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Old 2012-06-07, 01:16   Link #301
SPARTAN 119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molotov_sp View Post
I have been watching animes for quite some time and I have a deep respect for them. However after watching two fine old 80's anime, (legend of the Galactic Heros and Rose of Versailles) it made me find out that anime storylines in general have been having sort of a slump in creativity. None of these cliches are bad by themselves, and in fact lots of them are what make lots of anime series special still I hope anime in general will start getting off thier asses in the creativity department so here is my list in no particular order.

10. Im hoping this aint true but .... Every third working Salaryman in Japan can't Possibly be a skirt lifting pervert!!!
Sure Porn is generally regaurded as a acceptable passtime in Japan, but isn't that supposed to make them less horny during the day? Obviously not according to anime. The only reason for hot chick to walk across the street or take the subway is so they can be accosted by another no name collared pervert and in turn to be rescued by some sort of teenage hero.
Greatest Culprit in recent memory: Tenshi na Konomiki (every 5th episode is another pervert)

9.Japanese: The ultimate survivors ..... errr, not really!
Japanese manga writers are thoroughly convinced that in case of holocost, alien invasion, or demonic invasion, japan will be the only country left standing. Sure they got alotta pluck holding their islands as they showed us in WWII but mostly it was a lost cause. GET OFF YOURSELVES ALREADY! enjoy some new vistas! You dont even need to kiss up to the evil Americans! Here are 3 nations that got some REAL grit.
Russians: They stopped 2 megalomaniacs from taking their country. First Napolean, then Hitler. They didnt even win through tactical genius or superior technology. They won through blood spent, pure and simple.
Britain: Showed us that Quality always beats quantity by spanking two great "Armadas" first in sea when faced up against the spanish armada, then in the air by stopping the German Luftwaffle in the greatest air battle in history. Always outnumbered, never out spirited.
Arabs: Did you know that the middle east used to be green untill wars raveged the landscape permanently? Well the people still live there, and for the most part, they are still fighting.
Greatest Culprit in Recent Memory: Gunparade March (the world tries nukes on aliens then promptly expires except for japan)

8. Earths Greatest Weapons will be weilded by our children .... IF WE WERE ALL FREAKING NUTS.
There never was, never is, and never will be a time when we will create a super weapon to be piloted only by 13 year olds. I'm sorry, but it aint gonna happen. We can barely get by the thought of giving our 13 year olds paintball guns and we sure as hell aint gonna teach um responsiblity by giving them a 50 ton 10 story large robot that can level cities in a single missle salvo! Im sorry, it just aint gonna happen no matter how amazing these children may or may not be!
Greatest Culprit in Recent Memory: Sokyuu no Fafner (13 year olds with lots of angst no less pilot mystical robots)

7.Lets go off to fairy tale land!!!
Alice in Wonderland is sometimes compared to an extremely long and surreal acid trip. So when I see another pre adolescent get transported to another fairy tale land I grimace a little and when I hear the words "never never land" I only can think of Micheal Jackson. Honestly Mangakas, it's time to stop! (this point includes fanciful underground worlds invisible to the real world, I'm talking to you Tokyo Underground)
Greatest Culprit in Recent Memory: Inuyasha (After ranama the creator had a chance to create something truly origional .... he didn't!)

6.Japan has the most toughest gangsters in organized school history!!!
Kind of hard to beleive considering people kill themselves over failed college exams in Japan. If there is anything we know in America, it's that little aisian kids wearing gangster colors, rapping, and swearing their heads off is only one thing: DAMN FUNNY! It was pretty novel to see rough and tough japanese kids back in the day, like in Slam Dunk, but I think the jig is up already and this particular cliche should be put to rest.
Greatest Culprit in Recent Memory: Midori no Hibi (main character beats up gangsters from other schools constantly, apprently they are all just wussbags, HEY JUST LIKE REAL LIFE)

