AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-12-23, 15:29   Link #3481
velderia
Former NEET.
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The pile of heatwave that is named Texas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko Miko View Post
So I wanna get started ahead on learning Japanese before I apply for my class next year. Any good software, books etc you could recommend?
If it's your very first Japanese class, start with hiragana and katakana (kana): http://amzn.com/0870117092 And/or: http://www.kanachart.com/

I've recently fallen in love with Tagaini Jisho as a dictionary to replace my tiny, pocket Oxford one: http://www.tagaini.net/download It's recommended that you have cleartype Japanese fonts and can type in kana for looking up words.

Some keyboard layout guides:
- XP: http://www.declan-software.com/japanese_ime/#XPinstall
- Vista: http://www.declan-software.com/japanese_ime/#vista
- Mac: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/i...ds/mackey.html

But if you want a printed, kana-based Japanese dictionary, here are some really good ones:
Oxford Mini: http://amzn.com/0199560854
Oxford Basic: http://amzn.com/0198608594
Kodansha: http://amzn.com/4770024800

Oxford, Kodansha, and Tuttle are really amazing publishers that have a lot of material that isn't romaji-based. Romaji is great for people who want to learn to speak more than trying to read the language, but as someone who is used to kana and kanji, I find the romaji oftentimes distracting. Sometimes confusing, especially the "o"'s and the "u"'s, since the romaji isn't always translated the same way. Though Random House and a few other publishers have a dictionary that uses both romaji and kana, if needed: http://amzn.com/0679780017

This is a really nice Google Chrome extension if you're strolling on some Japanese websites, Rikaikun: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...nomkfpcebammhp

This is a huge list of study guides but some things might not work properly or some things might work better than others - Use at own risk: http://www.manythings.org/japanese/links/

For Firefox, Rikaichan: http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/


Hope that helps.
velderia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-28, 03:11   Link #3482
Tenken's Smile
Eternity Wish
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Sky
How do you say "I think it's cool to know (or "to be able to speak") 6 different languages?"
Tenken's Smile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-28, 05:50   Link #3483
Zakoo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
I think if you need a good application to learn hiragana and katakana, there's somebody called Anh Minh in this board that has in his sig a good application that I used to learn.

Pm him to have it, you can found his post in the news story thread I think.
Zakoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-30, 13:29   Link #3484
Zakoo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
Huh I need help for something please.

マルセイユは大きな町で;大学はつもあります

So my book tells me tsumo means "even" like "there's even 3 university" though online translation gives me the word "none".

So in the end it means what? There's a grammatical rules behind it?
Zakoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 08:45   Link #3485
soka
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Argentina
You are missing the cardinal number in that sentence, so for there are even 3 universities it should be:

マルセイユは大きな町で、大学がつもあります

If you want to say there are no universities using も, you have to negate あります

マルセイユには大学が一つもありません
soka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 11:41   Link #3486
Zakoo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
Huh yes indeed, it was three university, first time writing japenense on a computer and the passage to kanji messed up there.

So in the end tsumo means even?
Zakoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 14:26   Link #3487
Raiga
tl;dr
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
Huh yes indeed, it was three university, first time writing japenense on a computer and the passage to kanji messed up there.

So in the end tsumo means even?
You're parsing it wrong.

三つ means "three [things]"

も is the "even" particle. It's often used to indicate that an amount is a lot, or more than expected. In this case it's emphasizing that three universities is a lot for a single town.

Another example of the も particle being used like this is when describing something expensive: この鞄、5万円もしますよ。 = This bag costs a whole 50,000 yen!
__________________
Raiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 14:43   Link #3488
Zakoo
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Gensokyo
Ohh! Okay, thanks a lot I understood, it was indeed in the same lesson as the words for counting ( hitori futari etc) , well I guess I will have to learn those.

Thanks to you two.
Zakoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 19:03   Link #3489
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
Ohh! Okay, thanks a lot I understood, it was indeed in the same lesson as the words for counting ( hitori futari etc) , well I guess I will have to learn those.

Thanks to you two.
And the door to eternal hell has officially been opened.
Good luck
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-31, 19:52   Link #3490
NeoChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Infront of the Anime Shop
Age: 29
A university at our city is offering free Japanese language learning course and I'm kinda planning to join, but it might be diffucult...
NeoChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-02, 18:22   Link #3491
Magin
#1 Akashiya Moka Fan
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where magic is real
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Magin Send a message via MSN to Magin
Well, learning any language other than your native can be difficult, especially if you're not constantly exposed to it (which is my biggest reason why I've been lax on my own studies... about the only good fansubs do is add vocab but that's it... ). It's all up to how much you want to learn. Besides, it's free, so you really haven't got anything to lose
__________________
Gifted...or Cursed?

R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net!

