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Old 2004-10-13, 18:17   Link #41
JediNight
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Deckamaster: Apparently you misunderstood, my comment about "well-founded" was my point: Lunar has a history over numerous series for the same problems. I don't just randomly choose group names and decide to start bashing on them. You may PM me if you wish more info, but I don't want to be involved in flamewar here.

Quote:
Rule #1: Never trust JediNight on any fansub-reviews... all he ever does is group bash... He's done it in the past on these forums, as well as on Anime-Planet's forums...(The fact that he knows basically no Japanese, and states that we "fudge" translations (despite the fact we don't...) is simply proof of it...)
Lucier: I say who I think did a good job, and who I think did not as good a job -- thats what a review is. For those that are looking for more colloquial English, Lunar is a good release for them. I make my recommendations based on my preferences of Best quality video, pleasing well-blending typesets, and a fluid but more literal translation. Those people looking for the same things will appreciate my recommendation, those that don't care can take it with a grain of salt, its that simple.

On the note of no Japanese: I have just completed the required credits for my Japanese Minor. This includes 4 years of college-level Japanese courses, was in a Japanese guild in EQ and DAOC for practice, play FF11 where I have the JP client and converse frequently with Japanese players, and of course many many years of watching Anime that nets alot of experience in adding vocabulary/verbs/whatnot as well. I've heard interesting stories about your Japanese "experience" but I'm not going to bring that up here, just looking to clear up your statement.

(End of my replies, carry on with the topic at hand everyone, sorry)
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Old 2004-10-13, 19:48   Link #42
DekaMaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediNight
Deckamaster: Apparently you misunderstood, my comment about "well-founded" was my point: Lunar has a history over numerous series for the same problems. I don't just randomly choose group names and decide to start bashing on them. You may PM me if you wish more info, but I don't want to be involved in flamewar here.



Lucier: I say who I think did a good job, and who I think did not as good a job -- thats what a review is. For those that are looking for more colloquial English, Lunar is a good release for them. I make my recommendations based on my preferences of Best quality video, pleasing well-blending typesets, and a fluid but more literal translation. Those people looking for the same things will appreciate my recommendation, those that don't care can take it with a grain of salt, its that simple.

On the note of no Japanese: I have just completed the required credits for my Japanese Minor. This includes 4 years of college-level Japanese courses, was in a Japanese guild in EQ and DAOC for practice, play FF11 where I have the JP client and converse frequently with Japanese players, and of course many many years of watching Anime that nets alot of experience in adding vocabulary/verbs/whatnot as well. I've heard interesting stories about your Japanese "experience" but I'm not going to bring that up here, just looking to clear up your statement.

(End of my replies, carry on with the topic at hand everyone, sorry)

Would you like a tape measure? Anyway nice way to end a statement say how much you know then say a little line bashing a translator. You remind me of that guy at the fansub pannel at otakon bashing crustol
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Old 2004-10-13, 23:23   Link #43
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Apparently I wasn't clear enough. Dekamaster and Enron are getting banned.
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Old 2004-10-15, 00:26   Link #44
Tsukiyomi
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How come no one has mentioned the underdog yet?

IY-F subs are doing a pretty good job at Bleach as well. So far on par with akeep-anbu and also keeping some of the manga terms as well for the Bleach veterans.
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Old 2004-10-15, 02:18   Link #45
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi
How come no one has mentioned the underdog yet?

