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Old 2004-09-17, 20:33   Link #61
realdeal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

Yes he did, as Oro was crushing the 3rd easily and without sweating with his two undead summons before Sandaime summon a God of Death, the level of the Edo Tensei among Oro's jutsu doesn't matter it simply wasn't a difficult fight for him at this point of the combat.

The fact is that Itachi wasn't in trouble even once during this fight which barely lasted one minute, that actually Kakashi didn't even find a moment to attack him.
And messed up? Don't exagerate, the effort to use the Tsukiyomi make him sweat a little and breath a little more heavily during a few second, nothing else.
Depends on your definition of easy. To me if naruto had to summon Gamabunta to fight a character, Naruto may just be able to sit back and have popcorn but I wont call that easy. The fact that he has to resort to such a move proves its not easy. An example of this is ssj lvl in DB. If goku was to beat someone in normal form, yea thats easy, however if he had to resort to ssj4 to trash the guy then no it wasnt. BTW I think Itachi had to "resort" because regardles of what he said, he couldnt touch kakashi without using that move. The exploding kage bunshin was kureneis fault..
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Old 2004-09-17, 20:52   Link #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
I doubt a hit from Tsunade will kill him too... you overestimate Tsunade and underestimate Gai. You seem to think Gai's strength is so incredibly weak compared to Tsunade's. And My point is that you don't know how much weaker Gai's strength is so you can't go off assuming it.
I'm not, the fact that even one blow of Tsunade can kill you is stated in the manga by both Orochimaru and Kabuto.
And she did crush Orochimaru in one blow, without speaking of using a sword of the size of a building weighing probably some dozens of tons to end a Godzilla-class Summon.
We have an example of Gai's strength and we have examples of Tsunade's strength.

The examples of Tsunade are simply vastly crazier than Gai's, period.
You're the one who can't stop assuming because you don't like what the manga showed or rather because it doesn't go with the point you're trying to defend right now.

Quote:
Who knows but that is beside the point. Itachi was affected by the use of the Tsukiyomi so therefore the fight wasn't a completely breeze for him.
That's certainely not beside the point, you said that the fight wasn't easy because Itachi used a very strong jutsu, that's just plainly wrong.
lol if Konohamaru runs into Itachi and bites his leg and that because he's a twisted bastard he uses Tsukiyomi to destroy the mind of the little brat it will not suddenly become a difficult battle.

Quote:
And?
And?
None of the jounins were able to land a single finger on Itachi, not a single of them was able to do something at least a little dangerous for him and they were already pushed at a complete disadvantage in no time before Itachi decided alone and not even in response of one of their attack to use the Tsukiyomi and you ask and?

Neither Asuma, nor Kurenai nor Kakashi showed a single thing which could worry Itachi, actually Kakashi was praised to be able to do nothing but defend himself during barely 30s and you would call that a difficult fight?

It was simply easy, as much as you would like to twist that, the battle was completely one sided.

Quote:
Even though this is besides the point, Itachi didn't breeze through the fight once again. He used that jutsu. It doesn't matter if it was for or not, it's the fact that he was obviously tired or something like that after using it therefore the match wasn'ta breeze for him.
This is all the point, Itachi wasn't put in difficulty by his opponents, not even once. And he beat them very quickly.
That's nothing but an easy fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmedaus
Spoiler:
I'm not sure if the sharingan can catch which way the blow would come. Sharingan does not see the future, I think it predicts movements based on previous "stored" data, like a really good computer. Yet, with a fightning style that changes on demand, I'm not sure if Itachi could predict it, but that's neither here nor there.
Spoiler:


But anyways it's a Taijutsu and there is no reason that the Sharingan couldn't see through it and predicts its movement as well.
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Old 2004-09-17, 21:47   Link #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I'm not, the fact that even one blow of Tsunade can kill you is stated in the manga by both Orochimaru and Kabuto.
And she did crush Orochimaru in one blow, without speaking of using a sword of the size of a building weighing probably some dozens of tons to end a Godzilla-class Summon.
That 1 blow didn't kill Oro... and Kisame seems to be very strong(who knows how damaging a hit from him will be).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
We have an example of Gai's strength and we have examples of Tsunade's strength.
We've seen Lee do more damaging stuff than Gai... So unless Gai is weaker than Lee then we haven't seen enough of Gai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

