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Old 2004-07-13, 17:27   Link #141
Lexander
www.thefestlanders.com
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
You know I noticed we don't have enough threads on Japanese. Keep em coming.
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Old 2004-07-14, 00:07   Link #142
raikage
日本語を食べません!
 
 
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All you need to know about Japanese...

But seriously, it's not the most difficult thing ever. Romaji is essentially useless - as soon as you learn kana, you won't/shouldn't be using Romaji pretty much ever again.

At basic/intermediate levels, conjugation isn't all that hard - all past tenses end pretty much the same way, present tenses, conditionals, etc. etc.
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Old 2004-07-20, 23:53   Link #143
Uesugi-sama
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Join Date: Jul 2004
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I'm currently revising all the material of my class since I'm a volunteer Japanese teacher. Next semester I'll be teaching more people Japanese than ever, so I need better material. I've been making hiragana/katakana practise sheets, pronunciation charts and all sorts of new lessons.
I also use the classical Japanese way of teaching Kanji (which means I start with first grade kanji and work up to 8th grade and then add kanji for common names). The classes are free, but only available in the California Bay Area for now. If you want to sign up for an online class next semester, you can always PM me.
And yes, I have my teaching license as well as a diploma for Japanese, so I know what I'm doing.
I'm trying to get more lessons online, but it's a lot of work, and I'm just so busy.
One of my goals to provide a good online program that will reach more people.
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Old 2004-07-21, 00:50   Link #144
Ke0
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For those who are "learning" by listening to music, watching anime etc etc, I strongly suggest you take a some classes first, then do whatever you guys do to learn, it'll be alot easier that way, since you will know the do's and do nots. Because it would suck if you did in fact learn, but you talk like a girl, and you're a guy, or you talk like an informal prick, when your trying to be polite, and once it's become habit, it will be very hard to break. When I was in classes in Japan, one of my teachers gave me this site japanese.about.com

It's one of the few sites that give you the basics, Kanji, Kana, do's and do nots, all forms of conjugation, particle use, etc etc I wish more sites, listed the do's and do not's.

There's this one guy in my Art class here @ USC, who swears he learned Japanese from Gundam, so I started talking in the little Japanese he knew, and well let's say he has ALOT of learning to do, and he makes alot of mistakes in use of conjugation. Then he talks about how he wants to move to Japan, because he read all these books, so he knows how it is living there.........god if only he knew
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Old 2004-11-11, 20:45   Link #145
Blackvoice
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Learning to Sub

I have been trying on and off to learn Japanese and be fluent in it. I have tried the various silly methods like the Pimsluer quick learning CDs for spoken Japanese. but all they teach you are the basic things like saying you want to eat and telling the time etc. I would like to get to the point where I could watch and understand a raw feed. Now IMHO I believe you would need to live in Japan for maybe a couple of years straight to be able to carry on a conversation in Japanese. Since I do not have any immediate plans to move there anytime soon thatís out of the question. All that being said I would like to find out from some of you translators out there is there anyway a person can learn spoken Japanese without taking college classes? I hope to be a translator for a fansub someday.

PS; i think i posted this in the wrong aread...
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Old 2004-11-11, 21:40   Link #146
signseeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackvoice
I have been trying on and off to learn Japanese and be fluent in it. I have tried the various silly methods like the Pimsluer quick learning CDs for spoken Japanese. but all they teach you are the basic things like saying you want to eat and telling the time etc. I would like to get to the point where I could watch and understand a raw feed. Now IMHO I believe you would need to live in Japan for maybe a couple of years straight to be able to carry on a conversation in Japanese. Since I do not have any immediate plans to move there anytime soon thatís out of the question. All that being said I would like to find out from some of you translators out there is there anyway a person can learn spoken Japanese without taking college classes? I hope to be a translator for a fansub someday.