IY-F subs are doing a pretty good job at Bleach as well. So far on par with akeep-anbu and also keeping some of the manga terms as well for the Bleach veterans.
From the screenshots I have seen.... IY4ever might have somehow got the ending song incorrectly translated and they also have this habit (Which i personally hate) of leaving very hard to translate terms in romaji (like special moves). This leaves the clueless watcher feeling even more clueless.
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Old 2004-10-15, 11:19   Link #46
hooliganj
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I don't know if IY-F improved, but the video quality for the first episode was horrible. I'm usually pretty lax about that sort of thing, and maybe it's just because I already had two better looking versions to compare it to, but I wouldn't watch anything that poorly encoded.
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Old 2004-10-26, 01:01   Link #47
Rx_Fink
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I'm not grossly concerned with whose translations are more accurate. But I do have another question... Does anyone have any idea who has the Japanese lyrics (not the translations of the lyrics) for the opening theme right? I've never seen the lyrics between two subs vary so vastly. I like to learn to sing the song, but I can't really do that until I know who has the words right. So what's the general consensus on that?
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Old 2004-10-26, 01:22   Link #48
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rx_Fink
I'm not grossly concerned with whose translations are more accurate. But I do have another question... Does anyone have any idea who has the Japanese lyrics (not the translations of the lyrics) for the opening theme right? I've never seen the lyrics between two subs vary so vastly. I like to learn to sing the song, but I can't really do that until I know who has the words right. So what's the general consensus on that?
Generally, for a song like Bleach's OP, it's really hard to get right the first time. My guess, and another translator's guess is that no one has it right. You should probably wait until the single comes out with official lyrics.
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Old 2004-10-26, 02:27   Link #49
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rx_Fink
I'm not grossly concerned with whose translations are more accurate. But I do have another question... Does anyone have any idea who has the Japanese lyrics (not the translations of the lyrics) for the opening theme right? I've never seen the lyrics between two subs vary so vastly. I like to learn to sing the song, but I can't really do that until I know who has the words right. So what's the general consensus on that?
My guess: None of them. (I do not think a single group got the "Hitotsu futatsu" line's ending right.)

Wait for the single or songbooks (Which ever comes first).
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Old 2004-10-26, 02:35   Link #50
Rx_Fink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
Generally, for a song like Bleach's OP, it's really hard to get right the first time. My guess, and another translator's guess is that no one has it right. You should probably wait until the single comes out with official lyrics.
Yeah, I've been waiting for that, I'm eager to get my hands on it. Any idea when that will be?
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Old 2004-10-29, 22:37   Link #51
Kakashi8489
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@ NoSanninWa
Why are you only going to banned DekaMaster and Enron? If you going to banned them, you might as well banned JediKnight. Since he was flaming as well. One of his post that he was explaning about himself that he knows the Japanese language and he studied it. But, then at the end of his post he made a sarcastic remark "I've heard interesting stories about your Japanese "experience" but I'm not going to bring that up here, just looking to clear up your statement." to Luicer. That remark to me seems uncalled for and I would consider that flaming.

Also, I'm suprised on this topic that most of these people are extremely biased. All of you seem to think that anbu/akeep are the best and the greatest in the world, the people who don't agree with you, you start saying stuff back to them thinking that you'll change their minds and that's how the flaming starts. Just don't react to opinons of others if you don't agree with them entirely.

I think anbu/akeep and Lunar are doing a great job with Bleach. I just prefer Lunar's version more. I usually download a sereis that anbu/akeep sub, the ones that interst me of course. But with Bleach I prefer Lunar's version.
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Old 2004-10-30, 02:02   Link #52
iluid
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I think DekaMaster and Enron were banned for hijacking the thread w/ flames, not simply for flaming. They were warned, yet continued w/ many more posts, that's why they were banned when jedi wasn't. Also, I think it was just a temp ban so they would cool down, they can post again now.

And to stay a little on topic, I vote for keep/anbu or TW/Naisho. My big problem with lunar is the stupid timing/typeset style where part of the line comes up, then the rest later.
So lines end up
So lines end up like this.

I hate that, and won't watch releases from any group that abuses it like lunar ^^
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Old 2004-10-30, 09:19   Link #53
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluid
And to stay a little on topic, I vote for keep/anbu or TW/Naisho. My big problem with lunar is the stupid timing/typeset style where part of the line comes up, then the rest later.
So lines end up
So lines end up like this.

