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Old 2004-09-05, 17:18   Link #21
atua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf
What I dislike a lot (in both this and s1e11) is the seeming insistence on a coherent time line that finds its way to make unnecessary lines. The best example I can think of: around 14min into this episode, Sei sits by the window and comments "that day, it was really quiet at the Rose Mansion," as if we couldn't see it ourselves. >_< I like hearing Sei and Shimako's reflections (and a lot of them are quite sharp), but sometimes the sentences just drag without any definite purpose. I guess I'm just too much a fan of silence and suggestion in movies/TV programs.
Yes, I admit the sort of lines like the example you gave above do seem a bit redundant. I suppose it might've been there to set the mood, but I agree that often silence/or an appropriate soundtrack are more effective in this regard. I also agree that the Goronta scene could've have been handled more delicately as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf
Although, there was a small revelation I had regarding the ending after a second viewing: I was so distraught after hearing the cheesy "new Rosa Gigantea" talk that I missed Shimako's line, "just call me by my name," which has a much, much more personal touch and makes the conclusion a lot more powerful.
You'll like part two of the name saga with Noriko in Ep 9 then, if you haven't seen it already.
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Old 2004-09-06, 02:47   Link #22
Göönk
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You're very lucky to have the time to analyse if a sentence is ok or off topic or anything. I have to listen to japanese & translate the sub to french
Maybe I should watch the series twice?
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Old 2004-09-06, 11:29   Link #23
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Watching the series only twice ?

Heretic.

Last edited by Ialdaboth; 2004-09-06 at 14:27.
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Old 2004-09-07, 22:43   Link #24
mantidor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ialdaboth
Watching the series only twice ?

Heretic.
I see each episode only once am I the worst? I only watch it once since I think that repeating an episode or a movie makes you focus on little things that arent that important and is easy to lost the general story, and I couldnt dare to do that ^_^

I dont have a lot to say about this episode except that it was great!
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Old 2004-09-08, 01:46   Link #25
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Göönk
You're very lucky to have the time to analyse if a sentence is ok or off topic or anything. I have to listen to japanese & translate the sub to french
Maybe I should watch the series twice?
I wish I could just listen to only the Japanese or be able to translate anything. Really though, most of what I say is simply my own biased opinion; and after you've done my amount of badmouthing movies/books/etc. it takes less than two seconds to say what you don't like about an anime, while trying hard to sound smart. It would take me longer to translate one sentence to French than for me to type up all the messages I've posted on this board.

Overall, Marimite is neither a terribly complex nor very subtle show. Like most shoujo titles, its strength is in the atmosphere and the mood, and to a certain extent the appeal of its characters. That is why its important to ensure that every dialogue, character movement and visual effect combine to maximize the emotional impact of the show (which is why I like to nitpick the small details).

I've only watched the Sei episodes a few times, obviously because of my Sei obsession. The rest I I've watched only once like many.
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Old 2004-09-08, 16:41   Link #26
Sweets Yumi
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I just started watching the episode.


Wow! Youko and Eriko are really terrible to do that to Shimako!!!

If I had been asked to the mansion then attacked like that then shown the door, I would have thought the Rose Mansion and all it's roses were disgusting and mean and would avoid them for the rest of my time at Lillian.

In fact I would have run out crying, I wouldn't even have been able to be 'lead out' by Eriko.


Whatever Seis feelings are are Sei's feelings alone, Eriko and Youko had no right to interfere and no right to do that to Shimako! No right!


I feel so shocked over this whole scene that I stopped watching the episode.
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Old 2004-09-08, 17:36   Link #27
MikoKikyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
I just started watching the episode.


Wow! Youko and Eriko are really terrible to do that to Shimako!!!

If I had been asked to the mansion then attacked like that then shown the door, I would have thought the Rose Mansion and all it's roses were disgusting and mean and would avoid them for the rest of my time at Lillian.

In fact I would have run out crying, I wouldn't even have been able to be 'lead out' by Eriko.


Whatever Seis feelings are are Sei's feelings alone, Eriko and Youko had no right to interfere and no right to do that to Shimako! No right!


I feel so shocked over this whole scene that I stopped watching the episode.
I agree that Eriko and Youko were nosy to interfere with Sei's business, but I don't think they had any mean intentions by doing that, and they weren't the ones who caused a scene and expelled Shimako out of the Mansion first ... I mean, Sei was the one who came in yelling and started flipping out. Plus, she was the one who demanded that Shimako leave... Eriko, if I'm not mistaken, then said "do what she just said".

