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Old 2004-10-09, 08:57   Link #101
Umbrae
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjuronord
Interesting sidenote, in the 1996 elections in Russia, Yeltsin barely beat the Communist candidate and many early polls had Stalin receiving more votes than Yeltsin. Yes, the dead guy... Good movie about it too. Spinning Boris

Honestly that does not supprise me. A dead guy was elected govenor in the US once. People get used to a name in goverment, the world did not end thus they figured that person must be doing a good job. Hell even George Bush won, is arguably the worst US president in history and has a 50/50 shot at a 2nd tearm.
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Old 2004-10-09, 11:43   Link #102
Green²
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Do remember that Bush stated that he will go after anyone with WMD's who may have the desire to sell them to terrorist organizations. Bush does claim this as a reason on why we invaded Iraq. If the UN and the weapons inspectors were given more time, we probably would've been able to learn then that Iraq had no WMD's. And this war with Iraq today would have never happened.

Today, we find ourselves with two more problems. Iran is currently believed to be building nuclear weapons within all of these new nuclear facilities that Iran has built. Are their intentions for self-defense? Or do they plan on marketing these nuclear arms to anyone who has the money? That is if they are building nuclear weapons. It could be all for just electrical power for all I know, but it should be the job of the UN to know.

The second problem is North Korea. Believed to have already developed nuclear weapons, it is also believe that they do have the intention to sell those weapons to anyone that will meet that price for them, even terrorist. But didn't we go into Iraq for the same exact reason? Then this means that we will eventually go to war with North Korea next? Certainly not before election time, but if Bush does try to pull the same shit as he did in Iraq and go at it alone, I will guarantee that Bush will have no choice but to bring back the draft. All because we do not have the manpower.

But does this mean that Kerry will not bring back the draft? No. If he fails to form a large enough collation to confront North Korea, then the choice is to either ignore the threat of North Korea, or to bring back the draft so that we do have enough in manpower to properly confront North Korea. But should the draft be the decision, then I would be most honored to fight North Korea should I be called to duty.

But fuck Bush. The way he has been running everything, should Bush call me to duty, I'd probably run up to Canada.
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Old 2004-10-10, 00:27   Link #103
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some hilarious site to ease the seriousness in this thread -_-;;;;
http://www.jibjab.com/
it was quite hilarious for me.
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Old 2004-10-10, 00:43   Link #104
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I've just watched the Debate. And I think they're both good at being the US president. until now... I am unsure wu will win.
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Old 2004-10-10, 12:34   Link #105
wnkryo
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If your a BUSH fan or if your NOT a BUSH fan, you HAVE TO read this article!!!

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/sp...es/000637.html
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Old 2004-10-10, 12:37   Link #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green²
But fuck Bush. The way he has been running everything, should Bush call me to duty, I'd probably run up to Canada.
im not a bush or kerry fan. though, both said they were against the draft, only bush said that it wouldn't happen.
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Old 2004-10-10, 12:55   Link #107
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
If your a BUSH fan or if your NOT a BUSH fan, you HAVE TO read this article!!!

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/sp...es/000637.html

Well of course his father,Cheney,had to tell him what to say
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Old 2004-10-10, 13:46   Link #108
Ialdaboth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green²
Today, we find ourselves with two more problems.[snip]
In fact, there's a third problem that is way more worrying than Iran and N. Korea (who would probably stay in their corner if no one bother them) : Pakistan.

If there's ONE country from which terrorists may obtain nuclear weapons, this is this one.
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Old 2004-10-10, 15:58   Link #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ialdaboth
In fact, there's a third problem that is way more worrying than Iran and N. Korea (who would probably stay in their corner if no one bother them) : Pakistan.

Are you fucken kidding me? The BIGGEST problem is america. They think they are the boss of the whole fucken world, and that they can go around and start wars with who ever the fuck they want. And the funniest part is that they don't want countries to develop WMD, but hipocriticly, they have and are making the most WMD in the world. Fucken basterds.
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Old 2004-10-10, 16:08   Link #110
Sanjuronord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnkryo
If your a BUSH fan or if your NOT a BUSH fan, you HAVE TO read this article!!!

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/sp...es/000637.html
So not only did Kerry beat Bush in the debate, he beat everybody whispering into Bush's ear too? Nice. Seriously, that's disturbring if it's true since it's implying that he's cheating to win. Not that his tactics weren't already a pack of lies, but that certainly adds to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skillosopher
im not a bush or kerry fan. though, both said they were against the draft, only bush said that it wouldn't happen.
If I remember right, he dodged the question though. He was also asked if he opposed the draft where would he find the numbers to meet the military's needs. He basically just went off about how great a volunteer army is without saying how he'd get more recruits. Kerry said he opposed it, wanted to get more foreign troops in there, and made a vague promise that he'd also increase our numbers by 40,000 though he didn't say where he'd get them from.