5.Americans in the future are all self absorbed, insensitive, and power hungry!
Cmon I don't need you guys to kiss up to us but as an American, it's disturbing to see people think that we are gonna go the way of the Dodo in the near future. Heck we get enough flack from AMERICAN sci-fi writers as it is. If american somehow does manage to survive we are always trying to cover things up or masscring civilians. Puhleeze Japan, stop acting like the ethnic purgings in Africa are that much more bearable than our screw ups just because we are embarrased about it and they are not! (And you know in reality you love us Japan, and WE LOVE YOU!)
Greatest Culprit in recent Memory: Ghost In the Shell: Standalone Complex (the americans appear in the 1st season twice, and they both aren't glowing reviews)

4.The human body is the most effecient design for future military vehcles!
There is a reason why planes,subs,spacecraft,cars are shaped the way they are. It's because it's the most efficient design for the task they built for. The human body is horribly inefficient, and the only reason we stand on 2 legs was because it frees our hands to do other things, NOT because it allows us to fly, swim, or even travel on land more efficiently. So it is laughable from a design standpoint to see large man shaped robots as the kings of the battlefield. Lets see something truly magnificent and strange in military technology.
Greatest Culprit in recent Memory: Kenran Butoh Sai (If there is anyplace where design is important to increase mobility its IN THE WATER!)

3.Aliens don't just look like humans, THEY ARE ALSO DAMN HOT!!
Look in live action sci-fi shows, the reason all aliens look human is because it's damn expensive to make them look like anything else. I mean in star trek it's alot cheaper to put someone in a rubber costume than make a completely computer generated or animatronic main character alien not to mention the fact that if you dont have a monstrous budget this particular character would look like complete crap next to their real life counterparts. BUT THIS IS ANIMATION. If there is any place to make cool alien characters that REALLY LOOK ALIEN, its in Anime and if it's possible ... please make the most horrendous looking one the GOOD GUY rather than the BAD GUY for a change. This is just a case of complete lapse of creativity.
Greatest culprit in recent memory:WOW i cant think of any at the moment, maybe i can have a little back up in this area, I'm pretty sure it's true though, if not, let me just say i was really grabbing at ideas by this point to reach my goal of 10!

2.Whats better than a sexy hero? A HAREM OF SEXY HEROS!
I'm sorry, this particular cliche is especially disturbing becuase frankly even I dig it sometimes. I mean they are sexy and already half dressed......the only next step to REALLY please the fans is to make them all open lesbiens with eachother (they would all have to be lesbiens because we already have animes where just one of the group has acute homosexual tendencies). Let's just take a tiny step backwards here ... boys can be heros too after all! AS A MALE I DEMAND EQUAL RIGHTS!!!!
Greatest culprit in recent memoryivergence EVE (Look at them, I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THEM ... oh GAWD stop staring will ya?)

1.Japanese History is the only history worth exploring!
This brings me back to old 80's anime. From an old family friend who went to Japan, he said that in the 80s there was a heavy fascination with European culture which is easily refelected in their Anime's. Instead of using that to explore other cultures, like perhaps obscure African or south American folk stories and histories. Animes has actually regressed into, ITS ALL ABOUT JAPAN. Frankly ive been really getting into those film festivals where they showcase foreighn hits. There is some damn good stuff out there, its just a matter of finding them and then putting a good anime spin to it.
Greatest culprit in recent memory:Samurai Champloo (yet another timeless classic in Japanese fuedal period, OH BOY!)

Whoah, I hope you enjoyed my rant. Frankly I liked most of the animes I mentioned. Still as I watch more animes, the similar cliches are becoming more and more obvious. There are probably things that are completely wrong in this list as it is my own impressions on the state of anime and manga stories in general and I havent really watched all of the animes in the world so i cant really be a good critic of them. Still I hope most people agree with at least half of my points and hopefully got a few good laughs out of it too.

