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View Poll Results: what do you think of gundam seed Destiny so far?
good 105 70.47%
bad 44 29.53%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-01-15, 16:47   Link #161
Spitfire
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka View Post
This I also found quite annoying in the series. It might seem that all the Earth nations except Orb are just bunch of racist nazis. Much like you liked Astrays, I liked Stargazer. This series, though a short one, just showed potential not only in terms of form (the battle between a tank and Ginn was just more realistic than any fight in the whole CE universe) but also in presentation of EA pilots. That they actually could be cool and interesting.
However, Stargazer still made it seem that naturals were evil in some ways (the Slaughter Daggers mowing down those civilians in the camp, Phantom Pain attacking DSSD, a civilian organization, just to get an AI)

Of course, it did have some decent Natural characters, specifically Edmund and his tank copilot (forget his name) and the other Soldiers who were helping out in the flooded city.
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Old 2008-01-15, 16:50   Link #162
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However, Stargazer still made it seem that naturals were evil in some ways (the Slaughter Daggers mowing down those civilians in the camp, Phantom Pain attacking DSSD, a civilian organization, just to get an AI)

Of course, it did have some decent Natural characters, specifically Edmund and his tank copilot (forget his name) and the other Soldiers who were helping out in the flooded city.
Stargazer did not solve the problem of EA "evilness", but still having the CE series that focus more on the point of view of Earth Naturals was kinda refreshing after Destiny.
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Old 2008-01-15, 19:48   Link #163
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well stargazer was a different side in GSD era time telling a different story (even with cameo of GS series characters) it also show events after junius seven drop from Sven Cal Bayan & his past to the stargazer gundam.

& besides there are other GS project like that also there is astray shorts & mini GS (still laughing on all those eps)

also ya EA's EVIL thing well it's just lead to total RACISM massacre especially cause of blue cosmos, altantic federation, & LOGOS killing spree to kill anyone both coords & nats (if ya saw back in 31 of GSD) cause of Djibril.

& yet it seems that gil was being behind everything as the puppet master.
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Old 2008-01-15, 20:54   Link #164
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Another one of Destiny's problems was the unfair treatment they gave to the Naturals. I mean, shouldn't there be a Natural, i mean NATURAL(Not Newtype, nor Druggie) that could excel in Piloting??? SEED and Destiny Never did that... There should have been a Natural who can at least do damage!?
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Old 2008-01-15, 23:22   Link #165
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Originally Posted by Spitfire
I could never understand the extreme lengths they went to show just how evil and corrupted the Earth Alliance, and by proxy, naturals in general were. It always bothered me how the show became so one-sided; coordinators are the only good people in the universe, and only they can save us from ourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
It might seem that all the Earth nations except Orb are just bunch of racist nazis.
I thought that it was clear that the creators were trying to show how extremists had taken over the positions of power in the Atlantic Federation (and by extension, the Earth Alliance). Moreover, they went out of their way to show just how many groups opposed these extremists: most members of Orb, the Kingdom of Scandinavia, much of Eurasia, and anti-EA resistance groups all over.

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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
Much like you liked Astrays, I liked Stargazer. This series, though a short one, just showed potential not only in terms of form (the battle between a tank and Ginn was just more realistic than any fight in the whole CE universe) but also in presentation of EA pilots. That they actually could be cool and interesting.
Heh. I didn't like Stargazer much at all. In particular, I hated the first episode because I thought the GiNN vs. tanks combat was stupid. It's funny how different tastes can lead to completely opposite opinions of the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters
Another one of Destiny's problems was the unfair treatment they gave to the Naturals. I mean, shouldn't there be a Natural, i mean NATURAL(Not Newtype, nor Druggie) that could excel in Piloting??? SEED and Destiny Never did that... There should have been a Natural who can at least do damage!?
I totally agree. The creators overplayed the difference between Coordinators and Naturals, and it ended up permeating the rest of the shows. They could have easily made Cagalli into a butt-kicking pilot, but they decided against it. It'd be really nice if they decided to undo that mistake for the movie.
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Old 2008-01-15, 23:37   Link #166
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It's all a question of Naturals being totally pushed aside in this parade of power Destiny was.

As for political aspects, the extremists needed to deal with two kinds of people in order to reach their power: people of the same Blue Cosmos beliefs or ignorant/weak fools (the latter group was, unfortunately, joined by Cagalli thanks to Destiny). "Jaka nacja, taki przywódca", as Polish people say. "The leader reflects the nation he leads".

