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Old 2006-02-04, 17:26   Link #121
Illuyankas
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He would NOT be physically harmed, as he would not have a physical body eg. one made from matter. Also, the manga does not state about cutting anything beyond metal, not from Zoro first meeting Daz Bones to after he obtains the 'power to cut nothing, and the power to cut metal', while Mr. 1 is lying on the ground, bleeding. So I have reread the manga and have come to you with facts, not opinions. You were wrong.
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Old 2006-02-04, 17:34   Link #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
He would NOT be physically harmed, as he would not have a physical body eg. one made from matter. Also, the manga does not state about cutting anything beyond metal, not from Zoro first meeting Daz Bones to after he obtains the 'power to cut nothing, and the power to cut metal', while Mr. 1 is lying on the ground, bleeding. So I have reread the manga and have come to you with facts, not opinions. You were wrong.
No I am right Zoro can cut steel go read Stephen's Scripts. He has the correct translations. Watch episode 119 it clearly says the title "The Essence of a Mighty Sword the power to cut steel and the breath of all things." I present facts you are wrong.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2006-02-04 at 17:47.
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Old 2006-02-04, 17:51   Link #123
Illuyankas
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Chapter 194 during the flashback, said by Zoro's teacher: "Listen, there are some who can't cut anything... but that same swordsman can slash through metal, using the same sword."

Chapter 195 page 17 while Zoro's thinking: "Not being able to cut through... Is to understand the meaning of breathing? Is this the power to cut metal?"

Same chapter, next page, just before the two page final spread: "Now to see if I truly have gained the power to cut through metal!"


No mention of anything other than metal or steel. The manga is more accurate than the anime, you are wrong.
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Old 2006-02-04, 17:54   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
Chapter 194 during the flashback, said by Zoro's teacher: "Listen, there are some who can't cut anything... but that same swordsman can slash through metal, using the same sword."

Chapter 195 page 17 while Zoro's thinking: "Not being able to cut through... Is to understand the meaning of breathing? Is this the power to cut metal?"

Same chapter, next page, just before the two page final spread: "Now to see if I truly have gained the power to cut through metal!"


No mention of anything other than metal or steel. The manga is more accurate than the anime, you are wrong.
Actually the manga is not more accurate than the anime because Oda Himself directs what needs to be said and the descriptions of the characters. Like I said go to Stephen's Scripts he has the correct translations then read the SBS on what Oda is saying on how he is involved in the anime.

Here it is from Stephen

Page 161 -

<<Sensei: You see, there are swordsmen in this world that can cut NOTHING.
But they can cut steel.
With the same sword...
The "Strongest Blade"... has the power to protect what it wants to protect and cut what it wants to cut.
I believe that a sword that harms whatever it touches... cannot be called a "sword".
Do you understand?

Same thing defining what I was saying the anime and the manga on this matter is the same.

The "Strongest Blade"... has the power to protect what it wants to protect and cut what it wants to cut. Therefore Zoro can cut Lighting it's breath.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:02   Link #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
In Episode 120 Zoro Mentions that he does not know how to do the technique properly. He was in a different state of mind when he used the technique.
Except that Zoro that faced Enel is diffrent from the one in ep 120.
Quote:
No the quote does not end at steel you Neodrag need to rewatch the episode and reread the manga then come talk to me with some facts instead of your own opinions.
No I don't since it remains in both the anime and manga that Zoro's sensei didn't say cut anything. It was never given in the anime and manga that the breath meant cutting everything.

Zoro still clearly didn't give off the impression that he could cut Enel at all so he clearly was trying to gain the usage of the seastone. Zoro definently should have more credibility in terms of the breath than you since he is the one who actually uses it rather than you just simply making a speculation with no real proof involved.