My thoughts on the draft are this: Neither candidate can really promise they won't have to enforce a draft if the situation gets bad enough. Bush basically made a claim that he could likely have to break. If a situation is bad enough, obviously a draft might be seen as an acceptable alternative, but that's part of the problem. Bush has a way of making a mountain out of a mole hill, and he's very succesful at convinving Americans to see it his way. What Bush and Kerry consider a situation serious enough to revive the draft are going to be two very different things. How quickly they turn to the draft is gonna be different too. Obviously Bush is going with the "our way or the highway" approach with foreign assistance. Kerry would be more willing to pursue getting foreign assistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Honestly that does not supprise me. A dead guy was elected govenor in the US once. People get used to a name in goverment, the world did not end thus they figured that person must be doing a good job. Hell even George Bush won, is arguably the worst US president in history and has a 50/50 shot at a 2nd tearm.
Right but this is Stalin here, this is a guy some people place on the same level as Hitler and he had more support than democracy...
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Old 2004-10-10, 16:33   Link #111
Green²
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillosopher
im not a bush or kerry fan. though, both said they were against the draft, only bush said that it wouldn't happen.
Because Bush will ignore the real threats? Or maybe Bush will go after someone such as North Korea, but with insufficient man power? Hell, Bush is currently pulling some of the US forces out from South Korea to fight in Iraq right now. There is no way that we can properly fight a battle with someone such as North Korea at this time.

For Bush to say that he will not bring back the draft no matter what happens, is either:

1) A lie. (If he does bring back the draft.)

2) Incompetence/Ignorance to the reality at hand. (Should he refuse to bring back the draft while starting another battle without sufficient man power. (But forget not that the draft can probably be avoided if you can build a large enough coalition, which Bush is likely unable to do.))

3) Or both of the above.

The draft IS a option for even if you vote for Bush or Kerry.

Also, Bush does not see man power as a important source of military strength. Instead, his answer is to replace that man power with more destructive WMD's. It doesn't get any more asinine than that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ialdaboth
In fact, there's a third problem that is way more worrying than Iran and N. Korea (who would probably stay in their corner if no one bother them) : Pakistan.

If there's ONE country from which terrorists may obtain nuclear weapons, this is this one.
I can neither confirm of deny that this is true. I haven't heard of Pakistan wanting to sell nuclear weapons to terrorist. If it were true, it is quite surprising that we haven't seen a mushroom cloud within Israel by now. Pakistan has had nuclear weapon for many years. But the reason that Pakistan has nuclear weapons is mainly for self-protection against India, who also has nuclear weapons.

Though I still believe that North Korea is the greatest threat of the three.
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Old 2004-10-10, 16:39   Link #112
LoveOfAnime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Are you fucken kidding me? The BIGGEST problem is america. They think they are the boss of the whole fucken world, and that they can go around and start wars with who ever the fuck they want. And the funniest part is that they don't want countries to develop WMD, but hipocriticly, they have and are making the most WMD in the world. Fucken basterds.
= :fingers:

Spelling Lesson for you

1. fucken = fucking! Is not that hard to type proper ending on your words

2. hipocriticly = hypocritically! I know that one is harder but that is what
dictionaries are for!

3. basterds = bastards! This one just really rubbed me the wrong way as it is
such a simple typo.

If you are going to spout such nonsense at least spell properly so you do not look completely idiotic.
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Old 2004-10-10, 17:33   Link #113
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopelessLover
Are you fucken kidding me? The BIGGEST problem is america. They think they are the boss of the whole fucken world, and that they can go around and start wars with who ever the fuck they want. And the funniest part is that they don't want countries to develop WMD, but hipocriticly, they have and are making the most WMD in the world. Fucken basterds.
Please don't be a totaly moron and say America is this or that. The people that run the country are not America. When you say stuff like the above you just make yourself look like an idiot.
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Old 2004-10-10, 19:17   Link #114
MidoriShinobi
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Nobody could ever change my mind in supporting Kerry.
He's just WAY sexier than Bush could ever be.
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Old 2004-10-10, 23:13   Link #115
JERI
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Quote:
Kerry: Say, your hand feels strange... could it be covered with IRAQI OIL?

Bush: I'd better not squeeze your hand too hard and hurt you, or they'll give you another PURPLE HEART!

Kerry: If only your grip on world issues was as strong as your grip on my hand!

Bush: Well maybe you should try shaking with your other hand. Then, change your mind and go back to the other hand. Then change your mind again, and keep flip flopping back and forth between your hands until no one's sure which hand you want to shake with.

Kerry: Wow, this handshake's going on even longer than your service in the national guard!

Bush: I didn't even know that you French people shook hands to greet each other, I was expecting you to kiss me on the cheeks!

Kerry: RIGHT-WING IDIOT!

Bush: LEFT-WING FLIP FLOPPER!
This is from fark, it's just too hilarious not to be posted here.
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Old 2004-10-11, 00:15   Link #116
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi
Nobody could ever change my mind in supporting Kerry.
He's just WAY sexier than Bush could ever be.
Hey what about The Sexy John Edwards.
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Old 2004-10-11, 01:48   Link #117
MidoriShinobi
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Edwards is pretty sexy, too.
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Old 2004-10-11, 04:07   Link #118
Sanjuronord
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And now for the swimsuit portion of the debates...and the ratings have gone from 60 million to 2 homes....
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Old 2004-10-11, 05:13   Link #119
Umbrae
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So did any one watch the 3rd party debate on Cspan3?