And about Stargazer... well... you like Destiny more than Code Geass, so I can see that we totally differ in our tastes. Unless you consider SEED (not Destiny) to be the best Gundam series so far (I'm not counting 00 as it is still airing and did not even reach half the season :P
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Old 2008-01-15, 23:58   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
As for political aspects, the extremists needed to deal with two kinds of people in order to reach their power: people of the same Blue Cosmos beliefs or ignorant/weak fools (the latter group was, unfortunately, joined by Cagalli thanks to Destiny).
While the rise of the Atlantic Federation extremist was never portrayed, it's sort of obvious how it came to pass. They probably painted PLANT as the boogeyman responsible for all their ills (which isn't that far from the truth), and themselves as the only solution.

On the other note, I think that Cagalli turned out quite well by the end of Destiny. She certainly showed the potential to be a very good leader (and probably much better than Uzumi).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Dearka
And about Stargazer... well... you like Destiny more than Code Geass, so I can see that we totally differ in our tastes. Unless you consider SEED (not Destiny) to be the best Gundam series so far (I'm not counting 00 as it is still airing and did not even reach half the season
Nah. I've watched all of the Gundam TV shows, and the order of my favorites is:
1. Victory
2. Turn A
3. Seed
4. Seed Destiny

I don't like Gundam 00, so I've decided to refrain from commenting on it in the episode threads. Or at least I'll do so until either it improves significantly, or it does something to really tick me off.

I'm not really a Gundam fan, so it shouldn't be surprising that our tastes differ.
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Old 2008-01-16, 00:27   Link #168
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I thought megazords aren't consider super or real because of the live action.
Well, it's a giant robot who combines from smaller ones which almost never loses a battle against a giant alien monster. That's a super robot in my book, regardless of it being animated or not.

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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Another one of Destiny's problems was the unfair treatment they gave to the Naturals. I mean, shouldn't there be a Natural, i mean NATURAL(Not Newtype, nor Druggie) that could excel in Piloting??? SEED and Destiny Never did that... There should have been a Natural who can at least do damage!?
That is a good point. Now that I think of it, there were almost no naturals who stood any chance against coordinators. In other Gundam series, there's at least a few "oldtypes" who stood a hell of a chance against newtype characters. Ramba Ral, Norris Packard and others were excellent pilots without being enhanced.
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Old 2008-01-16, 00:57   Link #169
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Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
Using my case where i work for EB games the CE Fans have a nickname for me *UC TRASH* Mind you they make it clear and all and *MOST* times in a none offensive manner. Im 25years old myself so i dont really get offended and just smile. But it doesnt help when CE fans openly resort to that level of method against UC Customers who happen to pick just say MSG as an example over the counter and give their comments out loud. Usually the mid teenagers are the worst but occasionalyy you get young adults also participating in this form of behaviour. They know who i am and have no probs saying it to me when they come into the store.

Even tho they are not always saying in a offending manner but it doesnt help the UC customers have to hear bunch of kids ganging up against me in small little debates saying UC is crap without really giving a decent reason. Im not saying all CE fans behave in this manner, but considering i have to deal with selling anime I found its CE fans that are making the drama over the UC fans. And yes there has been UC bashing CE at my store but its doesnt happen as frequent as CE bashing UC. Mind you tho it doesnt bother me too much that this attitude does happen, but i wish more CE fans could take a more mature approach to their reasons when these debates happen.

I consider the opinions of the CE fanatics who haven't actually seen any UC to be worthless when the subject matter is about UC. I suspect those unruly fanboys you encountered in your store is of that variety.


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Yes Rau did kinda went whacko at the end, and the guys didnt like that, but decided to look at his good sides as a militant. He obey his orders, he thinks and takes the best course of action and produces confidence amongst his men as a officer should (Not all officers have this ability), and of course since my fellow troopers had a biased view towards kira, they just wanted him to kick his ass. But i honestly think they saw him close as a supposed char clone. (the guys loved char)
I didn't think Rau went wacko at end. He was just in a state of emotional agitation because Kira Yamato is the main reason for his miserable life. All of his rants at end actually made perfect sense to me considering the cursed fate that was involuntarily placed upon him i.e. his nature of being cloned and the shortened lifespan because of the ultimate coordinator project. His nihilistic tendencies were always there in the early episodes.

