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Old 2007-12-18, 22:18   Link #161
TheNewbSwordsMan
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Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07 View Post
I think he may be able to take her out. Since she a close range type fighter, I dont think it would be too difficult for him to hit her with FRS
cept ur forgetting she has a jutsu that can make her completely invincible for what? 30 seconds? his Futon rasenshurikan lasts for a whole 3 seconds, and even if he connects, he cant use it again, since it whipes him out as well as him opponent, one punch from her and hes dead. Dont forget , orochimaru was a brother to her, the only reason she couldnt kill him was because she didnt want to, she was just trying to protect naruto, im pretty sure if he was a stranger she would have killed him with one punch.

oh an less u forget, theres three sannin, not two and then tsunade, she wasnt just sitting around holding hands and serving up cakes vs hanzo, of the three sannin, shes probably the best taijustsu user and shes stronger than any hokage b4 her in terms of physical strength, naruto is also a close ranger fighter, so guess who would win in that situation? a genin naruto or a hokage tsunade? i dont know why ppl like to over look her so much, is it just bc shes a chick? lol.
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Old 2007-12-18, 22:20   Link #162
Mistacloudstrife
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Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
And @ mistacloudstrife you are WRONG. Without the Kyuubi, naruto would ahve lost countless battles by now. It is only due to the kyuubi's immense chakra and healing powers that Naruto has survived until now. Recalling the chuunin exams, Naruto's tenketsu were sealed by neji's Gentle Fist taijutsu, and it was only due to the kyuubi's power that Naruto made a comeback and won. Kakashi has specifically stated (to himself in his own thoughts) that naruto's miraculous healing powers were due to the kyuubi. I mean, he's not a medical ninja, so what could it be? Also, Naruto has NO CONTROL over kyuubi's powers of healing. Until his training with Jiraiya during the time-skip, he in all likelihood didn't know at all. Sorry, but Naruto in general is completely oblivious to everything that happens around him. His character is protected by what we like to call "character shield", and most of his fights end in a deux ex machina kyuubi-fest anyway.
Um if you were talking about this...

Quote:
Yes, because the kyuubi chakra moving on it's own in an unpredicable manner while Naruto does his own thing isn't the Kyuubi at all. IT'S ALL NARUTO BECAUSE NARUTO IS ****ING KICK ASS and the Kyuubi is just a side character that doesn't really matter because Naruto can fight perfectly fine without the Kyuubi. No, he wouldn't have died at all even if the Kyuubi never stepped into his battles. The fact that red chakra appears in alot of his battles just means that Naruto is angry and thus his chakra changes. Not Kyuubi powers at all. And the fact that Naruto regenerates uber fast is because he's SO UBER MEGA ULTRA GOOD AT CONCENTRATING HIS CHAKRA INTO CURING HIMSELF.
...that was all sarcasm. I thought I was being pretty obvious about it. o.O;;
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Old 2007-12-18, 22:38   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
Yes, because the kyuubi chakra moving on it's own in an unpredicable manner while Naruto does his own thing isn't the Kyuubi at all. IT'S ALL NARUTO BECAUSE NARUTO IS ****ING KICK ASS and the Kyuubi is just a side character that doesn't really matter because Naruto can fight perfectly fine without the Kyuubi. No, he wouldn't have died at all even if the Kyuubi never stepped into his battles. The fact that red chakra appears in alot of his battles just means that Naruto is angry and thus his chakra changes. Not Kyuubi powers at all. And the fact that Naruto regenerates uber fast is because he's SO UBER MEGA ULTRA GOOD AT CONCENTRATING HIS CHAKRA INTO CURING HIMSELF.
-Congrats ou just described the perfect case of someone using demonic power that they have acquired. With supernatural forces come supernatural perks. I thought that with all the different manga that are out there people would have finally come to understand that. Naruto acquired all these benefits from having the Kyuubi imprisoned and later on incorporated into his bodily structure. This is why he heals faster than others (even when the Kyuubi chakra isn't being used), posseses an immense chakra pool, has whiskers on his cheeks and so on. After 15 years of merging and existing in one body this is the result of that. And yes Naruto can fight just fine without relying heavily on that extra chakra reserve that he has. Only problem is that they are not that exciting, at least according to Kishimoto.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
Bugs. Shino. Dog. Kiba. Just because the bugs live inside of him doesn't mean that they are one person. If I have a tapeworm in my stomach, the tapeworm and I aren't one being. And Shino telling the bugs to make a spear would be more like telling Akamaru to to eat a pill and turn into Kiba.
-If that tapeworm is living off of your body (it's fluids, heat, meat and so forth) and you in turn are dependant on the worm remaining there then you are one being. If one cannot exist without the other then I'm sorry but you are one an the same. Bugs, dogs, demonic chakra it matters not. What matters is how they are used in the end.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
WTF, aside from the genki dama, Goku turning any SSJ form comes from the CHI IN HIS BODY. NATURAL CHI THAT HE HIMSELF GAINED THROUGH TRAINING.