It remains that while a logia user is made up of an element they still are made up of that element meaning that the thing that gets cut would simply be that element of course resulting in the logia user not being harmed. It's a problem to claim that a swordsman can cut something that doesn't even exist at the time. The flesh and bone that you would want to cut happens to no longer be in existence in an actual flesh and bone form. But who knows what may happen in the future while you keep speaking as if your speculation is irrefutable fact.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:08   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Except that Zoro that faced Enel is diffrent from the one in ep 120.

No I don't since it remains in both the anime and manga that Zoro's sensei didn't say cut anything. It was never given in the anime and manga that the breath meant cutting everything.
Exactly that Zoro was different because he did not know how to use the technique.

No you are wrong I have the episode were it says that he can cut anything. That does not matter when Zoro uses the breath he can cut anything the subject is the breath which allows him to cut anything. It is stated in the anime and Manga.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:14   Link #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
Exactly that Zoro was different because he did not know how to use the technique.

No you are wrong I have the episode were it says that he can cut anything. That does not matter when Zoro uses the breath he can cut anything the subject is the breath which allows him to cut anything. It is stated in the anime and Manga.
I'm sorry but you fail to realize that you can't say that Zoro who defeated Mr.1 at the time is the same as the Zoro that faced Enel. That Zoro clearly shouldn't be at the same level of ability overall that he was when it came him first using the breath to defeat Mr.1.

I think you are confusing the statement Zoro made as a kid in the flashback about him wanting to be a swordsman that can cut anything with what his sensei said. It remains that his sensei didn't say anything beyond cutting steel much less cutting something that no longer exist. You are still suggesting on a speculation that the breath should somehow cut something that no longer exist in a certain physical form or that the breath should allow you to force a logia user out of their elemental state. You don't really have any proof much less that Zoro still clearly didn't give off the idea that trying to do so would be wise.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:15   Link #128
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Well this is probably the easiest question on the forum we all know that Edward Newgate is the strongest pirate out there as said in eps 151 well the strongest guy in the world in other words and hes like the closest to finding the one piece out of all the other pirates, i mean if u could fight evenly with Gold D Roger the Pirate King i think u would probably be the strongest pirate,


But when it comes to the strongest female well phyiscally would be Nami cause shes always hitting luffy and zorro, but probably in combat from what ive seen Nico Robin is the strongest
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:16   Link #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Except that Zoro that faced Enel is diffrent from the one in ep 120.

No I don't since it remains in both the anime and manga that Zoro's sensei didn't say cut anything. It was never given in the anime and manga that the breath meant cutting everything.

Zoro still clearly didn't give off the impression that he could cut Enel at all so he clearly was trying to gain the usage of the seastone. Zoro definently should have more credibility in terms of the breath than you since he is the one who actually uses it rather than you just simply making a speculation with no real proof involved.

It remains that while a logia user is made up of an element they still are made up of that element meaning that the thing that gets cut would simply be that element of course resulting in the logia user not being harmed. It's a problem to claim that a swordsman can cut something that doesn't even exist at the time. The flesh and bone that you would want to cut happens to no longer be in existence in an actual flesh and bone form. But who knows what may happen in the future while you keep speaking as if your speculation is irrefutable fact.

Exactly that Zoro was different because he did not know how to use the technique.

No you are wrong I have the episode were it says that he can cut anything. That does not matter. When Zoro uses the breath he can cut anything. The subject is the breath which allows him to cut anything. It is stated in the anime and Manga. I use actual facts since it is explained so clearly, but yet you still think something Oda said is specualtion. It's obvious to me that I am using facts because it is from the series itself. You are the one speculating about the situation. Go and do research before talking in these type of discussion.

