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Old 2004-10-18, 13:38   Link #81
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neEd'Le
@kj1980
ok,so even after the parents learn from the police that their child has been bullied and eerrmm forced to prostitute-what,even after that they dont do nothing?
No. This is in some Asian cultures--pride and family name is more important that the welfare of children. Sometimes the parents even blame their children for being victims; they are ashamed of them rather than supportive. Sad, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neEd'Le
i mean..if my doughter is being forced to prostitute..oh,boy,im going to wait for the little fuck in a dark street with a steel pipe in my hand,and i wont stop beathing the motherfucker till i cripple him for real
That's the American spirit!
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Old 2004-10-18, 13:48   Link #82
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killermonk
I ask this of you Japanese citizens who find this bullying situation so troubling- why do you not take a stand? Bring all of this out in the open; it will probably give some people a wake up call. If it truly is as serious a problem as you claim, making it a public issue will attract more and more people who agree with you. My thoughts are that if you were to amass a large group of individuals against bullying, some higher-ups would acknowledge it as a serious issue.

If Japan is anything like where I live, then it is extremely possible. I've seen it happen here many times; in fact, my mother founded a land trust program in order to take a stand against the over-development going on around here. She gained support, which ended up leading to her group becoming a prominent figure in my town. Now, if you ask me, this bullying situation is FAR more serious than over development, so I can say quite confidently that there are a great number of people that would probably be willing to fight against it.
Such things do not work in Japan.

We all know it is a big problem. We don't do anything about it. Why? Because, we have other "big issues" (meaning: useless crap) to worry about. We selfishly assume this matter will resolve on its own, when in fact, is just a burgeoning and ticking time bomb.

So let’s look at the reality about groups who actually do try to take a stand.

Some parent fed up with all this ijime problem takes a stand and creates a support group for activists and creates a lobby against ijime. A liberal party in Parliament takes up the issue for their cause against the leading majority party.

Both sides debate the issue on a popular political show (something like “Meet the Press” and “Larry King Live” in the States)

Political parties involved:

Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) – the majority party of Parliament that had controlled the Japanese government since 1955 (with a minor lapse in the mid 1990s). They lead the conservative coalition along with the Komeito and the Liberal League.

Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ) – the largest minority party. They lead the liberal opposition along with the Japanese Communist Party (JCP), the Social-Democrats (SDP), and the Mushozoku-ha (Independents).

DPJ: “Ijime is a burgeoning problem that we face in our nation’s schools today. We knew about this all this time, but we’ve kept it under the rug because of the conservatives not caring about our nation’s childrens. All they cared was nurturing corporate zombies in our schools by promoting over-excessive excellence while being blind to our childrens’ mental and social health.”

LDP: “Once again, the DJP is attacking what we have achieved over the past fifty years. We are well aware of the problems that our children are facing. We have reduced schools from six days a week to five. We’ve set up after school programs and psychological call centres modeled after Germany. We’ve set national standards and protocols for school administrators to be more aware of students’ cry for help. We’ve spent trillions of yen for the well being of our nations’ schools and children. Only the liberals proclaim that what we have spent is not enough.”

DPJ: “XXX-kun (members of Parliament address each other with the suffix “-kun”), you cannot be as so blind? Spending trillions of our taxpayers money is worthless if results are not shown! Basically what you are saying is that we’ve spend trillions of our citizens’ money to try and resolve these issue. But in reality, do we see any effect? In the past decade, the national suicide level has jumped three-fold. We see our nation’s schoolgirls selling their own bodies for sex for their own luxury. We see teenage crime rising. Teachers and school administrators are apathetic to the children’s needs. Aren’t these results showing the LDP is wasting money?”

LDP: “XXX-kun, you’ve been a politician for what, thirty odd years? You know how the system works. Several years ago, we tried to pass a legislation in both Houses to add a oversight committee and government department to check on our schools. The liberals decried that this was nothing more than, and if I quote, ‘outrageous totalitarianism to feed our children dangerous nationalistic ideology.’”