And Ichigo gained his powers AT FIRST by making a contract with Rukia. Later he gained his own power, or more like he REALIZED HIS OWN INCREDIBLE POWER through... WHAT WAS THAT? TRAINING.
-Not SSJ 4. He develped that when the moon rays hit him (an external force) and he incorporated them into his body causing his ascention to SSJ 4 (well the monkey first then the actual SSJ). The same goes for Ichigo. He incorporated Rukia's power into his own, then he lost them and was once again forced to obtain them. The same goes for Naruto. He was implanted with the Kyuubi, he grew with it and after 15 years incorporated it into his combat style, through his own TRAINING if that was what I needed to say to your unsatisfied mind. Fact is after 15 years of training with it and using it that power rightfully belongs to him to do with as he will.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
And all I hear from you is, OMG I MUST PROTECT MY PRECIOUS NARUTO AND KSHIMOTO FROM THIS FIEND! OMGz!! And yes. he wins by farts and the power of the Kyuubi. =) That is what I wholeheartedly believe.
-Well if I didn't then someone else would have taken my place. And if I always managed to get my points across to people like you I'd be mighty bored. At least this way I get to have some fun. So thank you Mistacloudstrife, thank you for giving me this opportunity to unload my real-life frustrations on your arguments by taking them apart point by point. By the way: Naruto may win his battles this way but at least he doesn't use an overpowered eye that can kill you in one glance. He actually has to put in an effort.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
And that's what I'm getting at. Kishimoto made a CHEAP MAIN CHARACTER. Just stating facts man. Naruto trains all the time and he still needs the power of the Kyuubi to win his battles for him. Who cares if he's still in control. ANY ONE OF THE ****ING CHARACTERS IN THE ANIME COULD WIN THE SAME BATTLES IF THEY HAD THE KYUUBI IN THEIR BODY. It's the Kyuubi winning the battles, not Naruto. If you use the Kyuubi's powers to win, it's basically the Kyuubi winning the battle.
-Is that so? I seem to recall Naruto's failures early on despite having harbored the Kyuubi for at least 12 years. Judging from your claim he should have been the most uber ninja since he was in his diapers just because the Kyuubi exists within him. But you know as well as I do that Naruto doesn't win everything. He nearly died when he fought Kabuto (having the Kyuubi didn't really help there). He will also die if the Kyuubi is ever extracted and that is no benefit. Any character could win the same battle if they had the Kyuubi? No they could not. Naruto is not invincible and neither is the Kyuubi. The fact that it was sealed by Yondaime Hokage, when it was at it's most powerful, is proof that it is not invincible. Ergo your argument here has reached an end.
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Old 2007-12-18, 22:49   Link #164
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Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Maybe, but Naruto's aim is crap without a distraction. Besides, Tsunade would only need to land a single hit on Naruto to finish the fight, and if history is any indication, Naruto isn't very good at dodging and tends to jump into a fight head-first with no consideration of the consequences. Most of his fights he only won because of his inhuman endurance and ability to absorb ridiculous amounts of damage that anyone but a jinchuuriki would not be able to handle.
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Originally Posted by TheNewbSwordsMan View Post
cept ur forgetting she has a jutsu that can make her completely invincible for what? 30 seconds? his Futon rasenshurikan lasts for a whole 3 seconds, and even if he connects, he cant use it again, since it whipes him out as well as him opponent, one punch from her and hes dead. Dont forget , orochimaru was a brother to her, the only reason she couldnt kill him was because she didnt want to, she was just trying to protect naruto, im pretty sure if he was a stranger she would have killed him with one punch.

oh an less u forget, theres three sannin, not two and then tsunade, she wasnt just sitting around holding hands and serving up cakes vs hanzo, of the three sannin, shes probably the best taijustsu user and shes stronger than any hokage b4 her in terms of physical strength, naruto is also a close ranger fighter, so guess who would win in that situation? a genin naruto or a hokage tsunade? i dont know why ppl like to over look her so much, is it just bc shes a chick? lol.
I had already taken everything guys said into consideration. I just assumed he would make a a few hundred clones to distract her while he tries to hit her with the FRS. He does the clone thing in every single battle he engages in so its a pretty safe bet don't you think?
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Old 2007-12-18, 23:05   Link #165
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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
And that's what I'm getting at. Kishimoto made a CHEAP MAIN CHARACTER. Just stating facts man. Naruto trains all the time and he still needs the power of the Kyuubi to win his battles for him. Who cares if he's still in control. ANY ONE OF THE ****ING CHARACTERS IN THE ANIME COULD WIN THE SAME BATTLES IF THEY HAD THE KYUUBI IN THEIR BODY. It's the Kyuubi winning the battles, not Naruto. If you use the Kyuubi's powers to win, it's basically the Kyuubi winning the battle.
if any other characters had the kyuubi put in them they would die, cause kyuubi's chakra is poison to other people.

