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Old 2004-08-11, 13:00   Link #1041
Tron Bonne
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
Hmmm let's see




"I can believe Sasuke's character." - wuhohz ... there it is.

Is it possible that maybe and, please feel free to tell me if this is too outrageous, that someone else might find Naruto to have more character, because THEY find more life in him?


In the same way I can just as easily make a quick list, in the same format as yours, of reasons to show how Sasuke would have less character.



Example of what someone might say about Sasuke ^


It all winds down to the flaws you conviniently forget about your character to show how much more the other one sucks because you simply don't like the other's character traits.
I can compare Sasuke to a ton of other characters too, if you like. Let's see, Mi-chan from FoR, Kuri from FoR, Heero from GW, Jubei from GB, Killa from HxH and many more. The point I was making was to say Sasuke is just a basic boring copy and not Naruto is wrong. I like both Sasuke and Naruto, both have their own charcter temperments that make them their own character. Naruto's only problem is a problem most leads suffer from and that is the perfect flaw. Their character should have many flaws, like Naruto's cocky temper, his act first think later way of life should have consequences but they never do. Neji has a cocky temper, he gets a beating from the loser and humbled. Naruto had this terrible life, yet he is able to cope easily, but Gaara, Neji and Sasuke can't.
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:07   Link #1042
angelic_halo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne
I can compare Sasuke to a ton of other characters too, if you like. Let's see, Mi-chan from FoR, Kuri from FoR, Heero from GW, Jubei from GB, Killa from HxH and many more. The point I was making was to say Sasuke is just a basic boring copy and not Naruto is wrong. I like both Sasuke and Naruto, both have their own charcter temperments that make them their own character. Naruto's only problem is a problem most leads suffer from and that is the perfect flaw. Their character should have many flaws, like Naruto's cocky temper, his act first think later way of life should have consequences but they never do. Neji has a cocky temper, he gets a beating from the loser and humbled. Naruto had this terrible life, yet he is able to cope easily with, but Gaara, Neji and Sasuke can't.
i dont relly think dat u should diss gaara coz it isnt his fault dat he is so crazy, coz he cant sleep wiv d sand monster inside him he has insomnia n if he does sleep usin d fake sleep jutsu his personality gets eaten.. so it isnt gaara's fault dat he cant cope..
also even though gaara had siblings he was isolated from dem n his own father tries constantly to kill him.. it's not a suprise dat he only loves himself... but afta d fite wiv naruto he stops bein so mean 2 temarin his brotha....


newayz sasuke is jus stupid he pretends 2 b all cool n f3thing even though he saved naruto he tries n act d hero but at d end it's always naruto saving his sorry behind...
but still sakura is like omg u saved me i love u... plz give me a break sakura should get wiv rock lee....
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:08   Link #1043
neodrag38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne
I take you just don't watch much anime, do you? It doesn't have to be a carbon copy to have the same BASIC story. Geez, Poke'Mon is dang close to Naruto. The lead boy had no father, the people saw him as the loser compared to his rival. He's head strong, loud and an airhead. He tells everyone he will become the "greatest Poke'Mon trainer ever" just like how Naruto says he'll become the "greatest hokage EVER." It's scary how much they are alike. You at Flames of Recca, Recca can be very close to Naruto. Look at Gon from Hunter x Hunter. Look at Haru from rave, I could go on and on. I'm not saying Naruto is a carbon copy, but to say Sasuke is a clone and somehow Naruto isn't is just wrong. I like Naruto, I think he is a good character. The only problem I have with him is his flawlessness. Those battles, if you can even call then that, weren't REAL fights. Plus, you could only name 3, how many battles has he been in? Naruto with Oro, he didn't beat Oro, but he did defeat the snake. Naruto never loses his fights. How many fights have Sasuke lost, and even admited he could beat someone? Sasuke has more of a human side. He's not perfect, he doesn't ALWAYS get the perfect ending like Naruto. Naruto should have a human side, he should lose, but he doesn't.
Your comparison between Pokemon and Naruto doesn't make sense since the situation with Naruto is that he isn't just seen as a loser but his hated and not acknowledged by everyone one in the village. They don't just compare him to a single rival, he's considered the lowest of personal and social standing in the whole entire village.