Most importantly, it was Eriko who took Shimako out and apologized to her for the incident, and was then very nice to her (I guess you didn't see this part).
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Old 2004-09-08, 20:10   Link #28
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I won't say that it's right for Youko and Eriko to interfere but at that time at least I belive that what happened with Sei and Shori was still very much on their minds. And maybe Youko did some covert investigating of Shimako to see what kind of person she is.
While it looks really bad at the starting, the results are good I guess, for both Sei and Shimako.
But I do agree that Shimako must have been shocked, poor Shimako.
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Old 2004-09-08, 23:05   Link #29
The Yellow Dwarf
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Well...officially Eriko and Youko are just scouting Shimako to help out at the Yamayurikai. For a first year like Shimako, the attention from the Roses would be more like an honor than an insult or an issue of annoyance. Of course Sei knows what the two of them were up to, but Shimako is still pretty much in the dark. I don't know why Shimako would feel "being attacked" at all, although maybe she would've thought Sei had mental problems.

Additionally, it was nice to see more of Youko and Eriko. Youko's mettling mommishness is strengthened yet again and we get to see quite a bit of "smarts" coming from Eriko. Both of them are simply looking out for Sei out of good will.
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Old 2004-09-09, 00:28   Link #30
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
If I had been asked to the mansion then attacked like that then shown the door, I would have thought the Rose Mansion and all it's roses were disgusting and mean and would avoid them for the rest of my time at Lillian.
Interesting to see how the non-Japanese take on to seeing this part. Either you guys are thinking too hard, or that Japanese readers don't even think that way.

To us, we didn't see anything like that in that scene. A first year student was called in to come visit a certain club (in this case - the Yamayurikai) by elder seniors. That's it. Sure there was some intentions, but this nothing to go over that is deemed "shocking" to us - such things occurs everytime when we are at middle and high school.

For example, in high school, I get called in by some elder third year students to come visit a student body. I sit down with them, they give me some tea. After some chit-chat, they explain that they recruited me because of my background and grades, I said "let me think about it." I returned the next day to say "I am sorry, but I cannot join the student body - but I can join several meetings to help out certain events," and they put me onto the school festival association.

The point here is not tertiary sub-points on "how wily Eriko and Youko are" nor "how Shimako-san must've felt bad." The secondary, and more important point here is "Eriko and Youko overheard Sei muttering Shimako's name, and they decided to recruit her into the Yamayurikai." And the primary point the author is making is how Sei and Shimako became soeurs.
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Old 2004-09-09, 02:48   Link #31
Sweets Yumi
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Well it wasn't the inviting Shimako to the mansion that was upsetting to me, it was the reason behind inviting her.

They wanted Sei to come in and have a scene.

If you watch Eriko and Youko they are so straight faced and observant, like they are thinking "Ah, it is all going to plan"

And then when the Sei had her say, Shimako was lead out in a almost gloating scene by Eriko. Even though she appoligized, there was no actual remorse in her face.

Youko and Eriko really came off as Wicked Stepmothers of fairytales to me in this episode.


I don't see why Shimako, who has nothing to do with these people, should have been put through such a scene. Sei may have thoughts towards Shimako, but what about Shimakos feelings? They didn't seem too concerned about hers.


But one thing I've learned from this episode is that Shimako ISN'T fraile. Even though she seems that way, the type (like me) who can easily shatter like glass, she didn't really seemed upset by the event past looking concerned Sei was upset.



But I do have some confusion with Sachiko! In the first season it was said that Sachiko asked Shimako to be her soeur and was turned down. But in this episode Sachiko confronts Sei about her idea to ask Shimako and Sei says Sachiko can't have her, then runs off and gathers up Shimako and offers her her rosary.


So then, if Sachiko never got a chance to ask Shimako, then how could she have been turned down by her??


Also Shimako said she only had a few months before Seu graduates and that she willl be sad but cherish the time they have (the best I remember anyway ) So if Sei was all angsty through the previous year with Shiori and at least 1/2 the next year still over Shiori, how on Earth did she evolve into the goof that she ended up being in such a short amount of time?

Did she change the very day Shimako accepted her rosary? That's very bizzare to have such a fast change.



Lastly I'd like to say how I hate Sei's violence, and her pretending to hit Youko made me scared of Sei.
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Old 2004-09-09, 07:11   Link #32
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Quote:
Lastly I'd like to say how I hate Sei's violence, and her pretending to hit Youko made me scared of Sei.
But Youko didnt even budge! Wow.
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Old 2004-09-09, 10:45   Link #33
lordwu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Well it wasn't the inviting Shimako to the mansion that was upsetting to me, it was the reason behind inviting her.
Why people can't see it from the bright side? Youko was simply wanting to help out a very good friend and she regretted not doing enough when Sei was with Shiori. That is why she seemed to be a bit pushy this time because she felt she was wrong when she held back dealing with Sei/Shiori situation. You make it sound like she deliberately want to make Sei mad or something, which is simply not true. Youko knows Sei and she knows what the backlash would be if she does things like this, and that's why she didn't buldge when Sei was going to slap her. However, she felt doing that is the best for Sei and was willing to take the hit if Sei indeed hits her. Eriko on the other hand, I think, was just waiting to see an interesting event on the sideline.