you keep talking about kyuubi keeps winning naruto's battles.... he did not win that much battles with it.
from the top of my head:
1at kyuubi battle vs Haku --> technically a win
2nd Kyuubi usage vs Orochimaru --> no win
3rd Kyubi battle vs neji -->win
4th kyuubi battle vs garaa-->no win (tie)
5th Kyuubu battle vs sasuke -->no win sasuke got up first(could have killed him)
6th kyuubi usage vs deidara -->no win cause deidara escaped
7th Kyubi usage vs orochimaru ---> no win orochimaru escapped

wins/no wins = 2/5
kishimot has been carefull to balance things out. he knows that kyuubi gives naruto a shitload of chakra so he doesn't give naruto brains or jutsu to pwn with it. truth his when naruto uses kyuubi chakra he actullay evens out the playing field to make up for his lack of brains and tactics.

in bleach ichigo gets extra raitsu from zangetsu is that fair..? the hollow powers ichigo has can also be comapared to kyuubi, just like naruto ichigo wasn't born with it but accquired it. its part of ichigo's soul but yet a diffrent entitty, who just like kyuubi wants to take over/be set free and he keeps calling ichigo weak.

so all naruto has to do is got to his inner world beat the shit out of kyuubi. then he will be able to control his vaizard powers
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Old 2007-12-18, 23:13   Link #166
Mistacloudstrife
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-Congrats ou just described the perfect case of someone using demonic power that they have acquired. With supernatural forces come supernatural perks. I thought that with all the different manga that are out there people would have finally come to understand that. Naruto acquired all these benefits from having the Kyuubi imprisoned and later on incorporated into his bodily structure. This is why he heals faster than others (even when the Kyuubi chakra isn't being used), posseses an immense chakra pool, has whiskers on his cheeks and so on. After 15 years of merging and existing in one body this is the result of that. And yes Naruto can fight just fine without relying heavily on that extra chakra reserve that he has. Only problem is that they are not that exciting, at least according to Kishimoto.

-If that tapeworm is living off of your body (it's fluids, heat, meat and so forth) and you in turn are dependant on the worm remaining there then you are one being. If one cannot exist without the other then I'm sorry but you are one an the same. Bugs, dogs, demonic chakra it matters not. What matters is how they are used in the end.
Oh god no. If there is a parasite in my body and if I remove it the wrong way then I die, it's STILL not a part of my body, nor does it mean that I'm "one" with it.

And the same goes with the Kyuubi. They are two separate beings no matter how you put it. There are ways to separate the two, and as long as there are ways to separate the two aren't one being. One body, yes. One being, hell ****ing no.


Quote:
-Not SSJ 4. He develped that when the moon rays hit him (an external force) and he incorporated them into his body causing his ascention to SSJ 4 (well the monkey first then the actual SSJ). The same goes for Ichigo. He incorporated Rukia's power into his own, then he lost them and was once again forced to obtain them. The same goes for Naruto. He was implanted with the Kyuubi, he grew with it and after 15 years incorporated it into his combat style, through his own TRAINING if that was what I needed to say to your unsatisfied mind. Fact is after 15 years of training with it and using it that power rightfully belongs to him to do with as he will.
SSJ4? He can't turn SSJ4 without training. Not to mention that SSJ form is only capable with those who are from the Saiyan race. And the MOON is not where he gets his power.... the moon is the trigger, not an external force. It's like a werewolf, werewolves get stronger form looking at the moon but they don't take powers from the moon.

And Ichigo didn't have his own powers. He had Rukia's powers until he lost them. THEN he gained his own shinigami powers through training.

Basically Goku and Ichigo both gained their true powers through training and NOT some cheap gimmicky idea like the Kyuubi. And Naruto didn't train using the kyuubi powers until a long while afterwards. And then he trained NOT to use the kyuubi powers. HAH. But it's still used as the obvious cheap trump card time and time again.

Quote:
-Well if I didn't then someone else would have taken my place. And if I always managed to get my points across to people like you I'd be mighty bored. At least this way I get to have some fun. So thank you Mistacloudstrife, thank you for giving me this opportunity to unload my real-life frustrations on your arguments by taking them apart point by point. By the way: Naruto may win his battles this way but at least he doesn't use an overpowered eye that can kill you in one glance. He actually has to put in an effort.
Lol, point by point. And yeah, I'm actually having fun despite how many bold and caps I use. =P But I'm not having any real life frustrations, dabates that turn into arguments are just fun. But if the argument starts going around in circles too much I might get bored, so turn it up a bit would you? ^_~

And when Naruto tries and fails, the Kyuubi makes him win. =)