I also hope that you realize that Naruto defeating lower snake summon isn't exactly much of an accomplishment. And those were real fights based on the fact there was a clear loser and a winner with the fact you can't call someone much of a winner when the first 12 years of their life is a living hell and has constantly watch their back for the rest of their lives more than any other shinobi should have to.

You should also be grateful that Naruto has won most of his battles since some of those battles would have resulted in your favorite character Sasuke no longer being able to exist.

Sasuke also is the one who makes so that he doesn't get the perfect ending while Naruto will never have a one hunderd perfect ending based on the fact his existance is always seen as a constant and future burden for his village while everyone sees Sasuke as the perfect prodigy who can only make things better for Konoha.
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:16   Link #1044
Tron Bonne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neodrag38
Your comparison between Pokemon and Naruto doesn't make sense since the situation with Naruto is that he isn't just seen as a loser but his hated and not acknowledged by everyone one in the village. They don't just compare him to a single rival, he's considered the lowest of personal and social standing in the whole entire village.

I also hope that you realize that Naruto defeating lower snake summon isn't exactly much of an accomplishment. And those were real fights based on the fact there was a clear loser and a winner with the fact you can't call someone much of a winner when the first 12 years of their life is a living hell and has constantly watch their back for the rest of their lives more than any other shinobi should have to.

You should also be grateful that Naruto has won most of his battles since some of those battles would have resulted in your favorite character Sasuke no longer being able to exist.

Sasuke also is the one who makes so that he doesn't get the perfect ending while Naruto will never have a one hunderd perfect ending based on the fact his existance is always seen as a constant and future burden for his village while everyone sees Sasuke as the perfect prodigy who can only make things better for Konoha.
I didn't see any of the other young ones being able to beat the snake. Also, when Naruto beat the snake he was a lot weaker than he is now, so yes, it was a big win. The Poke'mon lead was looked at as the town loser, though not hated, he was looked down upon opposed to his rival. On the first ep when he is leaving no one is there to see him off, besides his mom and the doc who gave him his Poke'mon. The rest of the town is giving his rival a parade. Naruto is very much like the Poke'mon lead. Naruto was never always alone, he always had his teacher and the 3rd never mistreated him. I grow sick of people saying Naruto never had anyone.
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:27   Link #1045
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tron Bonne
Naruto had this terrible life, yet he is able to cope easily, but Gaara, Neji and Sasuke can't.
You just listed the exact reason why many Naruto fanboys love him.

See what I mean?

The trait that you hate in Naruto glorifies him in the eyes of so many other people.

It might be that they want to love a superhuman hero who does not suffer from the emotional handicaps that come up in real life situations ... they don't like to see the hip guy who can use sharingan and do chidori make mistakes a typical angsty teenager in real life would make ... They don't want to see him slap a plate of apples from a girl's hand just because he is getting his mood swings like a real boy would do...

There is just so many factors and reasons why people might not like Sasuke. Half of the thought process might be subconsious and basically unlistable.
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:31   Link #1046
Tron Bonne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
You just listed the exact reason why many Naruto fanboys love him.

See what I mean?

The trait that you hate in Naruto glorifies him in the eyes of so many other people.

It might be that they want to love a superhuman hero who does not suffer from the emotional handicaps that come up in real life situations ... they don't like to see the hip guy who can use sharingan and do chidori make mistakes a typical angsty teenager in real life would make ... They don't want to see him slap a plate of apples from a girl's hand just because he is getting his mood swings like a real boy would do...

There is just so many factors and reasons why people might not like Sasuke. Half of the thought process might be subconsious and basically unlistable.
That is so true, lol. I like Naruto, I think he's a cute character, I just hate it when good characters become the basic flawless hero.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:00   Link #1047
Shadamehr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu
Sasuke isnt the secondary character because he is hogging everybodys spotlight. Its the otehr way round. He is "hogging" some of the spotlight because of the fact that from day 1 it was made clear that Sasuke was the second character.
I guess this is a matter of interpretation, but I don't see it that way. At first introduction, there was no indication that he'd be any more special than Sakura, Kakashi, Iruka, etc. etc. He became the secondary main character just because Kishimoto liked him and his backstory a lot and developed it moreso than everyone else's.

