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Old 2004-09-09, 21:49   Link #41
mintyfresh
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweets Yumi
Lastly I'd like to say how I hate Sei's violence, and her pretending to hit Youko made me scared of Sei.
Huh.. i didn't really take that scene that way, to be honest. The way i saw it, Sei was only just about ready to slap Youko, but couldn't bring herself to actually do it.

..or maybe that's just me.
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Old 2004-09-09, 23:33   Link #42
Jon-o
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintyfresh
Huh.. i didn't really take that scene that way, to be honest. The way i saw it, Sei was only just about ready to slap Youko, but couldn't bring herself to actually do it.

..or maybe that's just me.

I didn't see it quite that way - more that she had just been brought to the point where she completely lost it, and was ready to thwack a friend, but caught herself just in time. In fact, it seemed that Youko was TRYING to bring things to that point, knowing that Sei wouldn't realize how destructive her attitude was until she almost hurt someone . . . Interesting how they interact.

I really like the fact that we were left in the dark about all this through the whole first season though. Most of the show so far has just been about 4 or 5 months, and some background to it.
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Old 2004-09-09, 23:43   Link #43
Nequam
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I think it's very interesting how everyone's got a different take on this scene...
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Old 2004-09-10, 03:34   Link #44
The Yellow Dwarf
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by PriestessKikyo
That's really the part of the incident that bothered me.. It didn't seem unnatural for Youko and Eriko to call Shimako over or to try to set her up as Sei's prospective soeur, but in no way did any of what they did seem to justify the scandal that Sei made. Maybe it's just a cultural thing, but it seems to me that Sei went way overboard in the intensity of her shouts and fierceness of her anger.

But again, in tv shows and movies it's not uncommon for characters to add an extra share of drama to their emotional reactions... In this case though, the drama was inordinate imo, so much that I almost went back to see if there was another motivation behind Sei's anger I was missing out on
I had the exact reaction when I first saw it. I too felt that Sei was overreacting as well.

However, there are a few speculations that may explain why Sei was so angered:

For one, Shiori has left for less than half a year; Sei's attraction to Shimako is not something that she would like to admit. In this episode Sei had repeatedly avoided Shimako even though she had definitely registered Shimako on her radar, so to speak (under the tree in the beginning, at the chapel when the first years received their necklace, etc.). It is likely that Sei is feeling guilty for having felt Shimako in a similar way she felt Shiori, and her anger comes from the frustration that the other two Roses are forcing onto her what she's trying deliberately to avoid.

Secondly, even though the Roses are friends, I have felt that there is a certain sense of rivalry beneath all the closeness. Sei and Eriko became aquainted with each other through a fight; Sei and Youko repeatedly clashed with each other through the Shiori year; Youko thought that if she broke down at the graduation Sei and Eriko would laugh instead of coming to her aid, etc. The Roses are obviously talented student leaders, and as such there seems (at least to me) that they're always competing with each other under the table to see who is the best. It is a friendly competition, but a competition nonetheless. If that is true, then Youko's and Eriko's action would likely be seen by Sei as an act of transgression and condescension.

Interestingly, in this particular scene Sei is not consciously aware of the parallel between Shiori and Shimako until she actually blurbs it out. After that, her anger (and perhaps more) becomes more internalized (her would-be-slap notwithstanding) and this is shown quite visibly in the anime. It is perhaps at this point that Sei changes her attitude about Shimako and Shimako's potential role in the Student Council.

There is something that I don't fully understand and I would like a little input from all of you guys:

When Sei says, "Shiori, to me, you were an angel; but Shimako is human," what does she mean?
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Old 2004-09-10, 03:49   Link #45
atua
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf
When Sei says, "Shiori, to me, you were an angel; but Shimako is human," what does she mean?
Sei clearly had Shiori on a proverbial pedastal. Shiori was like an ideal for Sei; an eternally beautiful but ultimately untouchable and somewhat distant being. This was undoubtedly part of the attraction. Shimako also exuded some of that etherealness, but was also a lot more earthly, more accessible and someone whom Sei can relate to.
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Old 2004-09-10, 07:03   Link #46
Takemi_Ikazuchi
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Sei was more angry with herself than Youko.

It stems mostly from Shimako's likeness to Shiori.

How would you feel if I dragged a someone who looked like your dead fiancee into your pressence?