Quote:
-Is that so? I seem to recall Naruto's failures early on despite having harbored the Kyuubi for at least 12 years. Judging from your claim he should have been the most uber ninja since he was in his diapers just because the Kyuubi exists within him. But you know as well as I do that Naruto doesn't win everything. He nearly died when he fought Kabuto (having the Kyuubi didn't really help there). He will also die if the Kyuubi is ever extracted and that is no benefit. Any character could win the same battle if they had the Kyuubi? No they could not. Naruto is not invincible and neither is the Kyuubi. The fact that it was sealed by Yondaime Hokage, when it was at it's most powerful, is proof that it is not invincible. Ergo your argument here has reached an end.
Naruto didn't use the Kyuubi for a long time. IIRC it didn't come out until he was fighting Haku. But everytime Naruto is about to die, it comes out because harm to Naruto would probably mean harm to the kyuubi. So let me rephrase... if anyone had the Kyuubi, like Naruto, and were in a life and death battle, they would more than likely win. HaPPeh? Gud.




EDIT:
Quote:
if any other characters had the kyuubi put in them they would die, cause kyuubi's chakra is poison to other people.

you keep talking about kyuubi keeps winning naruto's battles.... he did not win that much battles with it.
from the top of my head:
1at kyuubi battle vs Haku --> technically a win
2nd Kyuubi usage vs Orochimaru --> no win
3rd Kyubi battle vs neji -->win
4th kyuubi battle vs garaa-->no win (tie)
5th Kyuubu battle vs sasuke -->no win sasuke got up first(could have killed him)
6th kyuubi usage vs deidara -->no win cause deidara escaped
7th Kyubi usage vs orochimaru ---> no win orochimaru escapped

wins/no wins = 2/5
kishimot has been carefull to balance things out. he knows that kyuubi gives naruto a shitload of chakra so he doesn't give naruto brains or jutsu to pwn with it. truth his when naruto uses kyuubi chakra he actullay evens out the playing field to make up for his lack of brains and tactics.

in bleach ichigo gets extra raitsu from zangetsu is that fair..? the hollow powers ichigo has can also be comapared to kyuubi, just like naruto ichigo wasn't born with it but accquired it. its part of ichigo's soul but yet a diffrent entitty, who just like kyuubi wants to take over/be set free and he keeps calling ichigo weak.

so all naruto has to do is got to his inner world beat the shit out of kyuubi. then he will be able to control his vaizard powers
The inner shinigami and zangetsu are PARTS OF ICHIGO's SOUL. They were born out of is own soul. They are Ichigo. Different form the Kyuubi. And Seriously, if Naruto went up againt the Kyuubi, do you you honestly think he could take him on? Not unless he has the Kyuubi's powers, HAHAHA.

And you're counting the fights where the OTHER PEOPLE ESCAPE? usually when someone escapes it's their loss, isn't it? And the fight with Naruto and Sasuke using the kyuubi. Naruto would have won that fight if he were aiming at something else besides the headband. But he was aiming at the headband the entire time and Sasuke got the better attack in. =P
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Old 2007-12-18, 23:34   Link #167
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Originally Posted by BlackShinobi07 View Post
I had already taken everything guys said into consideration. I just assumed he would make a a few hundred clones to distract her while he tries to hit her with the FRS. He does the clone thing in every single battle he engages in so its a pretty safe bet don't you think?
Ah, good point. I'll concede that dealing with hundreds of clones (and knowing Naruto, maybe THOUSANDS before he stops) would be difficult, even for Tsunade.
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Old 2007-12-19, 00:33   Link #168
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Oh god no. If there is a parasite in my body and if I remove it the wrong way then I die, it's STILL not a part of my body, nor does it mean that I'm "one" with it.

And the same goes with the Kyuubi. They are two separate beings no matter how you put it. There are ways to separate the two, and as long as there are ways to separate the two aren't one being. One body, yes. One being, hell ****ing no.
-In case you weren't aware parasites in nature are known to be symbiotic. As in they merge with their host over time eventually leading to the death of the host though Naruto's situation is a bit more complex than that. Regardless my opinion stands.

-The fact that Naruto will die as a result of the Kyuubi being extracted is proof the 2 are one entity. If the 2 were separate beings in one body then Naruto wouldn't have to die now would he? Did you ever watch the Exorcist? It would have been like that if it was true. The demon would have been removed and Naruto would be fine. But this isn't the case here now is it? Removing the Kyuubi from Naruto is like tearing a sheet of paper in half.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
SSJ4? He can't turn SSJ4 without training. Not to mention that SSJ form is only capable with those who are from the Saiyan race. And the MOON is not where he gets his power.... the moon is the trigger, not an external force. It's like a werewolf, werewolves get stronger form looking at the moon but they don't take powers from the moon.