In any case, that's not a big factor in why I dislike him, after all somebody was bound to get a lot of emphasis. It's mainly the stealing of cool stuff from other characters.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:03   Link #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadamehr
I guess this is a matter of interpretation, but I don't see it that way. At first introduction, there was no indication that he'd be any more special than Sakura, Kakashi, Iruka, etc. etc. .
The chapter he got to himself wasn't clear enough to you? Or how about the fact that he outshined both Naruto & Sakura at first?
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:07   Link #1049
VMLM3
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One of the reasons I liked Naruto at the beginning was because of how human Naruto was. I mean it, reread the first chapters of the manga, rewatch the first episodes of the anime, you'll see Naruto isn't perfect, he's scared, he's not really the main character (as was pointed out earlier, everything seems to be revolving around the sharingan, not Naruto.), he's second best. I mean, at one point he has to force himself not to run away in panic against Zabuza. Unfortuantely this changed, maybe I didn't see it coming because I'm new to anime, and all main characters in this type of series end up going the way of DBZ. Tron Bone is right, now Naruto is pretty much the perfect stereotypical copy of a young comic book hero. Sasuke however never lost his depth, he remains the main character. That's right, remains; he is, and always has been, at the center of Naruto's plotline. If you ask me Sasuke, as a character (created person, with intentions, problems, personality, etc.), is great, as complete a creation as any author would like. The thing is, if you look at Sasuke as a person, he can be hateful, he's weak minded and unstable, he's egotistical and selfish, full of hatred and cold. Apart from that many people can't identify with an impersonal, cold hearted character, not to mention his being described as both a genius and the most popular kid in school don't help him much.
Just felt I had to give my two cents on the matter
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:25   Link #1050
evil|plushie
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Because he's an ass -_- Seriously, all the people going on about how sasuke is the most realistic character or something needs to think about whether they would want to spend time with someone like Sasuke in real life. >.>

If Sasuke was real, he'd probably be dragged into god knows how many toilets and beaten up -_-. He has this whole 'im the only one suffering' mentality going on that I really hate in people. It's understandable if sometimes you're an asshole, because nobody can be perfect, but I've never once seen Sasuke apologise for being an ass.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:26   Link #1051
tramadrama
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Hogging the Spotlight?

How can anyone hog the spotlight? You have to make Sasuke the main focus first. The stronger Sasuke is, the stronger Naruto becomes. Right now, Sasuke supercedes Naruto in all but stamina. Stamina can be the determining factor of any fight. But since Sasuke has better control of chakra; has the sharingan, and taijutsu and more ninjutsu knowledge than Naruto, this makes Sasuke = Measuring Point. You want the rival to get as strong as possible so the main character can try to reach him/her. But one thing that I like, Kishimoto got to capture a DEVELOPED rival. A lot of anime out there doesn't give the rival the props that they deserve. I think we only got to see Vegeta once as a child; Knives' character wasn't all that either; not to mention Lucious character. I'm not knocking that they are great characters, just not thorough. Sasuke is about as thorough as a character can get. We get:

Who he is and why he is in Naruto

What he is and his origin

When he's going to show up (it's a damn shame how we have to wait sometimes to see who the rival is. Sometimes it's near the last episode)?

Where his ambition lie and why?

Finally, How he is going to acheive it.

Sasuke is an awesome rival and I hope that his strength causes Naruto to get stronger. Every one that hates Sasuke (I just don't like him), have to admit that although he may bite, he is honestly, far from a secondary character. He is equal to Naruto in importance. Sakura is a secondary character.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:34   Link #1052
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
Because he's an ass -_- Seriously, all the people going on about how sasuke is the most realistic character or something needs to think about whether they would want to spend time with someone like Sasuke in real life. >.>

If Sasuke was real, he'd probably be dragged into god knows how many toilets and beaten up -_-. He has this whole 'im the only one suffering' mentality going on that I really hate in people. It's understandable if sometimes you're an asshole, because nobody can be perfect, but I've never once seen Sasuke apologise for being an ass.
If Sasuke was real, he'll kick the living shit out of anyone that tries to beat him up. Lets even take off his fire jutsu, he can fight, and knows how too. And why would anyone want to beat someone up when they barely do anything but walk around and doesn't say a thing to anyone?