"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:25   Link #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
Exactly that Zoro was different because he did not know how to use the technique.
I'm sorry but you really seem to have a hard time getting to realize this. The Zoro that faced Enel already knows about the breath and clearly is above in ability the one you speak of in episode 120. Meaning that citing episode 120 doesn't make sense since that would be like me commenting on Luffy's ability based solely on how he was in Arabasta.
Quote:
No you are wrong I have the episode were it says that he can cut anything. That does not matter when Zoro uses the breath he can cut anything the subject is the breath which allows him to cut anything. It is stated in the anime and Manga. I use actual facts since it is explained so clearly, but yet you still think something Oda said is specualtion. It's obvious to me that I am using facts because it is from the series itself. You are the one speculating about the situation. Go and do research before talking in these type of discussion.
Zoro as a child made the statement about beinga swordsman that can cut anything. His sensei didn't guarantee that everything in existence is cutable. When you put a sword through water clearly you aren't exactly cutting nor stabbing at it. That when someone turns the flesh and bone into like air for instance you can't expect to actually hurt them. Thus it remains that there has not been any given real proof that to do so is possible with the breath. So at this point the breath thing isn't exactly absolute. Not saying that it's impossible but you clearly won't seem to admit that there is a possbility that the breath can't really be used to kill logia user while they are in their elemental form. I say something is possible while you keep acting like your comments are absolute.
Quote:
"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
His sensei didn't say "or anything else they wish" in those exact words that you quote him. You are still just simply misquoting the guy to weakly support their opinion that you keep treating as an absolute.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:29   Link #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
I'm sorry but you really seem to have a hard time getting to realize this. The Zoro that faced Enel already knows about the breath and clearly is above in ability the one you speak of in episode 120. Meaning that citing episode 120 doesn't make sense since that would be like me commenting on Luffy's ability based solely on how he was in Arabasta.

Zoro as a child made the statement about beinga swordsman that can cut anything. His sensei didn't guarantee that everything in existence is cutable. When you put a sword through water clearly you aren't exactly cutting nor stabbing at it. That when someone turns the flesh and bone into like air for instance you can't expect to actually hurt them. Thus it remains that there has not been any given real proof that to do so is possible with the breath. So at this point the breath thing isn't exactly absolute. Not saying that it's impossible but you clearly won't seem to admit that there is a possbility that the breath can't really be used to kill logia user while they are in their elemental form. I say something is possible while you keep acting like your comments are absolute.

His sensei didn't say "or anything else they wish" in those exact words that you quote him. You are still just simply misquoting the guy to weakly support their opinion that you keep treating as an absolute.
That's it it is obvious too me now that you need to go watch the episode go download the episode at kaizoku fansubs. Please so you can see for yourself. I do not misquote anything. Everything has a Breath, and that Breath can be cut by a sword simple as that. Including Ener's lighting. Please go watch the episode you are just running your mouth and don't even know what you are talking about. I thought you were better than that Neodrag. Episode 119!!!

"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:38   Link #132
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
That's it it is obvious too me now that you need to go watch the episode go download the episode at kaizoku fansubs. Please so you can see for yourself. I do not misquote anything. Everything has a Breath, and that Breath can be cut by a sword simple as that. Including Ener's lighting. Please go watch the episode you are just running your mouth and don't even know what you are talking about. I thought you were better than that Neodrag. Episode 119!!!

"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
Except that the lightning doesn't consist of flesh and bone. That it remains that his form is that of a non-physical substance that he can will to come back together. What you keep voicing in speculation is that cutting at this lightning should also mean cutting Enel in a way that actually harms him. While Enel is in the form of his element his flesh and bone don't actually exist anymore in terms of something that will be cut and bleed so suggesting that with the breath Zoro should be able to cut Enel while Zoro pretty much made it clear that he wasn't thinking that it would be possible to do so after he tried is a bit odd.

So in short lightning having breath, as weird as that may be since lightning isn't even a physical object in terms of steel or rocks, doesn't really mean much when it is simply willed to being reformed by Enel.

His sensei didn't say "or anything else they wish" in the flashback.
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Old 2006-02-04, 18:42   Link #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Except that the lightning doesn't consist of flesh and bone. That it remains that his form is that of a non-physical substance that he can will to come back together. What you keep voicing in speculation is that cutting at this lightning should also mean cutting Enel in a way that actually harms him. While Enel is in the form of his element his flesh and bone don't actually exist anymore in terms of something that will be cut and bleed so suggesting that with the breath Zoro should be able to cut Enel while Zoro pretty much made it clear that he wasn't thinking that it would be possible to do so after he tried is a bit odd.

