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Old 2004-09-07, 11:53   Link #241
Genei Killua
Mashou no Tenshi
 
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The character book is kinda stupid. One can not resolve the differences between it and the manga in a reasonable fashion. This is especially true in regards to the Haku saga. It says Haku's speed in the ice mirrors is comparable to Lee's speed. However, it is stated that one needs to sharingan to be able to see Haku, and that that is the only way to defeat the jutsu. However, one doesn't need the sharingan to see Lee's speed (without the weights.) So you see it's kinda worthless.
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:45   Link #242
Hideki Keiji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genei Killua
The character book is kinda stupid. One can not resolve the differences between it and the manga in a reasonable fashion. This is especially true in regards to the Haku saga. It says Haku's speed in the ice mirrors is comparable to Lee's speed. However, it is stated that one needs to sharingan to be able to see Haku, and that that is the only way to defeat the jutsu. However, one doesn't need the sharingan to see Lee's speed (without the weights.) So you see it's kinda worthless.
I did state that it was probably inaccurate, and I don't agree with it most of the time, but what do we have left save speculation?
And where does it say that the sharingan is needed to defeat it? I thought that Sasuke simply couldn't see Haku without it because he was too slow.
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Old 2004-09-07, 13:54   Link #243
Anjin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genei Killua
The character book is kinda stupid. One can not resolve the differences between it and the manga in a reasonable fashion. This is especially true in regards to the Haku saga. It says Haku's speed in the ice mirrors is comparable to Lee's speed. However, it is stated that one needs to sharingan to be able to see Haku, and that that is the only way to defeat the jutsu. However, one doesn't need the sharingan to see Lee's speed (without the weights.) So you see it's kinda worthless.
I'm not sure where you are getting the "Need Sharingan to see Haku Speed."... Was that stated in the Character Book? I just rewatched those episdoes recently and unless they differed from the Manga, Sasuke was already able to see Haku before the Sharingan formed in his eye. He even said "My eyes are starting to see... I can see it!" and then after he actually saves Naruto and starts blocking the flying needles, only THEN does teh Sharingan come out. (Which goes to show that he COULD see the attacks and Haku BEFORE sharingan.) so I think thats a false statement regardless of where it comes from...

Also during the Lee vs Gaara fight, The Genins were having a hard time following Lee without the weights, and Gaara's sand couldn't keep up with him. No other Genin could 'outrun the sand' except Sasuke after his training w/ Kakashi. Also I'd liek to mention w/ Gates opened, NOBODY could follow Lee except for the Jounins.

I'd say that the POTENTIAL of the Genins speed and power is probably equal to Kakashi or some of the other Elite Jounins, however the experience is what they lack, which MAKES them Genins. Also the lack of Jutsu which the other Jounins have at their disposal. There are many things that make a Jounin, and raw strength isnt the only requirement... Hope i didn't rample off subject!
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Old 2004-09-07, 14:02   Link #244
CyberPunk
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neji could see lee's movement.
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:51   Link #245
Genei Killua
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As Sasuke was acquiring the sharingan, he was starting to be able to see Haku's movement. It is the sharingan that finally allowed him to track Haku. It was implied heavily that the sharingan was needed to defeat it. Otherwise, why would it be able to defeat Zabuza, as was implied by Zabuza himself? If Haku speed=Lee speed=Kakashi speed, how was Zabuza able to see Kakashi's movements if not Haku's? If Zabuza could see Haku in the demonic ice mirrors, why would he say it could defeat Kakashi? And this is just one issue.
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Old 2004-09-07, 20:53   Link #246
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genei Killua
As Sasuke was acquiring the sharingan, he was starting to be able to see Haku's movement. It is the sharingan that finally allowed him to track Haku. It was implied heavily that the sharingan was needed to defeat it. Otherwise, why would it be able to defeat Zabuza, as was implied by Zabuza himself? If Haku speed=Lee speed=Kakashi speed, how was Zabuza able to see Kakashi's movements if not Haku's? If Zabuza could see Haku in the demonic ice mirrors, why would he say it could defeat Kakashi? And this is just one issue.
Also when Lee opened the gates, no other genin could see it, and who knows if the jounins were able to for Kakashi had to use his sharingan to keep up. That's true but Neji could also see it who is a gennin....

Anyways, did Zabuza ever say he won't be able to see Haku once the mirrors are up? Either way, it doesn't matter if you can see it if you can't react.
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Old 2004-09-07, 21:12   Link #247
yanoch
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I alway tough that sharingan could see speed when the guy who speed himself use "speed boost jutsu". Since Lee speed was trained he couldnt see him.