Quote:
I don't see why Shimako, who has nothing to do with these people, should have been put through such a scene. Sei may have thoughts towards Shimako, but what about Shimakos feelings? They didn't seem too concerned about hers.
Sometimes you just have to play the bad guy to push things forward. If you complain about this then I believe you don't like how Noriko was treated as well. But you gotta understand that Sei and Shimako are the type that keeps too much to themselves and thinks too much. An extra push is needed to put them back on track before they go rampant. I don't think Youko/Sachiko like to play the parts they have to play to help Sei/Shimako, but at times you gotta do what you gotta do for a friend.

Quote:
But I do have some confusion with Sachiko! In the first season it was said that Sachiko asked Shimako to be her soeur and was turned down. But in this episode Sachiko confronts Sei about her idea to ask Shimako and Sei says Sachiko can't have her, then runs off and gathers up Shimako and offers her her rosary.
At that point Sachiko has already asked Shimako and got rejected.

Quote:
Did she change the very day Shimako accepted her rosary? That's very bizzare to have such a fast change.
One reason I think is: Shiori is an angel, Shimako is a human.
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Old 2004-09-09, 12:50   Link #34
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Well it wasn't the inviting Shimako to the mansion that was upsetting to me, it was the reason behind inviting her.

They wanted Sei to come in and have a scene.
I'm not sure if that's the case. In fact, they have cancelled a scheduled meeting to have Shimako come over so Sei wouldn't be present.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordwu
One reason I think is: Shiori is an angel, Shimako is a human.
What does that mean?
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Old 2004-09-09, 13:35   Link #35
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Also Shimako said she only had a few months before Seu graduates and that she willl be sad but cherish the time they have (the best I remember anyway ) So if Sei was all angsty through the previous year with Shiori and at least 1/2 the next year still over Shiori, how on Earth did she evolve into the goof that she ended up being in such a short amount of time?

Did she change the very day Shimako accepted her rosary? That's very bizzare to have such a fast change.
Check your timeline on this one. We don't see these girls again in the story until at least September (whenever the culture festival was). 5 months can see a lot of changes in a person's life.
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Old 2004-09-09, 13:56   Link #36
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I felt the same way Lordwu did when watching this episode -- Eriko and Youko were just being good friends, looking out for their buddy Sei. It struck me as touching more than anything else, and the end result showed just how well Youki knew Sei. Her plans worked perfectly, and I think that Sei would in retrospect be glad that Youko invervened.

One of the reasons I'm so fond of the white roses is because I can identify with them (Noriko notwithstanding) more than any other character I've ever encountered before. And it's in these kind of situations that my friends always come through for me -- when I just don't know what's best for me or take something so seriously that I get bogged down and don't do anything.

Sometimes people like me really DO need a big shove in the right direction, whether or not we appreciate or even realize it. You know you have good friends when they know you better than you know yourself.
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Old 2004-09-09, 14:38   Link #37
Sweets Yumi
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Being as extremly sensitive as I am. I have a tough time seeing (what I see as) violent or mean behaviour ever being for anyones own good.

So I guess this episode is just lost to me.

I haven't seen Noriko's episodes yet, so I guess I have another shock coming....

I miss the almost dreamyness from Season 1.



Don't mind me or my comments anyone. I know my feelings on things are always in the minority.
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Old 2004-09-09, 16:19   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Being as extremly sensitive as I am. I have a tough time seeing (what I see as) violent or mean behaviour ever being for anyones own good.
I can definitely understand that. I guess their approach wasn't exactly subtle... but hey, it turned out alright in the end, didn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
I haven't seen Noriko's episodes yet, so I guess I have another shock coming....
While I didn't think anything was wrong with this episode, I was actually kinda miffed by what the Yamayurikai pulled on Shimako and Noriko... so I wonder what you'll think of that episode. They sure love to meddle with the White Rose family!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Don't mind me or my comments anyone. I know my feelings on things are always in the minority.
Naw, it's always good to hear another opinion, minority or not
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Old 2004-09-09, 20:26   Link #39
atua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
Check your timeline on this one. We don't see these girls again in the story until at least September (whenever the culture festival was). 5 months can see a lot of changes in a person's life.
Actually this isn't quite right. Shimako didn't accept Sei's rosary until after Sachiko asked her at the end of the Athletics Festival, which happens around September. The cultural festival is in (late?) October. Sei sure took her sweet time with this, since Sei met Shimako in spring (in April).
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Old 2004-09-09, 21:40   Link #40
MikoKikyo
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Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Lastly I'd like to say how I hate Sei's violence, and her pretending to hit Youko made me scared of Sei.
That's really the part of the incident that bothered me.. It didn't seem unnatural for Youko and Eriko to call Shimako over or to try to set her up as Sei's prospective soeur, but in no way did any of what they did seem to justify the scandal that Sei made. Maybe it's just a cultural thing, but it seems to me that Sei went way overboard in the intensity of her shouts and fierceness of her anger.

But again, in tv shows and movies it's not uncommon for characters to add an extra share of drama to their emotional reactions... In this case though, the drama was inordinate imo, so much that I almost went back to see if there was another motivation behind Sei's anger I was missing out on
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