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Old 2004-09-04, 00:29   Link #81
Daru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberPunk
.......riiiight. unlike naruto who uses his own power, right?

think about it this way, for anyone to do what sasuke did, it would take years. why? because look at the dramatic increase in speed he obtained. it took lee, the hardest working man in konoha, years to get that. he also learned the chidori, a very complex move that everyone was amazed at seeing. keep in mind that he did this in UNDER A MONTH'S TIME. i don't get how you can look at that and still believe sasuke isn't a genius ninja. oh, and the gaara fight...in case you forgot, sasuke dominated gaara in the arena.

Yeah, i have thought about it, and i consider your argument, but i dont agree with you. Yes learning rock lee's speed and learning the chidori is a feat in itself, but saying that Rock Lee is the hardest working man in Konoha is wrong. But i digress from my point. Regardless of Sauske gaining an increase in skill your going to tell me that Naruto hasnt had an increase in skill? Your going to say that Sasuke is a genius because he learned some new jutsu and gainsed some speed that took someone years to get.....ok, lets look at the Rasengan...a moved that took the 4th 4 years to master, or somewhere around there. How long did it take Naruto to master it? Was he using Kyubi's power while mastering the Rasengan? Was Naruto using Kyubis power while fighting Garaa? I dont know about you, but I didnt see any Red Chakra in any of those episodes, but for all i know you could have seen something different. All im saying is that "I" dont consider Sauske a genius with all his "hard work" that hes been doing to get his "increase" in power. I see sauske that has learned some taijutsu, and the chidori.
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Old 2004-09-04, 01:48   Link #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daru
Yeah, i have thought about it, and i consider your argument, but i dont agree with you. Yes learning rock lee's speed and learning the chidori is a feat in itself, but saying that Rock Lee is the hardest working man in Konoha is wrong. But i digress from my point. Regardless of Sauske gaining an increase in skill your going to tell me that Naruto hasnt had an increase in skill? Your going to say that Sasuke is a genius because he learned some new jutsu and gainsed some speed that took someone years to get.....ok, lets look at the Rasengan...a moved that took the 4th 4 years to master, or somewhere around there. How long did it take Naruto to master it? Was he using Kyubi's power while mastering the Rasengan? Was Naruto using Kyubis power while fighting Garaa? I dont know about you, but I didnt see any Red Chakra in any of those episodes, but for all i know you could have seen something different. All im saying is that "I" dont consider Sauske a genius with all his "hard work" that hes been doing to get his "increase" in power. I see sauske that has learned some taijutsu, and the chidori.

the reason sasuke's achievements before the gaara battle reflect a genius ninja is because of the time span he learned them in. 2 weeks man...2 weeks. it also helps that he has a bloodline ability from, supposedly, the most fear clan in konoha.

learning a technique and creating a technique are two very different things; and i think it was under a month for naruto take get the technique down. he still hasn't mastered it yet, but he's able to perform it pretty well. he's a very hard worker, don't get me wrong, but he also does have his stamina mixing with a demon which allows him to work himself into a collapsed heap, then wake up the next morning like nothing happened.

it's pretty late, so i'm not gonna dig into the kyuubi and resengan debate, but naruto was fed chakra from kyuubi during the gaara fight. take a look back to all the times naruto has tried to summon something. it's always been a little scout frog. so after he expended all his chakra on the 1000 replications(or however many there were) and was captured in the shukaku's sand coffin thing, i'm lead to believe that, at the last second before his demise, he was able to summon gamabunta with chakra lent to him by kyuubi. it's the most logical thing to believe, even if no chakra was shown. not to mention just before the headbutt, he was given a bit more as a boost.