I get the biased viewpoint towards Kira but c'mon the kid is a bit emotionally fragile but so what? I liked Rau also because of his sinister qualities i.e. he was a very good bad guy.

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Patrick... i dont think i mentioned him as a popular character but the guys liked him as a militant. He did what he believed was in the best interest of his nation like any good General would do. He wanted to prevent other forces from hurting his own nation and to me that sounds sane. Ultimatley RL Generals will lie to the government to get things done via politcal pressure or blackmail or any other means necessary to win a war. To me its normal for most of his actions, but typically they went over the top when they portrayed him as a genocidal maniac that made him into another joke by producing him as a whacko. To the guys it didnt feel natural of his sudden character change. But its anime these things happen. (The guys also felt that they gave Gilbert Durandal the same whacky treatment that just seemed out of character)
You see this is the common point where the 2 camps often disagree on. IMO neither Durandal nor Papa Zala were given the wacko treatment at the end. Durandal was already shown to be a clear whacko when he send a fleet of amphibious mobile suits to assassinate Lacus Clyne. There is also a mid-season episode that showed him playing an imaginary chess game against a ghost Rau which more or less revealed the pieces of the destiny plan and his motivation behind it. The destiny plan itself is a clear sign that Durandal is one of the the craziest and the most dangerous dictator ever. Even without his ensuing actions with the Requiem and Messiah I still would rate him as someone you would never want to elect to your local government office let alone something on a national level.

In the case of Patrick Zala it's the same thing really. You found out relatively early that he is certainly very millitant. In fact too militant for someone occupying the leader role of a civilian government.
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:12   Link #170
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I consider the opinions of the CE fanatics who haven't actually seen any UC to be worthless when the subject matter is about UC. I suspect those ruly fanboys you encountered in your store is of that variety.
I do agree, but it doesnt help the impression that a good strong portion of CE fans out there act in this manner including early to mid 20 year olds.

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I didn't think Rau went wacko at end. He was just in a state of emotional agitation because Kira Yamato is the main reason for his miserable life. All of his rants at end actually made perfect sense to me considering the cursed fate that was involuntarily placed upon him i.e. his nature of being cloned and the shortened lifespan because of the ultimate coordinator project. His nihilistic tendencies were always there in the early episodes.
Its hard to say tbh to us enlisted men who have seen the horrors of wars and dealt with it. But for the guys who have been thru hell and back, identity issue is nothing compared to sleepless nights and nightmares not knowing if you ever going to see home again.

I honestly think its our mindest at the time that may have fogged our impresson on his character.

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Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
You see this is the common point where the 2 camps often disagree on. IMO neither Durandal nor Papa Zala were given the wacko treatment at the end. Durandal was already shown to be a clear whacko when he send a fleet of amphibious mobile suits to assassinate Lacus Clyne. There is also a mid-season episode that showed him playing an imaginary chess game against a ghost Rau which more or less revealed the pieces of the destiny plan and his motivation behind it. The destiny plan itself is a clear sign that Durandal is one of the the craziest and the most dangerous dictator ever. Even without his ensuing actions with the Requiem and Messiah I still would rate him as someone you would never want to elect to your local government office let alone something on a national level.

