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Old 2004-09-19, 15:28   Link #21
F!reStr!fe
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I have a feeling that the Second Hokage was from the water country.
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Old 2004-09-19, 15:40   Link #22
strategos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
And this idea behind this new village appealed to a lot of strong ninja's hence Konoha had such strong clans.

Thing that struck me a bit odd is Konoha's age, Sarutobi was 68 when he died. In the flashback of young Sarutobi the first(and the second for that matter) seemed 40-ish to me, 50 if you will, but no more then that.

Taking 45 as the age of the first in the flashback and 12 for Saruboti.
The first founded Konoha in his 20's perhaps? It would't seem plausible to create village's when your 15 so 20 at it's earliest seems reasonable.

now for the mathematics.

45-12 = 33 (age of first when sarutobi was born)
20 = age of first creating Konoha
68 = age of Sarutobi dying
68 + 13(33-20) = 81 years of Konoha

The numbers I'v taken for the ages are quite small, Personally I don't think the first created a village at 20 So I think Konoha is even younger. But for the sake of argument I used these.

Most Dad's of genin's are like..30-40 so they should have their father's around somewhere wich should be in their 50-60's. Their grandfathers would be 80-90 at that's over Konoha's probable age.
All in all that's like..3 generations of each clan while IN konoha. So....

Holy shit...I just realized I have nowhere to go with this, I thought I was making a point but im not...

I'll post it anyway for critisim on my calculation
good point
the village it self is the youngest village of them all.
Probably the 1st and second were smart enough to unite all those clans
Probably the clan them self were like the people of Hidden Village of Falls from
the Jump festa 2004 episode
They just united. Many clans have Blod Limit or any special traits or ability
When we see the episode explaning Haku, they said that Village feared Blood Limit People. So the Village of Leaf is strong becuase it has the Uchiha, bugs type, the dog type, Huyga (sorry for the miss spelled, chouji clan, the shika clan, and an ohter clan that still we dont know about.
the feudal Lord probably saw this as a advantage and moved from sand to the leaf. that probably the war they alwyas are talking, Sandvs Leaf. I think it was 3 or 4 episode before the tornument started when temari remeber the conversation with his jounin sensei.
they explain how the feudal lord just left them
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Old 2004-09-19, 20:12   Link #23
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strategos
good point
the village it self is the youngest village of them all.
Probably the 1st and second were smart enough to unite all those clans
Probably the clan them self were like the people of Hidden Village of Falls from
the Jump festa 2004 episode
They just united. Many clans have Blod Limit or any special traits or ability
When we see the episode explaning Haku, they said that Village feared Blood Limit People. So the Village of Leaf is strong becuase it has the Uchiha, bugs type, the dog type, Huyga (sorry for the miss spelled, chouji clan, the shika clan, and an ohter clan that still we dont know about.
the feudal Lord probably saw this as a advantage and moved from sand to the leaf. that probably the war they alwyas are talking, Sandvs Leaf. I think it was 3 or 4 episode before the tornument started when temari remeber the conversation with his jounin sensei.
they explain how the feudal lord just left them
Well we don't really know if Konoha is any younger than the other villages, maybe as Hunter suggested a period of strife forced the creation of first confederations and later the villages as we know them. For all we know modern ninja-dom in the world of Naruto is no more than 90 years old. This would mean the ninja wars was a very important moment in ninja history, it would be the event that forced the ninjas out of an isolated clan system and into forming villages.
Or maybe Konoha was created by the First as a result of the war, a rallying point for disperse ninja clans to unite in the common goal of survival.
Something that might be interesting to speculate on is wether the Uchiha was the first Bloodline to develop in Konoha, or if the Sharingan users immigrated to Konoha like the Hyuuga and some of the others must have done.
Another thing that might be interesting to consider is how many of the current clans are on their way to developing bloodlines, will future Naras have the innate ability to control shadows? Will Inuzukas have a natural empathy towards animals? Will Akimichi clan members develop a perfect espherical shape??
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Old 2004-09-19, 20:55   Link #24
strategos
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the uchiha clan was one of the first clans there becuase if we read the manga in the new itachi flash back they talk about how they became the police of konoha. The Naruto World is so big, in terms that we get more and more question around everything. THE fact is the the first and second one was from the village of water because it used a water techinque and the other used a earth technique. All the Hokage, as we seen in the flash, always talk about how to love the people to care and protect the people. To give ur life for the people. Something that we know that the village of Sand or Mist doesnt do.We know the mist to get to gennin u most kill ur friends. And Sand, we know how they are because technically they created Gaara.
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Old 2004-09-20, 02:27   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strategos
the uchiha clan was one of the first clans there becuase if we read the manga in the new itachi flash back they talk about how they became the police of konoha. The Naruto World is so big, in terms that we get more and more question around everything. THE fact is the the first and second one was from the village of water because it used a water techinque and the other used a earth technique. All the Hokage, as we seen in the flash, always talk about how to love the people to care and protect the people. To give ur life for the people. Something that we know that the village of Sand or Mist doesnt do.We know the mist to get to gennin u most kill ur friends. And Sand, we know how they are because technically they created Gaara.
Well...Sarutobi specialized in Doton and Katon, so was he from the Country of Fire or from the Country of earth?

