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Old 2007-06-25, 14:46   Link #881
FatPianoBoy
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syaoran View Post
Well... I don't feel comfortable speaking in Japanese at all
I always think people will laugh at me for my mistakes and it frustrates me that it isn't as fluid as the other languages I learned over the years.
Of course people will laugh at your mistakes - especially if they're funny. The trick is being able to step outside yourself and laugh with them.

I once remarked that a cell phone was driving down the street (confused 警察 (けいさつ) with 携帯 (けいたい)). Everyone in the car had a good laugh over it, and I never did it again. Life goes on even if you screw up.
Plus, if they're native Japanese who are now living in America, they had to learn English and likely made their share of weird mistakes themselves, so they'll understand.

A language mistake I read about on a blog I have since lost the link to:

Spoiler for length:

So... yeah. Whatever language mistake you might make, someone out there has probably done better (or worse, depending), so don't sweat it - just learn and move on.
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Old 2007-06-25, 16:52   Link #882
Syaoran
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Well... I'll have to try again next year, 'cause now it's over and I don't know if I've the resources left because of this (time & money).
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Old 2007-06-25, 16:56   Link #883
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Of course people will laugh at your mistakes - especially if they're funny.
Which is why I think all my sensei really enjoy teaching Japanese. The last mistake I made is something I put in my sig a while ago - I mixed up "sara" (dish) and "saru"(monkey). On my final exam, I put down that "the child played like a dish" instead of playing like a monkey.

A classmate of mine had said he "wants to sleep with 100-year old women" instead of what he meant, which was that he "wants to sleep with 100 women"... that mistake was made in my first semester.

I don't mind my mistakes so much because it *does* make people laugh, and I think it helps break barriers down between you and whoever's laughing. I don't think I would've gotten to know a lot of my classmates if none of us had made any mistakes - we've all laughed at each other.

Edit: Thanks to WanderingKnight and Mueti... I think I get the difference now.
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Old 2007-06-28, 05:43   Link #884
krysinello
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I am thinking of either buying Kanji flash cards, or a program which does a similar thing. Would that help me?
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Old 2007-06-28, 09:20   Link #885
Mueti
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I use Kanji Flashcards as well, and I find them very useful. I don't know how good the ones you can buy are since I write mine myself. It provides a bit of writing practice and I can layout them, decide on what to put where and how. It takes quite a bit of time of course but in my opinion it's well worth it.
I don't really like the programs simulating the cards but that's just personal preference.
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Old 2007-06-28, 09:40   Link #886
winry039
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Wow thanks so much your very helpful unlike me im not that very good in learning the language
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Old 2007-06-28, 09:56   Link #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krysinello View Post
I am thinking of either buying Kanji flash cards, or a program which does a similar thing. Would that help me?
Flash cards can be useful when you can't do anything else, but honestly, the BEST way to learn kanji is to write it.

Writing it will not only help you recognize it with greater ease, but will ensure that you don't have the experience of "I could read it, but I couldn't write it."
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Old 2007-06-28, 09:59   Link #888
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Errr, that's exactly my problem now, I use the PC to write things so I'm not good at writing kanji, at all T_T.
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Old 2007-06-28, 10:04   Link #889
Mueti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuusai View Post
Writing it will not only help you recognize it with greater ease, but will ensure that you don't have the experience of "I could read it, but I couldn't write it."
I don't think that experience can be avoided, no matter how many Kanji you know or how much you write. There'll always be something you can read but wouldn't be able to write.
But of course you're right, writing is the best way to learn kanji. Whenever I go through my cards I do it with pen and paper at hand and write all kanji down a few times.
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Old 2007-06-28, 11:10   Link #890
Risaa
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Kyuusai sounds like he knows a lot about Japanese ne. Bombard him with questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueti View Post
I don't think that experience can be avoided, no matter how many Kanji you know or how much you write. There'll always be something you can read but wouldn't be able to write.
AGREED! I *hate* that! D:

As for myself, I have both kanji flashcards and I practice writing them as well. My flashcards were kind of expensive, but very nice... I still recommend doing as Mueti did and write your own, though. It'll save money and give you practice writing them.

(When you first start out writing kanji, don't worry. They're GOING to look weird; it can't be helped. With practice you'll be able to fit them into a nice even square area.)

