AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-11-09, 06:59   Link #1101
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
もも子さんの車は止まて車をぶつけました。
Try that.

Quote:
古いコンピュータがこわれたので、新しいコンピュータを買わなくてはいけません。
”My old computer broke, and so I had to buy a new one [computer].", is that sentence okay?
Eh... it sounds a little funny to me, but it looks grammatically sound.
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-09, 08:13   Link #1102
Nagato
幻想郷
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 幻想郷
^^ ももこさんの車は止まっている車にぶつかったばかりです。
   ももこさんの車は止まっている車にぶつかったところです。 ← usually used when you want to emphasize the occurrence time.
__________________
Nagato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-09, 11:48   Link #1103
htsuji
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJiffy View Post
もも子さんの車は車が止まてぶつけたとことです。
Here I'm attempting to say "Ms. Momoko's car just struck a parked/stopped car.", is it correct grammatically?

古いコンピュータがこわれたので、新しいコンピュータを買わなくてはいけません。
”My old computer broke, and so I had to buy a new one [computer].", is that sentence okay?
The second phrase is all right.

As for the first one,
Japanese adjectives and phrases that act like adjectives are placed before the associated noun. Thus, 車が止まて should be 止まっている車 or 止まっていた車.
Even if the phrase has more words, you have to place it before the noun.

For example:
"a beautiful car made by a company that has a long history"
= "長い歴史をもつ会社に 作られた 美しい 車"
While the English grammar places the phrase "made ... history" after the noun, "car", Japanese puts its equivalent before the noun, "車".

A natural expression is:
ももこさんの車は、とまっていた車に ぶつかったところです。

ももこさんの車 Ms Momoko's car
止まっていた車に to/on/at a car that was/had been parked (there)
ぶつかったところです struck just now

By the way, while both verb ぶつける and verb ぶつかる can mean "strike", the former means the action is done on purpose and the subject (actor) is usually a person.

ももこさん can do "ぶつける" something against something else if she wants, but ももこさんの車 cannot because it doesn't have its own will.
htsuji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-12, 01:22   Link #1104
askia47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: East Coast
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJiffy View Post
もも子さんの車は車が止まてぶつけたとことです。
Here I'm attempting to say "Ms. Momoko's car just struck a parked/stopped car.", is it correct grammatically?

古いコンピュータがこわれたので、新しいコンピュータを買わなくてはいけません。
”My old computer broke, and so I had to buy a new one [computer].", is that sentence okay?
Why am i thinking the second sentence makes no sense. Isn't 買わなくてはいけません。negative? im reading it as : "Since my old computer broke, i couldnt buy an new one".
maybe im confusing something
askia47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-12, 08:29   Link #1105
richvh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
No, it means "have to buy"; the "must"/"have to" construction in Japanese is really long, consisting of a double negative. There are actually several similar constructions, with ~なくてはいけない being just one of them. See this article.
__________________
Kenichi manga translator
ゆきの物語
richvh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-12, 10:25   Link #1106
WanderingKnight
Gregory House
*IT Support
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Age: 25
Send a message via MSN to WanderingKnight
Quote:
古いコンピュータがこわれたので、新しいコンピュータを買わなくてはいけません。
”My old computer broke, and so I had to buy a new one [computer]."
Hmm, I would say "I have to buy a new one". The final verb is in present tense.
__________________


Place them in a box until a quieter time | Lights down, you up and die.
WanderingKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-07, 18:26   Link #1107
SSJiffy
AWWWSOME
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cali
How would you ask someone if it's okay if you call them by their first name rather than their last name?
__________________
:> Suddenly a birdy appears! What do you do?
SSJiffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-07, 18:36   Link #1108
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSJiffy View Post
How would you ask someone if it's okay if you call them by their first name rather than their last name?
Get to know them and then just blurt it out one day. If they don't slap you or look at you funny, you're good to go.
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-07, 19:57   Link #1109
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
*Usually* they'll invite you to do so..... Americans can get way with just trying it and seeing (along with the honorifics) because Japanese just expect them to be "so forward" and gregarious.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-08, 08:08   Link #1110
FatPianoBoy
Dansa med oss
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
*Usually* they'll invite you to do so..... Americans can get way with just trying it and seeing (along with the honorifics) because Japanese just expect them to be "so forward" and gregarious.
I've noticed this. I've actually had one person tell me to simply call her by her first name. So I used -chan, and she told me to drop it. I've known her for a while, but we're not that close.
Something a bit more typical is Japanese people extending their hand expecting me to shake it, even after I've already bowed
__________________
FatPianoBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-13, 14:46   Link #1111
Yaoi_Daisuki
少年愛
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 25
がつこう へ -> this is read as gakkooe (school) right? i just took up japanese classes, in my textbook they wrote this as gakkooe but isnt this gatsukouhe? wow holy shlt im confuse, i assume we dont pronouce the su?
__________________
Yaoi_Daisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-13, 15:00   Link #1112
Kyuusai
9wiki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: State of Denial
Send a message via AIM to Kyuusai Send a message via MSN to Kyuusai Send a message via Yahoo to Kyuusai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaoi_Daisuki View Post
がつこう へ -> this is read as gakkooe (school) right? i just took up japanese classes, in my textbook they wrote this as gakkooe but isnt this gatsukouhe? wow holy shlt im confuse, i assume we dont pronouce the su?
Ah, that little っ is a tricky beast!

