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Old 2003-12-08, 02:06   Link #41
complich8
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vmware has a free 30 day evaluation period .... but then you gotta pay. It's pretty pricey too, I've paid less for fully functional computers than the cost of vmware. Check out www.vmware.com for more info on that.

I also recommend the knoppix approach to trying linux. Knoppix is the BEST linux I've seen for ease of use. You can specify what you want to get dumped into with a command line option, you can run all the normal kde apps and see how kde is to live in, you can mount ntfs and fat32 filesystems and read from them (ntfs write isn't fully supported, so don't do that -- maybe a later version will support it though). It's a great way to get your feet wet, without diving in head first.

As far as distros go, I think most desktop users should probably stick with windows. I'm a multiplatform type of guy: I run a windows desktop (2k, I've run xp but dislike some of its behaviors a bit too much to keep it), a linux server (and x remote desktop machine, but not local desktop), an iBook running mac os 10.3 ... I think the most impressive UI of all of them is the mac 10.3 desktop, as far as power use goes. But most people aren't power users. Most people won't be jumping back and forth between terminal windows and open pdf docs, or between photoshop and office all day, they'll be running a webbrowser, a mail client, and either winamp or windows media player. That scope doesn't require what Mac OS brings to the table (though its certainly easy to do in the Mac offerings).

I tend to steer people away from linux as a desktop because of the huge raging pain in the ass it is to install X. Redhat gets itself up and running easily, but I don't like the way they tie the update system to a subscription service, and without using that most newbies would be trapped in rpm-hell for a VERY long time. Mandrake has this certain stigma to it in the linux community for not being l33t enough or something, but is probably worth a try if you must play with linux. Slack is not for newbies, debian is not really all that desktop-oriented (of all the people I know who run debian, I can think of nobody that has X running on it). SuSE is probably great, if you're willing to buy the cds. Lots of options, but .... a lot of people with prebuilt windows systems have hardware that won't work or don't work well with linux (ie: winmodems, cheap or odd network cards, oddly branded sound cards, miscellaneous video cards, especially video out and video capture functions). Nobody wants to wipe out their OS only to discover that their new one is going to hang during the install, or not work with their modem, or anything like that.

When installing linux is as easy as knoppix makes it to run a desktop linux system, that's the day I'd recommend linux on the desktop to everyday users. But if you're a developer, or a massively multitasking power user, linux or OS-X might be right for you!

That's just my crappy cynical opinion though.
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Old 2003-12-08, 05:36   Link #42
ato
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I have a somewhat more positive picture of running Linux as a desktop OS than complich8. After all, I run it that every day on my home computer (and I actually run a Debian installation with X on one of my other machines).

Personally, I'd recommend against running VMware. It might be essential if you are mandated by your employer to run certain applications, but in virtually every case there is an equivalent piece of free (as in speech and as in beer) software you could use instead. It's better to hop into the cold pool at the deep end from the beginning

As has been pointed out, exotic hardware can cause problems since some manufacturers can't be bothered with publicising the specs on their stuff. However, popular cards and peripherals there are practically always supported, so unless you have gone no-name on you poor computer don't be daunted by this.

Remember, kids, there is no such thing as a too powerful system! Seriously though, even if you don't define yourself as a "power user" (what is that really?) installing Linux and learning how to use it will open your eyes on the fact that Windows is not The OS or The Computer. You will learn that there is actually little reason to ever pirate any software; it's already there for you to use legally, provided you choose the free alternatives. Not to mention that you can amaze and stun your friends and family with all your 'leet knowledge and your fantastic looking desktop...

So, if you feel that you have the time to try it out, I say do it! Provided you have decent backups (you do, right?), the worst thing that could happen is that you don't like it
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Old 2003-12-08, 09:28   Link #43
Megane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamza
I have installed Linux Redhat v.8 on my pc, but I can't seem to find a way to install bittorrent on it. Anyone here have any idea where i can find bittorrent installation files for linux?
*flexes fingers* (sorry, but this won't help you Hamza)

Code:
dave@balthazar:~$ sudo apt-get install bittorrent
Yeah, I'm a Debian man, as Forse will tell you. We are currently having a nice conversation over the virtues of Debian and Gentoo, as both are powerful Linux distros with sizeable followings. It is nice to talk about these things sensibly. I'm currently wrestling with my ancient Laptop, a model for which there exists no documentation on this Earth, trying to get the sound support I need to watch anime on it. But in the meantime it makes for a pleasant working environment which I can drag to and from campus.

If all you use your computer for is browsing the web, listening to music and writing the odd document or two, then I would also say that you don't have much to lose by booting a live CD version of Linux (This is where I suggest Gnoppix over Knoppix, as I'm a Gnome guy). It's a pretty painless way to see if Linux is for you.
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Old 2003-12-08, 09:35   Link #44
Shii
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Megane, have you tried ALSA? It's a bonkler to set up, but it supports more soundcards than OSS.
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Old 2003-12-08, 10:25   Link #45
Forse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Megane
*flexes fingers* (sorry, but this won't help you Hamza)

Code:
dave@balthazar:~$ sudo apt-get install bittorrent
Actually you can get apt-get for RH too from here and use it the same way as debian does
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Old 2003-12-08, 11:26   Link #46
jamuraa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arzme
One question: Why is linux user not prone to virus attack or hack? Since it is a open source, the hacker or 'virus breeder' can just check for any loop hole tht can be tken advantage off.
This question has been answered already, but I think I'll take a stab at it because, well, I'm a linux guy.