Not very pleasant, I assume.
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Old 2004-09-10, 10:25   Link #47
Bracken33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriestessKikyo
That's really the part of the incident that bothered me.. It didn't seem unnatural for Youko and Eriko to call Shimako over or to try to set her up as Sei's prospective soeur, but in no way did any of what they did seem to justify the scandal that Sei made. Maybe it's just a cultural thing, but it seems to me that Sei went way overboard in the intensity of her shouts and fierceness of her anger.

But again, in tv shows and movies it's not uncommon for characters to add an extra share of drama to their emotional reactions... In this case though, the drama was inordinate imo, so much that I almost went back to see if there was another motivation behind Sei's anger I was missing out on
I think the same way.
Youko (and maybe Eriko) believe Sei and Shimako would be a perfect match. So they assist fate a bit and bring them together.
Not so uncommon in real life too. I see no harm done.

Sei on the other hand was really rude when it comes to Shimako.
Her behaviour was inadequate and offensive.
Sei´s aggression towards Youko was also a way overboard, but we know that Sei´s anger over Youko was not totally unwarranted .
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Old 2004-09-10, 16:52   Link #48
The_Dreamer
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Hm, I also thought Sei overreacted a bit to seeing Shimako there. After watching it again though, I thought that maybe Sei was upset that Shimako had been brought into the Yamiyurikai just because she let her name slip. Which of course only seems to be part of it. Shimako's a reminder of Shiori and Sei felt (and rightly so) that Youko and Eriko had no right to do that. Maybe they didn't, but it pushed Sei in the right direction. So I'm forever convinced that Youko is one brilliant woman. XD Eriko was there to be a spectator I think.

I don't think the relationship between the Roses is competitive. When Youko said that Eriko and Sei would probably burst out laughing if she had reacted like Sachiko...Well, they probably would burst out laughing but I'd still like to think that they'd help Youko out. It reminded me alot of my own friends. We're always joking around but when it comes to serious stuff we'd stick together. Honestly, though. The Roses seem too different to have anything to compete over. They've all got their own thing they're good at.
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Old 2004-09-10, 21:01   Link #49
JokerD
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How fast did Sei change from the moody anti-social person seen in this ep to the person we see in ep 1 s1? From this ep I gather that Sachiko asked Shimako to be her soeur somewhere in Oct and the S1ep1 was somewhere in Nov-early dec (I could be wrong) Did Sei begin to change after Shimako came into the picture? Or did she put on the mask somewhere within a month's time or just for Yumi's benefit?
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Old 2004-09-11, 02:19   Link #50
hooliganj
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Isn't it still Spring when Sei pops the question? Maybe I misunderstood.

Regardless, I think Sei is just a person who is really direct and forward when displaying her emotions. If she wants to go after Shiori, then by Jove she's going to chase Shiori, if she wants to be by herself for a while, then by Jove she's going to be alone, and if she wants to grope Yumi, then by Jove she's going to cop a feel.

All of the different aspects of her personality that we've seen fit her character just fine, she's just the sort of person who doesn't really have a middle ground. While she was depressed and angry, she withdrew and lashed out at people, now that she's in a good mood, she teases people and freely dispenses her sage advice. I don't really see a big change there.
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Old 2004-09-11, 23:14   Link #51
alunde
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Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
Regardless, I think Sei is just a person who is really direct and forward when displaying her emotions.
And she probably wishes the rest of the world was more like her...

If you imagine several of the marimite characters as aspects of one personality, you get someone with a very messed up mind...
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Old 2004-09-14, 01:41   Link #52
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atua
Sei clearly had Shiori on a proverbial pedastal. Shiori was like an ideal for Sei; an eternally beautiful but ultimately untouchable and somewhat distant being. This was undoubtedly part of the attraction. Shimako also exuded some of that etherealness, but was also a lot more earthly, more accessible and someone whom Sei can relate to.
Bwahahahahaha. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I saw that: Shiori being "like an angel," you know, from up in the sky; and Shimako being more "earthly," and more attuned to the plants (gingko, the garden, sakura, etc.). I wonder who can fill the "human" position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by alunde
If you imagine several of the marimite characters as aspects of one personality, you get someone with a very messed up mind...
That's why we have 6+ billion people on Earth.
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