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Old 2006-02-04, 19:48   Link #141
Phenomenal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Not really. I still don't remember Zoro cutting gaseous air. Nor was it claimed that the breat was absolute in cutting everything and anything. Still hasn't been shown that the breath can be used to actually cut sustances of a liquid or gaseous form much less non-physical form overall.

And Zoro forgot how? You claiming that he forgot much less was incapable of trying to do so right after he just cut through something that one of Enel's priest commented shouldn't be cutable. And please keep in mind that the thing was still that of a physical substance.

And I get the feeling you keep dodging me on the question of your odd way in placing quotation marks.
Neodrag you seem to not understand the concept, I know you did not see the episode because you keep avoiding facts and keep using your own opinions. Go look at the episode then talk to me so you can get an understanding of this powerful technique that Zoro only used once. There is nothing to explain the title says it all "The Essence of a Mighty Sword the power to cut steel and the breath of all things." It is even explained to the audience in detail. If you can not understand that all things can be cut, then your comprehension skills are off way off.

I place quotaion marks because it was something said in the manga or anime, that is the only reason I place quotation marks.
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Old 2006-02-04, 20:00   Link #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
Neodrag you seem to not understand the concept, I know you did not see the episode because you keep avoiding facts and keep using your own opinions. Go look at the episode then talk to me so you can get an understanding of this powerful technique that Zoro only used once. There is nothing to explain the title says it all "The Essence of a Mighty Sword the power to cut steel and the breath of all things." It is even explained to the audience in detail. If you can not understand that all things can be cut, then your comprehension skills are off way off.
And you still keep failing to realize that all you have is Zoro doing this to physical objects. The fact that you put in that what Zoro was cutting at breath of Mr.1 makes it clear that you are a bit confused on the subject. Especially when it is clear that it was a matter of Zorro not only being able to perceive the breath but that also that he transfers his intent into his sword to make it do what he wishes. It remains that Zoro in that scene during Arabasta didn't comment that the air itself for instance has this breath. Steel, rocks, and the ground itself are substances of a form different from that of lightningin much less that cutting lightning is still cutting lightning. When in an elemental state the flesh and bones that need to damaged so that a person can be damaged no longer exist for a logia user when they already have transformed this into something else that they themselves can take apart into alot more pieces of matter that would be more than the amount a sword would do.
Quote:
I place quotaion marks because it was something said in the manga or anime, that is the only reason I place quotation marks.
You really don't like reading other people's post do you? I was commenting on the fact that you were placing a strange amoutn of quotation marks at weird places. What you were trying to do in terms of quoting would have a quotation mark at the beginning of the statement and that the end of it. Not several sloppily placed quotations. You don't put in a quotation mark simply because a sentence ends.
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Old 2006-02-04, 20:00   Link #143
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@The Phenomenol - Explain to me what you think will happen when Zoro cuts Ener. Say more than just 'he'll cut him, and he'll die'. I'm interested in what you believe would happen. Try as full an account as you can.
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Old 2006-02-04, 20:09   Link #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
And you still keep failing to realize that all you have is Zoro doing this to physical objects. The fact that you put in that what Zoro was cutting at breath of Mr.1 makes it clear that you are a bit confused on the subject. Especially when it is clear that it was a matter of Zorro not only being able to perceive the breath but that also that he transfers his intent into his sword to make it do what he wishes. It remains that Zoro in that scene during Arabasta didn't comment that the air itself for instance has this breath. Steel, rocks, and the ground itself are substances of a form different from that of lightningin much less that cutting lightning is still cutting lightning. When in an elemental state the flesh and bones that need to damaged so that a person can be damaged no longer exist for a logia user when they already have transformed this into something else that they themselves can take apart into alot more pieces of matter that would be more than the amount a sword would do.

You really don't like reading other people's post do you? I was commenting on the fact that you were placing a strange amoutn of quotation marks at weird places. What you were trying to do in terms of quoting would have a quotation mark at the beginning of the statement and that the end of it. Not several sloppily placed quotations. You don't put in a quotation mark simply because a sentence ends.
Neodrag have you forgotten, or maybe you did not read the part where it says to cut the "Breath of ALL THINGS" solid, or liquid, or gas(Including Lighting). I put it in caps so you can read that. Oda the creator said it himself and yet you still think something he says is speculation. hmmm figures.