The っ is different than the つ in that the っ indicates what we write as a double consonant in roman letters. Yes, the only difference in their appearance is the size, and sometimes the size is close enough to be confusing.
はつこう -> ha tsu ko u
はっこい -> ha kko i

It looks like you're also wondering about the う being romanized as a second 'o'. Due to the pronunciation, it's romanized with a second 'o', to represent an extended vowel. Personally, I strongly object to this confusing romanization, and I think it's farther from the actual pronunciation than a straight romanization of each individual character. In more "official" romanization, you'll generally see this as a line above a single letter (such as "ō"), but I still personally find that ugly and unnecessary. Despite my opinion, that is the standard.
__________________

I await patiently
the gift promised to me.

Last edited by Kyuusai; 2007-12-13 at 15:10.
Kyuusai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-13, 15:00   Link #1113
richvh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
The つ should be っ - がっこう, gakkou. (The small tsu is represented in romaji by doubling the following consonant.)

Your textbook is evidently using classical Hepburn romaji, which renders all long O sounds as oo or o with a macron over it; you'll find most people these days are going to use wapuro romaji, which will render long Os the way they need to be written to get the correct kana (and hence, the right kanji conversions), which overwhelming are OU combinations.
__________________
Kenichi manga translator
ゆきの物語
richvh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 04:00   Link #1114
tripperazn
Toyosaki Aki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaoi_Daisuki View Post
がつこう へ -> this is read as gakkooe (school) right? i just took up japanese classes, in my textbook they wrote this as gakkooe but isnt this gatsukouhe? wow holy shlt im confuse, i assume we dont pronouce the su?
Despite my objections to your name, I'll help out as well. Haha j/k j/k

Kyuusai and richvh have explained the small "tsu", but the "he" -> "e" pronunciation is still unexplained.

Anyway, the character へ is used as a "particle". Other examples of particles would be が/ は etc. The sentences denoting the subject going somewhere uses the structure (destination) へ (verb). The example you gave is probably the start of 学校へ行くます。(Gakkou e ikimasu)

Another example: (excuse my lack of kana/kanji, too lazy)

America kara nihon e kimasu. (I returned to Japan from America)

Note that it still follows the pattern given above.
__________________
tripperazn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 04:14   Link #1115
Yaoi_Daisuki
少年愛
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 25
ah~~ thanks for the help, i get a clearer picture of it now.

Oh yeah another question is regarding the su. gozaimasu, sodesu and stuff, do we actually have to pronounce the su? If im not wrong its something to do with their dialect right? Like some do pronounce out but some dont, or the right way is not to pronounce it out at all?
__________________
Yaoi_Daisuki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 08:21   Link #1116
allyphatic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
I'm intending to expose myself to japanese writing by reading some raw mangas. Does anyone have recommendations for manga with

- good mix of kana and kanji
- good range of vocab
- preferably english-scanlated, for comparison
- well-formed sentences

Would you even recommend using manga? Thanks in advance.
allyphatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 08:32   Link #1117
richvh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Manga aren't generally recommended for beginners, because (since they are mostly dialogue), they tend to contain a lot of slang, dialectal speech, and unusual grammar patterns.
__________________
Kenichi manga translator
ゆきの物語
richvh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 08:45   Link #1118
allyphatic
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Oh, then could you recommend something (online) for a beginner to read? The grammar guides I've tried give short sentences randomly plucked from the sky, but kanji sites don't give a good sentence context.
allyphatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 09:37   Link #1119
Kyuusai
9wiki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: State of Denial
Send a message via AIM to Kyuusai Send a message via MSN to Kyuusai Send a message via Yahoo to Kyuusai
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaoi_Daisuki View Post
ah~~ thanks for the help, i get a clearer picture of it now.

Oh yeah another question is regarding the su. gozaimasu, sodesu and stuff, do we actually have to pronounce the su? If im not wrong its something to do with their dialect right? Like some do pronounce out but some dont, or the right way is not to pronounce it out at all?
The 'su' often has an abbreviated pronunciation, especially at the end of words, frequently even to the point of the vowel being unvoiced completely (or at least close enough to sound that way to inexperienced ears).

If you're listening to anything with native Japanese language, listen carefully any time it sounds like some one ends a word with an 's' sound, and it will almost certainly be a 'su' syllable. If you listen carefully enough, though, you might notice in many cases that the 'u' was there, just "clipped".

The exact pronunciation can very by dialect, but it can also vary vastly by personal choice of voicing. So long as you don't emphasize it at the end of a word, you'll be OK. Just try to imitate what you're hearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allyphatic View Post
Oh, then could you recommend something (online) for a beginner to read? The grammar guides I've tried give short sentences randomly plucked from the sky, but kanji sites don't give a good sentence context.
My best recommendation would be to seek out old issues of Mangajin. It's out of print, but there have been books that collect many of its features. Others have turned to scanned copies distributed online, but just because it's out of print doesn't mean it's public domain.
__________________

I await patiently
the gift promised to me.
Kyuusai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-12-14, 09:55   Link #1120
richvh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Oh, then could you recommend something (online) for a beginner to read? The grammar guides I've tried give short sentences randomly plucked from the sky, but kanji sites don't give a good sentence context.
You might try children's newspaper sections, such as Yomiuri's or Mainichi's
If you're up to the challenge, you might try the novel I'm writing (link in sig), though I think it's more suited to intermediate readers. The first few chapters aren't too hard.
__________________
Kenichi manga translator
ゆきの物語
richvh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hiragana

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.