In the case of Patrick Zala it's the same thing really. You found out relatively early that he is certainly very millitant. In fact too militant for someone occupying the leader role of a civilian government.
Tbh i dont wish to reply to this one. It may lead to a neverending cycle of disagreements.
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:14   Link #171
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Originally Posted by kiramuro
You see this is the common point where the 2 camps often disagree on. IMO neither Durandal nor Papa Zala were given the wacko treatment at the end. Durandal was already shown to be a clear whacko when he send a fleet of amphibious mobile suits to assassinate Lacus Clyne. There is also a mid-season episode that showed him playing an imaginary chess game against a ghost Rau which more or less revealed the pieces of the destiny plan and his motivation behind it. The destiny plan itself is a clear sign that Durandal is one of the the craziest and the most dangerous dictator ever. Even without his ensuing actions with the Requiem and Messiah I still would rate him as someone you would never want to elect to your local government office let alone something on a national level.
This is where I would have to vigorously disagree (Atleast on Dully, Not Zala)..Dullindal was lightswitched when it became convenient to the plot IMO...The episode where he and Rey tried to convince Shinn that Meyrin was working for LOGOS has to go down as one of the worst eps I''ve ever seen ($hit didn't even sound remotely like the Dully we had known)...Additionally, the only people who thought the Destiny Plan was crazy was Team Lacus...Dullindal had the support of the WORLD...Only an island the size of a cookie-crumb was against him...Honestly the Destiny Plan would have taken decades upon decades upon decades to be achieved...And if the people of the world wanted to be apart of it, it was their decision to make...You can't shoot medical needles like missiles and hit everyone on Earth in the arm...3,4 billion people have to want this change, and without the presence of the all-knowing Lacus Clyne who figured out Dully and his Destiny Plan was evil based on an incoherent scribble in a notebook who knows what their choice would have been...As for the whole "Coordies sent to kill Lacus point", it still was never substantiated in the anime that it was Dully, although I do suspect he needed it to be done based on her influence...In the end that failed mission was essentially his undoing, and I find many characters in this anime to be wacko's, but Dully ain't one of them...He's one of the only redeeming aspects of this tragic Gundam series for me...
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:22   Link #172
winter45
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Originally Posted by Dan the Man View Post
That is a good point. Now that I think of it, there were almost no naturals who stood any chance against coordinators. In other Gundam series, there's at least a few "oldtypes" who stood a hell of a chance against newtype characters. Ramba Ral, Norris Packard and others were excellent pilots without being enhanced.
Actually that is a good point.




Overall i found the lack of balance in pilot qualities for all factions to be a downfall in SEED and Destiny IMO. I always preferd if the protagonist had an equal and even times rival him in a consistant manner more interesting than a one sided showdown,

But im in mid 20's after watching alot of shows that the good guys always wins and at most time effortlessly in my younger years, it does get a bit old and dosnt appeal to me anymore.

Its one of my major reasons y im enjoying 00 much more, that the superpowers have elites and elite teams that can become a nuisance to the protagonists.

But this is only my interests and my opinion. Each individual has their owns tastes, unfortunatly CE as a whole didnt deliver what i would wish to see.
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:24   Link #173
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This is where I would have to vigorously disagree (Atleast on Dully, Not Zala)..Dullindal was lightswitched when it became convenient to the plot IMO...The episode where he and Rey tried to convince Shinn that Meyrin was working for LOGOS has to go down as one of the worst eps I''ve ever seen ($hit didn't even sound remotely like the Dully we had known)...Additionally, the only people who thought the Destiny Plan was crazy was Team Lacus...Dullindal had the support of the WORLD...Only an island the size of a cookie-crumb was against him...Honestly the Destiny Plan would have taken decades upon decades upon decades to be achieved...And if the people of the world wanted to be apart of it, it was their decision to make...You can't shoot medical needles like missiles and hit everyone on Earth in the arm...People have to want this change and without the presence of the all-knowing Lacus Clyne who figured out Dully and his Destiny Plan was evil based on an incoherent scribble in a notebook who knows what their choose would have been...As for the whole "Coordies sent to kill Lacus point", it still was never substantiated in the anime that it was Dully, although I do suspect it needed to be done based on her influence...In the end that failed mission was essentially his undoing, but I find many characters in this anime to be wacko's, but Dully ain't one of them...He's one of the only redeeming aspects of this tragic Gundam series...
First of all it was never stated whether or not the world was for it. For one thing the Atlantic Federation along with Orb, and Kingdom of Scandinavia was adamantly opposed to the plan. The rest wasn't mentioned.

Second lets just say that if one of our current presidential candidates (Hilary, Huckabee, Edwards, Obama, McCain, etc) suddenly proposed something similar to Durandal's plan tomorrow i.e. something having the effect of essentially creating a massive economic/individual planning bureaucracy then his or her rating would be in the shitter faster than Shinn can destroy a windam.