All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!
Magin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-03, 21:42   Link #3492
RandomGuy
ここに居ってんねん
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Osaka
Age: 29
While good instructors and course material count for something, the most important factor is motivation and access to learning materials. If you're motivated, you're going to seek out media in the language, find native speakers to practice with, and just generally keep working until you've reached a level of ability you're happy with. It takes some doing, but as long as the drive is there...
RandomGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 06:09   Link #3493
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 25
The best feeling is knowing how much you've learned. I've got some material I didn't know at all, and going back and knowing 30% more, 50% more material than a few months ago is a reassurance.
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 16:11   Link #3494
xxanimefan4_ever
Sorri++
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
I never drilled myself to learn how to write hirgana... and most definitely not for katakana.
I learned the stroke order of course but anyways I just focused on reading it. and as of now i have no prboelm writing because i've read so much japanese that i know how to write. obviously the same can't be said for kanji but technically you don't need to know how to write it and still be able to read quite a bit. the downside would be like one radical is different b.t. 2 kanji so you can't tell which it is. But anyways I recommend RTK for kanji. After that do kakitori! which is what japnaese people do.

So I just would advise people to not leran how to write hiragna/katana... as far as drilling yourself. do learn stroke order but most importantly, learn how to read it. to be honest there's no need for you to write it right? it's just a waste of time. the time that you took to drill/write direct from memorization could have been used on reading hirgana.... which would make you aid in reading hirgana faster. once you read enough you'll remembe rhow to write it from memory eventually.... like instead of wasting hours of your life writing drill practice.

anyways somebody on chiebukuro asked about learning to write hanguel. and i answered person saying uh.. no . there's no damn point unless you have to write hanguel for some reason like if you were living in korea.
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp...il/q1170947946
I got picked best answer
__________________
<3
xxanimefan4_ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 19:46   Link #3495
Mystique
Honyaku no Hime
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
I never drilled myself to learn how to write hirgana... and most definitely not for katakana.
I learned the stroke order of course but anyways I just focused on reading it. and as of now i have no prboelm writing because i've read so much japanese that i know how to write. obviously the same can't be said for kanji but technically you don't need to know how to write it and still be able to read quite a bit. the downside would be like one radical is different b.t. 2 kanji so you can't tell which it is. But anyways I recommend RTK for kanji. After that do kakitori! which is what japnaese people do.

So I just would advise people to not leran how to write hiragna/katana... as far as drilling yourself. do learn stroke order but most importantly, learn how to read it. to be honest there's no need for you to write it right? it's just a waste of time. the time that you took to drill/write direct from memorization could have been used on reading hirgana.... which would make you aid in reading hirgana faster. once you read enough you'll remembe rhow to write it from memory eventually.... like instead of wasting hours of your life writing drill practice.
Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji

I'd disagree with this and say that especially westerners should try to learn all four skills of a language as best as possible. When it comes to nitpicky radicals in kanji, writing each one and linking that to the meaning of your native language will help a lot when it comes for language exams.

Speaking from personal experience, reading kanji in context is okay but on its own, it gets blurry cause I'm not sure which radical meant what when writing it would have helped by also naturally remembering the stroke count and shape by hand

PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...
__________________

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere. - Van Wilder
"If you ain't laughin', you ain't livin'." - Carlos Mencia
Mystique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-04, 20:03   Link #3496
Alchemist007
自分のチームにいるよ。
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Age: 25
It depends on what your goals are. Just learning to read can be enough for someone who just wants to read some manga or something. Obviously those living in Japan would have to learn their own means of communication in every way.
__________________
Alchemist007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-08, 05:58   Link #3497
Shinji01
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Half Australia, Half Tokyo, Bits and pieces in US
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...
Soooooo true.

I have so many non Japanese friends that speak perfect Japanese, and can totally communicate, but they can't read very well, or write well enough, so they end up having to have a native accompany them to the bank, city office etc.

As a totally bilingual, I never noticed how inconvenient this was until I had to help my friends with this stuff.

Seriously, you won't be able to do anything by yourself since it is very rare for any institution to have a English speaking staff.

So if you plan to live in Japan, you definitely should pay attention to reading and writing, not just verba, communication.
Shinji01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-13, 18:09   Link #3498
xxanimefan4_ever
Sorri++
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji

I'd disagree with this and say that especially westerners should try to learn all four skills of a language as best as possible. When it comes to nitpicky radicals in kanji, writing each one and linking that to the meaning of your native language will help a lot when it comes for language exams.