No matter what you do, practice writing them! I find the most useful (and non-boring ) way for me is to find a paragraph in my grammar book and copying it straight from the book. Learn each kanji as you write it, and read the paragraph *out loud*... You have to be able to pronounce each character as well as understand it (for instance, I can read a lot of kanji.... I know a lot of meanings, but I can't pronounce them!). Then if you get tired, quit and write the paragraph again the next day. Then the next day, then the next day. I find this to be one of the most effective ways of learning kanji and grammar at the same time (of course, it's even more effective if you write the paragraph a few times in one day before quitting).
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Old 2007-06-28, 12:15   Link #891
Kyuusai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueti View Post
I don't think that experience can be avoided, no matter how many Kanji you know or how much you write. There'll always be something you can read but wouldn't be able to write.
Well, better to say "can help to ensure" rather than "will ensure". I should have figured some one would take me literally on the internet.

I think this is another good opportunity to mention James Hesig's Remembering the Kanji.

Even if his style of kanji study isn't suited for you, reading his book can give some insight on how to absorb and learn the information in your own way. I'm personally not following his book, but I'm using what I've learned from it to structure a unique kanji study course that I think will be optimal for learning kanji fast and with good recall. (I'll let every one know how that goes once I've gotten somewhere with that, and if it went well, will explain more.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risaa View Post
Kyuusai sounds like he knows a lot about Japanese ne. Bombard him with questions!
Dangit, starey-face-girl, I never claimed to be a fluent speaker!
Heck, I never claimed to be a competent one. I can't be held responsible for you misjudging me.

Last edited by Kyuusai; 2007-06-28 at 12:40.
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Old 2007-06-28, 13:39   Link #892
FatPianoBoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuusai View Post
I think this is another good opportunity to mention James Hesig's Remembering the Kanji.
The thing about Heisig is that, while you end up remembering the kanji, a lot of the stuff he teaches you isn't completely accurate. Also, he completely skips pronunciation.
I've been using a similar method (I called it "spelling kanji) since before I knew who he was, so I never bit onto his stuff. The method is one of the most effective and much less laborious than writing it repeatedly (though you should write it a few times anyway), and, when using the proper definitions of the radicals, the most informative and enlightening that I've found.
I used flashcards to memorize jouyou 1, and that sucked. I recommend flashcards be used for reinforcing what you've learned rather than your primary basis for study.

Different things work for different people, though, so this is just what's worked for me.
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Old 2007-06-28, 14:01   Link #893
Kyuusai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
The thing about Heisig is that, while you end up remembering the kanji, a lot of the stuff he teaches you isn't completely accurate. Also, he completely skips pronunciation.
Well, he doesn't skip pronunciation, but saves it for later volumes. I can see his logic, although it personally doesn't work for me for a long-term study plan.

I recommend it primarily to give perspective on the learning process.

You're right about the mistakes being present. They are in any work, but the nature of these makes them particularly awkward. Any one actually using his book as a study plan should seek out errata.
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Old 2007-06-28, 14:17   Link #894
Vexx
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Heisig is trying to maximize his sales by offering something that can be used by both chinese and japanese studiers. I have the books but mostly use them for an occasional reference.

Stupidly, I've actually done better with a book that teaches the kanji in the order that japanese schools teach them to elementary kids.
Given the target audience for some of the manga I read, the kanji they use is going to have a high match rate to what they teach at that level.

"A Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters" by Henshall
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Old 2007-06-28, 17:32   Link #895
Mas
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Hi Guys

Hi guys. My name is Mas. I thought I could make a little contribution here.

I've been in this forum since 2004. It's been a while since I posted my last reply. I hope some of you guys know me (although it must be a rare case) Anyway, questions are welcome.

I always have thought that we don't have many native Japanese people in this forum...so I try to hop in here a bit frequently.

I've been teaching Japanese in England for last 5 years, since high school time and should be able to help you guys a bit. I also found out that there are so many people in the world who think about learning Japanese, but don't because they can't find any Japanese schools around. It's a shame that Japanese teachers are not there in many places.

