the translation and the writing of it.
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Old 2011-11-23, 20:21   Link #3465
leehowachi
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Itaadaakiimaassss =D my fav one for eating :P
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Old 2011-11-23, 21:32   Link #3466
Riki
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@Raiga:thanks i think. i dont get what you mean tho. but thanks for taking some of your time to help.

@rising dragon:Im slf-learning jap so i dont have a teacher or anything but~ did you srsly practice 2000+ kanji lol thats crazy
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Old 2011-11-24, 00:43   Link #3467
Alchemist007
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If you want to know Japanese, you have to practice 2000+ kanji :|

If you want to hear the kanji and then never bother to remember it, you don't practice! It's like a law of human learning, if you don't practice things, you suck at them (unless you're a tensai).
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Old 2011-11-24, 01:12   Link #3468
Falcor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
Any good method on learning kanji? can someone tell me how? searching the dictionary for 2000+ words is crazy...*i do it though* if someone can help i will be much appreciated.
Remembering the Kanji by James W. Heisig (3 volumes) is an excellent resource, but it is geared towards self-learners who are just beginning their studies. Remembering the Kana is also a highly recommended prerequisite if you go that route, since it introduces the author's "imaginative memory" technique.

Disclaimer: This series is not recommended for formal study, ie a classroom environment, as noted by the author himself in the foreword, so take that for what it's worth.
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Old 2011-11-24, 01:14   Link #3469
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
Any good method on learning kanji? can someone tell me how? searching the dictionary for 2000+ words is crazy...*i do it though* if someone can help i will be much appreciated.
It's bad enough that there are so many of 'em. Add the fact of multiple pronunciations and readings.
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Old 2011-11-24, 04:45   Link #3470
NoemiChan
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Question. Hiragana is used for Japanese words while Katakana is used for "foreign words" incorporated in the Japanese dictionary (I think). How would I know when to use which? You may say it's simple but if you're a newbie, grouping them as Pure and Borrowed would be very difficult. Following that can that, as a newbie, can I just write both in Hiragana? Will it be bad?
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Old 2011-11-24, 05:17   Link #3471
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
@rising dragon:Im slf-learning jap so i dont have a teacher or anything but~ did you srsly practice 2000+ kanji lol thats crazy
2000+ kanji? No, I'm not that far in the language classes--we only start learning kanji in Japanese 2. I know barely more than a hundred.
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Old 2011-11-24, 06:43   Link #3472
Riki
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@alchemist007: i get what you mean..but i already got chinese smacked into my brains lol it makes it harder to remember the sound of the kanji.

@kyuu:Yea (T.T)

@Falcor:i'll look into it thanks.

@rising dragon: Is 100 even enough to read a jap book ??
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Old 2011-11-24, 12:33   Link #3473
Raiga
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@rising dragon: Is 100 even enough to read a jap book ??
Not even close.
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Old 2011-11-24, 12:51   Link #3474
speedyexpress48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
@rising dragon: Is 100 even enough to read a jap book ??
Umm, multiply that by 30 and there's a closer estimate on the low end
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Old 2011-11-24, 13:24   Link #3475
Alchemist007
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And just because you know the kanji doesn't mean you know all the compounds! (Oh god the compounds)

Actually, sometimes the compounds can help you remember the pronunciation too.
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Old 2011-11-24, 14:41   Link #3476
Zakoo
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The japenese newspaper use theorically around 800 kanji, for all the others they have to write the furigana above.

As for myself I befan around June, I know around 500kanji but I don't have any confidence in my reading, as soon as I leave my official book where I can check the translation I begin to think "hell no it's not that" or sometime I can't even remember the basic Kanji..

A very hard language, yet a pleasure to learn it, Hopefully I have some will to learn by myself.
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Old 2011-12-07, 10:32   Link #3477
RandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
The japenese newspaper use theorically around 800 kanji, for all the others they have to write the furigana above.
Most newspapers use a subset of the Joyo kanji that leaves out some of the more difficult ones (roughly 100? I don't have my Asahi Shimbun style guide nearby to check), but adds others (mostly from the Jinmeiyo kanji list) and also will use characters from neither at their discretion, with furigana.

Ordinary words with uncommon characters may be rewritten completely in kana (挨拶 --> あいさつ [also an example of two Joyo characters intentionally omitted from Newspaper kanji lists]), in mazegaki (only the offending character written in kana: 信憑性 --> 信ぴょう性), or all in kanji with furigana. Reporters are also told to try and avoid using non-Joyo kanji where possible, even replacing more difficult words with easier ones. Historical topics, proper nouns, and keywords for current events are usually written in kanji with furigana. One example: "Enlightenment philosophy" (as in, the Age of) would be written as 啓蒙思想 with けいもう over the first two kanji, but "enlightenment" in the general sense of "becoming aware of new things" would be intentionally rewritten as 啓発 (keihatsu, no furigana).

They also sometimes alter the kanji in words so that they use less difficult characters: the dumbed-down 抽選 in particular appears to have almost completely displaced the proper 抽籤 (ちゅうせん) for the word "lottery" in society at large (it's easy enough to remember, since when you reverse the kanji, you get くじびき).

Last edited by RandomGuy; 2011-12-07 at 10:50.
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Old 2011-12-13, 04:48   Link #3478
Shinji01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genjichan View Post
Question. Hiragana is used for Japanese words while Katakana is used for "foreign words" incorporated in the Japanese dictionary (I think). How would I know when to use which? You may say it's simple but if you're a newbie, grouping them as Pure and Borrowed would be very difficult. Following that can that, as a newbie, can I just write both in Hiragana? Will it be bad?
It wont be "bad" but it looks weird.
Its like seeing someone write with upper and lower case letters jumbled together.
The impression you would give is very juvenile.
But of course, most people will know that you are not japanese and cut you some slack.
In official settings (business, official papers, address) its a big no no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
The japenese newspaper use theorically around 800 kanji, for all the others they have to write the furigana above.
i am Japanese, and I just want you guys to know is that even Japanese people cant read everything in the newspaper.
You can understand the general flow, and you know what they are talking about, but they cant read the kanji properly or explain it to you.

However, if you remember your kanji, you can guess the meaning from just the kanji characters. You may not be able to pronounce it, but you can guess.
So please dont feel like you have to memorize every possible compound.

On technique to remember kanji, this is pure memorization.
We are taught in school to memorize kanji just the way you memorize how to spell words.
usually you just have to keep writing it, use flash cards, and use kanji workbooks.
Good option these days is to purchase Nintendo DS games that prepare you for kanji exams.
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Old 2011-12-13, 12:02   Link #3479
velderia
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Kanji can look intimidating but if you how many words there actually are in the English language, and how many we don't use, that's a bit more shocking actually: http://oxforddictionaries.com/words/...glish-language

As a beginner, I notice the best way is to focus on vocabulary, verbs, etc, and then looking up the kanji as you go. There's actually more kanji I can read than write because I know the word (usually after reading it with furigana for so many times), but if you told me to write it, it would look bad, and I might not be able to write the whole thing. (Typing might be all right though. ) I don't really count how much I know exactly anymore, maybe just the ones I know how to write.
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Old 2011-12-23, 10:55   Link #3480
Miko Miko
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So I wanna get started ahead on learning Japanese before I apply for my class next year. Any good software, books etc you could recommend?
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