If you have any cliches to add that would be cool too!
I have to agree with you on the overuse of mecha, especially when they make them the be all and end all of future warfare. If you actually built a human-shaped fighting platform, it would be easily knocked on its face by a shell for a conventional tank. Really, I see nothing a mecha can do that a tank can't do better. I also agree that under anything resembling normal circumstances, humanity's deadliest weapons would be operated by professional soldiers. The only time I don't mind the "well armed teenager" is when there are plausible reasons for them to be carrying such weapons, for instance Akemi Homura in Madoka (
Spoiler for Madoka spoilers:
and the fact the she is fighting something unknown to normal humans. I also prefer Homura as she uses realistic weapons. As opposed to the average teenage mecha pilot, who is simply pulled out of school one day to operate a 20-story giant robot rather than have a professional soldier drive it.

Also, another thing, why is it that mecha and other super weapons are so often painted a color that give them no camouflage properties, such as red or orange.



Another thing that is overused are overpowered characters. Basically, characters that are immune even to nuclear weapons. Obviously, the Dragonball series are a major offender, and some of the works of Kinoko Nasu (Fate series, Tsukihime), are even more plothax. As for Nasu, I preferred Kara No Kyoukai's heroine, Shiki Ryougi, who has to power to kill anything, destroy any object, etc, but has no extraordinary defensive abilities, if she takes a bullet to the head, she dies. Makes for a more interesting character if their not another boring invincible hero, and the possibility for the "badass normal" character keeps things more interesting.

Related, Power levels and ranking systems are overused, not to mentions people taking whatever game or sport featured in the anime WAY to seriously.
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Old 2012-06-07, 02:20   Link #302
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119 View Post
Related, Power levels and ranking systems are overused, not to mentions people taking whatever game or sport featured in the anime WAY to seriously.
Umm... those so called “game anime” don’t have genuine story to begin with. Their main purpose is to advertise the merchandise and that’s it. The only focus is the game itself and how to make it the most important thing on earth (in the anime). It’s one long advertisement. And how can you make your main character to use/play that so-called game seriously? Of course they use some kind of tournament and level/ranking system. It’s not overused. It’s essential. You can’t have a game-anime without it.

As for sports anime, of course they take the sport very seriously. After all, sport anime tells you the story of a main character who’s pursuing a career/achievement in the specified sport. Do you expect an athlete to climb his/her glory half-assedly? Once again, in the world of sport and tournament-based games, strong will/seriousness and level/ranking system are essential and inevitable. If you say that strong will and ranking system are overused in those, It’s like saying thrill and explosion are overused in action movies.
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Old 2012-06-07, 02:46   Link #303
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2-pig-tailed yellow haired small white girls with ojou personality.
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Old 2012-06-07, 03:05   Link #304
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Spoiler for Size:


You just stormed Japan...
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Old 2012-06-07, 07:45   Link #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirito View Post
The one that's overused most of the time is...The first girl in a harem or love triangle series always wins -_-. I don't mind harems or love triangle romance series, but at least make the outcome not to blatantly obvious to the point where it's laughable.
I totally, totally agree. Very well said!
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Old 2012-06-07, 08:03   Link #306
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1. Hot springs + imminent service episode
2. Beach episode
3. Childhood friend is virtually guaranteed to lose the love battle
4. Relationship Reset SPAM in shoujo titles
5. Generic male + tsundere female combo
6. Clueless harem guy
7. High school teens will save the world - again.
8. Male leads in shounen will get emo.
9. Breasts must defy the laws of physics whenever possible and somehow not leave the character with sagging ones or back pain later on in life...
10. Anime girls can eat as much cake as they want and never gain weight. Sometimes pizza.
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Old 2012-06-07, 08:25   Link #307
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I don't have 10 of them but at least I had some which bothers me most...