Your probably right since they were reffered to as "special techniques" and they were very high level and The appereance of the first and second (red armor = earth, blue armor = water) could say something. But don't quote me on that because it might be a bit farfetched.
And by the way, the first used mokuton(wood element) wich does connect with earth,but you get my point.

Good point about the Uchiha clan, In their new village they needed ofcourse a new protective tool, to uphold their laws. The Uchiha (who must have existed far before that, but since they are superior in Katon, they must be from the fire Country) took that honorable task.

Hyuuga must be one of the oldest clans in Konoha too, since the Leader is always braggin about the clans Strenght and i think the Main/branch system wans't invented in just 80 years. They imply very old somewhat onorthodox laws.
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Old 2004-09-20, 09:01   Link #26
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how can the first and second come from diffirent countries, if are remember correctly the 1st and 2nd Hokage are brothers, with the 1st being the elder brother.

they may have come from some other ninja village from the fire country, they just combine the diffirent small villages to form Konoha.
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Old 2004-09-20, 09:59   Link #27
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i think it's not possible that the first and the second were from a different country...i would like to point out that the hokages know most of the jutsu so in their experience they must have learnt all that kinda jutsu around...look at kakashi he learned 1000+ with his sharigan that doesn't make him from another village....
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Old 2004-09-20, 11:26   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Steffa
i think it's not possible that the first and the second were from a different country...
why is that?
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Old 2004-09-20, 11:37   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Animizzle
why is that?
The fact that they're, oh... I dunno... brothers, to begin with?

But when I think back on it, in feudal times, you got a lot of people adopting people unofficially as a "big brother" (well, in those Chinese soaps, anyway) after a display of strength. So, who knows, they might have been brothers in name only rather than by blood.
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Old 2004-09-20, 11:40   Link #30
Animizzle
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Originally Posted by Hanabi
The fact that they're, oh... I dunno... brothers, to begin with?

But when I think back on it, in feudal times, you got a lot of people adopting people unofficially as a "big brother" (well, in those Chinese soaps, anyway) after a display of strength. So, who knows, they might have been brothers in name only rather than by blood.
yeah that's what i meant :P
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Old 2004-09-20, 18:21   Link #31
strategos
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the first and second were the sensei of 3rd and the other two that are old that belong to the council. the one that talked to Jiraya in episode 81, wantting them to be Hokage. The 1st and second probably taught them earth and water technique because we saw the 3rd doing a earth technique. PRobably is right thet each country fire, earth, water, wind, lightning had different clans and joined together and amade hidden village. But i think that the Most oldest village could be is the Sand, MIst and Earth. Because the first and second probably came frothose village.Some say that the first and second were borther but iI think they called themself brother because they are very close friend, LIke KOnohanamaru calling Naruto, Naruto-Onichan,( I think is big brother) The country of Sand might be also one of the oldest because the feudal lord of Fire was the one that was the one who was giving money to the Sand before the War of Sand and leaf. And now he is giving money to LEaf. LIke the jounin sensei of gaara said.
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Old 2004-09-20, 22:42   Link #32
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animizzle
Well...Sarutobi specialized in Doton and Katon, so was he from the Country of Fire or from the Country of earth?

Your probably right since they were reffered to as "special techniques" and they were very high level and The appereance of the first and second (red armor = earth, blue armor = water) could say something. But don't quote me on that because it might be a bit farfetched.
And by the way, the first used mokuton(wood element) wich does connect with earth,but you get my point.

Good point about the Uchiha clan, In their new village they needed ofcourse a new protective tool, to uphold their laws. The Uchiha (who must have existed far before that, but since they are superior in Katon, they must be from the fire Country) took that honorable task.

Hyuuga must be one of the oldest clans in Konoha too, since the Leader is always braggin about the clans Strenght and i think the Main/branch system wans't invented in just 80 years. They imply very old somewhat onorthodox laws.
strategos:It's possible that the 1st ands 2nd Hokages came from a different village or from some place other than Konoha originally, I just don't think they came from any village that exists at present, before the war these villages may have not even existed. You can't say that either the Sand, Mist or Earth villages are the oldest simply because we see techniques with these elements, the techniques could've existed and where later adopted by these villages because they fit their fighting style.
I don't think that the Uchiha being chosen as a police force implies they where the first clan there, they where probably chosen for being the strongest clan, or the most numerous. I think a good pointer as to how old the Uchiha clan is (in other words how probable it is the clan originated in Konoha) would be how young most of its sharingan users seem to be. We don't see many ninja clan members older than maybe 30-40, even though there are a lot of them.
Animizzle: I didn't mean ninjas appeared only 80 years ago, I meant the villages (or atleast Konoha) where created only 80 years ago. The clans could've existed long before that. I agree that the Hyuuga clan's age must go far beyond 80 years, which probably means it's older than Konoha.

Last edited by VMLM3; 2004-09-21 at 10:27.
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Old 2004-09-21, 09:52   Link #33
Hunter
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I fail to see why you think that if Ninjas use a particular element jutsu that means they come from a particular country and hidden village.