Linux is NOT immune to virus attacks. There have been viruses for linux. They do not spread on linux because of (1) smart people and (2) the way linux is setup. Linux has a system where you as a user of the system can't mess with the full system usually. This means that there is much less damage you can do to a computer. Viruses on linux generally have to exploit a kernel weakness in order to gain full control of the computer, which is different for many computers out there. Also more computers are employing methods to make this even harder.

The hacker or 'virus breeder' can check for a loophole in the open source, this is true. The other side of this coin though, is that thousands of coders can also check for loopholes in the source, and they're on the side that is closing the loopholes. Eventually most of the loopholes are closed, and if the thousands of coders' eyes who have worked with the code can't find the loopholes, it's not likely that people with malicious intent can.

You're really asking two different questions here, and I tried to answer both of them.
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Old 2003-12-10, 01:03   Link #47
arzme
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I started reading Forse recommended note, "Introduction to Linux - A Hands On Note".

And I been using/practicing using Knoppix ver. 3.3. The notes mention about login and password... how I do that in knoppix as once boot up, it straight away go to graphic mode? How to logout without halting the system?

Yup, i should go to knoppix.net forum to ask... well... just want to make this topic freshen... he he he
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Old 2003-12-10, 01:41   Link #48
Forse
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Knoppix uses Auto-Login feature since it's liveCD. Normal linux distro uses login feature (but u can also make it to auto login).
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Old 2003-12-10, 13:35   Link #49
Forse
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Here is another reason why to use Linux: Great mascot
http://www.tuxx.net/weblog/hardcore.pinguin.wmv
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Old 2003-12-10, 14:18   Link #50
Shii
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A Linux WMV... that's got to be irony, or something.
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Old 2003-12-10, 14:37   Link #51
Forse
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well that video shows some pinguin dancing to hardcore...and makes me think of linux...I didn't encode it...so no complaints to me please (Author of video doesn't even know what linux is)
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Old 2003-12-10, 17:34   Link #52
Wucherkater
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lol this video is funny ^^
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Old 2003-12-30, 21:31   Link #53
Lostowl
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For my two cents, I think Suse 9.0 is the easies linux for the desktop I have ever seen...

Suse
OpenOffice
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BT for Linux
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no more microsoft
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Old 2003-12-31, 00:57   Link #54
Galaxy
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Suse 9.0....*looks at the site* oh seems like you need to pay for it....Lostowl, most of those programs can be downloaded and installed in any linux distro....What "Desktop" are you using? Gnome? KDE?
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Old 2003-12-31, 03:50   Link #55
hhaamu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxy
Suse 9.0....*looks at the site* oh seems like you need to pay for it....
Not exactly. SuSE is a bit different from other linux distroes when it comes to terms of free downloading. They don't let you download the .iso's off the site. You can do an ftp install, though.

Basically, your choices are:
a) do an ftp install of the distro
b) buy the cd's (and the dvd)
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Old 2004-01-13, 01:04   Link #56
Nevion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitarou20
Did I mention yet that its kind of a hassale to install some apps and programs for Linux. I 'll take Windows over Linux any day, until Linux gets their act together to make it easier for ppl to actually use it, otherwise the Linux OS will never be as favorable as MAC OS & Windows.
<rant>
wow, apt-get install||pkginstall||rpm -i||emerge <pkgname> was just so hard to do.. I think I figured out how to do it 20 minutes after I installed mandrake 9.0 with only a little over a year of windows experience before that

or from source a day later (I admit, I didn't know what these really meant nor what source was at that point, remember I barely had windows under my belt)
./configure && make && make install

is it really that hard?

linux doesn't really have a problem, only people who don't use it or just stared at it think it has a problem (thats why nobody gives a damn whenever some hotshot goes "linux is stupid"|"linux has problems and needs to be more user friendly" :P) and theres something in it for everyone, you just have to be willing to remember its not windows, and mayhaps try (you know, like you did when you first got photoshop?).
Everything is configurable and its config is in a simple, well commented text file named approatly and everything is documented well enough so you can have success with what your trying to do with a minimal amount of time eg within your first 5 tries or less usually.
Besides, I think macos is getting pretty damn close to *nix in some ways, don't you?
</rant>
I'm bored and procratinating

Last edited by Nevion; 2004-01-13 at 01:24.
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Old 2004-01-13, 03:16   Link #57
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevion
<rant>
wow, apt-get install||pkginstall||rpm -i||emerge <pkgname> was just so hard to do.. I think I figured out how to do it 20 minutes after I installed mandrake 9.0 with only a little over a year of windows experience before that

or from source a day later (I admit, I didn't know what these really meant nor what source was at that point, remember I barely had windows under my belt)
./configure && make && make install

is it really that hard?