Last edited by Mas; 2007-06-28 at 17:55.
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Old 2007-06-29, 11:18   Link #896
denkikoiji
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Join Date: May 2007
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yeah, Japaneses is a very likable language to learn right now i know how to speak Japaneses kinda but i cant read it at all i mean the symbols if anyone could i would love to join a online class to learn Japaneses and get to be fluent in it ^_^ right now i have watched 200+ series in raw/subbed trying to learn from that it has worked sum what but i still would love to get better at it ^_^ so when ever just pm me and well talk ok ^-^ oh and about names how can we find out how to say hour names in Japaneses and all that ^-^ right now the only language in fluent in is english cues that my main language and then my second would have to be Japanese but im stumbling in that lol so i hope ill be able to learn then fast i know im a fast learner ^-^
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Old 2007-06-29, 14:11   Link #897
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denkikoiji View Post
right now the only language in fluent in is english cues that my main language
I believe you, but it's still important to learn punctuation too. The easier it is for us to understand you, the more willing we will be to help you (I'm not really the best person to ask for help from here though). No, that's not a personal comment; I'm just trying to help.

Unfortunately, a lot of it has to do with you studying by yourself... we won't be of much help trying to teach you how to pronounce all of the kana, for instance - that's more something that you'd learn faster by looking online for a chart and reading a guide on how to pronounce the kana. Many sites even have little sound icons you can click and it'll spurt out a voice pronouncing it for you.

But if you have specific questions about Japanese (*not* "how do you pronounce all the kana", but something like "what's the difference between 'kaeru' and 'iku'"), this would be a good thread to post your question in.
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Old 2007-07-01, 02:45   Link #898
Risaa
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I found something interesting, "Toypography":
http://www.kokuyo.co.jp/hiramekitoys/toypography/

It's a children's toy - you rearrange the shapes that make up English words and turn them into kanji. I'm not sure if the aim is to learn English words or kanji, but it's neat anyways... though I'm also unsure if children would actually learn anything from it (and get a load of the price! Yeesh!).

And heck, I'm not even positive this goes in this thread, but Kyuusai said it does, so it's his fault if I'm wrong.
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Old 2007-07-01, 05:16   Link #899
funk
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Age: 27
awesome thread. I have one suggestion thou, the original poster should go back to the first post and add the pronunciations of the romanji. When i first started learning it was really annoying to try and say a word over and over again just to find out i was saying it wrong.

I've yet to take Japanese very far, but i wanted to this summer... and i will atleast start by reading through all the pages of this thread xD... I wonder how much i can get from 40 some odd pages o.o.
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Old 2007-07-01, 14:36   Link #900
emmapig505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiko_san View Post
i was trying to post this earlier but my account was eraised!so here:Kore wa pen desu." ("This is a pen.")
"Kore wa raito seibaa desu." ("This is a light saber.")
"Kuruma desu." ("It's a car.")
"Watashi wa Haruna desu." ("I am Haruna.")
"Haruna desu." ("I'm Haruna.")
"Watashi wa neko desu." ("I am a cat.")
"Watashi wa Shinigami desu." ("I am the God of Death.")
"Watashi wa baka desu." ("I am an idiot.")
also:Kore wa juu desu." ("This is a gun")
"Kore wa juu desu ka?" ("Is this a gun?")

Kore wa uchuusen desu ka?" ("Is this a spaceship?")
"Sore wa boku no tamashi desu ka?" ("Is that my soul?")
"Anata wa Oni desu ka?" ("Are you an Ogre?")
"Tiima wa ningen desu ka?" ("Is Tima human?")
Kore wa masutaado desu ka?" ("Is this mustard?"

. Masutaado desu." ("Yes. It's mustard.")

: "Sore wa kechappu desu ka?" ("Is that ketchup?")
: "Iie, kore wa chi desu. Atashi no chi desu." ("No, this is blood. My blood.")

: "Daijoubu?!" ("Are you OK?!"): "Un! Daijoubu!" ("Yep! I'm fine!")
Daijoubu desu ka?" ("Are you allright?")

"Watashi wa baka desu ka?" ("Am I stupid?")
"Anata wa baka desu ka?" ("Are you stupid?")
"Anta, baka?" ("You stupid?")
"Omae wa Shinigami desu ka?" ("Are you the God of Death?")
"Anata wa atashi no tomodachi desu ka?" ("Are you my friend?")
"Airi wa boku no tomodachi desu ka?" ("Are you my friend, Airi?")
"Airi wa boku no tomodachi desu ka?" ("Is Airi my friend?") remenber be verry kind
and if you want more just post it!

If "Un! Daijoubu!" is "Yes! I'm ok!," then how do you say you are not ok?
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