Cannidates from: The Green party, Libritarians, The Constitutional party, and The Soccalist party.

Amazingly, they sat down debated had widly differnt views, but explained THIER view without critizing one another constantly. Actualy answering questions about Abortion, Iraq, World oil, US foren policy, Tax reform, ect. Yet, dispite thier extreamly varrying views on most issues. They all agreed the Patriot act should be illeagle under the constitution, and it violates citizens rights.

Personaly I have almost always voted for the Green Party.

http://www.gp.org/ - green party
http://www.lp.org/ - Libritarian party

I forgot the sites the socalist and constitution party listed.

I myself, feel the green party and libritarian were truly the winners here. The constitution party cannidate sounded more like a preacher to me than a presidental nominee. The Socialist cannidate made some good points, but seemed to disorganized, and honestly a bit old. . . yea he made cheney look spry.

The reason I watch this, because honestly as much as I bash the 10% of undecided voters I fall into this catagory. Not because I look at kerry and bush and wonder which would be better at the nation. Yet instead I more presonal delima. I have never voted democratic or republican. I have voted for who I best thought would server our country as president. Now though, I am faced with a tough choice. With the country split nearly 50/50, if I do not vote for kerry that gives bush that slightly smaller chance to continue destroying our country, our freedom, and all the values I find important in america. Yet if I vote for kerry, I also compromise a value I have always held dear. To parafhase a cannidate

Land of the free home of the brave. Commonly quoted, rarely considered. In order to be free, you must be brave enugh to stand up for your belifs.

In 2000, Ralph Nader of the green party got almost 3% of the votes.
Considering only about 20% of the nation (based on personal questions and debates with people I speak to at work, and in my personal life) knows who the green party cannidate was. Only 10% knowing what the green party stood for. still managing to obtain 3% of the overall vote is a huge accomplishment. These parties are not running 12 comercial ads a day on TV. They are not allowed onto public broadcast national debates, in some states they are not even allowed on the ballot!
The problem I have choosing Bush or Kerry is this. Bush's platform is not somthing I care for. Kerys platform honestly is not much differnt than Bush. As of late the Democratic, and Republican parties have more simmilarities than they do differances. Holding so much of the media attention, and gaining a huge portion of voters based on tradition (I know ALOT of people that vote dem/rep because thier parents did). They no longer have to truly work for the voters. They have the voters, it is just a question of ganering favor over one another. This is not american politics, that is honestly a little short of a dictator. A group of privatized people belonging to know corrupt orginizations decide one of 2 people for you to pick from. Please, what happend to democracy? When did we stop beeing a democractic republic, and become just a republic?

To slightly miss quote a cannidate, I belive it was libritarian cannidate (although it could be green party; I work nights, this debate forced me to only get 3.5 hours sleep to watch it, forgive the lack of remembing exact details)
"Recently one the campign trail, I saw outside of one of the presidents speaches a 'free speach zone'. Only this was a chain link fence, with razor wire spiraled over the top. I was appaled some one had the odacity to lable this a free speech zone. That is not a free speach zone, that is a concentration camp. This is the united states of america, freedom of speech is in our constitution. Where ever I stand is a free speach zone."

If it were not for the problems facing this country aned the fact that person that instigated all of these problems stands a 50% chance of regaining office, I would vote green. But the truth is, I do not think america will prosper at all, and may dip irreparably with bush holding office 4 more years. But by god we need some of the reforms the green party is promising.

Such as

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Party
9. We believe in majority rule and reject the present method of election without a majority. Accordingly, we call for the use of Instant Runoff Voting in chief executive races, (mayor, governor, president, etc.) where voters can rank their favorite candidates (1,2,3, etc.) to guarantee that the winner has majority support and that voters are not relegated to choosing between the lesser of two evils.
My god, do you realize what an impact that would have on the US infastructure? Currently your choice is Bad or worse. Because, you have to rally behind the majority of the US.
If you had 1 full vote for who you wanted, one half vote for the next, and one quarter so on and so forth. You could, with much more safty vote for who you feel is needed to run the country.

If you consider yourself a demacrate, but have not looked up the issues of your party, or feel the democratic party has not supported YOUR issues, look into the green party. If your Republican, unless you own a multi million dollar bussness, look into the libritarian party. Not that these translate down exactly, but libritarians are more bussness orented, yet for small bussnes. Green party is left wing, or as the quote goes from one green party member "The Democratic Party is where progressive politics go to die."
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Old 2004-10-11, 11:19   Link #120
DekaMaster
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sure vote for the green party and waste your vote. When you vote for him you might as well smile and say YES I VOTED FOR BUSH as that is where your vote is going. Nader is a piece of shit. He doesn't give a rats ass about being president he just wants attention and the money he would get if he got a certain percentage of the vote. he didn't even campaign until the very end. So you go ahead and vote for Bush erm Nader. or better yet stay home and don't vote at all.
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