1. In shoujo, a plain-looking, regular and unpopular girl meets a handsome but cold-hearted(as if) guy.

2. In shoujo again, girl often stalked by a pervert who basically had a bishi-looking "mask".

3. Ambiguously to obvious gay bishounen in non-yaoi shows

4. Ambiguously to obvious lesbian bishoujo and moe girls in non-yuri shows
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Old 2012-06-07, 08:27   Link #308
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Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119 View Post
I have to agree with you on the overuse of mecha, especially when they make them the be all and end all of future warfare. If you actually built a human-shaped fighting platform, it would be easily knocked on its face by a shell for a conventional tank. Really, I see nothing a mecha can do that a tank can't do better. I also agree that under anything resembling normal circumstances, humanity's deadliest weapons would be operated by professional soldiers. The only time I don't mind the "well armed teenager" is when there are plausible reasons for them to be carrying such weapons, for instance Akemi Homura in Madoka (
Spoiler for Madoka spoilers:
and the fact the she is fighting something unknown to normal humans. I also prefer Homura as she uses realistic weapons. As opposed to the average teenage mecha pilot, who is simply pulled out of school one day to operate a 20-story giant robot rather than have a professional soldier drive it.

Also, another thing, why is it that mecha and other super weapons are so often painted a color that give them no camouflage properties, such as red or orange.



Another thing that is overused are overpowered characters. Basically, characters that are immune even to nuclear weapons. Obviously, the Dragonball series are a major offender, and some of the works of Kinoko Nasu (Fate series, Tsukihime), are even more plothax. As for Nasu, I preferred Kara No Kyoukai's heroine, Shiki Ryougi, who has to power to kill anything, destroy any object, etc, but has no extraordinary defensive abilities, if she takes a bullet to the head, she dies. Makes for a more interesting character if their not another boring invincible hero, and the possibility for the "badass normal" character keeps things more interesting.

Related, Power levels and ranking systems are overused, not to mentions people taking whatever game or sport featured in the anime WAY to seriously.
The guy iis likely gone tho. however, some of his points could have been countered.

#9 can be countered with Hollywood cinema where every alien invasions/disaster movies ends with America saving the day. Every cool things happens in USA, USA is somehow Atlantis/Tir Nan Og/Shangri La etc... Ethnocentrism can be found everywhere, excepted maybe in France who are too busy shitting NTR stories like dogs poops over the streets of Paris /jkbutthatshowIfeelaboutmylocalproduction.

#5. Deal with it. Frenchmen have to put up with being portrayed as smug surrendering cowards. I'd rather have my fellows be portrayed as evil as you are. That'd make me feel less embarassed about my country of adoption's recent history.

#3. Wait you mean it's exclusive to Japan? What about the sci-fi channel originals? Stuff like the great sci-fi franchises?

#2. Good Looking Privates. And attractive hollywood casting. Enough said.

#1. I have lost count of how many times we have explored World War II. I guess that it is the only war worth recalling, right? RIGHT?

PS: Creative bankruptcy is not exclusive to Japan. Seriously, if we get a 5 euros bill each time a french movie director makes a movie about yet another cheating wife/husband, each time a video game company release ANOTHER FPS WITH A GRIZZLY MARINE/SPACE MARINE, each time Hollywood churn out another uninspired remake of a 1980s classic, each time the newest documentary talk about WWII. We CAN pay off the debt of the Euro zone.
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Old 2012-06-07, 08:41   Link #309
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Well, since everyone else is doing it, here are the ten that I can't stand from worst to least bad:

1. The Bully/Thug- laziest excuse for conflict EVER!
2. Oscar-bait Drama- pretty much anything Mari Okada writes
3. Sexist Characters Who Aren’t Funny- Oh where do I begin?
4. Depthless Badass Characters & Yuuji Everyleads- personality-less beta MC or personality-less badass? I don't want either.
5. Cliffhanger Cutaway- They really need to find new ways to withhold information
6. The Slapstick- look at Ken Akamatsu to see how it's done right
7. Overusing Animation Saving Techniques- unavoidable in long-running shonen, but can I get more dynamic directing in the Fate series, please?
8. World-Destroying Motive- Destroying the world really isn't as cracked up as it once was.
9. Pointless CGI- What is up with the PS1 graphics? Can we at least go to PS2?
10. America as Enemies- I know we nuked you, but can you please at least let the French be the enemies for once?

