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View Poll Results: Who would win?
Sarutobi in this Prime 103 91.15%
Orochimaru 10 8.85%
Draw 0 0%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-09-07, 15:21   Link #21
BANTF*
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I think the 3rd, beacasue if orochimaru would think that he would win why then summon the previously hokages?
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:22   Link #22
Nine Devil
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3rd in his prime would have owned Orochimaru, even if he used Edo tensei or whatever. He was just too old.
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:36   Link #23
ChronoReverse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace firefist
I believe Jiraiya said the 4th was the strongest ninja of all time,and remeber when Anko was talking to the 3rd she said 'if only the 4th was here'.

Yes, but I interpreted that as since the 3rd is so old having the much younger 4th would've been good. And I don't remember anyone (including Jiraiya) saying that the 4th is the strongest ninja of all time.
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:45   Link #24
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sarutobi 100% win

all he has to do is....................

Kage bunshin mixed with kage shuriken....END
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Old 2004-09-07, 15:53   Link #25
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no doubt the 3rd. oro already admitted it during the fight am i not rite? 3rd was just too old.
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Old 2004-09-07, 21:04   Link #26
UserName
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Oro said it himself quite clearly, "If you were at least 10 years younger". Oro knows that if the 3rd was younger he would've lost. There is no debating it.

And also Jiraiya never said the 4th was the 'strongest' did he? I don't think anyone ever said he was the strongest. Maybe 'greatest'. Greatest != Strongest.

The 3rd was also known to be the strongest ninja ever in his prime, even Oro says so.

So you don't even have to argue about it, seeing as how all evidence points towards 3rd in Prime > >>>>>> > Oro.
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Old 2004-09-07, 22:06   Link #27
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I'm gonna have to say my sweet Orochimaru-sama. Orochimaru-sama was simply playing with Sarutobi throughout the whole fight, enjoying his time and showing off some of his new forbidden techniques. He didn't even get into the fight too much himself but stood behind his two hokage, laughing. He kinda got a little serious when Enma was summoned, but it seems that he realized after a while that it wasn't as big a problem he thought it would be at first. He goes on playing with him and suddenly POOF Sarutobi pulls off the Shiki Fuujin. This is the only reason the 3rd was able to hurt Orochimaru-sama in the first place, to use the Shiki Fuujin which bested even the Kyuubi. Clearly, Orochimaru-sama could've finished the geezer off quickly before the Shiki Fuujin started, if only he had taken the fight seriously from the start.

The difference in strength is too big, I can't see how Sarutobi would be able to win even if he was in his prime. Orochimaru-sama was even able to hold his own together with Kabuto against Tsunade and Jiraiya (sure, Jiraiya was drugged, but that drug is pretty much nothing compared to sealed arms). Orochimaru-sama is hands down, the strongest. If you don't remember the Hokage fight the way I do, watch it over and I'm sure you'll notice just how much Orochimaru-sama is playing with him. Many people seem to forget he did so though, since we got like 6 eps with Orochimaru-sama whining about the Shiki Fuujin after it was first initiated.

And I can't remember Orochimaru-sama saying Sarutobi beating him if he was younger, I remember him saying it would be a more fair fight, but no more than that.

Also... wouldn't Manda be able to eat Enma pretty easily?
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Old 2004-09-07, 22:55   Link #28
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oro will get served..bad..
sarutobi is the professor...he will school oro for sure..
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:01   Link #29
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
I'm gonna have to say my sweet Orochimaru-sama. Orochimaru-sama was simply playing with Sarutobi throughout the whole fight, enjoying his time and showing off some of his new forbidden techniques. He didn't even get into the fight too much himself but stood behind his two hokage, laughing. He kinda got a little serious when Enma was summoned, but it seems that he realized after a while that it wasn't as big a problem he thought it would be at first. He goes on playing with him and suddenly POOF Sarutobi pulls off the Shiki Fuujin. This is the only reason the 3rd was able to hurt Orochimaru-sama in the first place, to use the Shiki Fuujin which bested even the Kyuubi. Clearly, Orochimaru-sama could've finished the geezer off quickly before the Shiki Fuujin started, if only he had taken the fight seriously from the start.

The difference in strength is too big, I can't see how Sarutobi would be able to win even if he was in his prime. Orochimaru-sama was even able to hold his own together with Kabuto against Tsunade and Jiraiya (sure, Jiraiya was drugged, but that drug is pretty much nothing compared to sealed arms). Orochimaru-sama is hands down, the strongest. If you don't remember the Hokage fight the way I do, watch it over and I'm sure you'll notice just how much Orochimaru-sama is playing with him. Many people seem to forget he did so though, since we got like 6 eps with Orochimaru-sama whining about the Shiki Fuujin after it was first initiated.

