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Old 2003-12-01, 00:34   Link #61
foob
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Quote:
Naruto is surely egotistical... actually he was in the earlier episodes. Not as much now.
Anyways... if you compared them both... Naruto was even more conceited than Sasuke. Yet you notice this about Sasuke and not Naruto. Funny...

Yep... that is what i mean. "It seems funny how people like Shika for being lazy, and yet criticise Sasuke for it."
I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.

It's not whether are you born with power/money/status or born with nothing that decides whether you will succeed later in life. It is the desire and the choices you make to overcome the obstacles you face. Sasuke and Naruto both have challenges to overcome, it's just that Sasuke seems to have chosen the wrong way to do it, while Naruto chooses the right ones.

This supposed anime about "hardwork will get you what you want" may disgust you, but it's not all pretty. Lee and Naruto are likeable because they both have no talent, and was so disappointed earlier in life, but were shown the way by Gai and Iruka respectively. And they decide to work hard to get what they want. Everybody wants the underdog to win. I see Lee working hard all his life just to end up crippled by Gaara who was born with the sand priest in him. No not everything will go well for people just because they work hard, but it sure will go better than for people that sit on their ass and dream.

People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.

Holy shit I say a lot of shit.
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Old 2003-12-01, 00:44   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzurial
Yeah, I dont think revenge and tight-ass have to necessarily go hand in hand, but in Sasuke's case he has to take revenge against his own brother. Hes probably had to force all feelings aside so that hes eventually capable of that, and in turn hes become quite an unaproachable and detached person. I dunno, it seems like hes done a lot of brooding and mix that with loneliness you can become quite a dark person.

ANYway! I dont know what Im talking about, I really only like sasuke cuz he has cool hair! ah-mazing!
lol, i made a thread about the people in naruto's hair.
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Old 2003-12-01, 02:09   Link #63
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foob
I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.
I don't even know when Sasuke sacrafices his friends for power? Tell me when? He just thinks they'll get in his way, but he doesn't kill his friends to get power.
Spoiler:


Quote:
It's not whether are you born with power/money/status or born with nothing that decides whether you will succeed later in life. It is the desire and the choices you make to overcome the obstacles you face. Sasuke and Naruto both have challenges to overcome, it's just that Sasuke seems to have chosen the wrong way to do it, while Naruto chooses the right ones.
What are you talking about? There is no right way to do something. When you do it you do it. You can kill a man with a knife or a gun, either way you kill him. a gun is just easier.
Spoiler:


Quote:
People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.
Tree training? That seems pretty hard work. he's using his brain and talent he could probably beat haku and his demon mirrors without any kiyubi powers.
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Old 2003-12-01, 03:32   Link #64
EliteJounin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foob
I don't see how you can say Naruto is conceited? He doesn't believe he can be hokage right now. He just believes he can be Hokage in the future, because he is willing to work hard for it. I see nothing wrong with that. He recognizes that he isn't very strong, and doesn't have any talent, but hey, that doesn't stop him from working towards his goal without sacrificing what he believes is right. Unlike Sasuke, who sacrifices his friends for more power.
Okay... first of all, your... er... "thesis" is a bit off.
I said... Naruto WAS even more conceited. If you have been taught correctly. That "was" is past tense. So, obviously that means in the past. And yes... he really was conceited in the beginning. As for Sasuke, i dont think he sacrifices his friends to gain power. There has not been an episode that i have watched that shows him back-stabbing his friends.
And of course, Naruto's goal is to become Hokage. I agree with that.

[QUOTE]This supposed anime about "hardwork will get you what you want" may disgust you, but it's not all pretty. Lee and Naruto are likeable because they both have no talent, and was so disappointed earlier in life, but were shown the way by Gai and Iruka respectively. And they decide to work hard to get what they want. Everybody wants the underdog to win. I see Lee working hard all his life just to end up crippled by Gaara who was born with the sand priest in him. No not everything will go well for people just because they work hard, but it sure will go better than for people that sit on their ass and dream.[QUOTE]

To be honest, i love the idea of "hardwork will get you what you want."
You cant really say that Rock Lee has talent. He does have talent.

[QUOTE]People like Shika because he uses his brains. Shika is not lazy, his goal is just to have an easy, simple life and that's what he's doing. Sasuke has both brains and talent and uses neither to reach his goal. Now that's lazy. If sasuke use the same amount of energy Naruto has expended on learning the summoning jutsu, the rasengen, and pretty much just staying on top of gamabunta, he would be a lot more powerful than now. His training with Kakashi wasn't detailed, so I can't say much, but it seems that's the only time he has trained so seriously.