DJP: “Well the problem of that so-called legislative bill rammed through by bureaucrats underneath your arms was that ambiguous rider that documented oversight of textbooks – which we all know is bullshit and fails to portray what really happened. That legislative BS is nothing more than LDP backed pork-barrel project to aid the Ministry of Education in glorifying our past mistakes.”

LDP: “What you are saying is dangerous, my friend. We, of course do not want to go that extreme – we are a democratic country that allows freedom of speech. All we want to know is that the truth is told as it was by having an independent historical council review those books.”

DJP: “Independent councils! Ha! Let me give you the political affiliates of those so-called ‘independent councils’ ”

Moderator: “Representatives of both parties, I need you to stay on topic. The issue here was about ijime.”

LDP: “Sorry, I got carried away.”
DPJ: “It won’t happen again.”

[exchange happens three times over the hour long debate]


Do you see where this is going? Nowhere. They are doing the same thing they are babbling about in Parliament. It’s pointless and useless. And you expect us citizens to give a shit about our country with how our elected representatives act in both Houses?


In the end, the conclusion is:

LDP: “What the DPJ is asking is, therefore, we increase more awareness to our nation’s school. Unfortunately, that means we need to raise taxes, which are high as it is to support such causes. Our economic situation right now cannot afford us to raise taxes.” (read: “You want something, we need to take more money out of your pockets. We know all you citizens have your own problems with finances, so do you really want the government to steal more money out of you? Vote conservative. Liberalism sucks.”)
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Old 2004-10-18, 13:58   Link #83
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neEd'Le
@kj1980
ok,so even after the parents learn from the police that their child has been bullied and eerrmm forced to prostitute-what,even after that they dont do nothing?i mean..if my doughter is being forced to prostitute..oh,boy,im going to wait for the little fuck in a dark street with a steel pipe in my hand,and i wont stop beathing the motherfucker till i cripple him for real
Too bad Japanese people have tons of "problems" in their minds:

A. Some group of bitches did this to my little daughter...man I want to kill them with my golf club

B. ....but wait a minute, I'm not that stupid. What will happen? I mean the consequences... I could go to jail, I can lose my job, who is going to pay the mortgage, what would the neighbors think...etc...
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Old 2004-10-18, 15:05   Link #84
Lexander
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I don't quite understand ... is bullying extra bad there? ... tolerated? accepted?

There was minor bullying and name calling in my school ... but it wasn't anything that would throw me in a state of depression. You go through some pretty awful stuff at school ... but you shake it off(worst case scenario is the movie rage ).

Extreme cases of bullying are delt with by the office here ... aren't you offered any help from the administration?
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Old 2004-10-18, 15:21   Link #85
kj1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lexander
I don't quite understand ... is bullying extra bad there? ... tolerated? accepted?

There was minor bullying and name calling in my school ... but it wasn't anything that would throw me in a state of depression. You go through some pretty awful stuff at school ... but you shake it off(worst case scenario is the movie rage ).

Extreme cases of bullying are delt with by the office here ... aren't you offered any help from the administration?
Read my posts.
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Old 2004-10-18, 15:45   Link #86
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Such things do not work in Japan.

We all know it is a big problem. We don't do anything about it. Why? Because, we have other "big issues" (meaning: useless crap) to worry about. We selfishly assume this matter will resolve on its own, when in fact, is just a burgeoning and ticking time bomb.

So let’s look at the reality about groups who actually do try to take a stand.

Some parent fed up with all this ijime problem takes a stand and creates a support group for activists and creates a lobby against ijime. A liberal party in Parliament takes up the issue for their cause against the leading majority party.

Both sides debate the issue on a popular political show (something like “Meet the Press” and “Larry King Live” in the States)

Political parties involved:

Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) – the majority party of Parliament that had controlled the Japanese government since 1955 (with a minor lapse in the mid 1990s). They lead the conservative coalition along with the Komeito and the Liberal League.

Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ) – the largest minority party. They lead the liberal opposition along with the Japanese Communist Party (JCP), the Social-Democrats (SDP), and the Mushozoku-ha (Independents).