And Ichigo didn't have his own powers. He had Rukia's powers until he lost them. THEN he gained his own shinigami powers through training.

Basically Goku and Ichigo both gained their true powers through training and NOT some cheap gimmicky idea like the Kyuubi. And Naruto didn't train using the kyuubi powers until a long while afterwards. And then he trained NOT to use the kyuubi powers. HAH. But it's still used as the obvious cheap trump card time and time again.
-Oh then why was Naruto able to control the Kyuubi chakra in him during his fight with Neji? Because he trained his ass off to do it that is why. Power takes many shapes and forms and it isn't bound to a single definition. It is ambiguous in nature and is thus diverse. Characters who have power use it in the ways they are told to use it so what's wrong with Naruto using demonic power he was given and has trained himself to use? It's no different than any samurai training to master the sword that was forged for them or a sniper training to perfect his head shots with a prototype sniper gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
Lol, point by point. And yeah, I'm actually having fun despite how many bold and caps I use. =P But I'm not having any real life frustrations, dabates that turn into arguments are just fun. But if the argument starts going around in circles too much I might get bored, so turn it up a bit would you? ^_~

And when Naruto tries and fails, the Kyuubi makes him win. =)

Naruto didn't use the Kyuubi for a long time. IIRC it didn't come out until he was fighting Haku. But everytime Naruto is about to die, it comes out because harm to Naruto would probably mean harm to the kyuubi. So let me rephrase... if anyone had the Kyuubi, like Naruto, and were in a life and death battle, they would more than likely win. HaPPeh? Gud.
-But that's the thing, it has always been with him, ever since he was born in fact. Since his birth it has been merging with him, little by little, for the last 15 years of his life. This is because of the way Yondaime's seal works. It was designed to allow small portions of that chakra to slowly leak out and merge with the boy's own. Knowing this explains why he had trouble controlling his own chakra (or still does) and why he's the only person who can do the Kage Bunshin seemingly without limits. Like I mentioned to another poster, Naruto cannot stop molding the Kyuubi's chakra with his own because of the way the seal works. He can't help it. His body has been cnditioned to use that specific chakra. No other human being can handle that specific chakra (Yamato is surprised Naruto is even capable of doing it in the first place). It comes out more frequently when it is most convnient and that generally means life or death situations which makes sense.

-"More than likely" is not the same as "will win". Naruto hasn't won every fight he was in by activating the Kyuubi chakra instead of his own. He has used it in fights he felt it would be most beneficial (albeit on instinct at first). It is a power he alone posseses. Besides we are talking about life and death situations here. All beings in this world seek to protect their own existance. No one wants to die. Not Naruto, not the Kyuubi and so on. What's wrong with using any means to ensure your survival and the survival of others if it is within your power to do so?
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Old 2007-12-19, 00:34   Link #169
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What is the difference between naruto using Kyubi's chakra as a tool, and sasuke using the curse seal as a tool, or shino using his bugs as a tool, or kiba using his dog as a tool, or kakashi using a kunai as a tool? (apart from the fact that kyubi chakra gives naruto poor chakra control)



Quote:
kishimot has been carefull to balance things out. he knows that kyuubi gives naruto a shitload of chakra so he doesn't give naruto brains or jutsu to pwn with it. truth his when naruto uses kyuubi chakra he actullay evens out the playing field to make up for his lack of brains and tactics.
True. Especially with naruto's
Spoiler for spoil:

Last edited by quashoko; 2007-12-19 at 01:03.
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Old 2007-12-19, 01:31   Link #170
Mistacloudstrife
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Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto View Post
-In case you weren't aware parasites in nature are known to be symbiotic. As in they merge with their host over time eventually leading to the death of the host though Naruto's situation is a bit more complex than that. Regardless my opinion stands.
And in case YOU weren't aware, not ALL parasites kill their hosts.

Quote:
-The fact that Naruto will die as a result of the Kyuubi being extracted is proof the 2 are one entity. If the 2 were separate beings in one body then Naruto wouldn't have to die now would he? Did you ever watch the Exorcist? It would have been like that if it was true. The demon would have been removed and Naruto would be fine. But this isn't the case here now is it? Removing the Kyuubi from Naruto is like tearing a sheet of paper in half.
They aren't one entity. It's a fact that Naruto and the Kyuubi could be removed from each other without one or the other dying since it's happened before with Gaara. And this is only one solution out of many potential ways in a world filled with unknown mysteries involving jutsus and such. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do get separated sometime later in the manga seeing as the Kyuubi would make a perfect enemy for Naruto when he actually gets stronger WITHOUT the use of said Kyuubi. But as of now, Naruto is weak and cheap.