You need to stop worrying about my quotations and worry about this ass wooping I am putting on you and Ener.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2006-02-04 at 20:30.
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Old 2006-02-04, 20:33   Link #145
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Neodrag38 is using reason, common sense and politeness (god knows how), and you are using idiocy, fanboyism and ignorance. You are using as the entire basis of your opinion an episode title, which are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to the contents of an episode; repeatedly quoting incorrect lines from ONE translation to the point of ridicule; repeating your blinkered viewpoint without considered that people are arguing against you because hey! - they may have a point; and basically being a troll.

How many episode titles have nothing to do with the episode? For all you know, the title was meant to have been written 'the essence of a mighty sword; the power to cut steel, and the breath of all things'. Indicating two separate subjects - steel cutting, the breath - linked by a common factor - the essence part.

Of course you'll reply with something like "Impossible! That interpretation, while no less incorrect than my own, doesn't match up with my opinion, so it's wrong! I shall now repeat myself yet again, ignoring the fact that everyone else's point is based on events and spoken lines from many actual manga translations, while my view is based on ONE word in ONE translation of the title of an episode that could very easily be written to make the episode look good!"

All you are demonstrating is that you cannot defend your point beyond bleating "of ALL THINGS! ALL THINGS!"

Since when is lightning a thing, anyway?
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Old 2006-02-04, 20:59   Link #146
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Hmm, I think Illuyankas put it quite elegantly.
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Old 2006-02-05, 00:18   Link #147
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Luffy, main-character/plot-device, because it's all up to the director.
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Old 2006-02-05, 01:37   Link #148
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Funny how this plot device you speak of didn't seem to exist when Luffy has got his ass handed to him by more than one person. So no, Luffy clearly isn't the strongest in One Piece. Maybe he will be in the future, wouldn't be surprising really, but right now it's a no. Including when the mangaka himself puts down who is the strongest man in the world.
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Old 2006-02-05, 05:55   Link #149
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Phenonmal: You are throwing out all common-sense from the OP world as well.
A Metallic object can not cut through a object that has no physical form. Electricity cannot be cut. Breath or not.


And as for this Episode 119, matter
Regardless of him saying, 'cutting steal or anything else you want' i do not think he had people made of Lighting in mind.

There are limits to what a sword can cut.
If Someone made of wind has a 'breath', does that mean a sword can cut through wind?
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Old 2006-02-05, 15:17   Link #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MihawkXGP
Phenonmal: You are throwing out all common-sense from the OP world as well.
A Metallic object can not cut through a object that has no physical form. Electricity cannot be cut. Breath or not.


And as for this Episode 119, matter
Regardless of him saying, 'cutting steal or anything else you want' i do not think he had people made of Lighting in mind.

There are limits to what a sword can cut.
If Someone made of wind has a 'breath', does that mean a sword can cut through wind?

MihawkXGP, and Neodrag you guys fail to understand when it comes to anime, Logic and common sense are thrown out of the window. The world of One Piece speaks for itself I never knew people can turn into fire, control people like puppets, hell stretch 72 Gomous!. All of you need to realize that it is possible for a swordsman in the world of One Pece to cut anything. The Swordsman himself could cut faster than lighting, like in Naruto Kakashi has a move called Lighting Edge, which he cut lighting with this technique. You guys need to get out of that small minded thinking and have some imagination. You guys have no idea of what Oda is going to do with the swordsman in the world of One Piece. First of all you guys do not know what the strongest swordsman in the world is capable of doing. Mihawk's powers has yet to be seen, He will be used as a measuring stick for all other Swordsman in One Piece. I have no proof if any of the swordsman can cut through lighting or fire, but you guys have no proof if they can't cut it also. So everything remains to be seen we have yet to see the top swordsman like Mihawk or Shanks and we have to see Zoro at his strongest. All I am saying that it is possible and I am asking you guys to think outside the small box your in because this is not real liife it is anime.

Only thing that is for sure in the world of One Piece is that The Strongest Swordsman in the World is Mihawk and The Strongest Man in the World is Whitebeard. No one can defeat Whitebeard not even Ener. Whitebeard is even stronger than someone who has the ability of a Logia fruit Flame Fist Ace. Whitebeard will crush everyone in the World of One piece including your precious logia fruit user Ener.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2006-02-05 at 15:30.
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Old 2006-02-05, 15:35   Link #151
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That's not the point. We KNOW Whitebeard's the strongest. We're saying that Ener is also very strong as well.

Let me put it this way. If Mihawk can cut anything at all...

WHY ISN'T HE THE STRONGEST?!