DPJ: “Ijime is a burgeoning problem that we face in our nation’s schools today. We knew about this all this time, but we’ve kept it under the rug because of the conservatives not caring about our nation’s childrens. All they cared was nurturing corporate zombies in our schools by promoting over-excessive excellence while being blind to our childrens’ mental and social health.”

LDP: “Once again, the DJP is attacking what we have achieved over the past fifty years. We are well aware of the problems that our children are facing. We have reduced schools from six days a week to five. We’ve set up after school programs and psychological call centres modeled after Germany. We’ve set national standards and protocols for school administrators to be more aware of students’ cry for help. We’ve spent trillions of yen for the well being of our nations’ schools and children. Only the liberals proclaim that what we have spent is not enough.”

[etc...]

LDP: “What you are saying is dangerous, my friend. We, of course do not want to go that extreme – we are a democratic country that allows freedom of speech. All we want to know is that the truth is told as it was by having an independent historical council review those books.”

DJP: “Independent councils! Ha! Let me give you the political affiliates of those so-called ‘independent councils’ ”

Moderator: “Representatives of both parties, I need you to stay on topic. The issue here was about ijime.”

LDP: “Sorry, I got carried away.”
DPJ: “It won’t happen again.”

[exchange happens three times over the hour long debate]


Do you see where this is going? Nowhere. They are doing the same thing they are babbling about in Parliament. It’s pointless and useless. And you expect us citizens to give a shit about our country with how our elected representatives act in both Houses?
It's somewhat reassuring to know that this sort of political BS isn't limited to the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
In the end, the conclusion is:

LDP: “What the DPJ is asking is, therefore, we increase more awareness to our nation’s school. Unfortunately, that means we need to raise taxes, which are high as it is to support such causes. Our economic situation right now cannot afford us to raise taxes.” (read: “You want something, we need to take more money out of your pockets. We know all you citizens have your own problems with finances, so do you really want the government to steal more money out of you? Vote conservative. Liberalism sucks.”)
Yeah, that sounds about right. The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Old 2004-10-18, 15:52   Link #87
Lexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Read my posts.
Yes I did ... and I am amazed ... I find it hard to believe that something like that would even happen. Let's say she doesn't do what they tell her to do, refuses to sleep with random dirty men, and they beat her up ... then she goes to school and people always wonder what happend ... she tells the truth and they just let those girls go?

my opinion of japan went down from an 80 to around 5.
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Old 2004-10-18, 16:25   Link #88
7thMethuselah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Too bad Japanese people have tons of "problems" in their minds:

A. Some group of bitches did this to my little daughter...man I want to kill them with my golf club

B. ....but wait a minute, I'm not that stupid. What will happen? I mean the consequences... I could go to jail, I can lose my job, who is going to pay the mortgage, what would the neighbors think...etc...
That kinda stuff happened here and well but public opinion handled it completely different

1. kid gets molestated at school
2. daddy buys a baseballbat, caughts the bullied redhanded, beats the shit outta them
3. daddy gets sent to court and risks heavy sentence
4. public outrage : daddy is a hero, not a criminal
5. daddy gets light sentence (or none at all), it was "self-defense"

Yup our country is alot more right wing these days, one of the few things good with it.

While in our country there isn't a problem with minors prostituting themselves, there are alot of pedophiles kidnapping, raping and murdering children. Many parents are afraid to let their kids out at night ever since alot of these cases have surfaced, the "Dutroux" case is the most famous one ...
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Old 2004-10-18, 16:41   Link #89
gunner
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well . im new , dont have any post yet. but the this topic call's to me., well i dont see the real problem whit bullying, is not that i havent encounter a bullying guy .. is just that i realy don give a shit about it .. probably im wrong , but after trying something and seeing that i wont stop .. i just didnt give a shit anymore , i have seriously thougth on suicide but, i dont think its becoz its the easy way out , or coz nobody love'z me , its more about disapointment , well after a couple of years standing alone , i just find my self whitout dreams. what's the american dream??? really .. i just dont get it , i see many people trying to achive it, but make's me think if its the right dream for all , i heard one person say : life is for living ...
wonder if living means taking , coz that's basicly what i see in the american dream the more you try to get something the more you sufer , but people are always trying to get more soo .. what's the point ? it sickens me to think that my only goal in life is to pass my seed for the future.. exist no matter what.. well ... i think any day im ready to go , just haven't encounterd the thing that make's a man really wana exist. dont know if its a girl, an achivment ( could be a girl ) or love ( also girl )
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Old 2004-10-18, 16:51   Link #90
kj1980
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Perhaps this thread is sending out the wrong message. The post that I originally made was on "What is the most revolting anime you have ever seen."