PS; i think i posted this in the wrong aread...
The only sure way is to take classes, but since you dont want to I would suggest reading manga in english and japanese several times. I have heard this works, but am no sure how well.
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Old 2004-11-11, 22:11   Link #147
Alterscape
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I've been taking Japanese for a year and a half now in university, and I still suck. Granted, part of this is my own lack of language learning ability (I took 4 years of Spanish in highschool, and sucked at that too) but in general, I very much doubt you'd be able to attain fluency without either living in Japan or taking classes for several years. If you want to start teaching yourself, I'd reccomend you pick up a book and start studying, though it'll be rough with no teacher to correct your mistakes and so forth..
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Old 2004-11-11, 22:19   Link #148
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
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Watching anime has helped slightly for me, but of course the best way to learn is to have actual conversations with native speakers.
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Old 2004-11-11, 23:10   Link #149
Srin Tuar
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Study the language some first. (reading/writing/grammar/vocab)
Once you finish that, read manga and watch anime.
Talk about the parts you dont understand in online language exchange forums.
You should be able to pick it up.

Ive never been to Japan, and I dont have any native speakers to talk with, but I find that I can understand about 90+% of most anime. If I rewind alot I can usually figure out the parts I missed. With an online dictionary, I can lookup terms I dont know and add them to my study list.
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Old 2004-11-12, 01:12   Link #150
JediNight
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Pick up a book series named "Genki" if you have the money. It's a 2 book series, you can find the ISBN for it on Amazon.com, but they want alot of money for it so I would look elsewhere. The Genki series is basically the standard for learning, there are also CDs to go along with the books to cover conversations.
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Old 2004-11-12, 21:33   Link #151
raikage
日本語を食べません!
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Watching anime has helped slightly for me, but of course the best way to learn is to have actual conversations with native speakers.
Watching anime did not help at all until ~3rd/4th semester for me.

Until you're at the point to recognize many various forms of verbs and enough words to understand ~80-90% of the sentence anyway (i.e. only 1-2 words you don't know), you won't learn very much.

Until you're at the point to understand words despite how fast they're speaking, it won't help that much.

Uesugi-sama's classes intrigue me - especially since I live in SF. Do you have a link or something?
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Old 2004-11-13, 08:50   Link #152
AzureLight
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See, I've been learning Japanese on my own for around 7 years now, at a slow but steady pace. Before you jump to any conclusions, realise where I live. Japanese classes are very very hard to come by. Fortunately it is offered in my university (just entered this summer), but the teaching's so basic, I'll pwn the first 2 years.

Different people have different learning methods and preferences, there is no set guideline. In my case, I started with song lyrics. Then over to buying my grammar book and dictionary. I'm also fortunate to play some untranslated dating sims, the voices that go with the kanji subtitles really help a lot. Then I got my kanji dictionary, and nowadays I translate (I've Sound) songs and submitting them to AnimeLyrics.

I must note one thing: Don't make the mistake I did by learning it fully in romaji and neglecting the writing part. By writing, you can memorise the kana and kanji better.
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Old 2004-12-14, 23:16   Link #153
Subversal08
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Angry Gravitation Is A Misinforming Idiot

i read through all your stupid japanese lessons, it's obvious you have never been in a japanese class or had any instruction other than what you probably have learned off the internet... well YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE, EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS FILLED WITH MISTAKES\MISINFORMATION... PLZZ.. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE AND TEACHING THEM YOUR NONSENSE JAPANESE, AND GO OUT AND ACTUALLY LEARN SOME JAPANESE FROM A JAPANESE TEACHER. MAYBE THEN YOU CAN COME ON FORUMS, AND TELL PEOPLE HOW TO SPEAK JAPANESE. JUST CAUSE YOUR OBSESSED WITH ANIME AND JAPAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRETEND YOU KNOW THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE.




















Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitation
I thought it would have been done already but alas no. There may be people who are not able to get lessons so here is where you come!! I am still learning japanese and have ALOT more to learn...so I am going to say a few basic things and maybe some other people who speak or are learning it can contribute ^_^!

*~~::Okey a few notes::~~*

++As you most probably know, the japanese people are really big on manners so you have to be careful when you speak.

++Dictionary form verbs (verbs straight from the dictionary) can be rude when your speaking to people, especially elders!