The examples of Tsunade are simply vastly crazier than Gai's, period.
You're the one who can't stop assuming because you don't like what the manga showed or rather because it doesn't go with the point you're trying to defend right now.
No. It's because I'm telling you not to assume things.(I am not saying he's as strong as her or even nearly as strong, but i am also not saying that he's like a bug compared to her). All I'm saying is don't assume we've seen his true power which you seem to think we have so you can't assume he's a bug compard to Tsunade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

That's certainely not beside the point, you said that the fight wasn't easy because Itachi used a very strong jutsu, that's just plainly wrong.
lol if Konohamaru runs into Itachi and bites his leg and that because he's a twisted bastard he uses Tsukiyomi to destroy the mind of the little brat it will not suddenly become a difficult battle.
It would if he became tired from the jutsu. But If he did do that he is quite the stupid ninja so he would've thought the only way to beat him is to use his strongest jutsu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter


It was simply easy, as much as you would like to twist that, the battle was completely one sided.
I'm getting tired of this... besides it has nothing to do with the topic. Itachi was tired for a tiny bit. That's enough to say it wasn't an easy battle. My defintion of easy differs from yorus apperantly. If he was forced to use that jutsu or even if he wasn't 'forced' I wont' call it easy. That's all I'm going to say about this.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

Spoiler:


But anyways it's a Taijutsu and there is no reason that the Sharingan couldn't see through it and predicts its movement as well.
But we don't know how fast Gai is. As shown regardless of how advanced it is, if the opponent is fast enough it doesn't matter,
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Old 2004-09-17, 23:53   Link #64
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I agree with Hunter that Itachi had a relatively easy fight against the jounins. It doesn't matter if one of his top jutsus tired him. He used that to drive a point home with Kakashi about who is the true master of the sharingan. If a rabbit blasts as fast as it can to the finish line, and is breathing hard at the end, that doesn't mean it had a hard match against a turtle--it just means the rabbit is arrogant as hell and wanted to drive the turtle's self-esteem into the ground.

Hmm, as to the comparison of strength between Gai and Tsunade, I think it's obvious that Tsunade is significantly stronger, probably on a magnitude of at least ten (of course that's a little bit manufactured.) As to whether Gai is a bug compared to Tsunade, that's just a matter of opinion. Surely she's not millions of times stronger, but she's certainly quite a bit stronger, and could wipe the floor with him with just one hit.
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Old 2004-09-18, 00:08   Link #65
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I also think Tsunade is Stronger there are several things i believe are so.

Spoiler:


second of all Tsunade can break the ground with her finger. Gai is strong but not as strong as Tsunade. I dont see the point in comparing them either.
Spoiler:
so Gai to Tsunade is no comparison thing
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Old 2004-09-18, 04:55   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
That 1 blow didn't kill Oro... and Kisame seems to be very strong(who knows how damaging a hit from him will be).
Just to be nitpicky, Orochimaru stated in the manga: "even one hit can end your life" it can end your life, but it's not certain it will kill you.
(i'll stick to the manga here because the anime made big mistake with Tsunade's strength, has been discussed before so let's not start that again)

Kisame? how did he get in this discussion? I might be missing something but explain to me what prove we have of Kisame's physical strength (any twat can hold a big sword so I doubt you mean that)

Quote:
We've seen Lee do more damaging stuff than Gai... So unless Gai is weaker than Lee then we haven't seen enough of Gai.
Well...during the Hokage battle, Gai and Kakashi were fighting the sand/sound jounins, They commented on the number as if to imply that it wasn't that easy after all. Also they were somewhat wounded both. Now...there is not a doubt in my mind that Tsunade would have something close to a hard time with these jounins. Gai was putting his best effort in this fight and even though they won fairly easy, it wasn't a complete breeze for our taijutsu specialist. Hence there is something to say about his strength if he could't even handle the smallfry without getting a scratch on him.

Quote:
...
Quote:
I'm getting tired of this... besides it has nothing to do with the topic. Itachi was tired for a tiny bit. That's enough to say it wasn't an easy battle. My defintion of easy differs from yorus apperantly. If he was forced to use that jutsu or even if he wasn't 'forced' I wont' call it easy. That's all I'm going to say about this.
If you beat the the world-record 100 meter sprint using only a part of your potential and let out a sigh or two afterwards you would call that "not an easy match"?