For some reason, this was moved to this thread with the title "Japan and Suicide."

I propose that this thread change its title to "The reality of Japan."
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Old 2004-10-18, 17:00   Link #91
hooliganj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Yellow Dwarf
I suppose that, us being nerds (well if you're posting on an internet message board about anime, you gotta be a nerd one way or the other j/k), we probably have all contemplated suicide at some point.
Having finally gone and read this whole thread, this comment leaped out at me.

I'm a nerd, no doubt about it, but I have never once in my entire life even remotely considered killing myself. There's just too much to do. I want to get my degree (even if it doesn't get me a job, at least I know all the work that went into it), I want to travel, and I want to have a kid (just one, though). I also want to run for political office someday (congressman, not president), and I would love to hunt down every single person who signed the PNAC declaration and punch them right in the face for being the complete bastards that they are.

But I digress. The point is, there is a lot I want to do in my life, and even if some of those goals and dreams are unrealistic or become unattainable, suicide would mean that I gave them all up. It would also mean throwing away all of the hard work and effort thatI put into my life, as well as all the hard work of my parents.

I also believe that there is no such thing as a problem without a solution, and killing yourself because of too many problems, be they fiscal, familial, social (like bullying) or whatever, only says that you weren't willing to put in the effort required to reach a solution. Sometimes it's incredibly hard, and it might take a lifetime to overcome an especially big obstacle, but there is always a better way.
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Old 2004-10-18, 17:43   Link #92
Judo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Perhaps this thread is sending out the wrong message. The post that I originally made was on "What is the most revolting anime you have ever seen."

For some reason, this was moved to this thread with the title "Japan and Suicide."

I propose that this thread change its title to "The reality of Japan."

Yeah, I think so too since you talked about alot of things not just suicide...

Anyways, I'm somewhat shocked(5th graders having sex )...and all I can say right now is...that I'm gratefull that nothing like that ever happend to me, or to anyone I know...
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Old 2004-10-18, 19:21   Link #93
The Yellow Dwarf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooliganj
Having finally gone and read this whole thread, this comment leaped out at me.
I'm sorry it leaped out at you...I'll make sure the next one comes out with more elegance and grace. (If I don't put a foot in my mouth everytime I post I wouldn't be me anymore.)

Well...I think that there's obviously a comparison of of values when somebody decides to his/her own life. It is no small matter. But I think that, deep down, if anybody thinks that he/she has anything to gain - anything at all - from living, they will continue to live. But sometimes, especially in a society with a fully saturated job market like Japan - where college grads can't get even a passable job, and start drifting in society for a good job that will never come about, and no real solutions (what can you do if there are just way too many people competing with you, if not turning to crime?) at all, I doubt they will still carry on the same "dream" that they had when they were young. If somebody is going to kill himself, then he must be thinking that it is better to die than to live (well, unless that person has some sort of serious mental disorder, but I doubt that is what we are talking about).

I think there is also a definite problem in the mental health of kids growing up in those densely populated cities. When normal social bonding between children is restricted by relationships between adults, hindered by distance, social standing, etc. etc., and adding in a healthy amount of only-child-syndrome, they are often more solitary and much less resilient in the face of hardship. But even with all that said, who is the one with a mental problem in the case of bullying? The bully who can't stop hurting others, or the victim who can't stop being hurt?