So in short lightning having breath, as weird as that may be since lightning isn't even a physical object in terms of steel or rocks, doesn't really mean much when it is simply willed to being reformed by Enel.

His sensei didn't say "or anything else they wish" in the flashback.
No you are very wrong, Steel does not consist of Flesh and Bone. The Breath cut's all the Flesh and Bone It cuts the Breath of the Element. Lighting has a Breath he will be cut and harmed. Physics does not apply to the anime world Neodrag. Please go watch the episode then come talk too me.

"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:00   Link #134
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
No you are very wrong, Steel does not consist of Flesh and Bone. The Breath cut's all the Flesh and Bone It cuts the Breath of the Element. Lighting has a Breath he will be cut and harmed. Physics does not apply to the anime world Neodrag. Please go watch the episode then come talk too me.
Dude, I think you overlooked what I explicitly commented on that the main point being that flesh and bone of a human body and steel are all physical sustances that can be seperated. So cutting the lightning is still simply just cutting lightning. Lightning that easily reformed by Enel's will as he sees fit. Lightning has alot more in common with air than with steel. That Zoro used the breath to cut someone who simply had an exterior composed of steel while Enel is completely made up of the stuff with the option negate any wound that falls upon him.
Quote:
"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
Repeating a misquote doesn't make it right nor does it overlap what has actually occured. You said that Zoro should be able to cut Enel using the breath but of course since he was given the chance to play out that scenario with the clear result being a need to use the seastone makes you statement false.
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:14   Link #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Dude, I think you overlooked what I explicitly commented on that the main point being that flesh and bone of a human body and steel are all physical sustances that can be seperated. So cutting the lightning is still simply just cutting lightning. Lightning that easily reformed by Enel's will as he sees fit. Lightning has alot more in common with air than with steel. That Zoro used the breath to cut someone who simply had an exterior composed of steel while Enel is completely made up of the stuff with the option negate any wound that falls upon him.

Repeating a misquote doesn't make it right nor does it overlap what has actually occured. You said that Zoro should be able to cut Enel using the breath but of course since he was given the chance to play out that scenario with the clear result being a need to use the seastone makes you statement false.
Once again physics does not apply in the world of anime. "To cut nothing" which is actually lighting, Air, etc. It all has a breath. Neodrag in the world of One Piece Swordsman can cut "Nothing" which is the element you seem to explain as lighting. The breath of all things is a very powerful technique.

Like I said Zoro did not know how to use the Technique as he explains in the next episode he did not even know how to do it. That is why he went after the Seaston because with out that technique he could not cut Lighting. The quote is correct ansd I told you to go watch the episode.

"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:24   Link #136
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
Once again physics does not apply in the world of anime. "To cut nothing" which is actually lighting, Air, etc. It all has a breath. Neodrag in the world of One Piece Swordsman can cut "Nothing" which is the element you seem to explain as lighting. The breath of all things is a very powerful technique.
Uh, you do realize that the meaning beyond the "to cut nothing" comment refers to being able to transmit your intent to your sword so that for instance Zoro's sensei didn't cut that paper and Zoro didn't cut that branch when he swung his sword at it.