Shikamaru is lazy. That is a fact. Although in a very cool way. You say he isnt because you like him. People who like... well... whatever tend to defend their beliefs. And he uses his brains only when he is pressured to. Otherwise he doesnt need to use it or doesnt bother to. His personality attracts anyone. Just like Sasuke's attracts anyone or doesnt.
And I agree with aahhsin. Sasuke uses his brains and his talent.
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Old 2003-12-01, 05:01   Link #65
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
There is no right way to do something. When you do it you do it. You can kill a man with a knife or a gun, either way you kill him. a gun is just easier.
This is true. Dead is dead.

Spoiler:


True. I wouldn't go for him b/c he'll put the curse seal on you to make you his b*tch for life, but that's just me.

Spoiler:

Unproven
Spoiler:

Unproven
Spoiler:

Unproven
Spoiler:


So...because he SAID he's better that makes it so? Like if I SAID I was better than you that would automatically make it true? That's just trash-talk.

Spoiler:


Back on topic: Sasuke is scared. As he realizes his inadequacies (as a NINJA), he doesn't like it one bit. He's not ALLOWED to be cocky anymore.

Spoiler:


But he KNOWS he's on a path/journey which will only lead to unhappiness. He realizes that with the death of his brother, he will be the last Uchiha (that we know of, there might have been girls in the family that married out - extended cousins?) and the chances of restoring his clan are pretty low. It's not like they're scattered across the country - they're DEAD.
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:09   Link #66
Lee-pimp
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let me clear up the whole shika thing ok

shika is lazy because he says in the manga and this isnt really a spoiler because it doesnt have an impact on the story well he says
i just want to lead an average life as a normal chuunin with a nice wife and family and die of old age

with his talent he can accomplish all of that while still being lazy so it doesnt have an effect on his goal while sasuke needs to get stonger and cant really be lazy so shika is lazy but it doesnt matter and sasuke is lazy and it matters that is why sasuke is disliked for being lazy

and about the oro-jiraiya thing
Spoiler:
so sasuke would have been better off staying at home and training with naruto or kakashi to get stronger insted of
Spoiler:


ok well that was long but hopefully it will silence some arguments on sasukes side i still remain with my original sasuke is a gay prick who thinks hes better then everyone else and really isnt
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:27   Link #67
p3psi
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HOw can you not like Oro's future "alter boy"????
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:34   Link #68
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ahhh p3psi thats a great pun "alter boy" people are going to think it was a spelling error, but i get your joke, dont worry ;-)
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:39   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-pimp
so sasuke would have been better off staying at home and training with naruto or kakashi to get stronger insted of
Spoiler:


ok well that was long but hopefully it will silence some arguments on sasukes side i still remain with my original sasuke is a gay prick who thinks hes better then everyone else and really isnt
I have to disagree with you there, Lee-pimp-san.
Spoiler:
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:39   Link #70
p3psi
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gee, thanks dragon boy! i can always count on you! oh, did you check your pm box? please get back to me asap, this is going to be fun! +D
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Old 2003-12-01, 18:55   Link #71
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:03   Link #72
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Where did you see Sasuke being lazy?
When he was in the coma in a hospital's bed?

This is exactly the annoying thing in the Sasuke's haters (and ponctually on some other characters too) they try to built some poor excuses to explain their hate.
If you say : I hate Sasuke, I dunno really why but I hate him, or because you don't like the stereotype of the dark avenger or whatever, well okey, fine, you can't like all the characters.

But stop inventing thing.
lol seriously I hate Sasuke because he's lazy
Get real 3 secondes please.

Sasuke is about the same level of Neji without using his seal, the only genins better than him are Gaara and Naruto, not because they work harder, but because they have a demon inside them.
Lee was the only ninja who could only counpt on his hardwork.
And he lost.

Hardwork<Genious<Demon.
Maybe sad, but true.

Each time the manga has shown Sasuke training, he was serious, both Naruto and him trained all the nights for the tree thing and
Spoiler:


So Sasuke lazy? lol try something else.

And for the Oro/Jiraiya point.

Spoiler:
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:03   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
Spoiler:
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:10   Link #74
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:16   Link #75
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Well i dislike sasuke a bit cause i donīt like people with those attitudes like him.
Those people will only loose more in the end than what they had expected. Ok i can understand why his hole life is cirkled around vengance. Still....At what cost?

[Spoiler]If heīs not carefull enough heīs going to become MJ:s b*tch and not being able to fullfil his ambitions[\spoiler]
Thats why i dislike his character...those characters like him in general that is. They donīt see what they can loose. And even if they do...they donīt care....seing people give up on life for something like revenge is one of the dumbest thing i can think of and dislikes.

That is my reason. (If you wanna flame me...Who cares? I donīt like him and thats that.)
Just my opinion.

Edit: OMg....i havent posted up in such a ,ong time i have forgotten how to make a proper spoiler tag........*bangs head on deskboard*
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:20   Link #76
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:26   Link #77
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Originally Posted by Dryad
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:27   Link #78
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:34   Link #79
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Old 2003-12-01, 19:41   Link #80
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