For the potential Libertarians in here you can read Hayek's The Road to Serfdom and then you'll realize why Durandal's plan is wacko.
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:30   Link #174
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All I said was he had the SUPPORT of the world....The world trusted him and if he were to bring a plan to the table that like 3 BILLION PLUS PEOPLE have to agree with and THEY DO, then sobeit...Suffice it to say Dullindal had about 90% of the Universe on his side with a small island and the always neutral Scandinavia against him... Morso, we're talking about a society seemingly hundreds if not thousands of years in the future, where the evolution of civilization is at stake and with the Coordinator birth-rate issues, so I can't really look at your Huckabee argument as a true analogy since the world issues are so vastly different...
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:35   Link #175
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All I said was he had the SUPPORT of the world....The world trusted him and if he were to bring a plan to the table that 3 BILLION PLUS PEOPLE have to agree with and THEY DO, then sobeit...Suffice it to say Dullindal had about 90% of the Universe on his side with a small island and the always neutral Scandinavia against him...We're talking about a society seemingly hundreds if not thousand of years in the future, where the evolution of civilization is at stake with the Coordinator birth-rate issues, so I can't really look at your Huckabee argument as a true analogy...
I have already refuted that point or have you already forgotten that the Atlantic Federation was opposed to the plan.

What evolution? It's not like Gil was proposing free coordinator upgrades to all the naturals. His goal is to create a massively enslaved society with him at the top of pyramid.
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:39   Link #176
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Durandal was already shown to be a clear whacko when he send a fleet of amphibious mobile suits to assassinate Lacus Clyne......
I would like to point out something here.. As wingdarkness has already pointed out that there was no evidence presented if Dully is the executioner on this.

Ill give you my reasons. One its very common on assisination attmepts that you either wear un-uniformed clothes (for obvious reasons) or wear a uniform of another rival/eneamy nation to fabricate false information of the true organisation or faction or nation that has sent the kill order. Its plain logic honestly...

2nd of all i bvelieve murrue overpowerd a so called Cordi assasin... we already know that cordies have fast reflex and improved strength so this makes me question the authenticity if they were actually co ordinators in the first place.

Equipment... hell we already know stealling gundams is as easy as sayin ABC in CE universe. so makes me wonder if the ZAFT suites have been stolen and use to fabricate ZAFT.. it s quite possible EA may have sponsered this assasination in retaliation of Kira and lacus for loosing the first war....

So unless i get SOLID Evidence i dont believe for one second that Dully boy is behind this attack.. given my nature i know too damn well how easy for one nation to fabricate another using stollen equipments and uniform.

So Clyne faction had no proof whatsoever it was Dully boy behind this, they only have speculation at this point, and speculation is not evidence and far from FACT.

Last edited by winter45; 2008-01-16 at 02:01. Reason: added extra paragraph
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:49   Link #177
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I have already refuted that point or have you already forgotten that the Atlantic Federation was opposed to the plan.

What evolution? It's not like Gil was proposing free coordinator upgrades to all the naturals. His goal is to create a massively enslaved society with him at the top of pyramid.


I'm sorry, that's not what I got out of Dullindal's aspirations at all...Not that he didn't have a god complex (because of how he lost Talia), but to be massively enslaved you have to first accept the slavery...The Destiny Plan is not something you can make happen overnight...It's not a red button you press...This is essentially a change in historic philosophy to placate war...He went off the deep end after Team Clyne interferred and he wanted to win at all costs at that point, but prior to that he had a vision...An arrogant vission indeed, but not one that could suceed without TIME and PUBLIC OPINION...We have a fudemental difference of view on Dully...I don't see him as an evil villain hellbent on becoming God on earth (That's Sousuke Aizen)...Far from it...Unfortunatley his swift change in character based on GSD's problems may have made some feel this way...

LOL OK I guess I forgot about Djbril's faction, so let's make that 80% of the Universe^^ (Assuming the federation is more than an enitity, because it's not like the citizens in their nations couldn't defect if they wanted to)...My point being he had waaaaaaay more support than opposition...
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Old 2008-01-16, 01:55   Link #178
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I would like to point out something here.. As wingdarkness has already pointed out that there was no evidence presented if Dully is the executioner on this.

Ill give you my reasons. One its very common on assisination attmepts that you either wear un-uniformed clothes (for obvious reasons) or wear a uniform of another rival/eneamy nation to fabricate false information of the true organisation or faction or nation that has sent the kill order. Its plain logic honestly...

2nd of all i bvelieve murrue overpowerd a so called Cordi assasin... we already know that cordies have fast reflex and improved strength so this makes me question the authenticity if they were actually co ordinators in the first place.

Equipment... hell we already know stealling gundams is as easy as sayin ABC in CE universe. so makes me wonder if they have been stolen and use to fabricate ZAFT.. it s quite possible EA may have sponsered this assasination in retaliation of Kira and lacus for loosing the first war....