And I can't remember Orochimaru-sama saying Sarutobi beating him if he was younger, I remember him saying it would be a more fair fight, but no more than that.

Also... wouldn't Manda be able to eat Enma pretty easily?
OMG fan gilr! away with you!
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:03   Link #30
UserName
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
I'm gonna have to say my sweet Orochimaru-sama. Orochimaru-sama was simply playing with Sarutobi throughout the whole fight, enjoying his time and showing off some of his new forbidden techniques. He didn't even get into the fight too much himself but stood behind his two hokage, laughing. He kinda got a little serious when Enma was summoned, but it seems that he realized after a while that it wasn't as big a problem he thought it would be at first. He goes on playing with him and suddenly POOF Sarutobi pulls off the Shiki Fuujin. This is the only reason the 3rd was able to hurt Orochimaru-sama in the first place, to use the Shiki Fuujin which bested even the Kyuubi. Clearly, Orochimaru-sama could've finished the geezer off quickly before the Shiki Fuujin started, if only he had taken the fight seriously from the start.

The difference in strength is too big, I can't see how Sarutobi would be able to win even if he was in his prime. Orochimaru-sama was even able to hold his own together with Kabuto against Tsunade and Jiraiya (sure, Jiraiya was drugged, but that drug is pretty much nothing compared to sealed arms). Orochimaru-sama is hands down, the strongest. If you don't remember the Hokage fight the way I do, watch it over and I'm sure you'll notice just how much Orochimaru-sama is playing with him. Many people seem to forget he did so though, since we got like 6 eps with Orochimaru-sama whining about the Shiki Fuujin after it was first initiated.

And I can't remember Orochimaru-sama saying Sarutobi beating him if he was younger, I remember him saying it would be a more fair fight, but no more than that.

Also... wouldn't Manda be able to eat Enma pretty easily?
The only reason Sarutobi may not have been able to hurt Oro was becuase he had his hands full with 2 hokages... and if you consider that Oro wasn't able to hurt Sarutobi also... He wasn't exactly playing around, he didn't need to do anything because once again he had 2 hokages fighitng the 3rd. It wasn't Oro's fight really if you really think about it. How could Oro have finished him for the start? We don't know that. The 3rd still could have given him a good fight if it were strictly 1 vs. 1. You assume things. Oro able to own his own against Tsunade and Jiraiya? Hm... Once Tsunade got over her blood phobia... she hit Oro once and the fight was over. They ran away... It was like a Jounin facing an Academy Student. Jiraiya was drugged, but with seal arms Oro was able to make it up with a JOunin that can do his jutsu for him. Jiraiya had no replacement. And also if you failed to notice the 3rd was about 70 years old in that fight...

Why do you even have to think about it? oro himself said he will lose and Oro himself called Sarutobi the God of the Shinobi in his prime. The 3rd was the strongest out of all ninjas when he was in his prime.

Also consider the first fight Oro had against the 3rd if you call it that. Oro simply ran away... He knew that he would be nothing to him.

Why do I bother?
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:24   Link #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
OMG fan gilr! away with you!
Damn right, and I'm proud of it too :P Orochimaru-sama's only fangirl ;P

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
The only reason Sarutobi may not have been able to hurt Oro was becuase he had his hands full with 2 hokages... and if you consider that Oro wasn't able to hurt Sarutobi also... He wasn't exactly playing around, he didn't need to do anything because once again he had 2 hokages fighitng the 3rd.
He could use attack jutsu, but he didn't. He just watched his brilliant revived two hokage fight Sarutobi, smiling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
It wasn't Oro's fight really if you really think about it. How could Oro have finished him for the start? We don't know that. The 3rd still could have given him a good fight if it were strictly 1 vs. 1. You assume things.
If he can bring people back from the dead, is it wrong to assume he has nice attack jutsu as well? Oh and... I don't see how Enma would defeat Manda, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Oro able to own his own against Tsunade and Jiraiya? Hm... Once Tsunade got over her blood phobia... she hit Oro once and the fight was over. They ran away... It was like a Jounin facing an Academy Student.
Now this is a touchy subject for me, since I like Tsunade so much too :P but yeah, she finally was able to hit him and obviously he's pretty much finished then - anyone would be. Though really, the way he has been moving around even with sealed arms I'd say she wouldn't've hit him with that kick (and thus not weakened him so she could hit him later) if it wasn't that her blood phobia ended so suddenly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Jiraiya was drugged, but with seal arms Oro was able to make it up with a JOunin that can do his jutsu for him. Jiraiya had no replacement. And also if you failed to notice the 3rd was about 70 years old in that fight...
All Kabuto did for him was help him summon Manda, the rest was Orochimaru-sama on his own. And yes Sarutobi was a geezer, but seeing the difference in level when he's 70 I doubt he'd win even if he was in his prime, albeit it would be a much more fair fight - Orochimaru-sama is no god... yet ^_^x