++There are 3 levels of politeness (roughly anyway); there is low (dictionary), medium (the standard which lots of people use) which involves adding "masu" on words (dont worry at the moment) and the highest level of politeness which I don't know much about but adding "gozaimasu" on to the end of arigatou is being really polite ^_^

++There are 4 styles of writing...not sure if i should say styles but anyway...theres is Kanji(typical jap symbols), hiragana, romaji (english letters) and katakana...i only know hiragana at the moment but i will learn the othes eventually.

++This has nothing to do with learning Japanese but i was told by my tutour that if ya have your chop sticks facing somebody it means you want them dead...lol! thats why they have them horizontally.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".

++Also lots of japanese words like "desu" and "masu" end with "u"...most japanese people dont pronounce the "u" so "desu" spoken would be "des" but of course there are some parts of japan in which they do pronounce it...its your choice. In lots of animes they pronounce the "u" i think they do it coz it sounds cute sometimes ^_^

*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"
10 = jyu

*~~::Greetings::~~*
Hello = kon nichi wa
goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")
yes = hai
no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)
thank you = arigato
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku (used on this board alot ^_^)
excuse me (attention) = Shitsurei
Sorry = sumimasen or gomenasai or gomen

*~~::NEXT LESSON::~~*...when i have done my homework
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions
Days of the week
Animals

*~~::NEXT NEXT LESSON::~~*
alphabets
simple sentence structure
objects (car, window etc)
verbs(dictionary form)

and there will be more lessons which will teach ya how to convert dictionary form verbs to polite form....and also how to change the tense...but lets stick with the basics for now ^_^
P.S i most probably made some mistakes so ya can just tell me and i will fix em ^_^
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Old 2004-12-15, 00:23   Link #154
RedEyes
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This is actually interesting, I'm gonna start from scratch since I don't know the least bit of Jap.

That site with the sound prounciation p3psi gave is pretty useful.
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Old 2004-12-15, 00:25   Link #155
Animizzle
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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grbmll n/m this post plz
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Old 2004-12-15, 16:56   Link #156
raikage
日本語を食べません!
 
 
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Location: San Francisco
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subversal08
i read through all your stupid japanese lessons, it's obvious you have never been in a japanese class or had any instruction other than what you probably have learned off the internet... well YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JAPANESE, EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS FILLED WITH MISTAKES\MISINFORMATION... PLZZ.. STOP MISLEADING PEOPLE AND TEACHING THEM YOUR NONSENSE JAPANESE, AND GO OUT AND ACTUALLY LEARN SOME JAPANESE FROM A JAPANESE TEACHER. MAYBE THEN YOU CAN COME ON FORUMS, AND TELL PEOPLE HOW TO SPEAK JAPANESE. JUST CAUSE YOUR OBSESSED WITH ANIME AND JAPAN, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO PRETEND YOU KNOW THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE.
Hey and welcome to the forums!

Sorry, but there's not that much here that's wrong, as far as I can tell. All comments are in red.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitation
I thought it would have been done already but alas no. There may be people who are not able to get lessons so here is where you come!! I am still learning japanese and have ALOT more to learn...so I am going to say a few basic things and maybe some other people who speak or are learning it can contribute ^_^!

*~~::Okey a few notes::~~*

++As you most probably know, the japanese people are really big on manners so you have to be careful when you speak.
This is, as far as I know, true. You might be able to get away with it, though, seeing as you're not a native speaker.

++Dictionary form verbs (verbs straight from the dictionary) can be rude when your speaking to people, especially elders!
See above. Using dictionary-form (casual) is a way you talk among your friends/possibly peers who aren't friends. It would be kind of odd if you were to speak to your parents using teineigo (~masu form) - since they are so close to you.

++There are 3 levels of politeness (roughly anyway); there is low (dictionary), medium (the standard which lots of people use) which involves adding "masu" on words (dont worry at the moment) and the highest level of politeness which I don't know much about but adding "gozaimasu" on to the end of arigatou is being really polite ^_^
This is sort-of correct. The dictionary form, teineigo, and keigo (which can itself be broken down into son'keigo and kenjougo).