Without even speaking of Kakashi because he has a Sharingan, we saw many ninja using Doton, Katon, Suiton, Futon, Raiton while they weren't from a country which would have an according name.

When Kakashi explained at the beginning of the series how to mix chakra to transform it into these different kind of jutsu, he never said that they were reserved to the ninja of other country lol

Orochimaru, the 3rd, Kakashi, Kabuto, The 2nd, the 1st, Tsunade, Jiraiya, Itachi, Zaku,
Spoiler:

They all used jutsu using various elements.

Maybe the hidden village can be specialized into a certain type of jutsu but that can't stop other ninja to use them as well.

Also it's impossible that The 1st and 2nd came from Konoha because they founded this village.

As for the age of the Uchiha clan,
Spoiler:
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Old 2004-09-21, 10:18   Link #34
VMLM3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
As for the age of the Uchiha clan,
Spoiler:
hmm good point... But i'd be damn dissapointed if the Uchiha weren't originally from Konoha...
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Old 2004-09-21, 10:49   Link #35
strategos
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I dont say earth, sand and mist are the oldest because of the tehcniqe. I said Sand most be one of the oldest because it was being funding by the feudal lord that now is funding the(giving money) the leaf and cut the $$ to more than half of what traditional it was giving. Also u must look how is the Sand village they way it look looks older than leaf. MIst, I think the mist is also one of the oldest because one of the Hokage came from there Also because they had a tradition that the gennin have to kill each other. So a tradition like that or any kind of tradition wouldnt be like a 50 ear tradition i think it would be more than a 100 year old tradition. and the earth must be one of the oldest since probably the other Hokage probably came from that village.. The Uchiha most likely fit in the Mist country because off the way the were. Mist killing each other
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Old 2004-09-21, 12:25   Link #36
Animizzle
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Originally Posted by Hunter
Without even speaking of Kakashi because he has a Sharingan, we saw many ninja using Doton, Katon, Suiton, Futon, Raiton while they weren't from a country which would have an according name.
U saw anybody use raiton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by strategos
I dont say earth, sand and mist are the oldest because of the tehcniqe. I said Sand most be one of the oldest because it was being funding by the feudal lord that now is funding the(giving money) the leaf and cut the $$ to more than half of what traditional it was giving.
You mean feudal lords or lord? That makes a big difference because that feudal lord would have to be and extremely old fart as you state that Sand is very old.
All in All I don't see where you getting at with the feudal lords. Apart from feudal lords Village's get money from completing missions...

Quote:
Also u must look how is the Sand village they way it look looks older than leaf.
The way the sand village looks has nothing to do with age, it's a different enviroment.

Quote:
MIst, I think the mist is also one of the oldest because one of the Hokage came from there Also because they had a tradition that the gennin have to kill each other. So a tradition like that or any kind of tradition wouldnt be like a 50 ear tradition i think it would be more than a 100 year old tradition. and the earth must be one of the oldest since probably the other Hokage probably came from that village.. The Uchiha most likely fit in the Mist country because off the way the were. Mist killing each other
er, so a village is old because -supposedly- the 2nd Hokage came from there? And the Hokage is somebody with a huge lifespan? You're not making sense.
Mist and Rock village could have exsited way before both the Hokahes were born, you can't deduct anything from that.

The Uchiha from mist, that's priceless, I won't bother to respond.
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Last edited by Animizzle; 2004-09-21 at 19:53.
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Old 2004-09-21, 12:34   Link #37
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Animizzle
U saw anybody use raiton?
Yeah Tsunade when she screwed up the nervous system of Kabuto
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Old 2004-09-21, 13:25   Link #38
Animizzle
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Yeah Tsunade when she screwed up the nervous system of Kabuto
hahahaha, you cheater :x

edit:
Come to think of it..what must raiton look like? Shooting a lightning flash from the palm of their hands?
Actually Kakashi may have used some raiton in episode 5 when he surprises his 3 pupils by controling the weather. But most likely not. The idea that chakra could control weather is ridiculous altogether.

I have no clue what we can expect from raiton, maybe Kishimoto felt the same way, that's why we haven't seen any.
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Last edited by Animizzle; 2004-09-21 at 19:58.
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Old 2004-09-21, 20:26   Link #39
strategos
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Look for the episodes were the Jounin sensei of Gaara explain the true details of the mission. He say that the feudal lord change from sides from sand to leaf. I think it was the episode before the tornement, 3 episode before. Also I say that the MIst and earth must be way older thatn leaf, because if the 1st and 2nd came from those village then those village are more older that we know of
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Old 2004-09-21, 20:39   Link #40
Hunter
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Animizzle I wasn't kidding, the move that Tsunade used is a Raiton jutsu.
She transformed her chakra into electricity in order to screw up Kabuto's nervous system, and to transform your chakra into electricity is precisely what Raiton means.

There isn't a particular form of Raiton, like Temari's fan and Baki's wind sword are both futon jutsu using wind but doesn't look like each other.

Strategos it was never hinted that The 1st and the 2nd came from the Mist or the Stone village.
And they're sibling anyway, they can't came from different countries.
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