SURELY, if Mihawk the Wonderful can cut anything in the world, he can defeat Whitebeard? We know he can't. The only way Mihawk can defeat an logia user, also allows him to defeat the Strongest Man in the World, which he can't.

Without that, the order is Whitebeard > Logia users > Swordsmen. Sorry, Mihawk can't defeat Ener. End of bloody story.
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Old 2006-02-05, 15:43   Link #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
That's not the point. We KNOW Whitebeard's the strongest. We're saying that Ener is also very strong as well.

Let me put it this way. If Mihawk can cut anything at all...

WHY ISN'T HE THE STRONGEST?!

SURELY, if Mihawk the Wonderful can cut anything in the world, he can defeat Whitebeard? We know he can't. The only way Mihawk can defeat an logia user, also allows him to defeat the Strongest Man in the World, which he can't.

Without that, the order is Whitebeard > Logia users > Swordsmen. Sorry, Mihawk can't defeat Ener. End of bloody story.
Illuyankas, and where is your proof of all this except for the fact that Whitbeard is the strongest man in the world. Where is your proof that Ener can defeat Mihawk. Where was it said in the anime or manga that Logia fruit users are automatically stronger than him. You are using your own opinions without any proof. I already told you in my last post that I have to see what Mihawk can do with a sword. We can not say Ener will defeat Mihawk because we have not seen Mihawk in action. We can not say that Mihawk will defeat Ener because there is no proof right now. The battle between the seen(Ener) and unseen(Mihawk) should not be debated.

Please Illuyankas, you need to relax and think before you speak.
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Old 2006-02-05, 15:50   Link #153
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I said, in one of my first posts in this thread, something along the lines of until we see more of Mihawk, unless we see proof that he can defeat a logia user, then we have to assume he can't. And my point remains, if he can cut anything, he can kill Whitebeard and is therefore the strongest. Based on what we know, he cannot defeat Ener.
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:05   Link #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
I said, in one of my first posts in this thread, something along the lines of until we see more of Mihawk, unless we see proof that he can defeat a logia user, then we have to assume he can't. And my point remains, if he can cut anything, he can kill Whitebeard and is therefore the strongest. Based on what we know, he cannot defeat Ener.
I will say it again this statement of yours is all speculation. Just because you have not seen Mihawk in action you can not automatically assume that Ener will defeat Mihawk. Based on what you know? You know nothing of Mihawk's abilities, the only thing you know is that he is the strongest Swordman in the world thats all.

Who the hell said that Mihawk can defeat Whitebeard? you said it not me. Mihawk can not defeat Whitebeard, I specifically said in a couple of posts ago that Whitebeard will Smash every living being in One Piece. You are not making any sense and now you are just being ignorant and you are still specualting.

Gold Roger was said to be an outstanding Swordsman, Marksman, and Tactition. I beleive it was episode 49 or 48, the bartender was telling Luffy about his combat skills. It seems to me Gold Roger did not use any devil fruit ability. So what you are saying is that any Logia fruit user can defeat someone who does not have a Logia power?.
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:19   Link #155
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Would you like me to increase the size of the words, "Based on what we know?" That means, We have no proof to the contrary. We can't prove it wrong, yet. YET.

You said 'Zoro, Shanks and Mihawk can cut anything.'
I said 'If Mihawk can cut anything, he can kill Whitebeard. That would make Mihawk the strongest.'
However, Whitebeard is undisputedly the Strongest.
Therefore, Mihawk cannot cut everything. Mihawk cannot cut Ener. MIHAWK CANNOT DEFEAT ENER, except, and this is the important part you are deliberately being foolish about, IF HE DOES STUFF WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET. He hasn't done it yet. Until he does, we have to assume Ener > Mihawk. To do otherwide is the same as saying Coby could beat Ace, or something else as stupid.

Until we know how Gol D. Roger and Whitebeard deal with them, yes they can. They are the most powerful class of fruit for a very good reason.


Is that simple enough for you? Or would you like me to use smaller words?
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:22   Link #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
So something that was in the Manga and anime is just my opinion?. Please reread the Manga or watch some episodes. It will help you out alot for later discussions.
Now you're just being stubborn O.o
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:39   Link #157
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Warning! This post is just speculation on my part and not something I consider to be solid fact.




I'm gonna assume Mihawk can beat Logia users. We just don't which types he has beaten. I mean you don't get hailed as the greatest swordsman in the world and not have some punks down the line who somehow gain logia powers going after him to gain fame for beating the one of the world's greatest because they believe he can't kill them since he's only a swordsman even if he is the world's greatest while they are now elemental forces.