++There are 4 styles of writing...not sure if i should say styles but anyway...theres is Kanji(typical jap symbols), hiragana, romaji (english letters) and katakana...i only know hiragana at the moment but i will learn the othes eventually.
Romaji doesn't really count as a style of writing. I don't think any Japanese person in Japan would ever use romaji.

++This has nothing to do with learning Japanese but i was told by my tutour that if ya have your chop sticks facing somebody it means you want them dead...lol! thats why they have them horizontally.
In China (and I would guess in Japan, too) having your chopsticks coming vertically out of the bowl has the same look as incense sticks coming out of someone's grave.

++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".
This is wrong - yet it's not. The verb will always come at the end of the sentence, and so if the verb used is 'desu' then it will come at the end of the sentence.

++Also lots of japanese words like "desu" and "masu" end with "u"...most japanese people dont pronounce the "u" so "desu" spoken would be "des" but of course there are some parts of japan in which they do pronounce it...its your choice. In lots of animes they pronounce the "u" i think they do it coz it sounds cute sometimes ^_^
The 'u' in these verbs is, as far as I know, often silent.

*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q"also kyuu
10 = jyu Actually, it's jyuu.

*~~::Greetings::~~*
Hello = kon nichi wa
goodbye = Sayonara (line above the "o")Sayounara is, as best I can tell, not used in everyday conversation. I would say to my teacher, "Dewa, mata ashita", which if processed down to among friends, "Ja, mata ashita" -> "Ja, mata" -> "Ja" -> "Ja, ne"
yes = hai
no = ie (ie also means house ^_^)Ie means house. Iie means no. Iya means you find something (presumably what was just said) very unpleasant.
thank you = arigatou
Pleased to meet you = Yoroshiku (used on this board alot ^_^)
excuse me (attention) = ShitsureiMore literal meaning of shitsurei: rude. If I wanted to get someone's attention, I would use anou... among friends or sumimasen... among those who I should be more respectful to.
Sorry = sumimasen or gomenasai gomen'nasai or gomen

*~~::NEXT LESSON::~~*...when i have done my homework
Subjects (like people...you, i, mum, etc)
Simple tourist questions
Questions
Days of the week
Animals

*~~::NEXT NEXT LESSON::~~*
alphabets
simple sentence structure
objects (car, window etc)
verbs(dictionary form)

and there will be more lessons which will teach ya how to convert dictionary form verbs to polite form....and also how to change the tense...but lets stick with the basics for now ^_^
P.S i most probably made some mistakes so ya can just tell me and i will fix em ^_^
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Old 2004-12-15, 18:21   Link #157
7thMethuselah
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Age: 39
I just cut out the parts I want to comment on

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitation
++In japanese to signify that its the end of the sentence they have "desu".
This is wrong! A japanese sentence always has the verb as the last word in it. That is in the case we are not counting the question mark "ka" or other such words as "yo" "ne" etc ...

So when there is a sentence is which desu is used (desu is a contracted form of the verb "to be" ) it does end the sentence. However not all sentences end with desu : for example : hon o motte kimashita : I brought a book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitation
*~~::Lets start with simple things::~~*
1 = ichi (some ppl say ich)
2 = ni
3 = san
4 = shi/yon
5 = go (o is pronounced like the "o" in rob...soz thats all i can think of)
6 = roku
7 = nana/shishi it's shichi not shishi, shi and chi are two very different sounds in japanese
8 = hachi
9 = Ku (there is supposed to be a line above the "u"..its pronounced like "q" actually you got it mixed up : it's Ku with a short u or Kyuu with a long u (long u's are indicated with a line above them is some romanji conventions), the difference between the two? It's more natural to use ku for small number and to use Kyuu for larger ones, although both are actually correct.
10 = jyu : it's Juu not Jyu

Notice that 4 7 and 9 have 2 different options, now in alot of cases you can use both but often only one of these two is used, which is a first difficulty when learning how to count in japanese, but this is only one of many as you will learn from my post
Ok, when learning Japanese : do NOT start with number, they are in fact NOT simple. First of all, I corrected the ones you posted. Second, allow me to explain