Speaking from personal experience, reading kanji in context is okay but on its own, it gets blurry cause I'm not sure which radical meant what when writing it would have helped by also naturally remembering the stroke count and shape by hand

PPS:
If you plan to live in Japan, writing goes a long way, especially at legal or financial institutions...
first of all I don't have any plans to live in japan and anyone knows that being able to write in Japanese is important and I have no plans taking any exams. it just seems like you're misunderstanding post or you do understand but for some reason you want to twist my words. I guess my post is more geared toward people that are just learning japanese on their own like people reading this thread.

secondly I'm very proficient in writing in japanese, hirgana, katakana (2000+) and the kanji because I did RTK and I changed my anki deck to kakitori along the way. It just sounds like you're making assumptions like I can't write japanese.

what i'm saying is I never drilled myself to write hiragna/katakana from direct memory ( hard core memorization). I just read a lot of japanese and then I was able to write hiragana/katakana from reading so much. All I did was learn the stroke order but I never drilled myself for hours trying to write hirgana/katakna direct from memory. in the overall picture, I didn't waste my time drilling hirgana/katakana. to me drilling is so stupid. you're better off reading the hirgana/katakana unless there's some reason where you have to write it (if you moved to japan or whatever). because if you read it enough, in the long run you'll be able to read really fast and be able to write it minus the stupid drilling.

I'm just giving a suggestion so people don't waste their time trying to drilling/memorization when they don't have to if they are in my type of situation just learning it and not in some situation where they have to be able to write hirgana/katakna right away. you're so much better off just reading it till you can read it ie song lyrics instead of boring drilling. that's all i'm sayin' jeez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Writing exercises a memory muscle in your brain which is stronger for most people than just looking at something. It is vital, otherwise I doubt the natives would spend the entire 6 years of elementary school having writing drills to memorise the first 1000 kanji
.
and why does that make it the best way?
lol.... lots of Japanese are like omg I forgot to write kanji ever since cellphones/ I can't write kanji w.o. me cellphone lolllllllllz. I gues there are people there are still okay but some people are like that.
Lot of people think the japanese education system like how they teach kanji is flawed. I think it's flawed too. like RTK worked for me.
__________________
<3
xxanimefan4_ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-14, 06:16   Link #3499
Shinji01
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Half Australia, Half Tokyo, Bits and pieces in US
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxanimefan4_ever View Post
first of all I don't have any plans to live in japan and anyone knows that being able to write in Japanese is important and I have no plans taking any exams. it just seems like you're misunderstanding post or you do understand but for some reason you want to twist my words. I guess my post is more geared toward people that are just learning japanese on their own like people reading this thread.

secondly I'm very proficient in writing in japanese, hirgana, katakana (2000+) and the kanji because I did RTK and I changed my anki deck to kakitori along the way. It just sounds like you're making assumptions like I can't write japanese.

what i'm saying is I never drilled myself to write hiragna/katakana from direct memory ( hard core memorization). I just read a lot of japanese and then I was able to write hiragana/katakana from reading so much. All I did was learn the stroke order but I never drilled myself for hours trying to write hirgana/katakna direct from memory. in the overall picture, I didn't waste my time drilling hirgana/katakana. to me drilling is so stupid. you're better off reading the hirgana/katakana unless there's some reason where you have to write it (if you moved to japan or whatever). because if you read it enough, in the long run you'll be able to read really fast and be able to write it minus the stupid drilling.

I'm just giving a suggestion so people don't waste their time trying to drilling/memorization when they don't have to if they are in my type of situation just learning it and not in some situation where they have to be able to write hirgana/katakna right away. you're so much better off just reading it till you can read it ie song lyrics instead of boring drilling. that's all i'm sayin' jeez.


and why does that make it the best way?
lol.... lots of Japanese are like omg I forgot to write kanji ever since cellphones/ I can't write kanji w.o. me cellphone lolllllllllz. I gues there are people there are still okay but some people are like that.
Lot of people think the japanese education system like how they teach kanji is flawed. I think it's flawed too. like RTK worked for me.
Kakitori is memorization, so I think you two actually share the same point of view.

I do agree though that people should concentrate on the areas that they need most instead of trying to do all facets of the language at the same time.

I grew up being able to speak japanese, and read it, but not write it until I moved back to Japan and enrolled in the local schools.

I reached my kanji peak during school, but after I graduated and started using more PC than pen and paper, I forgot my kanji again.

But i think this is the same as any other subject you study at school.
You won't remember how to solve highschool level maths when you are 35, but what matters is that you studied it once, so you can draw upon it later if necessary.
Shinji01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-17, 20:15   Link #3500
Yu Ominae
ARCAM Spriggan agent
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada/Quezon City, Philippines
Send a message via Yahoo to Yu Ominae
Having plans to study in Japan for the Japanese language program.

Right now I plan to look at Kansai Gaidai, Waseda, Keio, Ritsumeikan and perhaps ICU and Sophia since my Japanese political science teacher said that they have "excellent" Japanese language programs. I'll go and look at them carefully when I can...
__________________

Even if we were at odds with each other, I still thank you for training me, Instructor Bowman - Yu Ominae, reflecting on Bowman's death after killing him in Phantom Island
Yu Ominae is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hiragana

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.