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Old 2003-12-05, 04:03   Link #41
Caddberry
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Alcohol is Awesome! actually there are many things better than alcohol.. Yeah sure they might be illegal.. but so was alcohol at one time.. The key to any mind altering drug.. (yes alcohol is a drug) is moderation which was said.. Get totally messed outta your mind, but dont let it affect your life (grades, job, family) and you are ok.. and i think that works with anything..

Cigarettes are horrid... They are by far more addictive than alcohol.. in fact they say breaking the smoking habit is harder than kicking a heroin addiction.. and yes i smoke.. so i would know ^_^

Drugs arent about rebelling, although they may be for some pepole.. They are about feeling GREAT!! If you have never gotten drunk or been on a substance then perhaps you wouldnt know.. it would be somewhat of analogous with a child that experienced chocolate for the first time..

The thing that bugs me more than anything is people that sit there and put down others that get drunk/high when they have never touched anything and have no clue what they are missing.. Its like a virgin giving sex advice.. it doesnt work..

In the end it's all a choice of what you wish to do with your life.. Some people chose not to do anything to alter their mind (and yes anime is an awesome drug!) and that is fine.. seriously.. good for you.. me .. I'll try anything once.. (almost and within reason here)

^_^
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Old 2003-12-05, 05:38   Link #42
whatever123
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i dont know where u guys get the idea that smoking is more addictive than alcohol.

chronic alcoholism is associated with something called withdrawal syndrom the same concept as the one with drugs but different symtoms and mechanisms and needs medical treatment while the only thing u get with smoking is psychological craving (less than that of alcohol) and a headache and mood alteration (i smoke too)
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Old 2003-12-05, 06:29   Link #43
Laguna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever123
i dont know where u guys get the idea that smoking is more addictive than alcohol.

chronic alcoholism is associated with something called withdrawal syndrom the same concept as the one with drugs but different symtoms and mechanisms and needs medical treatment while the only thing u get with smoking is psychological craving (less than that of alcohol) and a headache and mood alteration (i smoke too)
You're way off track.. Humor me, google word "nicotine addiction" and read couple articles there.
Alcoholism is disease and is result of years and years of non-stop alcohol abuse. This should not be mixed up with random controlled use of alcohol, that has very minimal long term health effects. Use like this doesn't cause any sort of addiction, if you don't count the social one (you're friends drink, you drink).
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Old 2003-12-05, 06:54   Link #44
whatever123
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could u elaborate more on the "random controled use of alcohol"

coz last time i checked the only person who is in control of that is only ur self, which means that ur the only person who is in control of how much u drink which is different with each individual, also its different with the psychological state of the individual himself, all of this means while u think that drinking a cup a day is alright some one might find it better to drink a bottle a day and so on.

so when u say "random controled use" for a couple of years then u might one day be faced with some psychological or social problem this "random controlled use" might turn into chronic alcoholism since that its much easier to get addicted to alcohol than its for nicotine coz its alter ur mind and releave u from ur conciesness
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Old 2003-12-05, 08:35   Link #45
Laguna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever123
could u elaborate more on the "random controled use of alcohol"
With random and controlled use I mean that person doesn't regular craving for alcohol. If you drink daily, it is definately regular use, and should be understood as alcohol problem. If you drink couple times in month, it's very well under control and doesn't cause harm, and particularly not addiction.

And as for control. Of course it is youself who is in control of what you do.. you must yourself figure out what's a proper amount of alcohol you should (or should not) use, to stay in reasonable amounts.. nobody is coming to tell you this. If you can't figure this out, you are much more vulnerable for addiction.

Quote:
so when u say "random controled use" for a couple of years then u might one day be faced with some psychological or social problem this "random controlled use" might turn into chronic alcoholism since that its much easier to get addicted to alcohol than its for nicotine coz its alter ur mind and releave u from ur conciesness
As I said before, alcoholism is disease caused by years of alcohol abuse. And with abuse I mean that you don't take alcohol couple times in month for example, but rather crave to be constantly under influence of alcohol. Random use does not cause this craving. Also those who get addicted to alcohol are ones who have plenty of other problems too. Alcohol is only a way to escape these problems. Altho way can become problem itself, and manifest as alcoholism.