Quote:
-Oh then why was Naruto able to control the Kyuubi chakra in him during his fight with Neji? Because he trained his ass off to do it that is why. Power takes many shapes and forms and it isn't bound to a single definition. It is ambiguous in nature and is thus diverse. Characters who have power use it in the ways they are told to use it so what's wrong with Naruto using demonic power he was given and has trained himself to use? It's no different than any samurai training to master the sword that was forged for them or a sniper training to perfect his head shots with a prototype sniper gun.
Control it? He doesn't control it. He let's it pour from his body like a geyser. All he learned to do was call out the Kyuubi chakra. And thus it still remains he's not using his own power, which is my main point. He's using someone else's power(an extremely strong power at that), which is why it's cheap.


Quote:
-But that's the thing, it has always been with him, ever since he was born in fact. Since his birth it has been merging with him, little by little, for the last 15 years of his life. This is because of the way Yondaime's seal works. It was designed to allow small portions of that chakra to slowly leak out and merge with the boy's own. Knowing this explains why he had trouble controlling his own chakra (or still does) and why he's the only person who can do the Kage Bunshin seemingly without limits. Like I mentioned to another poster, Naruto cannot stop molding the Kyuubi's chakra with his own because of the way the seal works. He can't help it. His body has been cnditioned to use that specific chakra. No other human being can handle that specific chakra (Yamato is surprised Naruto is even capable of doing it in the first place). It comes out more frequently when it is most convnient and that generally means life or death situations which makes sense.
And I agree with most of this, but it's still not his own chakra, which is why some of the characters notice the difference in chakra. They can tell when the Kyuubi chakra is used, and even said that it's an evil type of chakra. Two different types of chakra, two different beings stuck in one body.

Quote:
-"More than likely" is not the same as "will win". Naruto hasn't won every fight he was in by activating the Kyuubi chakra instead of his own. He has used it in fights he felt it would be most beneficial (albeit on instinct at first). It is a power he alone posseses. Besides we are talking about life and death situations here. All beings in this world seek to protect their own existance. No one wants to die. Not Naruto, not the Kyuubi and so on. What's wrong with using any means to ensure your survival and the survival of others if it is within your power to do so?
Nothing is wrong with using someone else's power when the time calls for it. I never stated that. I just stated that it was cheap. And that's the main argument I've been going at this entire time. Naruto knows that the Kyuubi's chakra isn't his own and he obviously doesn't believe that the Kyuubi and he are one being. Hell he goes inside of his mind and the Kyuubi is in bars. This is a visual of what is inside his body. Is he the Kyuubi? Obviously not. Naruto is outside looking in at the Kyuubi locked in his body. When he uses the Kyuubi's power parts of the Kyuubi come rushing out from the bars and the power of it rushes through the body they both inhabit.

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What is the difference between naruto using Kyubi's chakra as a tool, and sasuke using the curse seal as a tool, or shino using his bugs as a tool, or kiba using his dog as a tool, or kakashi using a kunai as a tool?
Difference is that it's overly cheap. In the case of Sasuke's Cursed Seal, it uses enormous amoutns of chakra. And in the case of Shino's bugs and Kiba's dog, it's like using a kunai.. they're really just tools for battle; and they had to train the animals for battle. Naruto on the other hand relies on something that doesn't require chakra(it actually gives him chakra), cures his injuries almost instantaneously, increases his physical abilities, and gives him heightened abilities the ability to fight as if he were the Kyuubi.(He gets on all fours and goes crazy and can detect moves that Naruto normally wouldn't even notice)
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Old 2007-12-19, 01:37   Link #171
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Difference is that it's overly cheap. In the case of Sasuke's Cursed Seal, it uses enormous amoutns of chakra. And in the case of Shino's bugs and Kiba's dog, it's like using a kunai.. they're really just tools for battle; and they had to train the animals for battle. Naruto on the other hand relies on something that doesn't require chakra(it actually gives him chakra), cures his injuries almost instantaneously, increases his physical abilities, and gives him heightened abilities the ability to fight as if he were the Kyuubi.(He gets on all fours and goes crazy and can detect moves that Naruto normally wouldn't even notice)
Different tools have different functions.
This tool is also not something naruto can use for long periods of time. This tool also gives naruto extremely bad chakra control ( @ blackshinobi which is why naruto will not be doing resengan with one hand anytime soon)

Just like those other ninja with tools, naruto also had/has to train with his tool to be better with it.
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Old 2007-12-19, 02:03   Link #172
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1)Garaa died when they took shukaku out, he was just lucky the writer conviniently placed the only person that can bring dead from life

Naruto's Kyuubi usage takes more than chakra, it shortens his life span, every time he uses it it hurts his body.