Also whose to say that someone with Enel's powers isn't already on the Blue Sea? I don't recall hearing Devil's Fruit powers are exclusive to one person. I mean Robin pointed out which fruit Enel must of eaten calling it "one of the invincible powers" so one would have to assume that someone with that power already exist there. Yet even with that power we haven't really heard much about this person. Of course that person might be one of the Marine Admirals or even one of the members of the Shichibukai. Yet even with that the best that person can do is the tie with one of the great powers.
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Old 2006-02-05, 16:56   Link #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
Would you like me to increase the size of the words, "Based on what we know?" That means, We have no proof to the contrary. We can't prove it wrong, yet. YET.

You said 'Zoro, Shanks and Mihawk can cut anything.'
I said 'If Mihawk can cut anything, he can kill Whitebeard. That would make Mihawk the strongest.'
However, Whitebeard is undisputedly the Strongest.
Therefore, Mihawk cannot cut everything. Mihawk cannot cut Ener. MIHAWK CANNOT DEFEAT ENER, except, and this is the important part you are deliberately being foolish about, IF HE DOES STUFF WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET. He hasn't done it yet. Until he does, we have to assume Ener > Mihawk. To do otherwide is the same as saying Coby could beat Ace, or something else as stupid.

Until we know how Gol D. Roger and Whitebeard deal with them, yes they can. They are the most powerful class of fruit for a very good reason.

Is that simple enough for you? Or would you like me to use smaller words?
Illuyankas, Now it is clear to me that you are either drunk or out of your mind. I said it was possible that those characters can cut anything. Still it is all speculation on my part and your part. As I said before it is up to Oda himself and I am not ruling anything out. Maybe they can or maybe they can't. I said it remains to be seen. "If Mihawk can cut everything?" that still does not make Mihawk the strongest, as I have said before we are not sure if he can cut everything or has some sort of seastone carved into his sword remains to be seen. Whitebeard is the absolute power, the strongest, Mihawk can not defeat him no living being can. I cleared that up for you can you understand now. I ask you again who said Ener can defeat Mihawk? Mihawk has yet to be seen. Like I said before stop bringing this up, You say "IF HE DOES STUFF WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET"He hasn't done it yet. Until he does, we have to assume Ener > Mihawk. " This is all speculation just because Mihawk has not done something you have not seen is because he did not get the chance to. This is very unfair to Mihawk and his abilities, The battle between the seen(Ener) and unseen(Mihawk) should not be debated. Period.

Now Illuyankas, you are just a fanboy of devil fruit users. How in the hell can Ener Defeat The Strongest man ever in One Piece and Defeat the current most powerful man in the world. They are considered the most powerful in the world for a reason have you forgotten that. Just because a Gold Roger did not use a Devil fruit does not mean a Logia character can defeat him. Have you ever heard of Raw Talent? Talent so raw that they surpass even Devil fruit powers like Speed, Strength, Endurance. These are the most powerful characters in One Piece as said by Oda himself now I know you need to start over with those comments. Gold Roger and Whitebeard will smash Logia fruit users.

I am going to watch the SUPER BOWL!!! Maybe you need to think about what you said.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2006-02-05 at 17:46.
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Old 2006-02-05, 17:57   Link #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phenomenol
Illuyankas, Now it is clear to me that you are either drunk or out of your mind. I said it was possible that those characters can cut anything. Still it is all speculation on my part and your part. As I said before it is up to Oda himself and I am not ruling anything out. Maybe they can or maybe they can't. I said it remains to be seen. "If Mihawk can cut everything?" that still does not make Mihawk the strongest, as I have said before we are not sure if he can cut everything or has some sort of seastone carved into his sword remains to be seen. Whitebeard is the absolute power, the strongest, Mihawk can not defeat him no living being can. I cleared that up for you can you understand now. I ask you again who said Ener can defeat Mihawk? Mihawk has yet to be seen. Like I said before stop bringing this up, You say "IF HE DOES STUFF WE HAVEN'T SEEN YET"He hasn't done it yet. Until he does, we have to assume Ener > Mihawk. " This is all speculation just because Mihawk has not done something you have not seen is because he did not get the chance to. This is very unfair to Mihawk and his abilities, The battle between the seen(Ener) and unseen(Mihawk) should not be debated. Period.