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Old 2004-09-18, 09:13   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
That 1 blow didn't kill Oro... and Kisame seems to be very strong(who knows how damaging a hit from him will be).
lol seriously that becomes ridiculous, especially from a guy who's only able to say don't assume thing as argument.
Yeah Gai is around the same strength of Tsunade and Kisame wasn't phased by his kick because he's an invincible monster.
Right.

You just prove again and again at each of your post that you have no point, you refuse to admit that Tsunade showed a vastly stronger strength level than Gai : to hide that you just can't say the opposite you invent stupid comparison like 'and ant to the Hulk' as if I made a comparison like that.
Gai isn't an ant but he's not as strong as Tsunade and to keep stating the obvious start to be tiring.

Lee doing more damage than Gai? Barely and he has opened the 5 Gates, and I also wonder how Gai dispersed like it was nothing the Sand attack of Gaara against which Lee was hopeless whereas Lee is supposed to have showed more strength

Quote:
No. It's because I'm telling you not to assume things.(I am not saying he's as strong as her or even nearly as strong, but i am also not saying that he's like a bug compared to her). All I'm saying is don't assume we've seen his true power which you seem to think we have so you can't assume he's a bug compard to Tsunade.
I already tell you that, stop to invent your own comparison and to put them in my mouth.
At least you admit that Gai isn't even nearly as strong as Tsunade so now why did you feel the need to discuss that since it's my point from the beginning?

Quote:
It would if he became tired from the jutsu. But If he did do that he is quite the stupid ninja so he would've thought the only way to beat him is to use his strongest jutsu.
lol yeah okey and the fight Itachi vs. Sasuke was a difficult fight because he finished him with the Tsukiyomi.
Oh and Lee has a hard time against Sasuke because he was going to use the Lotus which is very tiring for his body.
And the fact that Sasuke could do nothing at all against Lee doesn't matter

Quote:
I'm getting tired of this... besides it has nothing to do with the topic. Itachi was tired for a tiny bit. That's enough to say it wasn't an easy battle. My defintion of easy differs from yorus apperantly. If he was forced to use that jutsu or even if he wasn't 'forced' I wont' call it easy. That's all I'm going to say about this.
Yeah and the last time I did a 100m race with my nephew I win but I was tired a tiny bit to have running.
Oh he was 50m behind at least but it wasn't an easy victory because I was tired a tiny bit!
Your definition differs from what this word means.

Quote:
But we don't know how fast Gai is. As shown regardless of how advanced it is, if the opponent is fast enough it doesn't matter,
Except that Gai should be incredibly faster than Itachi to overwhelm completely the prediction ability of the Sharingan and that Kakashi is already fast enough to be able to be a match for Gai.
Btw and for the second time how Gai can fight against an explosive Kage Bunshin with Taijutsu?



Animizzle there is somewhat an example of Kisame's strength, when Asuma said that he could easily pressure him with the top of his sword
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Old 2004-09-18, 09:31   Link #68
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Animizzle there is somewhat an example of Kisame's strength, when Asuma said that he could easily pressure him with the top of his sword
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Old 2004-09-18, 12:04   Link #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Animizzle there is somewhat an example of Kisame's strength, when Asuma said that he could easily pressure him with the top of his sword
I always took that as the doing of Kisame's sword, which seemed to have its own mind and power in some ways.
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Old 2004-09-18, 12:10   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Hunter
lol seriously that becomes ridiculous, especially from a guy who's only able to say don't assume thing as argument.
Huh? Can you read? So I assumed something where I said 'probably' and 'who knows'? And even though it has some facts to back it up. I guess I overestimated yoru intelligence...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Yeah Gai is around the same strength of Tsunade and Kisame wasn't phased by his kick because he's an invincible monster.
Right.
At this point. You're an idiot. Since when did I say Gai is anywhere near the strength of Tsunade? And when did I say anything about Kisame aside from that he might be really strong seeing as how he comleteply overpowerd Asuma who is the 2nd strongest jounin in terms of strength in Konoha. You seem to be seeing things. My whole poitn is that we don't know hwo strong Gai is, or Kisame for that matter. While you assume that Gai went all out showing all his stuff already, if he did then gai is considerably weak than Lee. But you might think that laso.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter


You just prove again and again at each of your post that you have no point, you refuse to admit that Tsunade showed a vastly stronger strength level than Gai : to hide that you just can't say the opposite you invent stupid comparison like 'and ant to the Hulk' as if I made a comparison like that.
Gai isn't an ant but he's not as strong as Tsunade and to keep stating the obvious start to be tiring.
You have no point. You go off rambling about other stuff then go debating about stuff that doesn't matter. you seem to be imaging that i said somethings and such. Where did I ever say he is as strong as Tsunade? Where? I am saying we haven't seeing Gai's full strenght.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Lee doing more damage than Gai? Barely and he has opened the 5 Gates, and I also wonder how Gai dispersed like it was nothing the Sand attack of Gaara against which Lee was hopeless whereas Lee is supposed to have showed more strength
Say building damage, we have seen Gai knock a guy through a wall that's about it. While we've seen Lee run and tear up the ground at the same time and bounceall over the place smashing things and also take down a resturaunt. Unless Gai is weaker than Lee, we haven't seen Gai's full strength which not even once I said it would be as strong as TSunade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

I already tell you that, stop to invent your own comparison and to put them in my mouth.
At least you admit that Gai isn't even nearly as strong as Tsunade so now why did you feel the need to discuss that since it's my point from the beginning?
your point is that Gai is vastly weaker than Tsunade. My point is that you don't know that, you're talking shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
lol yeah okey and the fight Itachi vs. Sasuke was a difficult fight because he finished him with the Tsukiyomi.
Oh and Lee has a hard time against Sasuke because he was going to use the Lotus which is very tiring for his body.
And the fact that Sasuke could do nothing at all against Lee doesn't matter
If Itachi was drained after using it against Sasuke then the fight wasn't totally easy but the Itachi fight agaisnt Kakashi, Kakashi was able to counter a few of his moves. Itachi only landed that one move that was very tiring to him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah and the last time I did a 100m race with my nephew I win but I was tired a tiny bit to have running.
Oh he was 50m behind at least but it wasn't an easy victory because I was tired a tiny bit!
Your definition differs from what this word means.
Oh so whatever you say is a defnition? A word can only have 1 definition and that's what you think it is?

'Requiring or exhibiting little effort or endeavor; undemanding'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Except that Gai should be incredibly faster than Itachi to overwhelm completely the prediction ability of the Sharingan and that Kakashi is already fast enough to be able to be a match for Gai.
Btw and for the second time how Gai can fight against an explosive Kage Bunshin with Taijutsu?
By the way, we don't know how strong Gai is and not once did I say he can beat Itachi. I seriously doubt that, but it would certainly be more of a match with Gai than agaisnt Kakashi.

About Kisame's strenght. Well he used the tip of his sword and only 1 hand(really really at a disadvantage) and overpowerd Asuma who has probably #2 stats in strength of the jounins. SO I guess it's enough to assume that he has incredble strength, we don't know much else about him for Itachi told him not to use any of his flashy jutsus for they would draw attention.
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Old 2004-09-18, 12:28   Link #71
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I don't think Gai would stand more of a chance against Itachi.
Spoiler:


Gai also just doesn't have the eyes for it. Kakashi's eyes helped him out against Itachi, but Gai doesn't have this advantage. I'm not saying we know Gai would be crappier than Kakashi against Itachi, it's just that it's not likely he'd be any better, with the current data we have.

Oh, and UserName, it seems that for you to define 'easy' as 'exhibiting little effort' is at odds with how you originally used the word 'easy' to drive home a point. The point is that it didn't require any effort on Itachi's part, not that he exhibiited it.
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Old 2004-09-18, 13:04   Link #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genei Killua
I don't think Gai would stand more of a chance against Itachi.
Spoiler:



Gai also just doesn't have the eyes for it. Kakashi's eyes helped him out against Itachi, but Gai doesn't have this advantage. I'm not saying we know Gai would be crappier than Kakashi against Itachi, it's just that it's not likely he'd be any better, with the current data we have.