So unless i get SOLID Evidence i dont believe for one second that Dully boy is behind this attack.. given my nature i know too damn well how easy for one nation to fabricate another using stollen equipments and uniform.
1. You forgetting that writers are generally clueless about the technical details.

2. However they are not usually clueless when it comes to getting their points across. Gil was awefully curious about Lacus' location and repeatedly ask Athrun to report back if he becomes aware of it. It's logical to assume that Gil wasn't doing this just because he wanted to send Lacus a Christmas card. The fact that he has a puppet Lacus right next to him is pretty damning evidence.


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I'm sorry, that's not what I got out of Dullindal's aspirations at all...Not that he didn't have a god complex (because of how he lost Talia), but to be massively enslaved you have to first accept the slavery...The Destiny Plan is not something you can make happen overnight...It's not a red button you press...This is essentially a change in historic philosophy to placate war...He went off the deep end after Team Clyne interferred and he wanted to win at all costs at that point, but prior to that he had a vision...An arrogant vission indeed, but not one that could suceed without TIME and PUBLIC OPINION...We have a fudemental difference of view on Dully...I don't see him as an evil villain hellbent on becoming God on earth (That's Sousuke Aizen)...Far from it...Unfortunatley his swift change in character based on GSD's problems may have made some feel this way...

LOL OK I guess I forgot about Djbril's faction, so let's make that 80% of the Universe^^ (Assuming the federation is more than an enitity, because it's not like the citizens in their nations couldn't defect if they wanted to)...My point being he had waaaaaaay more support than opposition...

I didn't say he was that type of person. However I do consider his philosophy to be a very dangerous one even if he doesn't realize it. That is the reason why I think he should stopped at all cost. I actually consider his type to be more dangerous than the truly outward crazy wackos.

Oh yeah if you watched the episode again then you'll see that most nations were still in the process of deciding when Gil truly went off into the deep end so no conclusion can be made about the overall support for the plan.
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Old 2008-01-16, 02:41   Link #179
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Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
1. You forgetting that writers are generally clueless about the technical details.
Ill give you that, but it wont help the viewers who understand these technicalities that can support Dullies innocence so wide open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiramuro View Post
2. However they are not usually clueless when it comes to getting their points across. Gil was awefully curious about Lacus' location and repeatedly ask Athrun to report back if he becomes aware of it. It's logical to assume that Gil wasn't doing this just because he wanted to send Lacus a Christmas card. The fact that he has a puppet Lacus right next to him is pretty damning evidence.
I agree its a FACT That he has a puppet Lacus. Its a FACT he asked Athrun of information of Lacus. But ITS NOT A FACT that he wanted to give lacus a christmas card or god forbid sending an execution team to get rid of her.
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Old 2008-01-16, 03:37   Link #180
winter45
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
This is where I would have to vigorously disagree (Atleast on Dully, Not Zala)..Dullindal was lightswitched when it became convenient to the plot IMO...The episode where he and Rey tried to convince Shinn that Meyrin was working for LOGOS has to go down as one of the worst eps I''ve ever seen ($hit didn't even sound remotely like the Dully we had known)...Additionally, the only people who thought the Destiny Plan was crazy was Team Lacus...Dullindal had the support of the WORLD...Only an island the size of a cookie-crumb was against him...Honestly the Destiny Plan would have taken decades upon decades upon decades to be achieved...And if the people of the world wanted to be apart of it, it was their decision to make...You can't shoot medical needles like missiles and hit everyone on Earth in the arm...3,4 billion people have to want this change, and without the presence of the all-knowing Lacus Clyne who figured out Dully and his Destiny Plan was evil based on an incoherent scribble in a notebook who knows what their choice would have been...As for the whole "Coordies sent to kill Lacus point", it still was never substantiated in the anime that it was Dully, although I do suspect he needed it to be done based on her influence...In the end that failed mission was essentially his undoing, and I find many characters in this anime to be wacko's, but Dully ain't one of them...He's one of the only redeeming aspects of this tragic Gundam series for me...
I wont add or remove any points from Wingdarkness here but in concerns with Dully this is exactly how i felt and so did my fellow soldiers.

It was like if Dully is a lightswitch as WD puts it.. only convenient to the plot when his uncharacter side came out. And even then im still not convinced his a bad guy.
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