@Sheba Most of the cliches aren't exclusive to anime. But they are in anime, so I get to use them. Also, they don't work very well in other media either.
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Old 2012-06-07, 09:07   Link #310
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Well, it's not like I gonna counter argument every posts. However, OP sounded like an elephant stepped on his attributes so much that I can't help but look at the screen dumbfounded.
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Old 2012-06-07, 09:57   Link #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by molotov_sp View Post
8. Earths Greatest Weapons will be weilded by our children .... IF WE WERE ALL FREAKING NUTS.
This I gotta agree so very, very much. In worst cases they also have severe mental trauma, but there's no therapists to even hear them out.

Wait, that's all of them.

Quote:
5.Americans in the future are all self absorbed, insensitive, and power hungry!
Cmon I don't need you guys to kiss up to us but as an American, it's disturbing to see people think that we are gonna go the way of the Dodo in the near future. Heck we get enough flack from AMERICAN sci-fi writers as it is.
I almost pity America for this, but then I remember how most Hollywood action movies can be summed up as America, F*ck Yeah!, while their enemies are one-dimensional terrorists/nazis/commies/postal workers. So...meh.

Quote:
please make the most horrendous looking one the GOOD GUY rather than the BAD GUY for a change.
Again, the west is equally guilty on this. Avatar wouldn't have raked that much money had the Navi's look like the aliens from District 9.

As for other cliches...the idea that being good at chess instantly means being good at military leadership. No, it's not - in chess there's no fog of war, no concerns of logistics, your soldiers always follow your orders, there's no risk of friendly fire or civilian casualties and both sides start in equal strength.

Also, in a modern setting a general that leads from the front is retarded, not brave.
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Old 2012-06-07, 10:17   Link #312
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Originally Posted by Ending View Post
I totally agree with #8, since I have noticed it too. If the doom is coming (and I don't mean Doom 3), or some huge megalo-sized robot needs a driver, they let out the teens. Always 15-years old. Always.

You forgot only one:

11) If there is a harem, it's the shy guy who gets to lead it. Okay, but when the fellow gets blasted to the orbit every now and then by a bunch of wimpy women and does not even get the idea when boobs are fed down his throat, I would be worried if he was missing something between his legs. Love Hina, Onegai Teacher, and Oh! My Goddess! come to mind easily. I mean: holy jesus! In OMG the hero has 4 Żber-sexy, practically LWO-welcoming goddesess (literally) in his bed, at times in his bath, and still the hero goes like "WAAAH! I'LL CRAP MY PANTS NOW!"

(L like "Legs", W like "Wide..." You can guess what the last word is. )

Just wish they even ONCE made the hero take the iniative and grasp what is being offered. Hope Green Green has the guts...
That's why I like Tenchi Muyo, because it doesn't have a wimpy MC. Sure the girl in it haram are super powerful but he's more super powerful.

And I can forget about rosario to vampire. Sure the main characters weak at first but then it becomes a fucking badass
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Old 2012-06-07, 14:11   Link #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
That's why I like Tenchi Muyo, because it doesn't have a wimpy MC. Sure the girl in it haram are super powerful but he's more super powerful.

And I can forget about rosario to vampire. Sure the main characters weak at first but then it becomes a fucking badass
That's why I also like Issei from High School DxD. He practically lives to see women naked and doesn't get as baffled and embarrassed as most harem leads who see a cute girl naked. Sure there's the problem with the nosebleeds, but at least he's honest and sincere at the fact that he likes sex and the principalities behind it. Like Sugisaki Ken from Seitokai no Ichizon, he desires a harem and the girls he gets are not only hot, but they're really powerful and some comes from respected/feared demon lord nobility.

