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Old 2008-06-10, 11:39   Link #1541
vst
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Looking for help with testing a new program

I'm currently developing an educational software package designed for learners of Japanese. This software helps learners study vocabulary and kanji in various ways.

Since development is nearly complete I'm looking for some people who would be willing to help test and evaluate the software. I'm only testing one main feature so it shouldn't take too much of your time (around 20-30 minutes). And it doesn't matter if you are a beginner or an expert in Japanese, as long as you know how to input Japanese into your computer you should be able to test the software.

If anyone is interested please message me through this forum.

Thanks
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Old 2008-06-10, 21:45   Link #1542
radioIzzy
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Just wondering, is it possible to take a language course on your first year of University?

I've always wanted to take Japanese or korean, but never really got the oppurtunity in my school since the only languages I can learn are either french, spanish, or german...
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Old 2008-06-10, 21:51   Link #1543
Nervous Venus
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It's possible if your University has the language. I took a foreign language in my first semester of uni also.
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Old 2008-06-10, 23:15   Link #1544
keis
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Most Universities should offer language courses, unless its a specialty University like an Arts College (Visual Arts not the Arts in general) or the such. If they do, you should be able to pick it up a class (or 2) as an elective if the course you are undergoing offers any electives. Or if you really want, you can take up the additional class, but this can burden your workload. (Just giving a perspective from my Uni)
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Old 2008-06-10, 23:52   Link #1545
Izayoi
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Any other language corresponds with Japanese other than Chinese?
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Old 2008-06-11, 00:40   Link #1546
LiberLibri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Any other language corresponds with Japanese other than Chinese?
What do you mean by "corresponds"?

Syntactically Japanese is one of the agglutinative languages, and Chinese(s) is among the isolated languages. Although Japanese language has borrowed innumerable words from Chinese (and in modern ages vice versa), the both have mutually distinct structures. Possibly Turkish, Hungarian or any other Altaic languages might be nearer to Japanese in that point.

As for kanji-related letters, there are some languages using such ones; Vietnam's Chữ Nôm and Koreans' Hanja are well known. (so-called CJKV: China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam logosphere)
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Old 2008-06-11, 00:51   Link #1547
Kang Seung Jae
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Any other language corresponds with Japanese other than Chinese?
CHINESE?!?!?!?! You don't know your languages....


Probably it can be argued that Korean is the only langauge that corresponds with Japanese. Most of the language structure is similiar enough that if you just change the words from Japanese to Korean, you get nearly a perfect sentence.


That aside, I'm not sure what this is saying:
本当はお嬛様だったことを思わせるドレス.
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Old 2008-06-11, 00:55   Link #1548
yezhanquan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
CHINESE?!?!?!?! You don't know your languages....


Probably it can be argued that Korean is the only langauge that corresponds with Japanese. Most of the language structure is similiar enough that if you just change the words from Japanese to Korean, you get nearly a perfect sentence.


That aside, I'm not sure what this is saying:
本当はお嬛様だったことを思わせるドレス.
Considering their pasts, I won't find that surprising at all.

Last edited by yezhanquan; 2008-06-11 at 01:12. Reason: Error
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Old 2008-06-11, 01:06   Link #1549
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
It's eerie how similar Hangul and hiragana are at some levels.
Er, that's just you.
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Old 2008-06-11, 01:22   Link #1550
LiberLibri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
It's eerie how similar Hangul and hiragana are at some levels.
Really?
To my eyes Hangul looks like one of the Brahmic scripts. History tells the genealogy of Brahmic -> Tibetan -> Phagspa -> Hangul, so I think my eyes are not corrupt.

>本当はお嬢様だったことを思わせるドレス.

I don't know the context, but it can be read: the dress that reminds me of the fact the woman wearing it is actually a lady.
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Old 2008-06-11, 12:41   Link #1551
Vexx
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I will say Hangul is one of the "cooler" looking phonetic scripts just as a personal opinion from my love of languages.

But don't mind me... I have amazing difficulty holding two separate phonetic scripts in my head because my brain insists that only one script is needed for the same language
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Old 2008-06-11, 13:42   Link #1552
Mystique
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gosh the first time i saw mass hangul in japan and got my korean friend to write it to me at the time, it looked like some futuristic script from space with all the circles, squares and lines x.x

Still totally seems bizzare to me, kinda fascinated by it to be honest, but i'll think i'll just stick with the 3 alphabets, one of which i got another odd 900 characters to study before i'm even considered 'literate' ;_;
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Old 2008-06-11, 17:34   Link #1553
Izayoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
What do you mean by "corresponds"?

Syntactically Japanese is one of the agglutinative languages, and Chinese(s) is among the isolated languages. Although Japanese language has borrowed innumerable words from Chinese (and in modern ages vice versa), the both have mutually distinct structures. Possibly Turkish, Hungarian or any other Altaic languages might be nearer to Japanese in that point.

As for kanji-related letters, there are some languages using such ones; Vietnam's Chữ Nôm and Koreans' Hanja are well known. (so-called CJKV: China, Japan, Korea and Vietnam logosphere)
Thanks, probably go for Korean next. I was talking about letter structure thats all, Kanji directly relate to Chinese while Hiragana came from Chinese cursive scripture and Katakana came from Chinese(万葉仮名) also. Not really taking grammar into account nor the sounds, but anything would do really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
[B]CHINESE?!?!?!?! You don't know your languages....
.
Rofl I have no idea what you are talking about. But doesn't most of Japan's writing structure origin from Chinese? As for Korean, Hanja basically is Chinese/Kanji. 漢字. And for hangul, I heard it was simply created for a easier writing system than hanja; though I have no idea where it origin. Yes they are both languages of agglutinative languages, but I am not exactly asking that.

