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Old 2007-12-20, 10:40   Link #1161
Slice of Life
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There is also a webbased trainer for Kana and other scripts a friend of mine wrote. Just please spare him comments like "there's no 'hu', there's only a 'fu'" and related n00bery (especially since there is a button to change the romanization scheme ).
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Old 2007-12-20, 10:53   Link #1162
Mueti
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Having the option to type the characters instead of having to select them from that chart would make it a whole lot more handy.
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Old 2007-12-20, 11:10   Link #1163
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Would be a lot more handy indeed.
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Old 2007-12-20, 11:57   Link #1164
Slice of Life
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Comment field -> proposal.
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Old 2007-12-21, 00:58   Link #1165
onehp
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私はこれをどう話すか:

1) I do not want to eat (or some other verbs) this -?> 私はこれを食べるがほしくない
-is the japanese phrase different from this japanese phrase: I do not eat this -> 私はこれを食べません

2) How can you do this without that? -?> あなたはどうこれをしますでそれをありませんか

3) Please speak in Japanese (or some other language) -?> 日本語でいってください

I am confused with "ni" and "de" particles. To me "ni" is positioning and movement to that position be it abstract or material and "de" is like "is done via", can be used as a positioning, and current state. If both "de" and "ni" are used as a positioning, which one should I use?

Also, how often is the "e" particle used?

Last edited by onehp; 2007-12-21 at 01:11.
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Old 2007-12-21, 03:51   Link #1166
Risaa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehp View Post
1) I do not want to eat (or some other verbs) this -?> 私はこれを食べるがほしくない
Because you're using a verb you would use "-tai" instead of "hoshii", so the correct way to write that line would be "watashi wa kore o tabetaku nai". "Tabetai" = want to eat, and the negative form is "tabetakunai".

...And I started explaining "de" and "ni" but then got all confused trying to say it in English. XD;
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Old 2007-12-21, 07:00   Link #1167
richvh
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Risaa covered #1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onehp View Post
私はこれをどう話すか:
Don't use か with plain form; it comes off as very demanding, or as a rhetorical question. Also, in this case, 言う should have been used rather than 話す.

Quote:
2) How can you do this without that? -?> あなたはどうこれをしますでそれをありませんか
それがなかったら、どうやってこれができますか。

Quote:
3) Please speak in Japanese (or some other language) -?> 日本語でいってください
日本語で話してください。

Quote:
I am confused with "ni" and "de" particles. To me "ni" is positioning and movement to that position be it abstract or material and "de" is like "is done via", can be used as a positioning, and current state. If both "de" and "ni" are used as a positioning, which one should I use?
In positioning, に is much more specific than で. Some verbs just take に for positioning: the verbs of existence, いる, ある; habitation 住む; sitting 座る all take に. Other activities usually take で.

Quote:
Also, how often is the "e" particle used?
へ has a much more restricted usage than any other basic particle: it can only be used to indicate a destination or a direction.
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Old 2007-12-21, 08:33   Link #1168
tripperazn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richvh View Post
Don't use か with plain form; it comes off as very demanding, or as a rhetorical question. Also, in this case, 言う should have been used rather than 話す.
You have 話す and 言う confused. How I understand it is that 話す refers to the general act of talking or conversing with someone. 友達と話しました。 I talked with my my friends. It doesn't indicate exactly what we said, but gives you the information that talking did occur.

On the other hand, 言う is more specific and is used for quoting exact lines. ”カラオケへ行こう?” を 言っていました。 (not sure on the conjugation for this one, I completely suck at writing, but you get the idea) I asked, "Do you guys want to go karaoke?"


The "へ" particle:

I'm just gonna explain it how I did before. The basic structure is "Destination" へ "Verb".

学校 へ 行きます。
アメリカ から 日本 へ 来ます。
うち へ 帰ります。
etc, etc...
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Old 2007-12-21, 10:34   Link #1169
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He said in this case. I think onehp want to say "how to say this correctly?". Therefore in this case, as richvh said, 言う is more appropriate. I get an impression that when you say 話す you give more explanation about what you want to tell, while 言う you just simply state or say something. Of course 言う and 話す are also used other ways.

as for "he" particle I often use "ni" instead. It's said that it depends on trend and seems like young people often use "ni" while old people use "he" more.
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Old 2007-12-21, 11:48   Link #1170
richvh
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言う is (roughly) equivalent to "say," and 話す is (roughly) equivalent to "speak."