I believe in order for something to be gain somethin else must be lost. you give up

little chakra = basic jutsu (henge, replacement, etc)
medium chakra = intermediate jutsu (fireball jutsu etc
considerable amount of chakra = strong jutus (chidori, resengan etc
a lot of chakra = (super jutsus , hokage lvl

you give up some blood and chakra to do summons, more blood or more chakra equals stronger summons

more important than chakra and blood is life itself. when you give up life(years) you can use even more powerful jutsus

tsunade gave up some years and regenerated
chiyo used her life and brought garraa back to life

likewise, naruto loses his healing ability when he is under the cloak of the kyuubi, and it shortens his life. so it balances out. from the very first time he used the cloak he realized that the cloak was burning his had like an acid. the fact that he gives up these things in return for power, makes it not cheap and fair
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Old 2007-12-19, 02:24   Link #173
Mistacloudstrife
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Different tools have different functions.
This tool is also not something naruto can use for long periods of time. This tool also gives naruto extremely bad chakra control ( @ blackshinobi which is why naruto will not be doing resengan with one hand anytime soon)

Just like those other ninja with tools, naruto also had/has to train with his tool to be better with it.
He uses it all the time. Regeneration of his body after every night is what the Kyuubi does constantly just from being sealed in Naruto. That's how powerful it is. And how cheap it is.

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Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
@Mistacloudstrife
1)Garaa died when they took shukaku out, he was just lucky the writer conviniently placed the only person that can bring dead from life

Naruto's Kyuubi usage takes more than chakra, it shortens his life span, every time he uses it it hurts his body.

I believe in order for something to be gain somethin else must be lost. you give up

little chakra = basic jutsu (henge, replacement, etc)
medium chakra = intermediate jutsu (fireball jutsu etc
considerable amount of chakra = strong jutus (chidori, resengan etc
a lot of chakra = (super jutsus , hokage lvl

you give up some blood and chakra to do summons, more blood or more chakra equals stronger summons

more important than chakra and blood is life itself. when you give up life(years) you can use even more powerful jutsus

tsunade gave up some years and regenerated
chiyo used her life and brought garraa back to life

likewise, naruto loses his healing ability when he is under the cloak of the kyuubi, and it shortens his life. so it balances out. from the very first time he used the cloak he realized that the cloak was burning his had like an acid. the fact that he gives up these things in return for power, makes it not cheap and fair
No. Using the Kyuubi's powers = shortening his lifespan was never confirmed. What WAS confirmed is that if he kept going into 4-tails form his lifespan would decrease and using the rasenshuriken could damage his body. Nothing was said about his lifespan getting shorter if he used the Kyuubi's power(under 4-tails form).

And the fact still remains that there are ways to extract a person from a Jinchuriki. And as I said before, this is a world where unknown jutsus are abundant, so there may very well be others ways to go about taking out the Kyuubi.
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Old 2007-12-19, 02:33   Link #174
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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
No. Using the Kyuubi's powers = shortening his lifespan was never confirmed. What WAS confirmed is that if he kept going into 4-tails form his lifespan would decrease and using the rasenshuriken could damage his body. Nothing was said about his lifespan getting shorter if he used the Kyuubi's power(under 4-tails form).
Perhaps not confirmed, but widely accepted. When Naruto is under the kyuubi cloak, his skin is constantly being destroyed and regenerated, and the more "tailed" he is, the faster this process occurs. Much as Tsunade's regeneration technique works, speeding up or repeating the body's cells' replication process shortens one's lifespan, due to senescence that occurs after many replications. If you don't understand the concept of senescence on the cellular/molecular level, read up on it in the wikipedia article here. But in a nutshell, aging happens because cells break down after multiple replications, which is supposed to take a long time, but in this case it happens at an EXTREMELY accelerated rate. So yes, all evidence points to that it does, in fact, shorten his lifespan when naruto goes kyuubi.
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Old 2007-12-19, 03:26   Link #175
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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
No. Using the Kyuubi's powers = shortening his lifespan was never confirmed. What WAS confirmed is that if he kept going into 4-tails form his lifespan would decrease and using the rasenshuriken could damage his body. Nothing was said about his lifespan getting shorter if he used the Kyuubi's power(under 4-tails form).

And the fact still remains that there are ways to extract a person from a Jinchuriki. And as I said before, this is a world where unknown jutsus are abundant, so there may very well be others ways to go about taking out the Kyuubi.
Spoiler for Manga Spoiler:
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Old 2007-12-19, 07:23   Link #176
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I had already taken everything guys said into consideration. I just assumed he would make a a few hundred clones to distract her while he tries to hit her with the FRS. He does the clone thing in every single battle he engages in so its a pretty safe bet don't you think?


sigh, no love for granny tsunadesama lol.
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Old 2007-12-19, 07:48   Link #177
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They aren't one entity. It's a fact that Naruto and the Kyuubi could be removed from each other without one or the other dying since it's happened before with Gaara. And this is only one solution out of many potential ways in a world filled with unknown mysteries involving jutsus and such. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do get separated sometime later in the manga seeing as the Kyuubi would make a perfect enemy for Naruto when he actually gets stronger WITHOUT the use of said Kyuubi. But as of now, Naruto is weak and cheap.
What have you been reading?
Spoiler for Gaara's fate in Shippuuden:

The fact is that we still don't know what the real effects of extracting the Kyuubi from Naruto will be. He is the first one to have the Kyuubi sealed in him, so who knows?
But if you are saying that he is like Gaara or any other Jinchuuriki, the his situation would be that of a tree, Cut the root and the tree dies, the root might grow a new tree in which Naruto is the tree and Kyuubi the root. Or a lizard, cut his legs and they will grow back while the former leg decaies. in which case Kyuubi is the Lizard with the head and torso and Naruto is its hands and legs.
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Old 2007-12-19, 17:10   Link #178
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Well.. naruto seems to survive on sheer determination
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Old 2007-12-19, 19:42   Link #179
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And in case YOU weren't aware, not ALL parasites kill their hosts.
-Too bad that for the purpose of this argument the Kyuubi belongs to the kind of parasite that DOES kill it's host.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
They aren't one entity. It's a fact that Naruto and the Kyuubi could be removed from each other without one or the other dying since it's happened before with Gaara. And this is only one solution out of many potential ways in a world filled with unknown mysteries involving jutsus and such. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do get separated sometime later in the manga seeing as the Kyuubi would make a perfect enemy for Naruto when he actually gets stronger WITHOUT the use of said Kyuubi. But as of now, Naruto is weak and cheap.
-If you are going to use Gaara's predicament for this then you need to understand that he did in fact die when Shukaku was extracted. Both Sakura and Chiyo (who are well versed in human anatomy) confirmed this. If I had to compare this extraction to a real-life situation I would say that it is similar to getting your heart ripped out by forceful entry of your enemies' hand. For the record, the only reason Gaara lived was because Chiyo gave him her own life. This also explains why:
Spoiler for manga:
Take this information as you like but the evidence points that for a jinchuuriki, be they Naruto or Gaara, it is imperative that they remain one with them. Otherwise they die.

-One more thing: refrain from bringing in a Kyuubi-less Naruto into this. Like it or not such a being does not exist in the manga and will most likely never see the light of day. Stick to what has happened up to this point.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
Control it? He doesn't control it. He let's it pour from his body like a geyser. All he learned to do was call out the Kyuubi chakra. And thus it still remains he's not using his own power, which is my main point. He's using someone else's power(an extremely strong power at that), which is why it's cheap.
-As long as he is not using the 4th tail he is in control of himself, his power, and his actions (though he loses more control the more power he uses). And besides all ninja have to learn to call out chakra for their jutsu. Naruto just happens to have 2 types that exist within him as one. Since he was not aware of the other inner power that he has he had to learn to call it out and therefore control it. It's similar to you drinking mass litres of juice, turning it to urine then firing it from your pecker at a high enough speed to pierce armour (feel free to laugh at this ). As long as it reamins within him it is his to do with as he pleases. If that power existed outside of his body (as in anywhere but there) then I would agree with you. But the fact remains that the Kyuubi exists within Naruto so therefore I cannot.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
And I agree with most of this, but it's still not his own chakra, which is why some of the characters notice the difference in chakra. They can tell when the Kyuubi chakra is used, and even said that it's an evil type of chakra. Two different types of chakra, two different beings stuck in one body.
-For the record Sasuke's chakra also changed when the Cursed Seal activated. Since the change is similar to these characters it is likely that the only reason this comment applies is because Naruto's chakra reserves suddenly go from blue to red. All it does is switch properties that's it. Therefore the 2 are one entity since I told you that a Kyuubi-less Naruto does not exist in Kishimoto's story.

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Originally Posted by Mistacloudstrife View Post
Nothing is wrong with using someone else's power when the time calls for it. I never stated that. I just stated that it was cheap. And that's the main argument I've been going at this entire time. Naruto knows that the Kyuubi's chakra isn't his own and he obviously doesn't believe that the Kyuubi and he are one being. Hell he goes inside of his mind and the Kyuubi is in bars. This is a visual of what is inside his body. Is he the Kyuubi? Obviously not. Naruto is outside looking in at the Kyuubi locked in his body. When he uses the Kyuubi's power parts of the Kyuubi come rushing out from the bars and the power of it rushes through the body they both inhabit.
-Even if the 2 minds are separate they still share one body and therefore share the same existance. This is not like in Bleach where Ichigo can remove his soul and then place Kon in for it to take over. Naruto and the Kyuubi share the same body and life. The body's death would spell the end for both of them. Case in point: 2 minds, but one single existance. Wheter it is cheap or not is dependant on the reader and the author.
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Old 2007-12-21, 06:05   Link #180
minato uzumaki
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i think the only damage that can the kyuubi heal are only physical damage but not internal damage the only damage that the kyuubi cant heal are sever damage like head cut or arm cut feet cut heheheh
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