What you posted is the chinese set from 1 to 10, the japanese use both a chinese set of numbers (going from 1 to infinity) and a japanese set of numbers (going from 1 to 10 and a few extra numbers beyond that like 20). Now these numbers are not used in normal day conversations. The reason is simple: Japanese uses classifiers to count things : this basically means that you have to add something to these numbers depending on the object you are counting. That is what makes counting from 1 to 10 in japanese a rather tough job. If you do not add such classifiers it will be VERY difficult to know what you are talking about since in japanese it's not explicitly mentioned what they are counting : the classifier is suppose to indicate that.

Now what happens is : when you add this classifier alot of the number change into completely different words.

For example : counting flat objects (for example paper) : add -MAI
to say 1 (flat object) = ichi + mai = ichimai
2 (flat objects) ni + mai : nimai
3 (flat objects) san + mai = sammai -> here there is a sound change from n to m, this is still relatively easy since it's standard for an n to be pronounced m before a b an m or a p

Another more complicated example = counting long, slender objects (trees for example) : add - HON
1 (tree) : ichi + hon does NOT become ichihon but is in fact ippon
3 (tree) : san + hon = sambon
6 (tree) : roku + hon = roppon

To make matters worse : sometimes the numbers are no longer sound contractions like in the above mentioned examples but entirely different words which are sometimes based upon the japanese set of numbers from 1 to 10 (we've been using the chinese set from 1 to 10 up to now)

Counting persons = add -NIN

1 (person) : ichi + nin this is NOT used, the japanese use hitori instead
2 (person) becomes futari and not ni + nin
3 (person) : all you naruto fans will love this one san + nin becomes Sannin

As you can see these sound contractions are very difficult, since it takes a while to get the hang of them, especially when you realise there are dozens and dozens of classifiers in japanese.


hitori and futari are based upon the japanese numbers from 1 to ten, the ones I've been using up to now are the chinese ones, which are the ones mostly used.
Now when you are counting objects which do NOT have a classifier, it's more common in japanese to use the japanese set of numbers from 1 to 10

1 Hitotsu
2 Futatsu
3 Mittsu
4 Yottsu
5 Itsutsu
6 Muttsu
7 Nanatsu
8 Yattsu
9 Kokonotsu
10 Too

for numbers above 10, the chinese set is used instead.

Wow, long (and I hope somewhat informative) post. My advice is actually simple : when learning japanese don't start with numbers, they aren't easy at all and can easilly discourage you, learn the numbers when you get the hang of a few simple sentences allready, and slowly introduce the numbers and classifiers a few at a time, in my japanese class everyone agrees that one of the hardest things about learning japanese is in fact learning how to count, since this creates alot of extra vocabulary and it's not always easy to pick up the words when you hear them (that takes quite some practice)

If you are gonna visit japan and you want to learn a few usefull sentences, I believe it's more useful to learn how to ask a shopkeeper to write the price on a piece of paper rather than learning to understand him, japanese numbers get complicating, especially when they surpass 10 000 since the method of counting completely differs then from our own.
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Old 2004-12-15, 18:44   Link #158
MwyC
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most important web link for learning japanese....

ever

=p

http://www.jingai.com/yakuza/introduction.html
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Old 2004-12-15, 20:59   Link #159
TronDD
Team the box!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thMethuselah
(long u's are indicated with a line above them is some romanji conventions)
Since there seems to be a pissing contest going on...it's romaji, not romanji.

Love, you're avatar, too.
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Old 2004-12-16, 03:06   Link #160
Roots
外人、漫画訳者
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MwyC
most important web link for learning japanese....

ever

=p

http://www.jingai.com/yakuza/introduction.html

<<< LOL! I used this site as a reference for a Japanese class I took last Spring. In it we had to make a skit, and....hmm I can't remember it very well right now but I remember I played a Yakuza boss. Yakuza Japanese is very fun indeed.


ああ、さつだ!何してる、早く逃げろう! 
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