これをどう言いますか - How do (I) say this?
これは日本語で何と言いますか - What is this called in Japanese?

日本語で話してください - Please speak in Japanese.
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Old 2007-12-21, 18:24   Link #1171
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagato
as for "he" particle I often use "ni" instead. It's said that it depends on trend and seems like young people often use "ni" while old people use "he" more.
As I understand it, "e" indicates a direction, "ni" indicates a location (when used in that way).

"Toshokan he iku" means headed in the direction of the library, "toshokan ni iku" means headed to the library.

Probably not a great distinction, but there you have it.

And re: hanasu/iu, "nihongo de itte kudasai" would mean, to me, "Please say that (again) in Japanese" and said, perhaps, by a teacher who wants you to practice or a Japanese citizen who isn't familiar with your native language.

Though that's a personal interpretation, and likely way off.
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Old 2007-12-21, 19:10   Link #1172
Vexx
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And even more ambiguously, many modern japanese don't really distinguish between "ni" and "e" when using it... its just a flair difference for them (with the possibly unintended difference in emphasis). Raikage's example is spot on as to why not to get bound up in knots over it.

English has dozens of ways to say the same functional thing.. .just be glad japanese is much more limited (confined? clear?) in some respects. ... though I suspect Evil Japanese Dark Age Accountants are responsible for their "counter words from hell"
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Old 2007-12-21, 22:40   Link #1173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I suspect Evil Japanese Dark Age Accountants are responsible for their "counter words from hell"
Along those lines, does anyone know what other languages use so many different counter words? Korean, and what else?

There's few things more frustrating than going to the store and wanting to request a specific number of a certain thing but being unable to because you've forgotten the counter word. In those cases I usually use a general counter word even when inappropriate, or just kind of die inside while holding up my fingers.

Sometimes I'll get excited and say something completely wrong, like when I went to Misudo and wanted two donuts, I said "futari!!!" "fu..futari?" (ack!) "'futatsu' tte! Itta!... i mashita!" (Combined with a look of, "nyoro~n, just give me my donuts so I can run away and die now.")
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Old 2007-12-23, 13:30   Link #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage View Post
As I understand it, "e" indicates a direction, "ni" indicates a location (when used in that way).

"Toshokan he iku" means headed in the direction of the library, "toshokan ni iku" means headed to the library.

Probably not a great distinction, but there you have it.
「京へ筑紫に坂東さ」 ... an old Japanese saying (and I'm too lazy to explain what it is)
They are dialects, sort of, if I say, and I think there's not much difference between those words.

But, come to think of it, raikage's commentary looks somewhat feasible as well.
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Old 2007-12-23, 22:25   Link #1175
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What is the ~na in "kon~", "son~", and "an~" for? What does the whole meaning means?
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Old 2007-12-23, 23:46   Link #1176
richvh
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Konna, sonna, anna, donna: this/that/what kind of...

They're basically contractions of kono/sono/ano/dono you na.
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Old 2007-12-24, 11:23   Link #1177
zetsumei
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what's the different between 強く/強い 濃い/濃く etc. 'ku' equal 'ly' ending? strongly/strong?
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Old 2007-12-24, 11:43   Link #1178
richvh
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Basically, yes. 強く modifies a verb or adjective (adverbial usage); 強い modifies a noun, or is a predicate. This is the general rule for all い adjectives. Also, な adjectives conjugate differently: きれいに (adverbial usage), きれいな (directly modifying the following noun), きれいだ (predicate).

Note that there are cases were 強く will not be translated to "strongly", because of the differences between English and Japanese grammar. E.g., 強くない "not strong", 強くなる "become strong."
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Old 2007-12-24, 15:33   Link #1179
SSJiffy
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I have an art book here that has a sentence that I need help translating.
どんなあなたにオススメします!
It's in the context of 'this isn't only for reading! You can make figures, get cosplay designs, etc...'. I've gotten '(for) What kind of you..' and have difficulty figuring out 'オススメ', if I repeat it enough it begins to sound like 'osmosis' and 'awesome'. Pfft.
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Old 2007-12-24, 17:17   Link #1180
richvh
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お奨め 【おすすめ】 (n) recommendation, recommendable

It's in katakana for emphasis, not because it's a loan-word.

Are you sure there isn't something else between どんな and あなた?
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