linux doesn't really have a problem, only people who don't use it or just stared at it think it has a problem (thats why nobody gives a damn whenever some hotshot goes "linux is stupid"|"linux has problems and needs to be more user friendly" :P) and theres something in it for everyone, you just have to be willing to remember its not windows, and mayhaps try (you know, like you did when you first got photoshop?).
Everything is configurable and its config is in a simple, well commented text file named approatly and everything is documented well enough so you can have success with what your trying to do with a minimal amount of time eg within your first 5 tries or less usually.
Besides, I think macos is getting pretty damn close to *nix in some ways, don't you?
</rant>
I'm bored and procratinating
lol.. I wonder why Windows and MAC OS are so popular to the consumer market eh....you linux fanboys make me <laugh>. Keep in mind not all computer users are tech savy enough to run a distro of Linux. The simplier the OS the better. You gotta love Windows wizard installer.

I was just ranting in my earlier posts about Linux's faults and comparing it with other OS's. Don't get me wrong I dont hate Linux I just think it still has a long way before I can choose it as my main OS of choice. I dont mean to discourage anyone from not trying it out for themselves.
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Old 2004-01-13, 10:44   Link #58
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitarou20
lol.. I wonder why Windows and MAC OS are so popular to the consumer market eh....you linux fanboys make me <laugh>.
Mac OS is popular in the consumer market? News to me.

Maybe you should put a little time into learning the history of the personal computer business, and then you will figure out why Windows is the most popular system by far.

What? You don't want to because you're too busy insulting people? I will summarize, in my own words:

- IBM develops a new brand of personal computer and forgets to patent it. They arrange a deal with a small software company called Microsoft for an operating system. Microsoft finds some guy that had plagarized CP/M and modified it slightly, calling it QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System). They buy the ripoff from him cheap, rename it PC-DOS and sell it to IBM for an enormous amount of money.
- Lots of people make IBM clones ("compatibles") that can run all the great IBM PC software, making the IBM PC, and with it MS-DOS, the most important architecture. The software pioneer Lotus introduces their highly popular spreadsheet, 1-2-3, for MS-DOS. Following this, everyone develops for it.
- Microsoft and IBM introduce OS/2, similar to UNIX's X11 system. It gives the IBM PC a user interface, but it is not widely used for lack of software and good functionality.
- Microsoft introduces Windows and pulls the carpet out from under OS/2 (IBM loses a lot of money). Microsoft makes a new version of Word, its somewhat popular word processor, for Windows and invites other software companies to develop for Windows.
- Microsoft invites companies developing business software to implement its new technology called OLE, which will be introduced in the next Windows. When they release the next Windows, they modify OLE so that it crashes all its competitors' software.
- Microsoft introduces Office, which is Word bundled with a bunch of ripoffs of its competitors' software, such as Excel, which is a bad clone of Lotus' 1-2-3 (remember it?). Office has immediate support for the new Windows; the competitors are still crashing.
- While its competitors in the business market go under due to OLE and bundling, Microsoft introduces Windows 95, which automatically uninstalls OS/2 for you when you put the disc in.
- Microsoft finally wakes up to the Internet. A start-up called Netscape is selling their web browser for $30. Starting with the second version of Windows 95, Microsoft bundles the operating system with Internet Explorer, which is a horrible clone of Mosaic.
- Microsoft hacks Internet Explorer into Windows 98 so that it is used as the file manager. For some reason, this argument convinces the U.S. courts that IE is a necessary part of Windows.
- Microsoft introduces a media player and a proprietary compression format (WMA) and bundles it with Windows, and for some reason, the easily duped populace starts to use it...

And so, it is 2004. Microsoft is now the proud leader in operating systems, office suites, and web browsers, and is gaining in media, thanks to the tactics I have described above. That, kind sir, is why Windows is so popular in the consumer market.
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Last edited by Shii; 2004-01-13 at 10:56.
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Old 2004-01-13, 11:01   Link #59
Forse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keitarou20
lol.. I wonder why Windows and MAC OS are so popular to the consumer market eh....you linux fanboys make me <laugh>. Keep in mind not all computer users are tech savy enough to run a distro of Linux. The simplier the OS the better. You gotta love Windows wizard installer.
I guess you never tried installing SuSe or Mandrake. Even a child can install those. It's fully autodetect and doesn't require any tweaking from your side (unless u have some rare hardware). They come with many CD's and have all software normal user need. I suggest trying things out before you start throwing opinions that are based on nothing
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Old 2004-01-13, 11:02   Link #60
Megane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Mac OS is popular in the consumer market? News to me.
I'm not sure if the same holds for countries other than England, but last time I checked, Macs were still pretty damn popular. Especially in academic establishments (there were a lot of iMacs in my secondary school, and I still see quite a few through the windows of various offices on my univeristy campus), and in the offices of small to medium sized businesses.

Of course Apple doesn't hold a market share anywhere near as big as Microsoft, but unless you meant something specific when you said "consumer market", I don't think it's fair to instantly dismiss them as being unpopular.
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