Anyway it only my tough and my theory need a bit of work out but i guess you see what i mean a bit.

Actually im not sure it have sense at all

hehe
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Old 2004-09-07, 21:21   Link #248
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yanoch
I alway tough that sharingan could see speed when the guy who speed himself use "speed boost jutsu". Since Lee speed was trained he couldnt see him.


Anyway it only my tough and my theory need a bit of work out but i guess you see what i mean a bit.

Actually im not sure it have sense at all

hehe
I don't think there is such a thing as a 'speed burst jutsu'. I would thing all speed is trained pyschically if it's being transfered from point a to point b such as Haku's Ice Mirrors.
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Old 2004-09-07, 22:12   Link #249
CyberPunk
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well i'm sure there's a way, with pure chakra control, you could increase your speed. if i remember right, sakura was doing that during her ino fight. i don't see why you couldn't be able to when you can focus it to jump super high(ie, sasuke leaping into the air when fighting haku, or when against oro).
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Old 2004-09-07, 23:13   Link #250
yanoch
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Im sure someone said at some point that lee speed was gained by work out and hard practice that s why sasuke coudnt see it.

I m surelly wrong, i really need to see all the serie/read the manga again.
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Old 2004-09-07, 23:29   Link #251
Ketsueki
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Sasuke didn't watch lee's strength for running fast but his stance's and foot postioning when he ran and stuff... so he could copy Lee's movements and just gained the strength for running fast in the one month training period.
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:34   Link #252
ChronoReverse
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Erm, Sasake was able to see Lee's speed just fine. The problem was that he wasn't able to do anything about it. That's why Lee made that speech about how with taijutsu, sharingan isn't as much of an advantage as with ninjutsu and genjutsu since if your body isn't able to keep up, it won't matter if you see it coming.
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Old 2004-09-08, 02:07   Link #253
yinstro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberPunk
well i'm sure there's a way, with pure chakra control, you could increase your speed. if i remember right, sakura was doing that during her ino fight. i don't see why you couldn't be able to when you can focus it to jump super high(ie, sasuke leaping into the air when fighting haku, or when against oro).
yes there is two ways to boost speed with training or with chakra, but using chakra isnt very effecient and seems to only be used for short bursts
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Old 2004-09-08, 10:19   Link #254
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yinstro
yes there is two ways to boost speed with training or with chakra, but using chakra isnt very effecient and seems to only be used for short bursts
Don't you need to train to boost speed with chakra? But either way I meant that there's no 'jutsu' that suddenly makes you super fast unless you consider stuff like the 'gates' jutsu....
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Old 2004-09-08, 10:41   Link #255
Freestyler
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what the hell are you ppl talking about??

this is the MANGA 229 DISCUSSION THREAD, not a haku speed sharingan lee speed, kakashi, blablablablablabla



my question

in the end of the manga, sasuke has his hands in his pocket while standing up, he does something in his pocket with this hands... but what??? does he have something in his pocket?? then he throws his arms back behin his head, and Wham 3-dot-sharingan, wtf did he just do??
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Old 2004-09-08, 10:47   Link #256
Nine Devil
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Originally Posted by Freestyler
my question

in the end of the manga, sasuke has his hands in his pocket while standing up, he does something in his pocket with this hands... but what??? does he have something in his pocket?? then he throws his arms back behin his head, and Wham 3-dot-sharingan, wtf did he just do??
Put his forehead protector on
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Old 2004-09-08, 16:02   Link #257
neodrag38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freestyler
what the hell are you ppl talking about??

this is the MANGA 229 DISCUSSION THREAD, not a haku speed sharingan lee speed, kakashi, blablablablablabla



my question

in the end of the manga, sasuke has his hands in his pocket while standing up, he does something in his pocket with this hands... but what??? does he have something in his pocket?? then he throws his arms back behin his head, and Wham 3-dot-sharingan, wtf did he just do??
Read the manga chapter again since I have no idea how you could have missed such an important part of the chapter.
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Old 2004-09-08, 23:26   Link #258
Dorfl
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(I missed it the first time I read it too... )
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Old 2004-09-09, 01:27   Link #259
yinstro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Don't you need to train to boost speed with chakra? But either way I meant that there's no 'jutsu' that suddenly makes you super fast unless you consider stuff like the 'gates' jutsu....

maybe i mistook your meaning, i meant by releasing chakra from parts of yourr body you can increase speed and power by adding to your own force. not a specific jutsu.
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Old 2004-09-09, 09:44   Link #260
Freestyler
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sorry, didn't notice it

sasuke looks cooler without a head protector
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