I read the novels, Issei starts off weak and sooner becomes the most powerful, if not, strongest character in the series.
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Old 2012-06-07, 14:17   Link #314
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I totally, totally agree. Very well said!
That's why I like harems like Shuffle! and Mashiro no Symphony because:

Spoiler for Just in Case:
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Old 2012-06-07, 14:40   Link #315
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
A protagonist suddenly becoming the most powerful because he was born with the blood of some powerful demon, spirit, other overpowered ancestor and it's used as an excuse to win.

It makes me facepalm since at that point you just realized the hero was a slacker with too much talent, and the slap in the face is usually that kind of story stresses the importance of hard work and effort. But apparently it only works if you're the main character... In the majority of cases it just removes the value of the characters' struggle.
I dunno this was done fantastically in Yu Yu Hakusho so it is workable, albeit often it's used more as a conflict resolution device then as a way to transition into a new arc and era of a story.
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Old 2012-06-07, 16:34   Link #316
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
A protagonist suddenly becoming the most powerful because he was born with the blood of some powerful demon, spirit, other overpowered ancestor and it's used as an excuse to win.

It makes me facepalm since at that point you just realized the hero was a slacker with too much talent, and the slap in the face is usually that kind of story stresses the importance of hard work and effort. But apparently it only works if you're the main character... In the majority of cases it just removes the value of the characters' struggle.
Oh yeah, I forgot that one. This one can work, but the protagonist has to have worked towards being better PRIOR to that kind of reveal.
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Old 2012-06-07, 20:23   Link #317
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Though I don't hate this cliche personally but I think it just little bit overused: When our protagonist, usually non-MC, is close to death, he or she will unleash a very effective attack move regardless his or her own condition with his or her last remaining strength. Often happened in shounen fighting shows.
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Old 2012-06-07, 21:25   Link #318
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The tsundere girl imho is an over used cliche.
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Old 2012-06-07, 21:29   Link #319
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Quote:
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The tsundere girl imho is an over used cliche.
No problem if its Rei Kugimiya's the seiyuu...
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Old 2012-06-07, 21:38   Link #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Though I don't hate this cliche personally but I think it just little bit overused: When our protagonist, usually non-MC, is close to death, he or she will unleash a very effective attack move regardless his or her own condition with his or her last remaining strength. Often happened in shounen fighting shows.
I actually don't have a problem with it. Maybe it's because I like using desperation attacks in video games or something, or it's a valid representation of heroism. However, I think the near-100% success rate they have with it is the larger problem.

Too often people go "I put all my life into this!" and wake up fine the next day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I dunno this was done fantastically in Yu Yu Hakusho so it is workable, albeit often it's used more as a conflict resolution device then as a way to transition into a new arc and era of a story.
I feel sort of mixed about it. It was a good conclusion to that arc in YYH but it opened a new can of worms that led to that final arc that I was very mixed about. Still, that particular mangaka, Yoshihiro Togashi, seems pretty unique to me in that he manages to use our so called cliches in a way that it's never boring. Hunter x Hunter which seems to have taken a nod from YYH is a recent example of it.

Yu Yu Hakusho largely avoided these pitfalls, because there was a feeling that Yusuke and co earned their place and abilities through giving it everything they got. But there came a point where even that just wasn't enough, and intervention was needed. And weirdly enough it's one of those stories that end with even more unsurpassed goals that they just aren't able of meeting for a longgg while at least. And then it sorta makes sense.

In the greater picture, I still feel this is why often non-MC protags that don't seem to have the main character gift gain so much popularity such as Vegeta from DBZ even though later on he got trounced so much, or YYH's much more effective Hiei (and in terms of characters this was a really competitive show in terms of who was the most entertaining), or even say Fate Testarossa from Nanoha. Though I guess they are popular for other reasons too...
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Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-06-07 at 21:58.
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