Both. But more than the other, the bully is the one with the initiative, he is the one who starts it all. Why do people, and by no means a small fraction of the population, have the profound liking for inflicting psychological pain on others? There's definitely some cultural/social issue at work here; how the children are being raised, what type of environment and what type of socialization they experienced, etc. Simply having a report system is not going to help the situation. People need to dig down to the root and pardon me for using this expression, "start a revolution" and topple the social habits that are contributing to the rise of adolescent apathy and violence. We can't arrest all the bullies and put them in youth detention centers, and we can't have the police responding to every least but of mistreatment on some student or the other (it's just an impossible task). The true countermeasure (although infinitely difficult if not impossible to achieve), is to create a culture where bullying is not encouraged or considered a social norm. Bullying will always exist, but it shouldn't be as rampant as it is in Japan and in the U.S. (and perhaps some other countries as well).

Well...I guess the whole pseudo-philosophical crap spouted in anime like MADLAX may have had some allegorical meaning in the school buildings of Japan, maybe bullying really is a manifestation of humans' true nature. We should all go schizophrenic and kill the bullies before splitting into two people and have an anime written about us... All the meaningless things that we do, and throw out of our minds after graduation is just to keep us amused and not thinking about death and all that... Too bad there isn't an Arcueid for everyone of us... Or maybe we should all just wake up and think "my body moves! It's such a miracle" like Rico from Gunslinger Girl (anime ver.) and that'll work. But I guess some of us are just sleeping in the cinders waiting for our fairy godmothers and the prince with the glass shoes... Oh, I'm still waiting for my Satou Sei-sama to take me far far away.
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Old 2004-10-18, 20:50   Link #94
Michelle Alchemy
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I remembered when these stupid girls tried to bully me but didn't know me. They

thought I was someone they could pick on for fun. I didn't take any of their crap

and ended up beating the the living hell out of all three of them. It was kinda

funny since I stripped the the three of them in front of the whole school. My friend

ended up recording the whole thing. The b****s eventually left the school.
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Old 2004-10-18, 22:00   Link #95
sOnJoOL
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god! this is fricking horrible.
when im good enough, imma draw a manga about a guy helping people that gets bullied. i mean seriously, how did the world become soooo rotten??
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Old 2004-10-18, 22:08   Link #96
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sOnJoOL
god! this is fricking horrible.
when im good enough, imma draw a manga about a guy helping people that gets bullied. i mean seriously, how did the world become soooo rotten??
I blame it all on sex...at least 70% of the problems in the world stem from sex or anything related to it (family, children, fame, self-esteem, appearance, etc)
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Old 2004-10-18, 22:16   Link #97
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kj1980
Such things do not work in Japan.
-snip-
That sounds kind of miserable. I really can't fathom how anything gets done in your society, then. If what you say is true, then I predict Japan to take a nosedive in the near future.
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Old 2004-10-18, 22:42   Link #98
sarcasteak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killermonk
That sounds kind of miserable. I really can't fathom how anything gets done in your society, then. If what you say is true, then I predict Japan to take a nosedive in the near future.
It's already in progress.



...not that American and their higher-than-thou moral self-rigtheous intolerant overly religious society is that much better, really.
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Old 2004-10-18, 22:47   Link #99
mantidor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killermonk
That sounds kind of miserable. I really can't fathom how anything gets done in your society, then. If what you say is true, then I predict Japan to take a nosedive in the near future.
I agree, thats the really worrying part, not the bullying or the suicides themselves, since Im sure they happen pretty much everywhere in the world, but the stance of japanese society, even kj1980 himself has the same attitude of "theres nothing we can do", I picture this as millions and millions of japanese people that think the same but dont do anything about it, isnt that just absurd? its like all the passengers of a ship seeing how the ship is sinking slowly but none of them do anything, they just stare at the mess without noticing that working together they can save themselves, is really sad.
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Old 2004-10-18, 23:19   Link #100
sOnJoOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
I blame it all on sex...at least 70% of the problems in the world stem from sex or anything related to it (family, children, fame, self-esteem, appearance, etc)
damn its the fricking lust of people who cant keep their
hands and tentacles to their selves.
...... this is just wrong. something must be done.
i mean do these wrong-do-ers feel nothing if they have killed someone?
(retorical question)
is there anything that can be done???
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