now to the other parts. i'm in no way debating whether or not naruto hasn't gained an increase in skill, i'm just defending sasuke, which i find myself doing the most because of his constant ridicule by various fanboys that refuse to give him any credit whatsoever. and if rock lee isn't the hardest working ninja in konoha, who is? i think it's a safe assumption and i stand firmly by my accusation.
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Old 2004-09-04, 02:26   Link #83
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Yes Naruto was fed chakra from kyuubi and that is why he was able to learn rasengan, but Sasuke also did learn chidori and his taijutsu with his sharingan. So basically they are geniuses because of their abilities. But Daru is right, Sasuke's "hard work" is just from his sharingan and so is Naruto's "hard work" is from kyuubi. But we all know the true genius is Rock Lee because of his hard work. I would say what he has accomplished is greater than Sasukes, even though it didnt take him two weeks. And that is why people like him
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Old 2004-09-04, 02:57   Link #84
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sasuke was number 1 rookie before he even awakened his sharingan eyes. the flashbacks to when he was a little kid show he was a very hard worker. also, i don't think it's possible to "copy" speed. from what he saw of lee, sasuke pictured lee's movements and worked his ass off during his training to master them and acquire the speed he now has. his natural talent and genius ability is what allowed him to develop so quickly. his "hard work" isn't just from his sharingan; he has hardly shown that he can use it properly(meaning copying and reading movements as well as we've seen kakashi do). so please give him -some- sort of credit.
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Old 2004-09-04, 11:23   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownRukus
"Itachi - Possibly but at the moment I'm just gonna say he's powerfull"

Wow dude, u think Sasuke is a genius but Itachi is just powerful?

Shikamaru not a genius? He is mentally better than anybdy, he can come up with some awesome ways to create a shadow, as shown with his fight against Temari.

IF u consider Sasuke a genius, u have to consider Naruto a Genius.

Jiraiya not a genius? wowo man, look at all the moves he can do, he may act stupid, but when he fights, he fights.
All I know so far about Itachi is that he's a good fighter and he possibly killed his clan. "OMG look I just killed my clan I is teh smart><or"

Hey everyone in naruto fights therefore they're all geniusses ^_^

As for Shikamru he's just smart, he's not really that good of a fighter and if there isn't any shadows around he's screwed.

Oh and in the Gaara fight Naruto did indeed use some of Kyubi's power although it was pretty much right at the end of the fight and it didn't really help him much cos Gaara caught his arms and legs in the sand... still he managed to nut him one.
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Old 2004-09-04, 12:11   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodloss2000
All I know so far about Itachi is that he's a good fighter and he possibly killed his clan. "OMG look I just killed my clan I is teh smart><or"

Hey everyone in naruto fights therefore they're all geniusses ^_^

As for Shikamru he's just smart, he's not really that good of a fighter and if there isn't any shadows around he's screwed.

Oh and in the Gaara fight Naruto did indeed use some of Kyubi's power although it was pretty much right at the end of the fight and it didn't really help him much cos Gaara caught his arms and legs in the sand... still he managed to nut him one.
Shikamaru is smart. HIs intelligence can overcome the gap in strength in a lot of cases. He's just smart as you say, but he can still beat those a lot stronger than him with tacticts. You don't know how he will fare agaisnt any of the 'really strong' genins. He may win he may lose.

I personally think that Rock Lee and Neji are harder workers than Sasuke and Naruto...
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Old 2004-09-04, 12:28   Link #87
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bloodloss, read my first post that's further up on the page, please.
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Old 2004-09-04, 12:44   Link #88
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i just find it interesting that uchiha clan was considered most powerful, yet the hyuuya clan also claim to be the most powerful. so which clan is more powerful?
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Old 2004-09-04, 12:47   Link #89
CyberPunk
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there really is alot of confusion there. on one hand you have itachi himself saying the uchiha were the most feared. but back when konoha was getting invaded, hiashi said that the hyuuga were the strongest. that may mean they were the strongest clan at the moment because the uchiha were gone? i also remember something being said about the hyuuga being the strongest around the preliminary battles. i'm gonna choose to believe the uchiha were the strongest. i guess we'll never know though. :P
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Old 2004-09-04, 13:04   Link #90
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The Uchiha clan is no more so the Hyuga wins by default right now.
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Old 2004-09-04, 14:13   Link #91
Steffa
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well as i understood...the members of the hyuuga clan were far more numerous than the members of the uchiha clan....not to mention that in the hyuuga family everyone is born with the byakugan while in the uchiha in just a few it fully develops
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Old 2004-09-04, 14:52   Link #92
tOfUDeLiTe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberPunk
sasuke was number 1 rookie before he even awakened his sharingan eyes. the flashbacks to when he was a little kid show he was a very hard worker. also, i don't think it's possible to "copy" speed. from what he saw of lee, sasuke pictured lee's movements and worked his ass off during his training to master them and acquire the speed he now has. his natural talent and genius ability is what allowed him to develop so quickly. his "hard work" isn't just from his sharingan; he has hardly shown that he can use it properly(meaning copying and reading movements as well as we've seen kakashi do). so please give him -some- sort of credit.
dont get me wrong i know sasuke worked hard for what he has become now but his sharingan did help him learn it quicker, he did use his sharingan to copy lee's taijutsu, but naruto works hard too even with the help of kyuubi, so are both of them geniuses or are they geniuses because of their abilities? a little off topic here but there was a topic on if naruto would be as great as he is without kyuubi well we would never know because he would have never been outcasted and never had the motivation to work hard and have people acknowledge him. so would sasuke be as great as he is without his sharingan? well lets get back on the topic i think that the uchiha clan would be considered geniuses because really the definition of genius from dictionary.com doesnt really matter because rock lee introduced us to the word genius by saying sasuke and neji were geniuses because of their sharingan and byakugan and how hard work could surpass a genius. So i would say the uchiha clan is geniuses my 2 cents