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Why do you even have to think about it? oro himself said he will lose and Oro himself called Sarutobi the God of the Shinobi in his prime. The 3rd was the strongest out of all ninjas when he was in his prime.
When did he say this? The only thing that comes to my mind is the line before Orochimaru-sama takes off his male face and goes "It's so sad... that not even you, who was once called the Shinobi's God, in the end couldn't defeat aging". Mmmm Orochimaru-sama... ^_^x

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Also consider the first fight Oro had against the 3rd if you call it that. Oro simply ran away... He knew that he would be nothing to him.
Yes, but back then he was nothing compared to what he is now, I think. He surely wasn't as pretty back then, at least :P

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Originally Posted by UserName
Why do I bother?
My boyfriend have asked himself the same thing many many times, and he still has yet to find an answer ;P
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:37   Link #32
UserName
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Originally Posted by Kidd
He could use attack jutsu, but he didn't. He just watched his brilliant revived two hokage fight Sarutobi, smiling
So you assume he can use one? Don't assuem things. How about I assume that Sarutobi had an attack where he can perfectly transform into Kyuubi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
If he can bring people back from the dead, is it wrong to assume he has nice attack jutsu as well? Oh and... I don't see how Enma would defeat Manda, really.
If he can bring people back from teh dead with very careful planning and about a few months of preparation is it wrong to assume? Yes. Don't assume things. You don't see how Enma would defeat Manda? Well then how could say Oro deafet Mnada? How could say Tsunade defeat Manda? Enma appearantly has a very nice weapon that he can manipulate and he can do all the jutsu he wants. Who knows maybe one as high powered as Edo Tensei. That's an assumption, just like you are assuming things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
Now this is a touchy subject for me, since I like Tsunade so much too :P but yeah, she finally was able to hit him and obviously he's pretty much finished then - anyone would be. Though really, the way he has been moving around even with sealed arms I'd say she wouldn't've hit him with that kick (and thus not weakened him so she could hit him later) if it wasn't that her blood phobia ended so suddenly.
You only watch the anime? But what 'really' happened was here getting over her Blood Phobia then shutting Manda up and then she immediatly went to Oro hit him once(he didn't dodge one bit) and ended the thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
All Kabuto did for him was help him summon Manda, the rest was Orochimaru-sama on his own. And yes Sarutobi was a geezer, but seeing the difference in level when he's 70 I doubt he'd win even if he was in his prime, albeit it would be a much more fair fight - Orochimaru-sama is no god... yet ^_^x
So what did Oro do actually when he didn't have Manda? Huh? Tell me. There wasn't much of a difference in level really if you saw it it seemed that if it was 1 vs. 1 Oro would have his hands full maybe even lose. Orochimaru said it himself "If you were only 10 years younger you could've easily killed me" Look at that flashback where Oro ran away from him because he knew he couldnt' stand up to him. Look at Iruka and everyones comment about Old age weakening him a lot. So you say a boxer is as strong as he is in his 70s as he is in his 20s?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
When did he say this? The only thing that comes to my mind is the line before Orochimaru-sama takes off his male face and goes "It's so sad... that not even you, who was once called the Shinobi's God, in the end couldn't defeat aging". Mmmm Orochimaru-sama... ^_^x
"Shinobi's God" "Couldn't defeat Aging" as he once was the God of all Shinobi but age weakened him. Or are you too stupid to think?

Yes, but back then he was nothing compared to what he is now, I think. He surely wasn't as pretty back then, at least :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
My boyfriend have asked himself the same thing many many times, and he still has yet to find an answer ;P
Funny... Your imagination won't even answer you....(meh don't care if I'm being rude right now).
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Old 2004-09-08, 00:59   Link #33
VMLM3
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Originally Posted by Kidd
He could use attack jutsu, but he didn't. He just watched his brilliant revived two hokage fight Sarutobi, smiling
This one has already been answered before, Sarutobi wasn't called the professor for no good reason, if we can assume Orochimaru has some good attack jutsus we can also assume that with his immense knowledge of jutsus Sarutobi can easily come up with a counter.
And by the way, Orochimaru does say that if Sarutobi where youger he would kill him, I'm just too lazy to look for the exact quote right now.
And you don't see how Enma could take on Manda? Ok, Enma in the form of the diamond hard pole can stretch to any legth he desires, not to mention change his shape. so first off Manda can't even touch Sarutobi because he has Enma to protect him, so let's say Manda gulps up Enma, Enma instantly stretchs to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL size and suddenly no more Manda. But I don't really like comparing the summons much, the fact is we don't know much about either Manda or Enma, though Enma was described as being a match even for the other summon lords.