And again, I didn't say that lightning was "nothing" but that it is a non-physical substance that can't really seen to be cut or at least it being cut doesn't equate to cutting at the flesh and bone of Enel. You don't cut water in a gas form isn't a matter of physics but simply logic.
Quote:
Like I said Zoro did not know how to use the Technique as he explains in the next episode he did not even know how to do it. That is why he went after the Seaston because with out that technique he could not cut Lighting. The quote is correct ansd I told you to go watch the episode.
What you are refering to is at the time right after he defeated Mr.1 when it remains that were are speaking about how Zoro was when fighting Enel. Much less that in the end you yourself said that Zoro could do something yet he couldn't. No number of excuses in the world changes that he couldn't do what you blatantly claim that he can.
Quote:
"In this world we live in, there are swordsman who can cut nothing." However those same swordsman can cut steel or anything else they wish." "all with the same katana."
And repeating your misquote is pretty childish at this point. And what grade are you in when you can't seem to put the quotation marks in a proper manner? Seriously, when you quote something you don't have to use so " in the fashion that you do.
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:29   Link #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Uh, you do realize that the meaning beyond the "to cut nothing" comment refers to being able to transmit your intent to your sword so that for instance Zoro's sensei didn't cut that paper and Zoro didn't cut that branch when he swung his sword at it.

And again, I didn't say that lightning was "nothing" but that it is a non-physical substance that can't really seen to be cut or at least it being cut doesn't equate to cutting at the flesh and bone of Enel. You don't cut water in a gas form isn't a matter of physics but simply logic.

What you are refering to is at the time right after he defeated Mr.1 when it remains that were are speaking about how Zoro was when fighting Enel. Much less that in the end you yourself said that Zoro could do something yet he couldn't. No number of excuses in the world changes that he couldn't do what you blatantly claim that he can.

And repeating your misquote is pretty childish at this point. And what grade are you in when you can't seem to put the quotation marks in a proper manner?

I told you all logic physics do not apply in anime. Zoro has the power to "cut the breath of all Things". Including your precious lighting. This is the world of anime Oda fell in love with Dragonball an anime that clearly surpassed all logic and the action was beyond imagination.

The only reason why he could not cut Ener at that time is because he does not know how to do the technique. That is the only reason for that.
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:33   Link #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
I told you all logic physics do not apply in anime. Zoro has the power to "cut the breath of all Things". Including your precious lighting. This is the world of anime Oda fell in love with Dragonball an anime that clearly surpassed all logic and the action was beyond imagination.
I'm sorry but the last time I checked in One Piece water existed in three states and fire burns. Oda has created quite in interesting world but the guy hasn't gone so far as to throw out any semblance of common sense out the window.
Quote:
The only reason why he could not cut Ener at that time is because he does not know how to do the technique. That is the only reason for that.
Still doesn't change that Zoro couldn't do what you said he should be able to do. Much less that cutting lightning still is basically like that of cutting water when it's in a gaseous form. Whether or not cutting it isn't the problem but that it doesn't really mean much as a result.

And really, I just help but wonder how exactly is that for a quote you would use so many quotation marks as if you don't have a clue how many you would need much less put them. The period after the wish in that quote you put down for his sensei is possibly a typo on your part so I'll give you a benefit of a doubt on that at least.
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:36   Link #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
I'm sorry but the last time I checked in One Piece water existed in three states and fire burns. Oda has created quite in interesting world but the guy hasn't gone so far as to throw out any semblance of common sense out the window.

Still doesn't change that Zoro couldn't do what you said he should be able to do. Much less that cutting lightning still is basically like that of cutting water when it's in a gaseous form. Whether or not cutting it isn't the problem but that it doesn't really mean much as a result.
hell he just did with the "power to cut the breath of all things" that is throwing common sense out the window.

Zoro forgot to do the technique.
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Old 2006-02-04, 19:42   Link #140
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Not really. I still don't remember Zoro cutting gaseous air. Nor was it claimed that the breat was absolute in cutting everything and anything. Still hasn't been shown that the breath can be used to actually cut sustances of a liquid or gaseous form much less non-physical form overall.

And Zoro forgot how? You claiming that he forgot much less was incapable of trying to do so right after he just cut through something that one of Enel's priest commented shouldn't be cutable. And please keep in mind that the thing was still that of a physical substance.

And I get the feeling you keep dodging me on the question of your odd way in placing quotation marks.
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