Then again, nicotin is much faster to cause physical addiction. You don't need to smoke but an couple weeks, and you start to notice how hard it is to quit anymore. You get same withdrawal symptoms as with much more dangerous drugs.
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Old 2003-12-05, 08:49   Link #46
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well u could also smoke a couple of times per month on occasion and dont get addicted to smoking

u could also drink a bottle a day or more for a couple of weeks and get addicted to it as fast as nicotine

and what is the nicotine withdrawal symptom could u provide me a link plz coz i know nothing about it and never heard about it as a disease unlike alcoholic withdrawal syndrom which is much more common
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Old 2003-12-05, 09:11   Link #47
Laguna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever123
well u could also smoke a couple of times per month on occasion and dont get addicted to smoking

u could also drink a bottle a day or more for a couple of weeks and get addicted to it as fast as nicotine

and what is the nicotine withdrawal symptom could u provide me a link plz coz i know nothing about it and never heard about it as a disease unlike alcoholic withdrawal syndrom which is much more common
Well I had rather hoped that you had bring me evidence that nicotin is not that addictive, cause scientific proof on this one is unanimous (if you don't count tobacco company propaganda). Well here you go.. just little google research.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/ResearchRepo...ine3.html#long
http://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/pubs/book...-addiction.htm
http://www.athealth.com/Practitioner...PN_3_39.html#2
http://www.drugabuse.gov/researchrep...html#addictive

(from first link)
"An important but poorly understood component of the nicotine withdrawal syndrome is craving, an urge for nicotine that has been described as a major obstacle to successful abstinence. High levels of craving for tobacco may persist for 6 months or longer. While the withdrawal syndrome is related to the pharmacological effects of nicotine, many behavioral factors also can affect the severity of withdrawal symptoms. For some people, the feel, smell, and sight of a cigarette and the ritual of obtaining, handling, lighting, and smoking the cigarette are all associated with the pleasurable effects of smoking and can make withdrawal or craving worse. While nicotine gum and patches may alleviate the pharmacological aspects of withdrawal, cravings often persist."

EDIT:

Of course you don't get addicted to cigarettes either if you use them very randomly. Premise of addiction is constant use of drug.
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Last edited by Laguna; 2003-12-05 at 09:24.
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Old 2003-12-05, 09:33   Link #48
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well i never said that nicotine doesnt have an adictive component i mentioned the symptoms in my previos post except for the pharmacological which is correct but how about this:

i am qouting from clinical pharmacology 8th ed by D.R. LAWRENCE, P.N., BENNET and M.J Brown churchill livingstone, london page 156

TYPES OF DRUG DEPENDENCE

the world health organization recomends that drug dependence be specified by "type" when under detailed discussion:

[i skipped to the part related to our discussion]

alcohol-type
-psychological dependance severe
-physical dependance with prolonged heavy use
-cross tolerance with other sedative

tobacco type
-psychological dependance strong
-physical dependance slight


also if u want i could outline the differences in severity between alcohol withdrawal and cigarette withdrawal
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Old 2003-12-05, 09:53   Link #49
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Ok some numbers then.

I would say probably 95 % of all smokers are addicted to nicotine.

How many drinkers are addicted to alcohol? Not more than 15 %.

Which drug is more addictive would you say?

We are not talkin about how bad things get once you're addicted. Were talking about how easy it is to get there.
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Old 2003-12-05, 10:01   Link #50
Laguna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever123
well i never said that nicotine doesnt have an adictive component i mentioned the symptoms in my previos post except for the pharmacological which is correct but how about this:

i am qouting from clinical pharmacology 8th ed by D.R. LAWRENCE, P.N., BENNET and M.J Brown churchill livingstone, london page 156

TYPES OF DRUG DEPENDENCE

the world health organization recomends that drug dependence be specified by "type" when under detailed discussion:

[i skipped to the part related to our discussion]

alcohol-type
-psychological dependance severe
-physical dependance with prolonged heavy use
-cross tolerance with other sedative

tobacco type
-psychological dependance strong
-physical dependance slight


also if u want i could outline the differences in severity between alcohol withdrawal and cigarette withdrawal
Okay this names the types of addictions, but it doesn't say anything about how addiction is born. Alcoholism is disease that isn't born as result of short time of using drug or even abusing it. It is (once again) result of long perioid of abuse. Also it includes much other problems than alcohol itself. I agree that alcoholism is much more severe condition than nicotin addiction, but this is not necessary because of the addiction itself. Usually alcoholic has very bad social and finacial status otherwise, and it can't be simply cured by rehabitation.
Also, I don't agree that nicotins physical withdrawal symptoms were "slight" .. that's just ridiculous. I have not seen anyone trying to quit smoking that said that symptoms were "slight". Then again, I haven't even seen anyone normal (not alcoholic) alcohol user even trying to stop using alcohol.

I argue that it is easier to create addiction to nicotin than alcohol. I don't know any smoker that smokes "couple times in week", but I know many alcohol users that takes alcohol sometimes, and have no problem with this.
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Old 2003-12-05, 10:06   Link #51
whatever123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u&t
Ok some numbers then.

I would say probably 95 % of all smokers are addicted to nicotine.

How many drinkers are addicted to alcohol? Not more than 15 %.

Which drug is more addictive would you say?