edit: Damn, took too long to post...
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Old 2004-09-08, 01:05   Link #34
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I certainly think that Sarutobi would of won, even if it were him in his old age. If he did not have to fight the 1st and 2nd hokage first... he would of had enough chakra to put the smack down on oro.

And concerning the 4th and the 3rd being strong.. i heard both.. that the 4th was the greatest, and that the 3rd is calle dhte professor.... also i heard that he was the strongest. But in my opinion.. the 4th is incredibly strong to be able to seal a demon.. tahts probably terorized the world for thousdands of years. Plus the 4th was also very young to be a hokage... and Sarutobi even learned from him, the death god justu.
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Old 2004-09-08, 01:09   Link #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
So you assume he can use one? Don't assuem things. How about I assume that Sarutobi had an attack where he can perfectly transform into Kyuubi?
Come on, even Sasuke knows simple Katon jutsu, thinking Orochimaru-sama doesn't know some attack jutsu is just stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
If he can bring people back from teh dead with very careful planning and about a few months of preparation is it wrong to assume? Yes. Don't assume things.
Didn't seem to take much preparation to me. All it required was sacrifices. Refer to how Orochimaru-sama and Kabuto spoke to Tsunade when they first met. There was a week's gap between their first and second meeting, but that wasn't because Orochimaru-sama needed to prepare anything; it was because she needed time to find sacrifices and also decide upon whether she'd heal or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
You don't see how Enma would defeat Manda? Well then how could say Oro deafet Mnada? How could say Tsunade defeat Manda? Enma appearantly has a very nice weapon that he can manipulate and he can do all the jutsu he wants. Who knows maybe one as high powered as Edo Tensei. That's an assumption, just like you are assuming things.
I assumed that since he knows a super duper technique he also knows basic jutsu that a genin can learn (the only thing that's special with sasuke knowing katon jutsu is his amount of chakra and nothing else), you're stretching things quite much. But seriously, come on, Enma couldn't take out Orochimaru-sama on his own from what we saw (he couldn't even free himself from a couple of snakes holding him down), how could he defeat something at least 10 times bigger than him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
You only watch the anime? But what 'really' happened was here getting over her Blood Phobia then shutting Manda up and then she immediatly went to Oro hit him once(he didn't dodge one bit) and ended the thing.
I watch it as I go on subbing it, and I don't read the manga, no. But alright, I can admit that a fully powered Tsunade can work wonders against Orochimaru-sama without his hands. I can retract my previous statement if you wish, but still, he did fine against Jiraiya 1on1, he even had the upper hand even though he had no arms and Jiraiya just had worse arms than usually. I'd say that's pretty impressive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
So what did Oro do actually when he didn't have Manda? Huh? Tell me. There wasn't much of a difference in level really if you saw it it seemed that if it was 1 vs. 1 Oro would have his hands full maybe even lose.
He bit Jiraiya's neck, penetrating Jiraiya's defensive jutsu and was jumping around fighting Jiraiya like there was no tomorrow. Also he was moving around quite a bit using his tongue and slicing up things with his sword.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Orochimaru said it himself "If you were only 10 years younger you could've easily killed me" Look at that flashback where Oro ran away from him because he knew he couldnt' stand up to him. Look at Iruka and everyones comment about Old age weakening him a lot. So you say a boxer is as strong as he is in his 70s as he is in his 20s?
I didn't say he was as strong when he was 70, I straight out said it was a big difference. I just said that I don't think it would be a big difference -enough-. Yes, this is an assumption, but just as much as an assumption as yours saying he would defeat Orochimaru-sama. I'm checking for this line of Orochimaru-sama's in episode 72 right now (you said it was in the ep with the flashback). So far the only mention of "10 years" has been Orochimaru-sama saying he left the village 10 years ago and that it had been hard on him during that time (obviously sarcasm). There, I didn't watch the whole episode, but I went looking for it with 5 second steps, didn't find it. Please tell me in which ep he says this, because I honestly don't remember it (and doubt he ever did say it that way).