Oh, and UserName, it seems that for you to define 'easy' as 'exhibiting little effort' is at odds with how you originally used the word 'easy' to drive home a point. The point is that it didn't require any effort on Itachi's part, not that he exhibiited it.
Gai knows how to fight agaisnt a Sharingan user. I'm sure Kakashi does too. But Speed is also very important when fighitng one, and even Sasuke without the sharingan can notice the speed difference between Gai and Kakashi. Gai's fighitng style is a lot more suited than Kakashi's who is more of a jutsu guy. That's a major reason why Oro can't beat Itachi.

The Tsukiyomi requires effort and that's the only one that hit Kakashi. It was an easy fight but no walk in the park.
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Old 2004-09-18, 14:33   Link #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Gai knows how to fight agaisnt a Sharingan user. I'm sure Kakashi does too. But Speed is also very important when fighitng one, and even Sasuke without the sharingan can notice the speed difference between Gai and Kakashi. Gai's fighitng style is a lot more suited than Kakashi's who is more of a jutsu guy. That's a major reason why Oro can't beat Itachi.
Correction: Gai knows how to fight against Kakashi. Kakashi is a half-sharingan user, and has never shown in any fight the degree of prediction
Spoiler:


Taijutsu was affective against a sharingan user like Sasuke in the Lee fight, but
Spoiler:


Again, my point still stands:
Spoiler:


Quote:
It was an easy fight but no walk in the park.
That's priceless.
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Old 2004-09-18, 14:45   Link #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserName
Gai knows how to fight agaisnt a Sharingan user. I'm sure Kakashi does too. But Speed is also very important when fighitng one, and even Sasuke without the sharingan can notice the speed difference between Gai and Kakashi. Gai's fighitng style is a lot more suited than Kakashi's who is more of a jutsu guy. That's a major reason why Oro can't beat Itachi.

The Tsukiyomi requires effort and that's the only one that hit Kakashi. It was an easy fight but no walk in the park.
Well, we can only assume that the only Sharingan user Gai has actually battled is Kakashi. And, as it has been stated by Kakashi himself, he can't use the Sharingan perfectly. Although Kakashi can effectively use the Sharingan despite his non-Uchiha body/bloodline, it would be safe to assume that the effectiveness of his "eye" is below that of a true Sharingan inheritor such as Itachi.

Even though it is never stated or really shown who is the faster of the two (Gai or Itachi)...

Spoiler:
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Old 2004-09-18, 14:54   Link #75
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as far as i remember, we never see Gai using nin/genjutsus, it's much more difficult to measure his strenght...
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Old 2004-09-18, 15:06   Link #76
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So all of you are basically saying Sasuke's sharingan is better than kakashi's?
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Old 2004-09-18, 15:11   Link #77
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Originally Posted by UserName
So all of you are basically saying Sasuke's sharingan is better than kakashi's?
Well, at this point,
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-09-18, 15:19   Link #78
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Originally Posted by Genei Killua
Well, at this point,
Spoiler:
We have yet to see Sasuke do some things Kakashi did like he did agaisnt Zabuza. So meh. Besides he barely got it while Kakashi had had lots and lots of expereicne with it, Itachi was even surprised by his use of it for a non-uchiha.
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Old 2004-09-18, 15:22   Link #79
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Originally Posted by UserName
So all of you are basically saying Sasuke's sharingan is better than kakashi's?
Well, although it is not specifically stated, Sasuke's current Sharingan (in the manga) may very well be "better" than Kakashi's. We must consider the following facts:

1. Like Itachi, Sasuke is a "true" Sharingan inheritor, who possesses a body that is suited for the Sharingan. Kakashi on the other hand can't use the Sharingan to its maximum potential due to the fact that he is not of the Uchiha Clan and also, the Sharingan puts tremendous strain on his body.

2. Sasuke has the Sharingan in both eyes as opposed to Kakashi's one.

But, Kakashi definitely has more experience with the Sharingan, which is why Jiraiya advises him to continue Sasuke's training. Sasuke may have "better" eyes, but it would be reasonable to believe that he does need more training using them.
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Old 2004-09-18, 15:27   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Genei Killua
Well, at this point,
Spoiler:
Actually, its likely he got it from Obito, if that is the case it must be a pretty special Sharingan as Obito is supposudley one of the 4th students too. We all know the hokages students are always pretty special. Also Kakashi has had years more with it.
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