At lunch he'll sit by himself in the corner, where nobody talks or looks at him. Nobody bothers a guy like that. You don't bother me I dont' bother you. Naruto on the other hand, he'll get on my nerves if he was real. Hell I know a guy that was loud mouthed and abnoxious, and man did he piss me off.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:39   Link #1053
evil|plushie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin
If Sasuke was real, he'll kick the living shit out of anyone that tries to beat him up. Lets even take off his fire jutsu, he can fight, and knows how too. And why would anyone want to beat someone up when they barely do anything but walk around and doesn't say a thing to anyone?

At lunch he'll sit by himself in the corner, where nobody talks or looks at him. Nobody bothers a guy like that. You don't bother me I dont' bother you. Naruto on the other hand, he'll get on my nerves if he was real. Hell I know a guy that was loud mouthed and abnoxious, and man did he piss me off.
.......................I have no idea whether this post is delusional or not, but Sasuke won't be able to kick the ever-loving shit out of everyone because like it or not, in reality, Sasuke would not be a leet uber ninja. -_- He could try doing his Shishi rendan, but I think he'd just break his spine.

Hmm, I'd love if it Sasuke did that in the manga too, but unfortunately, he's too active in the manga which make his jerk side really show. If he just sat in the corner, didnt talk to anyone, didnt say anything to anyone , i'd like him much more than I do right now. Mostly because he'd be the manga equivalent of a wallflower or a cardboard cutout.

Btw, you're a fangirl aren't you?
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:48   Link #1054
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
.......................I have no idea whether this post is delusional or not, but Sasuke won't be able to kick the ever-loving shit out of everyone because like it or not, in reality, Sasuke would not be a leet uber ninja. -_- He could try doing his Shishi rendan, but I think he'd just break his spine.

Hmm, I'd love if it Sasuke did that in the manga too, but unfortunately, he's too active in the manga which make his jerk side really show. If he just sat in the corner, didnt talk to anyone, didnt say anything to anyone , i'd like him much more than I do right now. Mostly because he'd be the manga equivalent of a wallflower or a cardboard cutout.

Btw, you're a fangirl aren't you?
Calm down sir.

Even if we are going to a real life situation it is still assumed that he is # rookie. As in strongest in class. As in ... let's not mess with this guy ...
Don't change the situation to better fit your opinion.

And he's right, Sasuke would just keep to himself.

But once you get Sasuke in a situation where he is now forced to interact with the other characters ... that's when he becomes just as much of a pain.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:48   Link #1055
aahhsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
.......................I have no idea whether this post is delusional or not, but Sasuke won't be able to kick the ever-loving shit out of everyone because like it or not, in reality, Sasuke would not be a leet uber ninja. -_- He could try doing his Shishi rendan, but I think he'd just break his spine.

Hmm, I'd love if it Sasuke did that in the manga too, but unfortunately, he's too active in the manga which make his jerk side really show. If he just sat in the corner, didnt talk to anyone, didnt say anything to anyone , i'd like him much more than I do right now. Mostly because he'd be the manga equivalent of a wallflower or a cardboard cutout.

Btw, you're a fangirl aren't you?
Ok... Fine. For the sake of arguing. Lets assume nobody knows how to fight and only has their personality.

Still stands, nobody will bother someone like Sasuke. Hell nobody will actually knows he existed. Only some rediculously smart quiet guy that's really mean that'll just be a total loner.

As for Naruto, anyone ever met a loud abnoxious jerk that keeps claiming he's better then you? Now that's annoying.

What makes you think I'm a fangirl?

Last edited by aahhsin; 2004-08-11 at 15:11.
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Old 2004-08-11, 14:57   Link #1056
evil|plushie
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I am calm. -_- . I mean seriously, #1 rookie or not, in real life, there's still only so much the human body can do. And I do think sasukes the kind of guy who would get groups of people showing up to beat him up or bully him. But that's not the point anyway of the thread.