Last edited by Izayoi; 2008-06-11 at 17:45.
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Old 2008-06-11, 17:45   Link #1554
tripperazn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Rofl I have no idea what you are talking about. But doesn't most of Japan's writing structure origin from Chinese?
Yes, kanji (and to some extent, kana) originated from Chinese script. But in just about every other regard, Korean is much more similar to Japanese. Just because they are written the same way, doesn't mean they are pronounced the same way, or organized the same way. Korean also incorporates Chinese writing sometimes, in a similar fashion to Japanese.

I would have a much easier time with Japanese if I were Korean, instead of Chinese.
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Old 2008-06-11, 17:55   Link #1555
Izayoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
Yes, kanji (and to some extent, kana) originated from Chinese script. But in just about every other regard, Korean is much more similar to Japanese. Just because they are written the same way, doesn't mean they are pronounced the same way, or organized the same way. Korean also incorporates Chinese writing sometimes, in a similar fashion to Japanese.

I would have a much easier time with Japanese if I were Korean, instead of Chinese.
Right, but he sounded like Chinese has no relationship at all with Japanese. I was simply talking about the writing structure, not the actual sound nor grammar of it; if I didn't state that quite clearly. I have some idea on Korean but didn't know it was closer thats all. (Korean origin from Chinese too :V)

Edit: Checked on Hangul a bit, it was actually created in order to serve a easier system of Chinese. While Korean have a lot of relationship with China back then. Most surprising thing is Hangul also origin from Chinese Wiki.
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Old 2008-06-11, 18:09   Link #1556
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Right, but he sounded like Chinese has no relationship at all with Japanese. I was simply talking about the writing structure, not the actual sound nor grammar of it; if I didn't state that quite clearly. I have some idea on Korean but didn't know it was closer thats all. (Korean origin from Chinese too :V)

Edit: Checked on Hangul a bit, it was actually created in order to serve a easier system of Chinese. While Korean have a lot of relationship with China back then. Most surprising thing is Hangul also origin from Chinese Wiki.
I understood your original statement to mean that the LANGUAGE, not the WRITING SYSTEM, were close.

Also, what do you mean by "a easier system of Chinese" and "Hangul also origin from Chinese "?
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Old 2008-06-11, 18:12   Link #1557
Izayoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I understood your original statement to mean that the LANGUAGE, not the WRITING SYSTEM, were close.

Also, what do you mean by "a easier system of Chinese"?
Not system of Chinese, Hanja I mean(Hanja means Chinese anyways 漢文.). "Hangul was designed so that even a commoner could learn to read and write; the Haerye says "A wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days." They thought Hanja was too hard and yea. Just check the wiki page. Another thing is if the writing system is close doesn't it mean the language system is close too? You sounded like they were different languages.
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Last edited by Izayoi; 2008-06-11 at 18:18. Reason: typos rock
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Old 2008-06-11, 18:21   Link #1558
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
Not system of Chinese, Hanja I mean. "Hangul was designed so that even a commoner could learn to read and write; the Haerye says "A wise man can acquaint himself with them before the morning is over; a stupid man can learn them in the space of ten days." They thought Hanja was too hard and yea. Just check the wiki page.
You missed the important section that is in front of the part you quoted:

Quote:
Sejong explained that he created the new script because the existing idu systems, based on Chinese characters, were not good fits to the Korean language and were so difficult that only privileged aristocrats (yangban), usually male, could afford the time and education to learn to read and write fluently.
Idu is a writing system that's similar to hiragana and katagana in that is uses Asian characters (I never say "Chinese" when taking in the broader concept) to communicate. However, unlike the Japanese characters, idu didn't simplify the characters, and this led to a higher level of learning needed to understand what was written.

Hangul is a full-scale phonemic alphabet, designed so that people have an easier time learning.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
If the writing system is close doesn't it mean the language system is close? You sounded like they were different languages.
I'm not sure how using using loanwords from Asian characters equal to similarity between languages.

Also, OF COURSE they are different languages. Do you think you can just change the words to the other language and get an understandable sentence?
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Old 2008-06-11, 18:27   Link #1559
Izayoi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
You missed the important section that is in front of the part you quoted:



Idu is a writing system that's similar to hiragana and katagana in that is uses Asian characters (I never say "Chinese" when taking in the broader concept) to communicate. However, unlike the Japanese characters, idu didn't simplify the characters, and this led to a higher level of learning needed to understand what was written.

Hangul is a full-scale phonemic alphabet, designed so that people have an easier time learning.






I'm not sure how using using loanwords from Asian characters equal to similarity between languages.

Also, OF COURSE they are different languages. Do you think you can just change the words to the other language and get an understandable sentence?
@Explanation for Idu: Same thing
@???: .. I mean totally different languages, they have similarities right? Then you can't call them totally different. Any idea why I keep mixing and skipping words?
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Old 2008-06-11, 18:31   Link #1560
Kang Seung Jae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
@Explanation for Idu: Same thing
How is that the same thing?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Setsilya~ View Post
@???: .. I mean totally different languages, they have similarities right? Then you can't call them totally different. Any idea why I keep mixing and skipping words?
The only noticeable similarity is using loanwords. If English has tons of loanwords from say, Korean, does that make English similar to Korean?
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