Now Illuyankas, you are just a fanboy of devil fruit users. How in the hell can Ener Defeat The Strongest man ever in One Piece and Defeat the current most powerful man in the world. They are considered the most powerful in the world for a reason have you forgotten that. Just because a Gold Roger did not use a Devil fruit does not mean a Logia character can defeat him. Have you ever heard of Raw Talent? Talent so raw that they surpass even Devil fruit powers like Speed, Strength, Endurance. These are the most powerful characters in One Piece as said by Oda himself now I know you need to start over with those comments. Gold Roger and Whitebeard will smash Logia fruit users.
You are sounding more and more idiotic with every post. I don't know how you do it, especially when you insult me to my face, then state almost exactly what I've said, and AGREE WITH ME ON ALMOST EVERY POINT. Almost.

First, YOU are sure Mihawk can cut everything, as it was the basis of your argument that Mihawk could defeat Ener easily. You repeated it over and over, in almost every post. To say that he couldn't now just to try to defend your current point, well, shows you for the poor debator you are.

Second,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
We KNOW Whitebeard's the strongest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
However, Whitebeard is undisputedly the Strongest.
Don't tell me something I have stated repeatedly has been 'cleared up for me'.

Third, We know that Roger and Whitebeard can beat logia users. We don't know how they do it, or if anyone else can. So, we can assume that no-one else can.

Fourth, this topic is a debate about battles between characters we don't know enough about, and if you don't think we should debate it, then GTFO. Why are you even in a debate forum anyway, if you think we shouldn't debate?

Fifth, I am making suppositions - Oh wait. I'll speak slower, and in idiot talk, so you can understand...

"I know we don't know yet, but we are making L-O-G-I-C-A-L G-U-E-S-S-E-S about it for A-M-U-S-E-M-E-N-T P-U-R-P-O-S-E-S. None of this is real. All of it is speculation. All you have said is mis-understanding my statements - that means G-E-T-T-I-N-G T-H-E-M W-R-O-N-G. I'll summarise them for you!

Whitebeard is the hardest. He can hurt logia users.
Have we seen anyone else hurt logia users? No.
Do we know how Whitebeard hurts logia users? No.
Could Whitebeard be the only person who can hurt logia users? Very likely.
Are we SURE he is the only one? No.
Is the fact we could be wrong very obvious? YES.

This is called logic. L-O-G-I-C. Adults use it when we debate, like in this forum. See? Now you know."


I hope you understand now. If I'd known I was speaking to someone so stupid, I would have done this from the start. Go back to school and learn to speak English, then try to talk with the grownups, OK? OK.
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Old 2006-02-05, 20:37   Link #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuyankas
You are sounding more and more idiotic with every post. I don't know how you do it, especially when you insult me to my face, then state almost exactly what I've said, and AGREE WITH ME ON ALMOST EVERY POINT. Almost.

First, YOU are sure Mihawk can cut everything, as it was the basis of your argument that Mihawk could defeat Ener easily. You repeated it over and over, in almost every post. To say that he couldn't now just to try to defend your current point, well, shows you for the poor debator you are.

Second,


Don't tell me something I have stated repeatedly has been 'cleared up for me'.

Third, We know that Roger and Whitebeard can beat logia users. We don't know how they do it, or if anyone else can. So, we can assume that no-one else can.

Fourth, this topic is a debate about battles between characters we don't know enough about, and if you don't think we should debate it, then GTFO. Why are you even in a debate forum anyway, if you think we shouldn't debate?

Fifth, I am making suppositions - Oh wait. I'll speak slower, and in idiot talk, so you can understand...

"I know we don't know yet, but we are making L-O-G-I-C-A-L G-U-E-S-S-E-S about it for A-M-U-S-E-M-E-N-T P-U-R-P-O-S-E-S. None of this is real. All of it is speculation. All you have said is mis-understanding my statements - that means G-E-T-T-I-N-G T-H-E-M W-R-O-N-G. I'll summarise them for you!

Whitebeard is the hardest. He can hurt logia users.
Have we seen anyone else hurt logia users? No.
Do we know how Whitebeard hurts logia users? No.
Could Whitebeard be the only person who can hurt logia users? Very likely.
Are we SURE he is the only one? No.
Is the fact we could be wrong very obvious? YES.

This is called logic. L-O-G-I-C. Adults use it when we debate, like in this forum. See? Now you know."


I hope you understand now. If I'd known I was speaking to someone so stupid, I would have done this from the start. Go back to school and learn to speak English, then try to talk with the grownups, OK? OK.

Thankyou, you finally understand the difference between fact and speculation. Your logical guesses do not apply tofacts or the anime world.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2006-02-05 at 22:55.
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