Naruto never claims he's better than anyone. He just says stuff like he won't lose, or he will become future hokage. That's his dream, his determination -_-. It's the same way Sasuke doesn't like losing to anyone because he wants to become stronger. The only difference is that naruto is a lot more vocal about his desire and determination. Often at the wrong times -_-

Heck, naruto even told Neji that he could break free of his destiny at the end of their fight because Neji wasn't a loser like him. Does that sound like someone who thinks hes better than people?
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Old 2004-08-11, 15:00   Link #1057
kireida_kisu
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Smile Sasuke not so bad?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelic_halo
i dont relly think dat u should diss gaara coz it isnt his fault dat he is so crazy, coz he cant sleep wiv d sand monster inside him he has insomnia n if he does sleep usin d fake sleep jutsu his personality gets eaten.. so it isnt gaara's fault dat he cant cope..
also even though gaara had siblings he was isolated from dem n his own father tries constantly to kill him.. it's not a suprise dat he only loves himself... but afta d fite wiv naruto he stops bein so mean 2 temarin his brotha....


newayz sasuke is jus stupid he pretends 2 b all cool n f3thing even though he saved naruto he tries n act d hero but at d end it's always naruto saving his sorry behind...
but still sakura is like omg u saved me i love u... plz give me a break sakura should get wiv rock lee....
hehe i agree with you about the Sakura part! its so annoying the way Ino and Sakura aruge over Sasuke!! Really don't know why people prefer 'cool' people.
Naruto and Rock Lee are much cuter and actually talks to you properly!!
While Sasuke keeps a cool manner towards everyone. I know about he's angry and wants revenge but that doesn't give him the excuse to be mean to other people. I think he should stop the whole 'i hate the world and the world hates me' attitude.
To be honest I don't actually hate Sasuke, he is a good skillful character but i really think he should change his attitude towards people who actually care for him.
!!!Please be nice Sasuke!!!
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Old 2004-08-11, 15:05   Link #1058
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
.......................I have no idea whether this post is delusional or not, but Sasuke won't be able to kick the ever-loving shit out of everyone because like it or not, in reality, Sasuke would not be a leet uber ninja. -_- He could try doing his Shishi rendan, but I think he'd just break his spine.

Hmm, I'd love if it Sasuke did that in the manga too, but unfortunately, he's too active in the manga which make his jerk side really show. If he just sat in the corner, didnt talk to anyone, didnt say anything to anyone , i'd like him much more than I do right now. Mostly because he'd be the manga equivalent of a wallflower or a cardboard cutout.

Btw, you're a fangirl aren't you?
Have you ever met one those people who if you pissed them off wouldn't hesitate grabbing a baseball bat and pummeling you with it or breaking a glass bottle at the beginning of a fight. Have you ever met one of those people who fights like a goddamn maniac, that bites and pulls at your mouth and nose and kicks your testicles repeatedly whenever he can? That's probably the kind of person Sasuke would turn out as if he where real.
Like ahhsin said, if he where real he'd be an aggressive loner. The first thing most people would say about him after meeting him would be 'what the hell is his problem?'. You're right, as a person Sasuke is hateful. That doesn't take away from his being a very well made character.
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Old 2004-08-11, 15:10   Link #1059
evil|plushie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
Have you ever met one those people who if you pissed them off wouldn't hesitate grabbing a baseball bat and pummeling you with it or breaking a glass bottle at the beginning of a fight. Have you ever met one of those people who fights like a goddamn maniac, that bites and pulls at your mouth and nose and kicks your testicles repeatedly whenever he can? That's probably the kind of person Sasuke would turn out as if he where real.
Like ahhsin said, if he where real he'd be an aggressive loner. The first thing most people would say about him after meeting him would be 'what the hell is his problem?'. You're right, as a person Sasuke is hateful. That doesn't take away from his being a very well made character.

Actually I can imagine Sasuke doing all the above except the last. Somehow I doubt he could lower himself or his dignity to that...but then again, I suspect other people know how to carry baseball bats too -_- and break glass bottles. Of course, I haven't lived where you lived so maybe the people there are a bit ...hmmm...

Well made character or not is up to opinion. But anyway, that's just my reason for not liking Sasuke, because well-made character or not, he is still an ass. -_-
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Old 2004-08-11, 15:29   Link #1060
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie
Well made character or not is up to opinion. But anyway, that's just my reason for not liking Sasuke, because well-made character or not, he is still an ass. -_-
Yep same here.

But think of it from the point of view of someone who doesn't like Naruto's annoying rants and loves the guy that's going to belittle him. "wow that guy is such an ass ... and I'M loving it"
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