Last edited by tOfUDeLiTe; 2004-09-04 at 15:06.
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Old 2004-09-04, 15:41   Link #93
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Heh sorry yberPunk I didn't read that part of your post.

If you ask me though I would say that the Hyuuga are the strongest clan because they have the whole ability to see through everything and even the Chakra cut of points... The sharigan can't and the sharigan doesn't provide you with the skill to hit the cut of points... Aslo the Hyuuga can do that thing were they force Chakra into your body to you damage people with the sharigan can't.
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Old 2004-09-04, 16:52   Link #94
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Naruto isn't a genius, he's just a very hard worker. Since he gets healed by Kyuubi, he can just train several times as much as everyone else. Also, one of the main themes of the series is that being a genius doesn't guarantee a win while hard work and determination are the way to go. Kishimoto tries to show this with characters like Naruto and Lee.

I don't think Jiraiya is a genius either, based on what Orochimaru says about him and the fact that Naruto and Sasuke seem to be this generations equivalents of Jiraiya and Orochimaru.

As for Shikamaru, he is a genius in the sense that he's very smart but not in the sense that he's a gifted ninja.
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Old 2004-09-04, 17:44   Link #95
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All am saying is if u consider Sasuke a Genius, u have to consider Naruto a genius.
THey both use their abilities to learn techniques faster than others. U can say they are gifted with their abilities and can their abilities very well.

Lee and Neji are the hardest workers in Naruto from what u have seen, their is no doubt.

Jiraiya and Orchi resemble Naruto and Sasuke?

I don't know, they are worlds apart, ok mayb Jiraiya and Naruto are the same but Orchi and Sasuke? Sasuke doesn't have the mentally to kill innocent ppl he thrives for power that's the only thing i can see that's in common
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Old 2004-09-04, 22:06   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownRukus
All am saying is if u consider Sasuke a Genius, u have to consider Naruto a genius.
THey both use their abilities to learn techniques faster than others. U can say they are gifted with their abilities and can their abilities very well.

Lee and Neji are the hardest workers in Naruto from what u have seen, their is no doubt.

Jiraiya and Orchi resemble Naruto and Sasuke?

I don't know, they are worlds apart, ok mayb Jiraiya and Naruto are the same but Orchi and Sasuke? Sasuke doesn't have the mentally to kill innocent ppl he thrives for power that's the only thing i can see that's in common
hmm.... Sasuke has the mentality to kill innocent people for power. Same with Oro, he kills innocent people for power...
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Old 2004-09-04, 23:38   Link #97
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thats somewhat true about sasuke...
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Old 2004-09-04, 23:48   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownRukus
Sasuke doesn't have the mentally to kill innocent ppl he thrives for power that's the only thing i can see that's in common
Wait till around ep 113 and say that lol
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Old 2004-09-05, 03:37   Link #99
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u have to say one thing though that lee and neji are a year older than naruto anda sasuke so they are weaker considering the age difference
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Old 2004-09-05, 08:13   Link #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brassmonkey
i just find it interesting that uchiha clan was considered most powerful, yet the hyuuya clan also claim to be the most powerful. so which clan is more powerful?
Kakashi is stronger than Hiashi, get the picture
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