I hate that, and won't watch releases from any group that abuses it like lunar ^^
After seeing TW/Naisho... I'm not exactly sure what to think... the translations in the first minute are VERY different (compared to Krapbu)... one of the two is definitely being lazy or making stuff up... but at least the critical points match...
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Old 2004-10-30, 11:41   Link #54
hooliganj
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You might be surprised how different two interpretations of the same line can be, and still be perfectly accurate. As long as the critical points match, the rest is up to the translator.

Also TW did at least 6 volumes of the manga before it got licensed. While I wasn't that impressed with their version of the anime, I can't think of any reason that they would have to make anything up at this point.
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Old 2004-10-30, 13:21   Link #55
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
You might be surprised how different two interpretations of the same line can be, and still be perfectly accurate. As long as the critical points match, the rest is up to the translator.

Also TW did at least 6 volumes of the manga before it got licensed. While I wasn't that impressed with their version of the anime, I can't think of any reason that they would have to make anything up at this point.
From what I know, I would trust TW/Naisho more and would just think Krapbu was being lazy...... but here is one of the lines (this is FAR beyond interpretation) (I cant hear the japanese clearly enough to give romaji).
2:47 ep 1...
Krapbu (Keep/Anbu)
"He's crazy"

TW/Naisho
"I've never seen such irrational violence!"
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Old 2004-10-30, 16:55   Link #56
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
You might be surprised how different two interpretations of the same line can be, and still be perfectly accurate. As long as the critical points match, the rest is up to the translator.
Generally that is really only true out of context. However, if you have lines upon lines of context, there usually isn't many ways you can interpret something differently and still have it make sense, unless the script writer was being ambiguous.
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Old 2004-10-30, 17:16   Link #57
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluid
And to stay a little on topic, I vote for keep/anbu or TW/Naisho. My big problem with lunar is the stupid timing/typeset style where part of the line comes up, then the rest later.
So lines end up
So lines end up like this.

I hate that, and won't watch releases from any group that abuses it like lunar ^^
Hehe, that just happens to be a feature I really like I chose Lunars version because I like the bit of slang they use (only a bit, more would be bad) and slang is something that suits a series like Bleach (in other sho<s it'd be unacceptable)
Also Lunar uses a good font. The one minor point about Lunar's version is they fact they use the term Death God , that sounds rather lame imo
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Old 2004-10-30, 18:31   Link #58
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab
From what I know, I would trust TW/Naisho more and would just think Krapbu was being lazy...... but here is one of the lines (this is FAR beyond interpretation) (I cant hear the japanese clearly enough to give romaji).
2:47 ep 1...
Krapbu (Keep/Anbu)
"He's crazy"

TW/Naisho
"I've never seen such irrational violence!"
2:47? What timer are you using?

At about the 3 minute mark, what you hear is: 何て理不尽なんだ
Given the context, both of the above translations are appropriate, as is Lunar's "That's so messed up." You could also use "This is unreasonable" or make it fancier and try "This is simply unreasonable behavior", however, that wouldn't fit with the character who is delivering the line (random skater punk).

TW's might be considered the most accurate translation, but for that line (and indeed, the entire exchange) I think they interpreted the scene poorly. Keep's works better for the scene, but barely matches the original intent of the line, in other words, it's been interpreted too far. Lunar has substituted a slang term that suits both the situation and the translation nicely, so I think they win this one.

The point is, though, that they are all correct. When transformed into the wonderful medium of the English language where there are thousands of ways to communicate any idea, the filter known as the translator makes all the difference.
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Old 2004-10-30, 23:50   Link #59
ChoBaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShikaShika
This was the deciding factor for me. (You make up your own mind about what I decided.)
Aha! The classic mix up between picture and house! ('e' vs. 'ie')
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Old 2004-10-31, 05:23   Link #60
ShikaShika
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I believe the word used in this case was "iei". Someone said so in the Bleach thread at least, with manga scans to go along. Anyway, it's a pretty good example of stopping to think if something really makes sense.
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