We are not talkin about how bad things get once you're addicted. Were talking about how easy it is to get there.
probably ur right

but a very good reason for that is the high mortalty rates due to car accident due to driving while ur drunk i know that its irrelevant to the discussion how easy is it to get addicted but i believe that its an important factor in the number u mentioned

edit:
Quote:
Also, I don't agree that nicotins physical withdrawal symptoms were "slight" .. that's just ridiculous. I have not seen anyone trying to quit smoking that said that symptoms were "slight". Then again, I haven't even seen anyone normal (not alcoholic) alcohol user even trying to stop using alcohol.
well thats probably because humans often relate thier psychological feelings with thier physical feelings meaning that they probably psychologicaly and subcounciously agrevated the feelings they had

[QOUTE]I argue that it is easier to create addiction to nicotin than alcohol. I don't know any smoker that smokes "couple times in week", but I know many alcohol users that takes alcohol sometimes, and have no problem with this.[/QOUTE]

a good reason for that is that smoking doesnt interfere with daily and personal life as much as alcohol u cant go to work while ur drunk u cant study while ur drunk the same thing goes for hangover


i just want to clear one thing SMOKING IS JUST AS BAD AS DRINKING FOR UR HEALTH dont smoke and try to stay as far as possible with someone who is smoking (take ur distance) i am not promoting smoking i am just saying that alcohol is worst than it smoking =cancer so is drinking
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Old 2003-12-05, 10:09   Link #52
BME
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Im a Coke junkie at home but if I go out with my friends of course I drink.
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Old 2003-12-05, 10:59   Link #53
u&t
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Oh and today is friday btw.

Promised a friend we'll be going to the karoke bar. No way in hell I'm doing that being sober.
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Old 2003-12-05, 11:39   Link #54
eXistenZ
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drinkin is fun, i dont drink all the time, hell its been 2 weeks since i last drank, could be 2 more weeks or 2 days or 2 months. i can drink socially, which means i drink for a buzz or i can go out and get totally hammered. ive never had a hangover yet and i been drinkin since i was 18 and now im 24.

i do smoke, and smokign is addictive, way more then alcohol will ever be. i know i smoke sometimes just because im bored, im not craving it but i do it to pass the time. ive tried quitting twice, i lasted 3 to 4 days both times.

if i dont have a smoke within every 3 hours i feel like tense and irritable.

if your an alcoholic which you say is more addicting, its not addiction that makes alcoholics, it the fact that they are trying to hide from a problem, and to them if they keep drinking they wont have to face that problem.

smoking = addiction
alcoholism = problems
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Old 2003-12-05, 11:51   Link #55
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Beer is nasty
Ciggerettes kills your taste

Just stick to soda -.0

Im not allowed to drink for a couple more years, had a couple of mouthfuls before - nasty stuff.... I dont get how you people can drink it
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Old 2003-12-06, 09:38   Link #56
NenMaster
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i dont drink that often but when i do i dont get pissed
maybe i should just get ratted, i aint been in along time, hehe
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Old 2003-12-06, 10:44   Link #57
Stofzuiger
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w00t, I'm 16, must be the youngest person who can drink alchohol legal in this topic

anyway: I don't really drink alchohol, yes at parties I do drink some, but I just don't like the "man-I'm-like-totally-wasted"-feel, I've been like that once... and boy... it sucked (had to work at 6AM the next day )

as for nicotine, I smoke for 2 years now, but I don't really have the intention to give it up it the near future (stupid me )

as for weed: only very very rarely, it is legal here... but I don't really like it.

everything else: don't touch that sh*t man!
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Old 2003-12-06, 14:57   Link #58
outlaw55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stofzuiger
w00t, I'm 16, must be the youngest person who can drink alchohol legal in this topic

anyway: I don't really drink alchohol, yes at parties I do drink some, but I just don't like the "man-I'm-like-totally-wasted"-feel, I've been like that once... and boy... it sucked (had to work at 6AM the next day )

as for nicotine, I smoke for 2 years now, but I don't really have the intention to give it up it the near past (stupid me )

as for weed: only very very rarely, it is legal here... but I don't really like it.

everything else: don't touch that sh*t man!
heh, they have a pill for that wasted feeling now, LOL

altho i don't like drinking, waste of time making it, everyone could drink ANY OTHER type of drink and it would be just as good, i just don't understand the point behind something that can be so destructive...
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Old 2003-12-06, 15:34   Link #59
Asura
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hmm... i'm over the legal limit for alcohol use, and yet i don't drink much.. let's say.. 1-2 cans to none in a year..

cigs... said it already in some other thread that i've smoke since in 2nd grader..so, pretty much my taste buds are gone..if anything's wierd.. it'd be my feeling much healthier when i smoke..hey, i smoke and i still run 5 miles everyday, while smoking. I just keep up on the vitamin C and milk intake.
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Old 2003-12-07, 03:45   Link #60
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Feel Drunk Instantly!!!

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