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
"Shinobi's God" "Couldn't defeat Aging" as he once was the God of all Shinobi but age weakened him. Or are you too stupid to think?
Now, no need to use such wording. Yes, he has been weakened by age, the thing Orochimaru-sama laughs at is that even though he was supposed to be such a Shinobi's God, he still couldn't figure out a way to fool death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Funny... Your imagination won't even answer you....(meh don't care if I'm being rude right now).
Oro? You said something funny, and I continued it in the same vein. What's up here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
This one has already been answered before, Sarutobi wasn't called the professor for no good reason, if we can assume Orochimaru has some good attack jutsus we can also assume that with his immense knowledge of jutsus Sarutobi can easily come up with a counter.
Yes, but while fighting two other hokage on the same time? Seems a little too much work. While one cat can't take down a bear, 50 surely can, so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
And by the way, Orochimaru does say that if Sarutobi where youger he would kill him, I'm just too lazy to look for the exact quote right now.
I still need the episode number to believe that. An explanation of where would be favoured as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMLM3
And you don't see how Enma could take on Manda? Ok, Enma in the form of the diamond hard pole can stretch to any legth he desires, not to mention change his shape.
Stretch to -any- size? When did anyone say such a thing? I wonder why Sarutobi then went so close-quarters with Orochimaru-sama if he could simply have stayed in the background all the time. (though it is when he tries attack from a little bigger distance that Enma gets countered, but that's beyond the point).
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Old 2004-09-08, 01:40   Link #36
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
Yes, but while fighting two other hokage on the same time? Seems a little too much work. While one cat can't take down a bear, 50 surely can, so to speak.
Well, he's certainly fast enough. He managed to blow up both summons in about 2 seconds flat. He was able to hold on to all three of them and seal two of them, I'd say he was certainly fast enough to execute a counter for any jutsu Oro might pull. Besides that, it wouldn't really work to Oro's advantage, Sarutobi is fighting in close quarters with his two summons, he has a bigger chance of affecting his own people than he does of hitting Sarutobi, worse if Saurtobi purposefully stays out of Oro's line of fire. Oh and by the way, about how long it might have taken Oro to get his summons ready, I'm pretty sure it takes more than just sacrifices. For starters he had to take the dead souls of three hokages and trap them he then had to make them do his bidding unquestioningly (remember summons are not necessarily obligated to obey their summoners), then the three summons seem to be made out of some sort of dirt, he had them in those coffins, which seem to be a big part of it, and there's bound to be a lot more to it. Summoning the undead soul of three hokages isn't something you do with atleast a couple of weeks of preparation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
I still need the episode number to believe that. An explanation of where would be favoured as well.
Sorry, I'll look for it when it isn't 1 am in the morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd
Stretch to -any- size? When did anyone say such a thing? I wonder why Sarutobi then went so close-quarters with Orochimaru-sama if he could simply have stayed in the background all the time. (though it is when he tries attack from a little bigger distance that Enma gets countered, but that's beyond the point).
This is why I don't like talking about the summons, it's all too hypothetical, all we really know about Enma is what we saw and that he was described that he could be a match to any of the summon lords, which means we haveto assume he'd give Manda some degree of trouble. Let's not forget Enma seems to be the only summon who can pull off hand seals.
Atleast the reason why Sarutobi tried to get in to close quarter fighting with Oro isn't hard to explain, it's the same reason Oro stays away from Sarutobi and prefers to let both his summons wear him down. Sarutobi has an obvious advantage, even at his old age, in close quarter combat; especially after summoning Enma.
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Old 2004-09-08, 02:14   Link #37
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I'm just curious, how do you guys think Sarutobi in his prime would have defeated Oro+1st+2nd? And how would he have overcomed the darkness jutsu?
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Old 2004-09-08, 05:57   Link #38
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Originally Posted by snarl
I'm just curious, how do you guys think Sarutobi in his prime would have defeated Oro+1st+2nd? And how would he have overcomed the darkness jutsu?
He could have beaten all of them, reading come come paradise.
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Old 2004-09-08, 07:16   Link #39
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If orochimaru actually tried in that battle, instead of laughing and toying with Sarutobi ( i think somewhere he actually wanted to beat him this way) then Sarutobi would have had no chance at all. Oro actually chucked away his sword and attacked the third with taijutsu at one point.

And ALL of you know that the way he beat the darkness everywhere no jutsu was bullshit!

He couldnt see and he ran and grabbed 2 hokages without any resistance?

ok thats just silly and u know it.
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Old 2004-09-08, 07:31   Link #40
Nine Devil
Master(Vicious)'s Padawan
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by eviljiraiya
ok thats just silly and u know it.
You know actually this thread is silly, 3rd in his prime would own everybody.
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